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[Twilight Imperium] The Dawn of a New Age - GAME OVER, PAX MENTAKIA

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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Damn no updates.

    Darian how do you feel about a trade agreement? I am pretty sure that we are about equally matched and in a head to head fight we will prolly just cripple ourselves for neighbors to take over. Do you have any problem with my fleet occupying 2-6?

    Ryadic and Zellphor:
    Do you want to make a 1 for 1 trade agreement as well, since we are pretty far away?

    Spork and Pil:
    I will still go for one of your 2 for 1 trade agreements if you wish to pursue this course. I would also like to hear what you all have to say about what I commented about with Saudor.

    Orange Soda on
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    HermenegildeHermenegilde Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hopefully, one of them rich people at the bottom will attack the others.

    Hermenegilde on
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    SpectralSporkSpectralSpork Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bleh, was at work all morning.

    Darian/GrimmyTOA: So, interested in a little scratch our back, scratch yours?

    Orange Soda: I'm really not buying that. Still looks like you've been setting up to smack us since the game started and you've already admitted you were gonna pull that with Darian/GrimmyTOA if they hadn't been militaristic.

    Really piL's call for the day though, if our turn comes up, I'm gonna be busy with writing papers, so eh.

    SpectralSpork on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    For a few specific points OS, you said that you expected us to place our planes earlier if we had something better, but if we had placed our better planet earlier, it would be where saudor is right now, and we would be fighting over that right now instead. Though numerically unfair, strategically, giving you Saudor puts you two hexes from our homebase, and opens up two fronts to you. Already we have to exceed you ship-for-ship to defend a system from you; with you having access to two of our systems, we'd need to exceed you ship-for-ship in two hexes, plus deal with the possibility of you slipping past our forces straight into our home system.

    If you weren't playing a war race, making constant obvious threats earlier, and doing what was done during setup, it would be easier to buy the numerical position, but you're basically asking us to hand you a knife and turn our backs in the name of fairness.

    piL on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hopefully, one of them rich people at the bottom will attack the others.

    Well let's talk about planets for a second. I already stated my case for Saudor, but I might as well talk about planet distribution.

    If every claims the 3 planets closest to their home words let's see how the resources work out.

    Naalu takes Quann, Lodor, Arinam/Meer, Home World

    9 Resources, 11 influence, total points 20

    Jol-Nar takes Wellon, Centauri/Gral, Verfut II (darian would have to give this up pretty much), Home World

    8 Resources, 11 influence, total points 19

    Mentak takes Bereg/Lirta IV, Thibah, Abyz/Fria, Home World

    15 Resources, 6 Influence, total points 21

    L1Z1X takes New Albion/Starpoint, Dal Bootha/XXehan, Saudor, Home

    12 Resources, 7 Influence, total points 19

    Federation of Sol takes Tar'Mann, Arnor/Lor, Coorneeq/Resculon, Home

    11 Resources, 8 Influence, total points 19

    Letnev takes Qucen'n/Rarron, Mehar Xull, Mellon/Zohbat, Home

    7 Resources, 12 Influence, total points 19

    As you can see, because of how important influence is in this game (objectives, agendas, etc), it should be considered just as valuable as resources.

    So Naalu, you are actually sitting at second place if every only takes 3 planets each. In fact if everyone takes 3 planets each, the distribution of points is very close for everyone.

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    piL wrote: »
    ....

    Again if you are worried about me attacking you, then make a trade agreement with me. There is one 3 available, and three 2's of which you control two of the 2's. I would be a fool to look lightly on one of the most powerful trade agreements in this game. Look I'm not going to let you hold Saudor. End of story. If it's war you want, then it's war you will get. If you proceed down this path, you just open up the easy possibility for Letnev to come creeping in from the other side.

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If you insist you deserve 4 systems while we only get 2, trust me that will not seem like you care at all if the side of our deal is fair, and we will treat you accordingly.

    Orange Soda on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Letnev hasn't been trying to intimidate us the entire game. There's the possibility they're being sly; it's hard to assume you're being anything but.

