I like that quote. I think I'm struggling with that whole "throw off the bullshit and do what you want" thing right now.
Yeah. I recommend Tuckers advice, the guy is a clear thinker, and that right there is his main message. He's probably one of the biggest influences on my life, which might seem really stupid if you've just read some of his stories. But the guy gives great advice.
“So other people hurt me? That’s their problem. Their character and actions are not mine. What is done to me is ordained by nature and what I do by my own.â€
“Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions—not outside.â€
“When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own–not of the same blood or birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me.â€
“Show me a man who isn’t a slave; one who is a slave to sex, another to money, another to ambition; all are slaves to hope or fear. I could show you a man who has been a Consul who is a slave to his ‘little old woman’, a millionaire who is the slave of a little girl in domestic service. And there is no state of slavery more disgraceful than one which is self-imposed.â€
“Count your years and you’ll be ashamed to be wanting and working for exactly the same things as you wanted when you were a boy. Of this make sure against your dying day - that your faults die before you do.â€
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
Yeah, my high school experience was pretty mild. Nothing traumatizing, had some good and bad times, mostly was bored, ready to be independent but still stuck living on someone else's schedule.
High School wasn't bad. Neither was it the "Best Years of my Life".
I believe the core idea behind that phrase is that, for some people, High School really was the highlight: no responsibility, parties, perhaps glory through athletic/academic achievements, etc. It's the end of "childhood", the last chance you have in society to be that carefree and irresponsible. Once it's over, some people settle straight into the daily grind, see a few of their friends irregularly, and never do anything more with themselves.
Thus, High School was the "Best Years of their Life".
The opposing viewpoint would be that, after High School, some people went out and found a way to fit into society and shoulder responsibilities but still have fun. Freedom comes with Responsibility, yes, but Freedom grants the opportunity to truly make the most of life.
Saying "If HS were the best years of your life, yur doing it wrong," isn't so much a statement about High School itself; it's a statement on how you've lived your life since.
*edit* and as with everything ELSE in this thread, it obviously does not apply to every person/situation. By their nature, these things are sort of generalizations that hit true for specific people. I'm more commenting on how the discussion is based around High School itself, when I don't believe the point of the phrase has much to do with High School at all.
I guess I can understand this as a reason to dislike the high school years in retrospect for something outside of the actual institution of high school. I don't necessarily agree, but it makes sense.
I mean I could go into excruciating detail about why I found high school awesome, why I didn't find university that awesome outside of classes, and why work is only okay. Of course I could go into detail, it's my life. But it's also boring to anyone else, and not really relevant.
Like I said, I personally find quantifying your life as a pretty ridiculous exercise, and maybe it is only the people who say "high school was the best and nothing else was good, and I have no outside excuse to blame that" that are the ones you dislike. However, I find that many people (and I'm getting that impression from several people here) write off high school as a time in their life they did not enjoyed and simply tolerated until better things came along. And that's fine, but it's not really fair to assume that anyone of value should have had the same experience.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
That's my take as well. I'm not sure how he's coming to the opposite conclusion.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
That's my take as well. I'm not sure how he's coming to the opposite conclusion.
responsibility and morality. both come with age and hamper 'fun'.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
That's my take as well. I'm not sure how he's coming to the opposite conclusion.
responsibility and morality. both come with age and hamper 'fun'.
Only if someone shields you from consequences when you're young, but if that's the case then high school is irrelevant as that someone can continue to shield you from consequences for your entire life if they so choose.
If high school was the best four years of your life, I question whether whatever you decided to do with your life after high school was a good idea.
Liming a VC post about life lessons.
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I don't see it.
Maybe high school was the high point of a 20 or 21 year old's life thus far.
Not a lot wrong with that.
I mean, if we were all 80 years old and looking back then I'd have a problem with the sentiment, but some on. The average age is pretty low here.
I don't follow. I maintain that if the best years of your life are those during which you had training-wheels on your available choices, you've done something wrong. If when you are finally allowed to make your own calls the calls you make result in your life being less good than it was when you weren't allowed to make those calls I question whether you've made particularly good calls.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
I like that quote. I think I'm struggling with that whole "throw off the bullshit and do what you want" thing right now.
