Does seem to be a slightly cheaper motherboard than I planned on getting (I can find one for about £55), but I suppose the plus is it all comes assembled, tested and ready to go.
Edit: they also do the same offer, with a more expensive motherboard. The components are about £260 together, and they're chrging about £320. Seems alot, now that I think about it. I'm just worried about setting up my own CPU and stuff.
Does seem to be a slightly cheaper motherboard than I planned on getting (I can find one for about £55), but I suppose the plus is it all comes assembled, tested and ready to go.
Edit: they also do the same offer, with a more expensive motherboard. The components are about £260 together, and they're chrging about £320. Seems alot, now that I think about it. I'm just worried about setting up my own CPU and stuff.
IMO putting your motherboard into your case is more of a pain than is putting components into your motherboard so I wouldn't pay a lot of money to have the CPU and memory installed.
lowlylowlycook on
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
There should be a reasonably priced core i7 build in the OP as well as the really expensive one.
edit: I'm dumb... I didn't read imperial6's post.
I still have to get around to a high end build but I have some questions.
Do you guys think that an i7 build without multiple GPU's makes sense? From a purely gaming perspective it seems to me that any reasonable single GPU will not be close to being bottlenecked by a Core 2 or Phenom II chip.
From a general computing point of view would adding a SSD for the OS and applications make more sense than upgrading to i7?
I could always put something together but I'd miss that warm fuzzy feeling of recommending something I really believe in.
I also have some requests for guides/info:
We need something about audio. I know for many onboard is fine but what are the upgrade options. Also some recommended speakers would be nice. I could probably steal some recommendations from the various websites, but does anyone here have strong feelings about this?
Does anyone have a link to a good guide to SLI/Crossfire chipsets and motherboards? I've never really looked into it before and apparently it's a rats nest of various chipsets and ways to handle the PCIE bandwidth, etc. I've gathered that having PCIE 16x for both cards isn't really a benefit but it would be nice to be able to link someone to a reasonable guide if they want more info.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
The thing is a pair of GTX260s will kill a GTX 285 while playing Crysis and the cost isn't ridiculously more.
Is SLI getting to be worth it at this point? How much of a detriment is it in terms of power consumption and heat output?
I just remember the conventional advice was that it was better to buy a bigger, better single card than risk SLI.
This has normally been the case. And, as you can see from the above post, because of that I've never really looked into SLI or whatever in any depth.
The problem if you can call it that is that the midrange and even entry level gaming GPUs have become quite capable and ATI and NVidia are having problems making GPUs that totally outclass them. Meanwhile SLI and Crossfire have matured and more games support them as well. The result seems to be that I see a lot of sites suggesting going with two cards for other than e-peen reasons which I don't really recall seeing in the past.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Okay, so...uh...what does thermal paste look like? Should I be able to "tell" if my CPU already has it applied? I bought a boxed retail Intel Core 2 Duo 7400, and the instructions don't say to apply thermal paste (whereas the instructions for the mobo mention this step, and say to skip it if it came pre-applied), so am I safe assuming there's, like, thermal paste on there?
EDIT: Nevermind, it's on the heat sink/fan. I'm just stupid.
I don't want to build another computer again.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
I don't want to build another computer again.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
What's the difference if you still have to install Windows yourself and diagnose your own problems and all that? It's that stuff that's the hard part, not putting the components together.
I don't want to build another computer again.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
What's the difference if you still have to install Windows yourself and diagnose your own problems and all that? It's that stuff that's the hard part, not putting the components together.
The thing is a pair of GTX260s will kill a GTX 285 while playing Crysis and the cost isn't ridiculously more.
Is SLI getting to be worth it at this point? How much of a detriment is it in terms of power consumption and heat output?
I just remember the conventional advice was that it was better to buy a bigger, better single card than risk SLI.
This has normally been the case. And, as you can see from the above post, because of that I've never really looked into SLI or whatever in any depth.
The problem if you can call it that is that the midrange and even entry level gaming GPUs have become quite capable and ATI and NVidia are having problems making GPUs that totally outclass them. Meanwhile SLI and Crossfire have matured and more games support them as well. The result seems to be that I see a lot of sites suggesting going with two cards for other than e-peen reasons which I don't really recall seeing in the past.