    Hell, if the three planet thing is fairness for everybody (well, other than you in this case), we'll leave Tarr'mann empty.

    piL on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We've been talking, however, so give us a bit to consider the math you've listed above.

    piL on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Would you be open to making a deal over Saudor involving how large your fleet there can be? Our problem is we're worried about having a navy sitting on our doorstep. If we have a peaceful agreement over Saudor, that might not need to happen.

    piL on
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    HermenegildeHermenegilde Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hopefully, one of them rich people at the bottom will attack the others.

    Well let's talk about planets for a second. I already stated my case for Saudor, but I might as well talk about planet distribution.

    If every claims the 3 planets closest to their home words let's see how the resources work out.

    Naalu takes Quann, Lodor, Arinam/Meer, Home World

    9 Resources, 11 influence, total points 20

    Jol-Nar takes Wellon, Centauri/Gral, Verfut II (darian would have to give this up pretty much), Home World

    8 Resources, 11 influence, total points 19

    Mentak takes Bereg/Lirta IV, Thibah, Abyz/Fria, Home World

    15 Resources, 6 Influence, total points 21

    L1Z1X takes New Albion/Starpoint, Dal Bootha/XXehan, Saudor, Home

    12 Resources, 7 Influence, total points 19

    Federation of Sol takes Tar'Mann, Arnor/Lor, Coorneeq/Resculon, Home

    11 Resources, 8 Influence, total points 19

    Letnev takes Qucen'n/Rarron, Mehar Xull, Mellon/Zohbat, Home

    7 Resources, 12 Influence, total points 19

    As you can see, because of how important influence is in this game (objectives, agendas, etc), it should be considered just as valuable as resources.

    So Naalu, you are actually sitting at second place if every only takes 3 planets each. In fact if everyone takes 3 planets each, the distribution of points is very close for everyone.


    Maybe. In an ideal world... I'd be surprised if it actually comes down this way.
    Is 9-11 worth as much as 15-5 ? I've never played so the only use I see for influence are Leadership and Diplomacy and Votes. Judging from mine, votes are pretty underwhelming. While resources are used for units and techs.

    Add to that the fact that you've already threatened your neighbor to give you an advantageous trade. I'm thinking that you are downplaying the value of resources.

    Hermenegilde on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm also a little naieve on how influence plays in this edition. In prior editions, you needed 30 resources, 30 influence to win, no matter what (values were generally a little higher too though). You had to achieve a certain amount to progress during the victory chart. Additionally, political cards were played every turn, and a law was voted in every round. Play order was determined by influence. I'm not sure if the two are equally equatable in this edition. I'm not saying they're not; I just have no idea.

    piL on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    There are a lot of influence based public objectives. Also there are game changing Political agendas that can be passed.

    One game I invaded mecantol rex to get an objective that was "I have controlled mecantol rex the entire turn", then with overwhelming influence, I single handedly passed a political agenda that was "for the rest of the game no one can invade mecantol rex" (I waited until most players had exhausted all their planets). There was a close call a little bit later when someone tried to local unrest mecatol (i had stupidly left only 1 gf there), but I sabotaged it so all was well.

    Do not underestimate the power of influence in this game.

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    piL wrote: »
    Would you be open to making a deal over Saudor involving how large your fleet there can be? Our problem is we're worried about having a navy sitting on our doorstep. If we have a peaceful agreement over Saudor, that might not need to happen.

    I will not make any deal with you regarding fleet size unless we have a trade agreement. If you accept our 2-1 trade agreement I am willing to have a 3-4 ship (as if I only had a fleet supply of 3 or 4) limit on the system.

    Orange Soda on
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    HermenegildeHermenegilde Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm just not sure it's going to protect me from Warsuns and dreadnoughts...
    I agree that I'm not really at risk of invasion right now. But I am a bit concerned about the 2 military races with lots of resources.

    Hermenegilde on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    There is one political card I get hit with one time that was pretty brutal. I think it was everyone destroys down to 1 dreadknot when I had all 5 on the board.