Yeah. I recommend Tuckers advice, the guy is a clear thinker, and that right there is his main message. He's probably one of the biggest influences on my life, which might seem really stupid if you've just read some of his stories. But the guy gives great advice.
“So other people hurt me? That’s their problem. Their character and actions are not mine. What is done to me is ordained by nature and what I do by my own.”
“Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions—not outside.”
“When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own–not of the same blood or birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me.”
“Show me a man who isn’t a slave; one who is a slave to sex, another to money, another to ambition; all are slaves to hope or fear. I could show you a man who has been a Consul who is a slave to his ‘little old woman’, a millionaire who is the slave of a little girl in domestic service. And there is no state of slavery more disgraceful than one which is self-imposed.”
“Count your years and you’ll be ashamed to be wanting and working for exactly the same things as you wanted when you were a boy. Of this make sure against your dying day - that your faults die before you do.”
There are things which are within our power, and there are things which are beyond our power. Within our power are opinion, aim, desire, aversion, and, in one word, whatever affairs are our own. Beyond our power are body, property, reputation, office, and, in one word, whatever are not properly our own affairs.
Now, the things within our power are by nature free, unrestricted, unhindered; but those beyond our power are weak, dependent, restricted, alien. Remember, then, that if you attribute freedom to things by nature dependent, and take what belongs to others for you own, you will be hindered, you will lament, you will be disturbed, you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you take for your own only that which is your own, and view what belongs to others just as it really is, then no one will ever compel you, no one will restrict you, you will find fault with no one, you will accuse no one, you will do nothing against your will; no one will hurt you, you will not have an enemy, nor will you suffer any harm.
Life was not about going to the right schools and getting the right jobs just so I could do something I hate in order to accumulate more crap I don't want or need. I don't have to believe the story I was fed about what path to take in life. There is another way. I can be who I want to be, I do the things I want to do and I can live the life I want to live...I just have to stop believing the lies I have been sold, and stop caring what all those people who don't matter think of me, and go out and do it. The only thing stopping me...is me.
. . . .
But that's IS the point--I wasn't trying to be anything or do anything aside from the simple things that made me happy, and writing those stories made me happy. Guess what? A funny thing happens when you cast off all the bullshit everyone dumps on you and just live for yourself and follow your dreams: What it takes to get you there shows up in the finished product. Because no matter what your dream is, no matter how different your passion is from mine, the path we each take to get there is essentially the same.
. . . .
Make no mistake about it: What you do with your with your life is A CHOICE. You don't hear this from your parents or your teachers or your friends, because they never tell you the other option. They tell you that to do what everyone one else is doing, regardless of what you want, they tell you that you have to get a safe job and do the same things as everyone else and be like all of them. And most of you just go along with it, because you don't know that there is another way, you'll just become another sheep like them.
But you don't have to do that. There is another way. You can make the choice to do what I did, to move away from the crowd, to take the path less traveled, to leave the herd and do things your own way. You can do it, but you have to choose to do it.
And don't fucking sit out there and think it can't be done.
I know it can be done, because I did it, and if I can do it, so can you.
If I can live my life the way I want to and be the person I want to be--so can you.
Besides, let me ask you something: What's the alternative? If you don't live the life you want, what life are you living? You're living the same boring, crappy, unsatisfying life everyone else is leading. A life you probably don't want. And if you don't want your life, why are you even getting up in the morning?
From Tucker Max.
And I'm not really a big fan of having "best years". Life is a journey, you only get one shot, so love it, and never stop improving yourself and having a great time. But if you are a "high school was the best period of my life" person, I would probably never want to be your friend.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
buh, high school was a terrible, horrible time for me
college has been a wonderful, meaningful experience
So? For some people it's different. There's nothing wrong with them or their lives, and, if someone's run into the workload hard, then they may have a very different perspective.
I understand the nostalgic sentiment for high school. For most people it's a time when they're gaining a lot more freedom than they had a few years prior and without the responsibilities that will be on them a few years later, and with a lot of time to do what they want.