I usually stay away from advising SLi except for the total epeen builds. Single card just makes more sense to me, because you don't have the minor headaches of compatibility, needing a hugely powerful psu, making sure you'll have room in your case, etc. SLi may offer more bang for the buck though so I see both as viable options depending on personal preference.
Now to answer the question about having an i7 build that didn't have a bleeding edge video card, I have an answer there too, but I don't know how satisfying it will be. Basically it's that going near bleeding edge on your processor and mobo means you won't have to do an entire rebuild for a long, long time, probably 5-6 years. At the 2-3 year mark, it would take all of 5 or 10 minutes and maybe a couple hundred bucks to add some more ram and pop in a new video card. (TLDR: Future proofing.)
I don't want to build another computer again.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
What's the difference if you still have to install Windows yourself and diagnose your own problems and all that? It's that stuff that's the hard part, not putting the components together.
Have a friend do it for you?
Man, I'd put together a system for a buddy for beer, no problemo. It's not that hard. And a sixer will definitely cost less than anybody's going to charge you.
EDIT: And my new compy is here, and assembled, and posts fine, but I can't get it to boot off this Win7 DVD I downloaded. But my current working computer doesn't boot off it either, so that's a "good" sign. I'm re-downloading as we speak. If that fails, it's time for plan B (install XP or Linux...or both).
Second, I'm not trying to argue with you or anything (i don't know jack), but a tech savy friend of mine was talking quite lowly of the Phenom II. He said something about how they botched the engineering on them, making it slower (trying to paraphrase here).
Also, what do most of you guys do about Operating Systems? Is using the free Windows 7 as the main OS safe? I was thinking of getting the OEM version of Windows Vista (64bit) to save a little money.
I'm planning on pulling the trigger sometime soon on the CPU/mobo/ram combo from that build, and this is after a LOT of research. Phenom II's are considered to be the product that finally brings some competition back to Intel for everything except the high end. Also, the 720 is a Black Box and a great overclocker, so you can basically just pump your multi until you hit a comfortable voltage/heat limit. Additionally, there has been some luck in unlocking the fourth core :winky: And yes, I am planning on running Win7 RC until I can find a deal on an OEM version of Ultimate sometime early next year.
@lowlylowlycook, I have a couple points about your builds. First, according to a recent Anandtech runoff between the E5300 and X2 7850, the Intel platform excels at almost all general CPU tasks, but the AMD offering pulls ahead in most games (mostly due to cache sizes). The E5300 is a lot more energy efficient and the gaming differences aren't huge, so I don't know if you want to make a note or feel like splitting the $400 system, but it's worth considering.
As for the i7 systems, they seem to be the most future proof Intel platforms at the moment. They have indicated the socket in use with them will remain the higher-performance, easier to overclock option at least through the 32nm refresh of Nehalem. As for 775, it seems to be a dead end with the lower cost i7 chips (i5 I think?) introducing a new socket later this eyar.
The thing is a pair of GTX260s will kill a GTX 285 while playing Crysis and the cost isn't ridiculously more.
Is SLI getting to be worth it at this point? How much of a detriment is it in terms of power consumption and heat output?
I just remember the conventional advice was that it was better to buy a bigger, better single card than risk SLI.
This has normally been the case. And, as you can see from the above post, because of that I've never really looked into SLI or whatever in any depth.
The problem if you can call it that is that the midrange and even entry level gaming GPUs have become quite capable and ATI and NVidia are having problems making GPUs that totally outclass them. Meanwhile SLI and Crossfire have matured and more games support them as well. The result seems to be that I see a lot of sites suggesting going with two cards for other than e-peen reasons which I don't really recall seeing in the past.
I usually stay away from advising SLi except for the total epeen builds. Single card just makes more sense to me, because you don't have the minor headaches of compatibility, needing a hugely powerful psu, making sure you'll have room in your case, etc. SLi may offer more bang for the buck though so I see both as viable options depending on personal preference.
