So...the banjo.

Deadfall

As a teacher, I have two months off starting in June, and well, as much as I'd like to spend that time playing video games, I'd like to learn something new.

For some reason, I have become incredibly interested in learning the banjo. I don't know why. I'm not particularly fond of bluegrass, but I'm a huge Flogging Molly/Pogues/Tossers fan, so maybe that's it. Plus, I think the banjo sounds interesting and just plain looks fun to play.

Does anybody have any experience in it? Is it particularly difficult to learn compared to the guitar? I don't play the guitar, if that helps, though I picked it up pretty quick in 7th grade Basic Music class. What about varying qualities? Guitarcenter.com lists banjos anywhere from $300 to $50,000 (!). Are banjos worth purchasing used or is it worth it to buy a (relatively) cheap new one? I think I could probably find a used one around here if I looked hard enough.

Can you self-learn through books/DVDs or are teachers the way to go? It doesn't seem like a widely-taught instrument, but I could be wrong.

Help me get my hoe-down on.

Jives

My banjo was bought from a junk yard then refitted and it sounds fine, so it seems you can get a good sounding one pretty cheap. Playing the banjo is no more or less difficult than guitar in my experience, although its more vital to have finger picking down

rocketshipready

I found banjo to be infinitely easier to learn than guitar, but then again I had been playing guitar for a few years so I already had a pretty good understanding of theory. In terms of books, though, Pete Seeger published a really great beginners banjo book, aptly titled How To Play the Five String Banjo. It's a pretty good starting point.

EggyToast

Banjo typically always sounds, well, like a banjo. A few key movies/songs have pegged it as having a particular "use," and if you're looking to fill that use there are many books/videos to help out.

If you're looking to play a banjo outside of bluegrass, though, you essentially have to do it yourself.

Thankfully, banjo is not really a chord instrument. Of course you can play chords, but its strength is in melodies. And to do that well, you really just need to spend some time learning the fretboard.

Another instrument that might whet your whistle is the mandolin. There's tons of mandolin music, as not only is there bluegrass music but essentially every violin/fiddle tune can work on the mandolin, since the tuning is identical. Which brings me to my other point about the banjo -- the tuning is essentially in fourths, like a guitar, so you could at least start off with some guitar music. The basic instructions would match up. Make sure you know the difference between a 4 string and 5 string, and whether you want a shorter/longer neck.

Deadfall

Excellent, I'll have to look for that book.

And yeah, as far as what I want to play, I really don't know. Like I said, I don't even really like bluegrass. It's the Irish/folk/punk stuff I love. Which it sounds like I'll have to kind of pick up on my own. I think I'll have to just pick a few up and see if I like a longer or shorter neck, and talk to some guys about strings because I honestly don't know any better between 4 or 5.

And the mandolin, eh? I'll have to do some looking around because I like that sound, too.

I have always had a case of Futurama's "Stupid Fingers." But I'm pretty confident I can at least try to have fun with an instrument.

rocketshipready

The standard 5-string is tuned to an open G chord, so it's pretty difficult to make it sound bad. A 4-string (tenor banjo) is tuned in fifths, like the mandolin/violin, but a fifth lower (CGDA instead of GDAE). It's also pretty easy to play, and I'm pretty sure it's used in Irish folk music moreso than the 5-string, although both sound the same and would work out fine.

If you get a friend to play mandolin, then you probably have the best sounding musical combination ever, just a head's up.

EggyToast

You could also look into a bouzouki, as well. If you're interested in some alternative string instruments, take a look at http://mandolincafe.com as they have a good forum for essentially everything but banjo/guitar.

The banjo, of course, sounds the way it does because of the resonator cavity. You can find a fine banjo for getting started for relatively cheap, and then move to another instrument (or multiple instruments) if they suit your fancy with little trouble.

The fingers thing is simply a cause of you never playing an instrument before. If you practice, and get through the stupid fingers phase, you'll be progressing pretty quickly after that. I personally think there are few people who are unable to play an instrument. Plenty who aren't interested in practicing, of course, but playing competently is pretty easy in the scheme of things. Especially anything with frets.

I have a friend who picked up a banjo for like $100 from musiciansfriend.com when they had a closeout; it's pretty basic but does the job (sounds like a banjo). He hadn't learned how to play it last time I saw him, but like rocket says, since it's tuned to an open G it's pretty easy to sound good.

One thing my wife has used to learn more fiddle tunes and interpretations is to turn to youtube. You should do the same -- there's lots of solo music on youtube, people playing instruments both to show off (or simply report their progress) and as a sample of what an instrument sounds like. Hearing other amateurs is a great way to learn and a nice ego boost when you hear people making mistakes just like any other person. It's also a great way to hear the difference between different kinds of instruments, such as banjo, mandolin, octave mandolin, bouzouki, citterns, etc.

I personally like the smaller scale instruments due to the easier fretting. It feels cramped at the beginning but I feel much less hand strain compared to playing a guitar. And it's not because I can't stretch -- my main instrument is a double bass -- but when it comes to playing horizontally, I like the smaller instruments. I think my next purchase is going to be an octave mandolin.

Khavall

http://www.ezfolk.com/banjo/howtao/#started

When I had to learn banjo in about a month for a gig, I used that book.