I see why many look back and say "good times!" I certainly do.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
That's my take as well. I'm not sure how he's coming to the opposite conclusion.
responsibility and morality. both come with age and hamper 'fun'.
Only if someone shields you from consequences when you're young, but if that's the case then high school is irrelevant as that someone can continue to shield you from consequences for your entire life if they so choose.
That's it, exactly. The consequences of actions were rooted in preventative, "life-lesson" context. There were so many nights when I was 17 and 18 at that tail end of high school where a good friend and I would be out late, doing nothing in particular because we could be out and about. These situations, while never the "I got away with heinous crimes," are no longer things I can do in my life now that I work a full-time job and have responsibilities in the home. Merely a difference of how one looks at the world around them, and how one evaluates the choices made. I mean, I understand how absolutely limiting the time period actually is, but I can't remember the last time I felt as if the "world was my oyster."
And anyone who believes that attending undergrad somehow removes those "Training Wheels" is sorely mistaken. Everyone has a different experience, but most liberal arts institutions have a tendency to shield their students from the worst effects of consequence in the name of "preparing you for the real world." Seriously, I worked for a Residential Life department for four years and in that time I saw a lot of actions that would have students arrested, only the real authorities were never involved due to the school's internal, and more lenient, disciplinary proceedings being deemed "enough."
But I know that everyone has a different experience, and while mine in High School was pretty awesome, other peoples' experiences were less so.
buh, high school was a terrible, horrible time for me
college has been a wonderful, meaningful experience
So? For some people it's different. There's nothing wrong with them or their lives, and, if someone's run into the workload hard, then they may have a very different perspective.
And it's pretty much this, in my case post-undergrad. And I'm sure that cloud-school wasn't awesome for Fuzzy.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
That's it, exactly. The consequences of actions were rooted in preventative, "life-lesson" context. There were so many nights when I was 17 and 18 at that tail end of high school where a good friend and I would be out late, doing nothing in particular because we could be out and about. These situations, while never the "I got away with heinous crimes," are no longer things I can do in my life now that I work a full-time job and have responsibilities in the home. Merely a difference of how one looks at the world around them, and how one evaluates the choices made. I mean, I understand how absolutely limiting the time period actually is, but I can't remember the last time I felt as if the "world was my oyster."
And anyone who believes that attending undergrad somehow removes those "Training Wheels" is sorely mistaken. Everyone has a different experience, but most liberal arts institutions have a tendency to shield their students from the worst effects of consequence in the name of "preparing you for the real world." Seriously, I worked for a Residential Life department for four years and in that time I saw a lot of actions that would have students arrested, only the real authorities were never involved due to the school's internal, and more lenient, disciplinary proceedings being deemed "enough."
But I know that everyone has a different experience, and while mine in High School was pretty awesome, other peoples' experiences were less so.
I'm sorry that you don't like the position you've put yourself in, but that basically reinforces my claim. And I never said anything about undergrad, though you appear to be conflating undergrad with dorm-life either way.
And yeah if your dorm shields you from consequences then once again high school isn't the thing you miss, the thing you miss is having someone follow you around and wipe your ass for you. Real freedom requires you to wipe your own ass.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Then your point is irrelevant to the claim you're arguing against.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Then your point is irrelevant to the claim you're arguing against.
Not really.
But what's the point arguing with you about happiness. You seem like the least happy person I've ever encountered. I might as well argue with Brazilian tribesmen about the best kind of WoW character.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Then your point is irrelevant to the claim you're arguing against.
Not really.
But what's the point arguing with you about happiness. You seem like the least happy person I've ever encountered. I might as well argue with Brazilian tribesmen about the best kind of WoW character.
So all you've got is ad-hom now? How big of you.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
High school was not the high point of my life, but there were things I enjoyed: the set goals to achieve, the security, the constant proximity to friends, the beginnings of intellectual awareness. So, in other news, other people may value different things than you do, and may have had different experiences. Huge shocker, right?
If anyone here is acting bitter, it's pretty much you.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
High school was not the high point of my life, but there were things I enjoyed: the set goals to achieve, the security, the constant proximity to friends, the beginnings of intellectual awareness. So, in other news, other people may value different things than you do, and may have had different experiences. Huge shocker, right?