Now to answer the question about having an i7 build that didn't have a bleeding edge video card, I have an answer there too, but I don't know how satisfying it will be. Basically it's that going near bleeding edge on your processor and mobo means you won't have to do an entire rebuild for a long, long time, probably 5-6 years. At the 2-3 year mark, it would take all of 5 or 10 minutes and maybe a couple hundred bucks to add some more ram and pop in a new video card. (TLDR: Future proofing.)
Multi GPU has really come along. The SLI'd 6800's I had, not really worth the cash.
On the other hand the liquid cooled SLI'd 8800's I had moved from an nforce 590 rig, to a core2 duo 680i righ, to a core2 quad 780i rig, to my current phenom II 780a rig (got tired of buggy nforce for intel), along with the RAM and each time.
Playing at really high resolutions, I needed SLI, and so far, I haven't needed to buy a new GPU since I got these.
@lowlylowlycook, I have a couple points about your builds. First, according to a recent Anandtech runoff between the E5300 and X2 7850, the Intel platform excels at almost all general CPU tasks, but the AMD offering pulls ahead in most games (mostly due to cache sizes). The E5300 is a lot more energy efficient and the gaming differences aren't huge, so I don't know if you want to make a note or feel like splitting the $400 system, but it's worth considering.
I can definitely add it to the low-end CPU section. I don't know if we really need all possible builds. I sort of like that series of benchmarks because a lot of the gaming CPU comparisons I've seen run everything at low setting and resolutions so that the system will be bottlenecked at the CPU which just unnecessarily amplifies the effects of the CPU.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I don't want to build another computer again.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
What's the difference if you still have to install Windows yourself and diagnose your own problems and all that? It's that stuff that's the hard part, not putting the components together.
Hey guys. I'm going to be building a new machine here in a week or so. It's pretty much going to be my dream computer, my budget is around $2500-$3000 which includes everything. It'll be used for everything from gaming, to media center, to development machine. I've done quite a bit of research already, but want to see if it makes sense to everyone. I prefer Intel and Nvidia, and plan on overclocking. I'll buy quite a few parts from NewEgg, but the case and processor will currently be bought from MicroCenter which is local and cheaper. The monitor... I don't know the best place to buy that quite yet. Best Buy doesn't seem to have a 24" I would like and I'd rather avoid from buying online if there are dead pixels.
Graphics Card
$354.99 - EVGA 01G-P3-1285-AR GeForce GTX 285 SC Edition 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130446
I'll get another in SLI eventually if I feel I need it. This is the overclocked version, it includes a free game and is only like $5 more than the regular.
$324.99 - Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167005
This will be for the OS and other programs. I chose the Intel over the OCZ since theoretically there is a firmware update for the Intel to get rid of the slowdown over time with SSD's.
Monitors
$329.99 x2 - SAMSUNG ToC T240HD Rose-Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen HDTV Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10000:1 Built in DTV Tuner & Dolby Digital Surround Speakers - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001280&Tpk=240hd
I'm going to be using a monitor as a TV occasionally.
The Video Card might be in SLI eventually, and I'm buying 2 monitors for Dual Screen. I would rather buy an Antec 900 case, but I don't think two GTX 285's would fit in there. In 1-2 years I'll probably buy a DX11 card... I'm assuming I shouldn't have a problem with those fitting in the case either. I realize much of the computer is overkill, but this is the first time I've been able to afford something like this. But I'm not against cheaper components by any means if you have any suggestions.
I have a budget of $1,400 and I want playing games to be the focus
I know I should be doing this myself but I haven't been keeping up on computer hardware for a long time. I'm looking for maximum performance but I also want to future proof it as much as possible so if you think the computer could last longer by getting a really good processor over a videocard I'm open to the idea.
Hey guys. I'm going to be building a new machine here in a week or so. It's pretty much going to be my dream computer, my budget is around $2500-$3000 which includes everything. It'll be used for everything from gaming, to media center, to development machine. I've done quite a bit of research already, but want to see if it makes sense to everyone. I prefer Intel and Nvidia, and plan on overclocking. I'll buy quite a few parts from NewEgg, but the case and processor will currently be bought from MicroCenter which is local and cheaper. The monitor... I don't know the best place to buy that quite yet. Best Buy doesn't seem to have a 24" I would like and I'd rather avoid from buying online if there are dead pixels.