    Orange Soda on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We're willing to do the trade agreement, and have you limit your fleet size in the area (we like three better than four obviously). One more thing; if you get extended range PDSs, we'd rather you didn't have those in a position to fire at half our systems. If you can't shoot into systems around you, we don't see a problem with you keeping PDSes on Sardor, but if you end up teching up and taking shots at our ships, you'd understand if we had a problem with that, yes?

    piL on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Found it:
    Arms Reduction
    For: Each player must destroy all but two of his Dreadnoughts and all but four of his Cruisers (all other ship types are unaffected)
    Against: Players must exhaust their planets that provide a red technology credit.

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    piL wrote: »
    We're willing to do the trade agreement, and have you limit your fleet size in the area (we like three better than four obviously). One more thing; if you get extended range PDSs, we'd rather you didn't have those in a position to fire at half our systems. If you can't shoot into systems around you, we don't see a problem with you keeping PDSes on Sardor, but if you end up teching up and taking shots at our ships, you'd understand if we had a problem with that, yes?

    Yeah I do not plan to put PDS on Saudor. They are going to stay in the New Albion/Starpoint System. I will be getting Deep Space Cannon next, so if you ever try to invade Saudor expect a large barrage of PDS Fire. I accept the terms of this treaty, allowing for the possibility of having four ships there, but I will do my best to make you feel comfortable, so if you don't like the fleet that is sitting there, let me know and I can move ships out to make you feel better.

    Orange Soda on
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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I will roll the dice.

    Rend on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sounds good to me.

    piL on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm just not sure it's going to protect me from Warsuns and dreadnoughts...
    I agree that I'm not really at risk of invasion right now. But I am a bit concerned about the 2 military races with lots of resources.

    Found another one that would help.

    Unconventional Weapons
    For: All Dreadnoughts and War Suns receive -2 on all combat rolls.
    Against: All players must choose and exhaust one of their planets for each Dreadnought and War Sun they have in play, if able

    basically the point I am making is that, through influence you are able to not only qualify for public objectives (which you need to win), but can pretty much find a political card tailor made to solve whatever problem you are currently facing.

    There are tons of cards involving technology, resources management, invasion policy, forced treaties at the cost of 1 VP for breaking it, action card restrictions or buffs, seriously... you think of something... there is prolly a political card about it.

    Orange Soda on
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    HermenegildeHermenegilde Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ah maybe its just mine that suck then. I fully intend to get rid of both of them :(.

    Hermenegilde on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I hinted at this card either earlier in the thread or in the other thread, but you need to see the awesomeness of this card:

    Wormhole Research:
    For:
    Roll a die. On a result of 1-3, every ship in a wormhole system is destroyed. On a 4-7, each player controlling at least one wormhole gains 2 trade goods. On an 8-10, each player that voted for this agenda gains one blue Technology advance (must have the prerequisites)/

    Against:
    Wormholes may not be used for the remainder of this game round.

    So it passed and we were playing with the Wormhole Nexus which is basically a system tile that is off the board containing both Alpha and Beta wormholes (really fucking fun piece to play with), and I was massing my fleet up there. Of course I rolled a 1-3, so I lost ALL my ships on that system.

    In total it was 46 resources (i remember that number because of how devastating it was to me) worth of ships. Good times :-)

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ah maybe its just mine that suck then. I fully intend to get rid of both of them :(.
    Oh don't get me wrong. There are plenty of cards in there that may not help you at all, but I'm sure you could see how in a specific situation they could be used strategically by another player for one reason or another. There is also an action card that let's you search through the political deck for any card you want, so you could see how in that situation, you can literally pick out whatever political agenda is PERFECT for the situation.

    Orange Soda on
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    DarianDarian Yellow Wizard The PitRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Plus you're under-estimating the importance of having influence to spend on Leadership. Up to three extra command counters per turn is nothing to sneeze at.

    Darian on
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    HermenegildeHermenegilde Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I hinted at this card either earlier in the thread or in the other thread, but you need to see the awesomeness of this card:

    Wormhole Research:
    For:
    Roll a die. On a result of 1-3, every ship in a snakehole system is destroyed. On a 4-7, each player controlling at least one snakehole gains 2 trade goods. On an 8-10, each player that voted for this agenda gains one blue Technology advance (must have the prerequisites)/

    Against:
    Snakeholes may not be used for the remainder of this game round.