If anyone here is acting bitter, it's pretty much you.
Not really, and if you bothered to read things before responding to them you'd see that nothing you said has anything to do with the claim you're arguing against. Good job.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Then your point is irrelevant to the claim you're arguing against.
Not really.
But what's the point arguing with you about happiness. You seem like the least happy person I've ever encountered. I might as well argue with Brazilian tribesmen about the best kind of WoW character.
So all you've got is ad-hom now? How big of you.
Okay sunbeam. Shine on.
Not like you've been making any personal conclusions. Like telling people they are only disagreeing with you because they are bitter about how they've screwed up their lives.
Always a pleasure talking to you, have a nice day.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
I think perhaps it's a response to the derogatory manner you posed your statement in. Basically, you came across as saying "If your life sucks worse now than it did in high school you suck and I'm awesome. ARROO!"
To which a lot of people essentially responded, "Fuck you VC, you're a patronising cunt".
It wasn't so much a life lesson as an exercise in trying to rub other peoples' faces in the dirt whilst boosting your own ego.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
I think perhaps it's a response to the derogatory manner you posed your statement in. Basically, you came across as saying "If your life sucks worse now than it did in high school you suck and I'm awesome. ARROO!"
To which a lot of people essentially responded, "Fuck you VC, you're a patronising cunt".
It wasn't so much a life lesson as an exercise in trying to rub other peoples' faces in the dirt whilst boosting your own ego.
That would make sense if I had said anything about myself.
And yeah if your dorm shields you from consequences then once again high school isn't the thing you miss, the thing you miss is having someone follow you around and wipe your ass for you. Real freedom requires you to wipe your own ass.
This isn't really a contest. Just my experience.
And yeah, I'm conflating all of undergrad with dorm-life. So, residential undergrad follows the same path. Of course, we all have different experiences, and I'm a bit hesitant to agree with any blanket statement about the worth of the time-period that I feel has been my "best and happiest" so far.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
If your parents never urged you to get a 9 to 5 job that you didnt have fantastic interest in then you're unusual, thats pretty much the norm. Generally speaking a parent is interested in you supporting yourself and not ending up homeless, so theyre not going to tell you to say fuck it and carve a new path in life - like Tucker did. The guy graduated for U of Chicago, then Duke law - fucked up his law career, then got kicked out of the family business - he ended up basically destitute for a couple years just writing and trying to get his shit out there. Now he has a book thats been on the NYT bestseller for two years, and is going to have a wide release film coming out this fall that he produced and wrote, and got independently financed.
So it worked out for him, but it easily could have gone the other way, and parents will tend to steer their kids to the safer path, to avoid the likely failing.
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
I think perhaps it's a response to the derogatory manner you posed your statement in. Basically, you came across as saying "If your life sucks worse now than it did in high school you suck and I'm awesome. ARROO!"
To which a lot of people essentially responded, "Fuck you VC, you're a patronising cunt".
It wasn't so much a life lesson as an exercise in trying to rub other peoples' faces in the dirt whilst boosting your own ego.
That would make sense if I had said anything about myself.
I guess a lot of people took that as implied.
If it bears no relation to your own experiences and vital life lessons you've learned as a result of said experiences, why would you even post it?
There are things which are within our power, and there are things which are beyond our power. Within our power are opinion, aim, desire, aversion, and, in one word, whatever affairs are our own. Beyond our power are body, property, reputation, office, and, in one word, whatever are not properly our own affairs.
Now, the things within our power are by nature free, unrestricted, unhindered; but those beyond our power are weak, dependent, restricted, alien. Remember, then, that if you attribute freedom to things by nature dependent, and take what belongs to others for you own, you will be hindered, you will lament, you will be disturbed, you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you take for your own only that which is your own, and view what belongs to others just as it really is, then no one will ever compel you, no one will restrict you, you will find fault with no one, you will accuse no one, you will do nothing against your will; no one will hurt you, you will not have an enemy, nor will you suffer any harm.