Graphics Card
$354.99 - EVGA 01G-P3-1285-AR GeForce GTX 285 SC Edition 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130446
I'll get another in SLI eventually if I feel I need it. This is the overclocked version, it includes a free game and is only like $5 more than the regular.
$324.99 - Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167005
This will be for the OS and other programs. I chose the Intel over the OCZ since theoretically there is a firmware update for the Intel to get rid of the slowdown over time with SSD's.
Monitors
$329.99 x2 - SAMSUNG ToC T240HD Rose-Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen HDTV Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10000:1 Built in DTV Tuner & Dolby Digital Surround Speakers - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001280&Tpk=240hd
I'm going to be using a monitor as a TV occasionally.
The Video Card might be in SLI eventually, and I'm buying 2 monitors for Dual Screen. I would rather buy an Antec 900 case, but I don't think two GTX 285's would fit in there. In 1-2 years I'll probably buy a DX11 card... I'm assuming I shouldn't have a problem with those fitting in the case either. I realize much of the computer is overkill, but this is the first time I've been able to afford something like this. But I'm not against cheaper components by any means if you have any suggestions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'll be using Windows 7 RC btw.
First all your links are broken. The first thing I'd do is see if you can save just a bit with combo deals. Not as big a deal for your comp vs. a $500 one, obviously.
Also according to techreport dual GTX260s will beat out a GTX 285. It also seems that dual GTX260s will beat out dual GTX285s though xbitlabs tells a different and more believable story.
Still 2xGTX 260's seem to be a compelling replacement for a single GTX285.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I have a budget of $1,400 and I want playing games to be the focus
I know I should be doing this myself but I haven't been keeping up on computer hardware for a long time. I'm looking for maximum performance but I also want to future proof it as much as possible so if you think the computer could last longer by getting a really good processor over a videocard I'm open to the idea.
edit: I also need wireless internet
Have you taken a look at my (in progress) prosective OP from a few pages ago? Though this reminds me that it should have a list of questions people might want to answer when they post in here.
Does that budget just for the computer itself or do you need a monitor+other stuff?
Do you care about performance for things besides just gaming?
How much do you care about pushing Crysis performance specifically?
If you have $1400 to spend on just the computer and you'd rather spend it all, the e-peen build from that post minus the SSD should do nicely.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Hey guys. I'm going to be building a new machine here in a week or so. It's pretty much going to be my dream computer, my budget is around $2500-$3000 which includes everything. It'll be used for everything from gaming, to media center, to development machine. I've done quite a bit of research already, but want to see if it makes sense to everyone. I prefer Intel and Nvidia, and plan on overclocking. I'll buy quite a few parts from NewEgg, but the case and processor will currently be bought from MicroCenter which is local and cheaper. The monitor... I don't know the best place to buy that quite yet. Best Buy doesn't seem to have a 24" I would like and I'd rather avoid from buying online if there are dead pixels.
Graphics Card
$354.99 - EVGA 01G-P3-1285-AR GeForce GTX 285 SC Edition 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130446
I'll get another in SLI eventually if I feel I need it. This is the overclocked version, it includes a free game and is only like $5 more than the regular.
$324.99 - Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167005
This will be for the OS and other programs. I chose the Intel over the OCZ since theoretically there is a firmware update for the Intel to get rid of the slowdown over time with SSD's.
Monitors
$329.99 x2 - SAMSUNG ToC T240HD Rose-Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen HDTV Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10000:1 Built in DTV Tuner & Dolby Digital Surround Speakers - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001280&Tpk=240hd
I'm going to be using a monitor as a TV occasionally.
The Video Card might be in SLI eventually, and I'm buying 2 monitors for Dual Screen. I would rather buy an Antec 900 case, but I don't think two GTX 285's would fit in there. In 1-2 years I'll probably buy a DX11 card... I'm assuming I shouldn't have a problem with those fitting in the case either. I realize much of the computer is overkill, but this is the first time I've been able to afford something like this. But I'm not against cheaper components by any means if you have any suggestions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'll be using Windows 7 RC btw.