My banjo cost $10 without a fingerboard. The fingerboard cost something like $5 on top of it. Of course, I still think I overpayed for it.

One of the great things about banjo is that if you put your finger down across the fretboard and strum minus the high G(which excepting certain circumstances you don't finger), you'll get a major chord. Also, since you aren't supposed to finger the High G, instead of traditional Bar chords you can just finger each of the strings independently for chords. Traditionally I just think in terms of "bars" of C, E, or G, which makes things really easy(x2102, x2012, and x0000 above "bar" respectively). For minor, though it doesn't come up as much, I think in terms of Em(x2002) or Abm(x1101). After that it's pretty much like Guitar... everything works out up and down the neck with the same positions. The hardest part of banjo is the right hand motion, especially if you're frailing because it's, to my knowledge, the only instrument where you strike with the back of your finger to phonate.

Khavall

Shit I wish I could edit.. I got C and E backwards. Stupid banjo.

Oh one other thing.

I would recommend the progression that I did: Learn guitar first. Banjo is one of the least versatile instruments you'll ever play. Banjo has in general one sound, and if you want to make a sound other than that you're screwed. Specifically you have two main sounds: Bluegrass and Frailing/Clawhammer. You can get deeper into it after that, but it'll still always sound like a banjo. Guitar you can do a lot more with. One fun story I have is I was playing in a pit on Guitar/Banjo and I'm offhand frailing and warming up talking to someone and I hit an Em chord for a bit, and the drummer looks over and says "Is that supposed to be minor?".

Guitar is an easy enough instrument to learn and banjo is an easy enough instrument to switch to after guitar, especially with common banjo stuff, which all tends to be focused in home positions with some embellishment, so that the high G still works with everything, especially with proper frailing, where the high G is sort of a constant drone, that it really is a good path to take to get to banjo.

When was asked to learn Banjo for a gig(Specifically I learned for a stage presentation of the South Park movie), I called up my dad, who's played Banjo since college along with guitar, and his entire lesson was "Tuned like the top 4 of a guitar, but Es down to a D. Also you've got a High G that you don't finger. If you're chording, the pattern is the basic frail, which is strike w/ middle finger, strum across, and pick the high G. If you're doing single notes, look up Bluegrass stuff too, but that's pretty straightforwards"

That was it. That was the lesson for banjo from guitar. Between that and looking up a few things online I ended up being a fine enough banjo player to fake my way through most typical banjo music easily within a week, and while the south park score was awful on banjo, by the third tech with the thing I was fine.

Also a bonus is that you then can also play guitar. Also it's the easier way to go than Banjo -> Guitar. For guitar I'd recommend a teacher, but for just getting a feel you can do reasonably well looking for stuff online and just practicing.

Also having and playing Banjo is a surprisingly good conversation opener.

Deadfall

Thanks fellas, that was surprisingly informative. A lot of it looked like Ancient Greek to me, but I'm taking notes and it's a good start.

McViking

If it's Irish stuff you want to play, then you want a tenor (four-string) banjo, not a five-string banjo. It's rare to hear five-string banjo in Irish music, although the Pogues used it some. Mostly it's tenor banjo, played with a pick and copying the fiddle melody. So if that's the sound that turns you on, that's what you want to find. You'll also want to find an Irish jam in your area to crib tunes and style from.

As for picking out a banjo, what I always tell my banjo students is that a cheap instrument doesn't always mean a good value. Sometimes is does, but sometimes it just means a cheap instrument. If you get a banjo that doesn't stay in tune (my first one was horrible in this regard), you'll always sound horrible, you'll hate playing it, and you'll quit. It is possible to find an inexpensive instrument that will play well, but you'll want to enlist the help of someone who knows the difference.

Where are you geographically? The single most under-appreciated thing about learning banjo (and other folk instruments) is that you really do have to connect up with other people who play the style you want to learn. I end up with lots of frustrated students who spend hours learning some version of a tune that they found on the Internet, only to find out that the locals play it completely differently. Point being, don't wait until you think you're good before playing with other people. Get good by playing with other people.

I know very little about tenor banjo, but if you decide you want to give five-string clawhammer banjo a try (check YouTube if you don't know what that means), PM me. I teach clawhammer banjo classes and lessons in Southwest Virginia, and would be happy to send you the PDF handout that I give my beginner class.

Golden Leg

If you're looking to play the banjo, this guy is a great help. He wrote The How and the Tao of Old Time Banjo and A Book of Five Strings, both of which are not just solid resources for learning how to play the banjo, but how to play music.

Just a disclaimer, though. His scene is primarily the frailing strum.

In looking for a banjo, a used Harmony Sovereign banjo is inexpensive and sounds good. No need to blow more than two hundred dollars in buying your first instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo0cy0REMY8

That's what started it all for me.

Deadfall

I'm in the Denver, Colorado area. I'll shoot you a PM, McViking, after work tonight. That might be helpful. If nothing else, it wouldn't hurt.

Harmony Sovereign. I'll keep my eyes open.

Golden Leg

Hah, I live in the Denver, CO area myself. If you want someone to jam/talk with concerning the banjo, feel free to send me a PM.

A few good local music stores I've come across have been the Denver Folklore Center and the Olde Town Pickin' Parlor. Haven't bought anything but strings from them, but the folks running them are helpful.