And yeah if your dorm shields you from consequences then once again high school isn't the thing you miss, the thing you miss is having someone follow you around and wipe your ass for you. Real freedom requires you to wipe your own ass.
This isn't really a contest. Just my experience.
And yeah, I'm conflating all of undergrad with dorm-life. So, residential undergrad follows the same path. Of course, we all have different experiences, and I'm a bit hesitant to agree with any blanket statement about the worth of the time-period that I feel has been my "best and happiest" so far.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
If your parents never urged you to get a 9 to 5 job that you didnt have fantastic interest in then you're unusual, thats pretty much the norm. Generally speaking a parent is interested in you supporting yourself and not ending up homeless, so theyre not going to tell you to say fuck it and carve a new path in life - like Tucker did. The guy graduated for U of Chicago, then Duke law - fucked up his law career, then got kicked out of the family business - he ended up basically destitute for a couple years just writing and trying to get his shit out there. Now he has a book thats been on the NYT bestseller for two years, and is going to have a wide release film coming out this fall that he produced and wrote, and got independently financed.
So it worked out for him, but it easily could have gone the other way, and parents will tend to steer their kids to the safer path, to avoid the likely failing.
So what you're saying is...?
Whether or not you have parents that encourage pursuing a 9 to 5 or parents who encourage chasing your dreams ultimately has little bearing on your success and/or happiness and Tucker is just spewing meaningless shit?
I still don't get how you've managed to spend two pages arguing against, essentially "if you don't like the consequences of the choices you make you should maybe re-evaluate those choices". I mean, really? What should people do instead of that when they don't like the consequences of the choices they make?
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
I think perhaps it's a response to the derogatory manner you posed your statement in. Basically, you came across as saying "If your life sucks worse now than it did in high school you suck and I'm awesome. ARROO!"
To which a lot of people essentially responded, "Fuck you VC, you're a patronising cunt".
It wasn't so much a life lesson as an exercise in trying to rub other peoples' faces in the dirt whilst boosting your own ego.
That would make sense if I had said anything about myself.
I guess a lot of people took that as implied.
If it bears no relation to your own experiences and vital life lessons you've learned as a result of said experiences, why would you even post it?
Well a lot of people are pretty dumb, then. How do you get that second sentence from mine? It doesn't follow at all.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
If your parents never urged you to get a 9 to 5 job that you didnt have fantastic interest in then you're unusual, thats pretty much the norm. Generally speaking a parent is interested in you supporting yourself and not ending up homeless, so theyre not going to tell you to say fuck it and carve a new path in life - like Tucker did. The guy graduated for U of Chicago, then Duke law - fucked up his law career, then got kicked out of the family business - he ended up basically destitute for a couple years just writing and trying to get his shit out there. Now he has a book thats been on the NYT bestseller for two years, and is going to have a wide release film coming out this fall that he produced and wrote, and got independently financed.
So it worked out for him, but it easily could have gone the other way, and parents will tend to steer their kids to the safer path, to avoid the likely failing.
So what you're saying is...?
Whether or not you have parents that encourage pursuing a 9 to 5 or parents who encourage chasing your dreams ultimately has little bearing on your success and/or happiness and Tucker is just spewing meaningless shit?
My point was he didnt have terrible parents and teachers. and no, he doesnt spew meaningless shit. Most people have no coherent philosophy of life - theyre enlightened hedonists at best, but probably unenlightened hedonists, and that's going to be the case unless you have some influential figures in your life that show you what life is really about.
And yeah if your dorm shields you from consequences then once again high school isn't the thing you miss, the thing you miss is having someone follow you around and wipe your ass for you. Real freedom requires you to wipe your own ass.
This isn't really a contest. Just my experience.
And yeah, I'm conflating all of undergrad with dorm-life. So, residential undergrad follows the same path. Of course, we all have different experiences, and I'm a bit hesitant to agree with any blanket statement about the worth of the time-period that I feel has been my "best and happiest" so far.
I've made no claims about worth, either.
Why can't you just say, "Okay, we had different experiences" and just move on. Really, I think this insane requirement for broad blanket-statements to become law is what's pissing people off. Let's just be nice to each other instead of digging defensive-position holes that we can't seem to climb out of.