The Video Card might be in SLI eventually, and I'm buying 2 monitors for Dual Screen. I would rather buy an Antec 900 case, but I don't think two GTX 285's would fit in there. In 1-2 years I'll probably buy a DX11 card... I'm assuming I shouldn't have a problem with those fitting in the case either. I realize much of the computer is overkill, but this is the first time I've been able to afford something like this. But I'm not against cheaper components by any means if you have any suggestions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'll be using Windows 7 RC btw.
First all your links are broken. The first thing I'd do is see if you can save just a bit with combo deals. Not as big a deal for your comp vs. a $500 one, obviously.
Also according to techreport dual GTX260s will beat out a GTX 285. It also seems that dual GTX260s will beat out dual GTX285s though xbitlabs tells a different and more believable story.
Still 2xGTX 260's seem to be a compelling replacement for a single GTX285.
Ah, sorry about the links... I've fixed them in the original post and the spoiler above.
Yeah, I saw the same things with the 2xGTX260's beating out the GTX285. I had that in the original build, but switched it out after some advice at another forum that if I had the money, it made sense to buy one better card than SLI two lower cards, and latter buy another high end card for SLI if needed. I doubt that 2xGTX260 will beat out 2xGTX285. I don't know how techreport got that. Anandtech(http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3501&p=4) also agrees with xbitlabs, though xbitlabs doesn't seem to test the GTX260 in the link you gave.
These are just to serve as a starting point. You may find components at a discount or new, compelling bits of electronics may have shown up since these were created.
Powerhouse (~$1000)
A quad core CPU and a Solid State drive provide more general computing performance right now. An AM3 socket motherboard and a beefy power supply provides futureproofing through the ability to upgrade the CPU or add a second video card later.
Total E-Peen ($Texas)
Intel i7 CPU, 2 fast GPUs, a solid state drive for you OS and aps and a terabyte hard drive for your data. Oh and a Blu-Ray player. Just don't look at computer prices for the next few years or you might cry.
To get a more reasonable price you could downsize or eliminate the SSD and/or go with only one GPU.
How about an audio card for the 700 and 1000 build? Or is it not really needed?
I'm far from an audiophile and use headphones for my computer so I don't know anything about the current state of PC audio besides the fact that onboard is generally considered good enough for most people so it seems it should remain an "extra". If anyone wants to write up a short blurb for me to add I'd be more than willing to add it in.
If anyone wants to nominate a default suggestion for medium and high end monitors feel free to contribute those as well.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Is there that big a difference between 5ms and 2ms? Those seem to be the major differences.
It's not really possible to pick monitors based on any kind of objective measure like response time. Also LCD manufacturers often game the numbers like response time or contrast ratio etc. making them totally useless.
Even if someone you trust recommends a monitor you still have to hope that the maker doesn't change what panel (the actual screen) without telling anyone.
So all in all it's a real pain to recommend monitors.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Is there that big a difference between 5ms and 2ms? Those seem to be the major differences.
It's not really possible to pick monitors based on any kind of objective measure like response time. Also LCD manufacturers often game the numbers like response time or contrast ratio etc. making them totally useless.
Even if someone you trust recommends a monitor you still have to hope that the maker doesn't change what panel (the actual screen) without telling anyone.
They're both TN panels already (probably the same TN panel), so there's not much risk of a panel lottery. The Acer's complete lack of reviews make me wary, I'd probably get the ASUS.
1.8V
Does that seem accurate?
For DDR2, absolutely. You might throw in something about keeping DDR3 under 1.65V, at least for the i7 platform.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
So I'm looking to upgrade my home computer. It was built in the summer of '06 with the graphics card being changed last year or in '07, can't remember.
I have a feeling everything will need to be replaced save the hard drive and power supply. What I have now:
The power it has now is fine, a little faster wouldn't hurt. I don't really play games that much anymore, but it would be nice to have something to keep it good.
What I would like recommendation on is something that could be cooler if possible. It generates heat now, and with the summer it just makes the room its in hotter than it should be.
So I'm looking to upgrade my home computer. It was built in the summer of '06 with the graphics card being changed last year or in '07, can't remember.
I have a feeling everything will need to be replaced save the hard drive and power supply. What I have now:
The power it has now is fine, a little faster wouldn't hurt. I don't really play games that much anymore, but it would be nice to have something to keep it good.