    So it passed and we were playing with the Snakehole Nexus which is basically a system tile that is off the board containing both Alpha and Beta Snakeholes (really fucking fun piece to play with), and I was massing my fleet up there. Of course I rolled a 1-3, so I lost ALL my ships on that system.

    In total it was 46 resources (i remember that number because of how devastating it was to me) worth of ships. Good times :-)

    That card could really hurt me.
    Well I'll see if I can make an agreement with Jol-Naar...

    I guess team Barony isn't around.

    Hermenegilde on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Darian wrote: »
    Plus you're under-estimating the importance of having influence to spend on Leadership. Up to three extra command counters per turn is nothing to sneeze at.

    oh yeah. I knew I was forgetting something.

    Orange Soda on
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    DarianDarian Yellow Wizard The PitRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    OS: I believe we will be willing to enter into a trade agreement with you.

    On the matter of 2-6, while we do not have any need to control that system ourselves at that time, we also would not be comfortable with you massing ships so close to our borders. If you want to put a small fleet (1-2 ships that are not dreadnoughts) in that location for security, that would not be taken as an act of aggression.

    Darian on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We agree to have one trade agreement with Mindnet. Our other one will be offered to Letnev, if they choose to accept it.

    piL on
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Address to the people of the Federation

    The screen opens to a panning shot aboard the bridge of the FSN General Lee, a carrier currently in transit to restore order to the Lor system. Captain Lucas Duke and First Mate Beauregard Duke, heroes during the Revolution of Sol, known for leading a capture and co-command of a carrier featured prominently in a number of battles, stand to the side as Commander Arthur Pil once again dominates the screen.

    "People of the Federation," he says, as charismatic as ever, the scar down his cheek flexing with every spoken word, "We understand that the last few days have been taxing on many of you. Government has crumbled, looting become common, and that's not even to mention the stress our border-mates have been suffering under threat of war with the machines that share our border."

    "We still remember the horrific reign of terror humanity suffered two centuries ago at the hands of our own rampant AI, but the L1Z1X are not the same, not so bent on the end of all other life in the galaxy. They have been willing to cooperate. Tensions have been high as the threat of war looms; but people of the Federation, worry not. A truce has been struck with the Mindnet, and the people have been allowed respite after thirty-years rebellion."

    "The cost of this truce is occupation of one of our furthest-most productive colonies, Saudor. Magistrate Kime will oversee the evacuation of the planet, while homes have been secured for its people aboard space stations and moons in Sol, along with their selection of potential colonies in our other systems. As a benefit, we should soon expect finely wrought goods from L1V1X's factories in Terran space soon."

    "Those others of you, who do not share a border with the Mind Net, we thank you for your patience. Right now, marines are on their way to secure your colonies, liberate you from Royalist hold-outs, and induct you into the Federation we all fought so hard to achieve. Delegate Richard Sooga is on his way to replace the emperor's delegates to the senate on Mecatol Rex, as per the surrender agreement."

    "People of the Federation, be patient, and soon we shall overcome our recent adversity and a golden age of humanity can flourish in a Federation that considers all of its members citizens. Godspeed. Commander Pil Out."

    piL on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Orange Soda paced up and down the bridge of the Flagship T-143a. He was waiting to hear word from the delegates sent to the Federation of Sol and the Mentak Coalition regarding claims to space. While a master tactician in battle, Orange Soda's wisdom ran deeper than that. Augmented with the knowledge of thousands of generations of leaders he decided the best course of action was that of defense.

    ZRAM, chief diplomat of the L1ZiX had been dispatched to the system of Tar'Mann to meet with a delegate from Sol. Orange Soda had hand picked him because if anyone would be able to find an amiable solution to the tension over the Saudor system, it would be him. ZRAM and Orange Soda had been childhood friends once, so long ago. Even though the former life of both of them didn't matter, they still maintained a close friendship over the years. ZRAM was 5 of 37 in their youth control group, but his forte lay with the intrigue of politics rather than the conquest of the military.