Really, that's all I'm looking for. Just say, "Our experiences differed" and move on.
Posts
Yeah. I recommend Tuckers advice, the guy is a clear thinker, and that right there is his main message. He's probably one of the biggest influences on my life, which might seem really stupid if you've just read some of his stories. But the guy gives great advice.
I also am a big proponent in Stoicism.
I will unabashedly say that High School is, so far, the crown achievement of my life. Of course I had a pretty shitty experience in undergrad and my professional career is quickly becoming a life-sucker.
You say "training wheels," I say "How the shit was I allowed to get away with all the stupid, awesome stuff that I'll never be able to get away with again?"
I also fully expect my position to change in a decade. But if it doesn't, I'll be happy knowing my formative years were awesome.
I guess I can understand this as a reason to dislike the high school years in retrospect for something outside of the actual institution of high school. I don't necessarily agree, but it makes sense.
I mean I could go into excruciating detail about why I found high school awesome, why I didn't find university that awesome outside of classes, and why work is only okay. Of course I could go into detail, it's my life. But it's also boring to anyone else, and not really relevant.
Like I said, I personally find quantifying your life as a pretty ridiculous exercise, and maybe it is only the people who say "high school was the best and nothing else was good, and I have no outside excuse to blame that" that are the ones you dislike. However, I find that many people (and I'm getting that impression from several people here) write off high school as a time in their life they did not enjoyed and simply tolerated until better things came along. And that's fine, but it's not really fair to assume that anyone of value should have had the same experience.
I'm confused as to how you can get away with less now than you could then.
I'm pretty sure I have an unquantifiable magnitude of freedom compared to high school. And I even get paid for doing stuff 7 to 8 hours a day.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
That's my take as well. I'm not sure how he's coming to the opposite conclusion.
responsibility and morality. both come with age and hamper 'fun'.
Only if someone shields you from consequences when you're young, but if that's the case then high school is irrelevant as that someone can continue to shield you from consequences for your entire life if they so choose.
college has been a wonderful, meaningful experience
Maybe being in training wheels isn't the defining characteristic of everyone's teenage experience. Maybe the companionship of childhood friends or the closeness to family life or the experience of school and particular teachers or coaches is the defining characteristic.
I think you've made a judgement based on a rather narrow, stereotypical view of what life as a late teenager is like. People's experience can be fairly varied in that regard.
Stoicism is where it is at. Hardcore.
Which was another vital life-lesson I learned, actually.
The worst years of my life were 2003 to 2009: the forum years.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
So? For some people it's different. There's nothing wrong with them or their lives, and, if someone's run into the workload hard, then they may have a very different perspective.
That's it, exactly. The consequences of actions were rooted in preventative, "life-lesson" context. There were so many nights when I was 17 and 18 at that tail end of high school where a good friend and I would be out late, doing nothing in particular because we could be out and about. These situations, while never the "I got away with heinous crimes," are no longer things I can do in my life now that I work a full-time job and have responsibilities in the home. Merely a difference of how one looks at the world around them, and how one evaluates the choices made. I mean, I understand how absolutely limiting the time period actually is, but I can't remember the last time I felt as if the "world was my oyster."
And anyone who believes that attending undergrad somehow removes those "Training Wheels" is sorely mistaken. Everyone has a different experience, but most liberal arts institutions have a tendency to shield their students from the worst effects of consequence in the name of "preparing you for the real world." Seriously, I worked for a Residential Life department for four years and in that time I saw a lot of actions that would have students arrested, only the real authorities were never involved due to the school's internal, and more lenient, disciplinary proceedings being deemed "enough."
But I know that everyone has a different experience, and while mine in High School was pretty awesome, other peoples' experiences were less so.
And it's pretty much this, in my case post-undergrad. And I'm sure that cloud-school wasn't awesome for Fuzzy.
What, you got to pick where you lived, do what you want for a living rather than being limited to basically minimum-wage food-service/retail jobs, go where you please when you please without having to get permission, etc? And your friends went away after high school? I think you're just bitter about the position you've put yourself in since then.