What I would like recommendation on is something that could be cooler if possible. It generates heat now, and with the summer it just makes the room its in hotter than it should be.
So, recommendations?
Well I'd suggest a ATI 4770 as having the best combination of power efficiency (power used = heat generated) and gaming prowess. Likewise the Intel E5200 is cheap and power efficient.
If you replace your hard drive now you will lessen the chance of a failure in the future so if I were you I'd look at the components of the low end <$500 computer build from my earlier post and buy everything but the case and the optical drive. That would be like $350 or so.
Another option would be to just upgrade your CPU and video card.
lowlylowlycook on
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Moe FwackyRight Here, Right NowDrives a BuickModeratormod
Posts
edit: I'm dumb... I didn't read imperial6's post.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMD-PHENOM-II-X3-AM3-720-CPU-MOTHERBOARD-4GB-RAM-BUNDLE_W0QQitemZ120401962143QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motherboards_CPUs?hash=item120401962143&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
Does seem to be a slightly cheaper motherboard than I planned on getting (I can find one for about £55), but I suppose the plus is it all comes assembled, tested and ready to go.
Edit: they also do the same offer, with a more expensive motherboard. The components are about £260 together, and they're chrging about £320. Seems alot, now that I think about it. I'm just worried about setting up my own CPU and stuff.
IMO putting your motherboard into your case is more of a pain than is putting components into your motherboard so I wouldn't pay a lot of money to have the CPU and memory installed.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Is SLI getting to be worth it at this point? How much of a detriment is it in terms of power consumption and heat output?
I just remember the conventional advice was that it was better to buy a bigger, better single card than risk SLI.
I still have to get around to a high end build but I have some questions.
Do you guys think that an i7 build without multiple GPU's makes sense? From a purely gaming perspective it seems to me that any reasonable single GPU will not be close to being bottlenecked by a Core 2 or Phenom II chip.
From a general computing point of view would adding a SSD for the OS and applications make more sense than upgrading to i7?
I could always put something together but I'd miss that warm fuzzy feeling of recommending something I really believe in.
I also have some requests for guides/info:
We need something about audio. I know for many onboard is fine but what are the upgrade options. Also some recommended speakers would be nice. I could probably steal some recommendations from the various websites, but does anyone here have strong feelings about this?
Does anyone have a link to a good guide to SLI/Crossfire chipsets and motherboards? I've never really looked into it before and apparently it's a rats nest of various chipsets and ways to handle the PCIE bandwidth, etc. I've gathered that having PCIE 16x for both cards isn't really a benefit but it would be nice to be able to link someone to a reasonable guide if they want more info.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
This has normally been the case. And, as you can see from the above post, because of that I've never really looked into SLI or whatever in any depth.
The problem if you can call it that is that the midrange and even entry level gaming GPUs have become quite capable and ATI and NVidia are having problems making GPUs that totally outclass them. Meanwhile SLI and Crossfire have matured and more games support them as well. The result seems to be that I see a lot of sites suggesting going with two cards for other than e-peen reasons which I don't really recall seeing in the past.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
EDIT: Nevermind, it's on the heat sink/fan. I'm just stupid.
Ever.
I really just want a case, motherboard and video card. Should I just go with cyberpowerpc and try and strip out the garbage I don't need? Are there any other decent vendors that will assemble these things for me?
What's the difference if you still have to install Windows yourself and diagnose your own problems and all that? It's that stuff that's the hard part, not putting the components together.
Have a friend do it for you?
I usually stay away from advising SLi except for the total epeen builds. Single card just makes more sense to me, because you don't have the minor headaches of compatibility, needing a hugely powerful psu, making sure you'll have room in your case, etc. SLi may offer more bang for the buck though so I see both as viable options depending on personal preference.
Now to answer the question about having an i7 build that didn't have a bleeding edge video card, I have an answer there too, but I don't know how satisfying it will be. Basically it's that going near bleeding edge on your processor and mobo means you won't have to do an entire rebuild for a long, long time, probably 5-6 years. At the 2-3 year mark, it would take all of 5 or 10 minutes and maybe a couple hundred bucks to add some more ram and pop in a new video card. (TLDR: Future proofing.)