    Agent A6 was sent to make an agreement with the Mentak. The pirate nation would never respect the delegate sent if it was a mere diplomat, but and Agent (especially a notorious L1Z1X agent) would command enough respect to gain an audience with one of the Table of Captains. A6 was scheduled to meet with Captain Suffi in the empty system classified by the L1Z1X as Sector-12.

    All that Orange Soda could do now was wait. The idea of working together, so that Sol, Mentak, and the L1Z1X could all prosper instead of tearing each other down, sat well with Orange Soda. There has been so much battle already. He figured no one else need die. But god help them if they tried to double cross a L1Z1X.



    "S-43e requesting permission to board"
    "This is T-143a. You are cleared to dock in Hanger 43. Proceed to the bridge immediately upon arrival."
    SRAM docked the cruiser and made his way to the bridge.
    Orange Soda: "Well? How did the negotiations go"
    SRAM:"As you can see from how long it took to make it back to the fleet, the negotiations were trying, but we eventually reached a mutual understanding."
    Orange Soda: "I knew you would, SRAM you are an asset to the L1Z1X. What are the terms"
    SRAM:"They agree to let us control Saudor, have agreed to open the trade routes, but require a limitation on the number of warships orbiting Saudor. They also request that we do not place any planetary defense on Saudor.
    Orange Soda:"Do they think we are fools? Why wouldn't we defend our planet?"
    SRAM:"They know we are researching increased range for our cannons. I'm not sure how they know exactly, but it doesn't really matter. Since they know that bit of information there was no need for me to insist we should be allowed to build planetary defense there."
    Orange Soda:"Very well. I see no problem with any of these terms. Set them into motion."
    SRAM exits the room.

    Orange Soda: "Send me 1485""
    Assistant: "Yes Sir!"

    1485 Enters the room.

    Orange Soda: "Terms have been reached with both the Sol and the Mentak. Prepare Carrier R-3 for a Hohmann Transfer to New Albion. It should reach perigee of Null in approximately 48 hours. Ready the battalions, fighters, and planetary defense. If we can't defend Saudor directly we will need to keep it in range for defensive fire. Execute Defensive Protocol 34-a-1z12."
    1465: "As you command."

    Orange Soda on
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    ZellpherZellpher Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Activate sector 3-10
    Move carrier, dreadnought, and 2 ground force from Arc Prime
    Land 1 ground force on Zohbat and other on Mellon


    I intend to keep our agreement about the snakeholes, hermenegilde. I will even concede to not passing through the beta.

    Zellpher on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Spork/Pil's turn.

    Orange Soda on
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    SpectralSporkSpectralSpork Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    My turn eh? By the word of the manly man piL!

    Strategic Action- Activate Diplomacy- Primary Ability B

    Annex Tar'Mann

    SpectralSpork on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Pass

    Orange Soda on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    (everyone should now say whether or not they are Play or Pass for the secondary of Diplomacy, which is to spend a CC from strategy and 3 influence to annex a planet.)

    Orange Soda on
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    crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Most likely passing. Just checking real quick.

    EDIT: Yeah, Pass.

    crimsoncoyote on
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    Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    SpectralSpork + piL - Sol - Diplomacy Primary
    Hermenegilde and Darklyre - Naalu -
    CrimsonCoyote - Jol-Nar - Pass
    GrimmyTOA + Darian - Mentak -
    Orange Soda - L1Z1X - Pass
    Ryadic + Zellpher - Letnev -

    Orange Soda on
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    DarianDarian Yellow Wizard The PitRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    SpectralSpork + piL - Sol - Diplomacy Primary
    Hermenegilde and Darklyre - Naalu -
    CrimsonCoyote - Jol-Nar - Pass
    GrimmyTOA + Darian - Mentak - Pass
    Orange Soda - L1Z1X - Pass
    Ryadic + Zellpher - Letnev -

    Naale could exhaust their 0-2 and pay one trade good (discard a politics card) for it. I doubt Letnev want to, however.

    Btww, Rend, a house rule that we played with was to just give everyone a trade good each time they got a politics card. It gives the benefit of being able to turn the card into stuff while still letting people hold onto cards to be able to play them for the assembly. Worth considering for your home games/if we decide to try this again.

    Darian on
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