I'm sorry that you don't like the position you've put yourself in, but that basically reinforces my claim. And I never said anything about undergrad, though you appear to be conflating undergrad with dorm-life either way.
Actually I had a terrible time in high school and finishing was one of the happiest moments of my life.
My point, though, is that other people can have a rather different experience of things.
Then your point is irrelevant to the claim you're arguing against.
Not really.
But what's the point arguing with you about happiness. You seem like the least happy person I've ever encountered. I might as well argue with Brazilian tribesmen about the best kind of WoW character.
So all you've got is ad-hom now? How big of you.
High school was not the high point of my life, but there were things I enjoyed: the set goals to achieve, the security, the constant proximity to friends, the beginnings of intellectual awareness. So, in other news, other people may value different things than you do, and may have had different experiences. Huge shocker, right?
If anyone here is acting bitter, it's pretty much you.
Not really, and if you bothered to read things before responding to them you'd see that nothing you said has anything to do with the claim you're arguing against. Good job.
I don't really see how saying you really enjoyed a period in your past equates to saying you hate your present. If someone is isolating high school as the best portion of their life because they are unhappy now, then obviously you have a point, but that doesn't appear to be what others are arguing against.
Okay sunbeam. Shine on.
Not like you've been making any personal conclusions. Like telling people they are only disagreeing with you because they are bitter about how they've screwed up their lives.
Always a pleasure talking to you, have a nice day.
That is in fact exactly the claim that they're arguing against, and they're strawmanning themselves to do it. I don't understand why.
See also: U.S. Supreme Court.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
I think perhaps it's a response to the derogatory manner you posed your statement in. Basically, you came across as saying "If your life sucks worse now than it did in high school you suck and I'm awesome. ARROO!"
To which a lot of people essentially responded, "Fuck you VC, you're a patronising cunt".
It wasn't so much a life lesson as an exercise in trying to rub other peoples' faces in the dirt whilst boosting your own ego.
That would make sense if I had said anything about myself.
This isn't really a contest. Just my experience.
And yeah, I'm conflating all of undergrad with dorm-life. So, residential undergrad follows the same path. Of course, we all have different experiences, and I'm a bit hesitant to agree with any blanket statement about the worth of the time-period that I feel has been my "best and happiest" so far.
If your parents never urged you to get a 9 to 5 job that you didnt have fantastic interest in then you're unusual, thats pretty much the norm. Generally speaking a parent is interested in you supporting yourself and not ending up homeless, so theyre not going to tell you to say fuck it and carve a new path in life - like Tucker did. The guy graduated for U of Chicago, then Duke law - fucked up his law career, then got kicked out of the family business - he ended up basically destitute for a couple years just writing and trying to get his shit out there. Now he has a book thats been on the NYT bestseller for two years, and is going to have a wide release film coming out this fall that he produced and wrote, and got independently financed.
So it worked out for him, but it easily could have gone the other way, and parents will tend to steer their kids to the safer path, to avoid the likely failing.
I guess a lot of people took that as implied.
If it bears no relation to your own experiences and vital life lessons you've learned as a result of said experiences, why would you even post it?
I just started reading this book: A guide to the good life: The ancient art of stoic joy
I've made no claims about worth, either.
So what you're saying is...?
Whether or not you have parents that encourage pursuing a 9 to 5 or parents who encourage chasing your dreams ultimately has little bearing on your success and/or happiness and Tucker is just spewing meaningless shit?
Well a lot of people are pretty dumb, then. How do you get that second sentence from mine? It doesn't follow at all.
My point was he didnt have terrible parents and teachers. and no, he doesnt spew meaningless shit. Most people have no coherent philosophy of life - theyre enlightened hedonists at best, but probably unenlightened hedonists, and that's going to be the case unless you have some influential figures in your life that show you what life is really about.
Why can't you just say, "Okay, we had different experiences" and just move on. Really, I think this insane requirement for broad blanket-statements to become law is what's pissing people off. Let's just be nice to each other instead of digging defensive-position holes that we can't seem to climb out of.
Really, that's all I'm looking for. Just say, "Our experiences differed" and move on.