Man, I'd put together a system for a buddy for beer, no problemo. It's not that hard. And a sixer will definitely cost less than anybody's going to charge you.
EDIT: And my new compy is here, and assembled, and posts fine, but I can't get it to boot off this Win7 DVD I downloaded. But my current working computer doesn't boot off it either, so that's a "good" sign. I'm re-downloading as we speak. If that fails, it's time for plan B (install XP or Linux...or both).
I'm planning on pulling the trigger sometime soon on the CPU/mobo/ram combo from that build, and this is after a LOT of research. Phenom II's are considered to be the product that finally brings some competition back to Intel for everything except the high end. Also, the 720 is a Black Box and a great overclocker, so you can basically just pump your multi until you hit a comfortable voltage/heat limit. Additionally, there has been some luck in unlocking the fourth core :winky: And yes, I am planning on running Win7 RC until I can find a deal on an OEM version of Ultimate sometime early next year.
@lowlylowlycook, I have a couple points about your builds. First, according to a recent Anandtech runoff between the E5300 and X2 7850, the Intel platform excels at almost all general CPU tasks, but the AMD offering pulls ahead in most games (mostly due to cache sizes). The E5300 is a lot more energy efficient and the gaming differences aren't huge, so I don't know if you want to make a note or feel like splitting the $400 system, but it's worth considering.
As for the i7 systems, they seem to be the most future proof Intel platforms at the moment. They have indicated the socket in use with them will remain the higher-performance, easier to overclock option at least through the 32nm refresh of Nehalem. As for 775, it seems to be a dead end with the lower cost i7 chips (i5 I think?) introducing a new socket later this eyar.
Multi GPU has really come along. The SLI'd 6800's I had, not really worth the cash.
On the other hand the liquid cooled SLI'd 8800's I had moved from an nforce 590 rig, to a core2 duo 680i righ, to a core2 quad 780i rig, to my current phenom II 780a rig (got tired of buggy nforce for intel), along with the RAM and each time.
Playing at really high resolutions, I needed SLI, and so far, I haven't needed to buy a new GPU since I got these.
I can definitely add it to the low-end CPU section. I don't know if we really need all possible builds. I sort of like that series of benchmarks because a lot of the gaming CPU comparisons I've seen run everything at low setting and resolutions so that the system will be bottlenecked at the CPU which just unnecessarily amplifies the effects of the CPU.
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It's basically my job.
Case
$179.99 - Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043
Power Supply
$239 - CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139007
Modular!
Motherboard
$269.99 - ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365
Processor
$288.99 - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66 GHz 4 x 256KB Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
Cooling
$39.99 - XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029
Graphics Card
$354.99 - EVGA 01G-P3-1285-AR GeForce GTX 285 SC Edition 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130446
I'll get another in SLI eventually if I feel I need it. This is the overclocked version, it includes a free game and is only like $5 more than the regular.
Memory/RAM
$109.99 - OCZ Platinum 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381
Hard Drives
$104.99 - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284
$324.99 - Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167005
This will be for the OS and other programs. I chose the Intel over the OCZ since theoretically there is a firmware update for the Intel to get rid of the slowdown over time with SSD's.
Optical Drive
$199.99 - LG Black SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner Super Multi Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136137
Monitors
$329.99 x2 - SAMSUNG ToC T240HD Rose-Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen HDTV Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10000:1 Built in DTV Tuner & Dolby Digital Surround Speakers - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001280&Tpk=240hd
I'm going to be using a monitor as a TV occasionally.
Keyboard
$89.99 - Logitech G15 104 Normal Keys 29 Function Keys USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126034
Mouse
$72.99 - Logitech G7 Black 6 Buttons Tilt Wheel USB RF Wireless Laser 2000 dpi Mouse - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104203
Total Price
~$2800 without figuring in rebates
The Video Card might be in SLI eventually, and I'm buying 2 monitors for Dual Screen. I would rather buy an Antec 900 case, but I don't think two GTX 285's would fit in there. In 1-2 years I'll probably buy a DX11 card... I'm assuming I shouldn't have a problem with those fitting in the case either. I realize much of the computer is overkill, but this is the first time I've been able to afford something like this. But I'm not against cheaper components by any means if you have any suggestions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'll be using Windows 7 RC btw.
I have a budget of $1,400 and I want playing games to be the focus
I know I should be doing this myself but I haven't been keeping up on computer hardware for a long time. I'm looking for maximum performance but I also want to future proof it as much as possible so if you think the computer could last longer by getting a really good processor over a videocard I'm open to the idea.
edit: I also need wireless internet
First all your links are broken. The first thing I'd do is see if you can save just a bit with combo deals. Not as big a deal for your comp vs. a $500 one, obviously.
Also according to techreport dual GTX260s will beat out a GTX 285. It also seems that dual GTX260s will beat out dual GTX285s though xbitlabs tells a different and more believable story.
Still 2xGTX 260's seem to be a compelling replacement for a single GTX285.
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Have you taken a look at my (in progress) prosective OP from a few pages ago? Though this reminds me that it should have a list of questions people might want to answer when they post in here.
Does that budget just for the computer itself or do you need a monitor+other stuff?
Do you care about performance for things besides just gaming?
How much do you care about pushing Crysis performance specifically?
If you have $1400 to spend on just the computer and you'd rather spend it all, the e-peen build from that post minus the SSD should do nicely.
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Ah, sorry about the links... I've fixed them in the original post and the spoiler above.
Yeah, I saw the same things with the 2xGTX260's beating out the GTX285. I had that in the original build, but switched it out after some advice at another forum that if I had the money, it made sense to buy one better card than SLI two lower cards, and latter buy another high end card for SLI if needed. I doubt that 2xGTX260 will beat out 2xGTX285. I don't know how techreport got that. Anandtech(http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3501&p=4) also agrees with xbitlabs, though xbitlabs doesn't seem to test the GTX260 in the link you gave.
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just gaming
dont really want to design the computer around one game
well I want to future proof it as much as possible. I'm looking at your post right now and getting an idea of what I should be thinking about
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Yes, because AMD owns ATI, so there isn't a lot of Nvidia support.
That includes a $10 promo code that ends today so I figure that I might as well point it out now.
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Thanks!
Fixed those and a also a bit of the formatting. Luckily I get the total prices from Newegg directly instead of with my own addition.
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I'm far from an audiophile and use headphones for my computer so I don't know anything about the current state of PC audio besides the fact that onboard is generally considered good enough for most people so it seems it should remain an "extra". If anyone wants to write up a short blurb for me to add I'd be more than willing to add it in.
If anyone wants to nominate a default suggestion for medium and high end monitors feel free to contribute those as well.
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Also saw this for $179.99
Is there that big a difference between 5ms and 2ms? Those seem to be the major differences.
It's not really possible to pick monitors based on any kind of objective measure like response time. Also LCD manufacturers often game the numbers like response time or contrast ratio etc. making them totally useless.
Even if someone you trust recommends a monitor you still have to hope that the maker doesn't change what panel (the actual screen) without telling anyone.
So all in all it's a real pain to recommend monitors.
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Does that seem accurate?
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They're both TN panels already (probably the same TN panel), so there's not much risk of a panel lottery. The Acer's complete lack of reviews make me wary, I'd probably get the ASUS.
For DDR2, absolutely. You might throw in something about keeping DDR3 under 1.65V, at least for the i7 platform.
I have a feeling everything will need to be replaced save the hard drive and power supply. What I have now:
-500W Antec Power supply
-500 gig SATA drive
-AMD 64 X2 4200+ processor
-ASUS AM2 motherboard
-2 gigs ram
-NVidia GeForce 9600 GT 512 MB
The power it has now is fine, a little faster wouldn't hurt. I don't really play games that much anymore, but it would be nice to have something to keep it good.
What I would like recommendation on is something that could be cooler if possible. It generates heat now, and with the summer it just makes the room its in hotter than it should be.
So, recommendations?
Well I'd suggest a ATI 4770 as having the best combination of power efficiency (power used = heat generated) and gaming prowess. Likewise the Intel E5200 is cheap and power efficient.
If you replace your hard drive now you will lessen the chance of a failure in the future so if I were you I'd look at the components of the low end <$500 computer build from my earlier post and buy everything but the case and the optical drive. That would be like $350 or so.
Another option would be to just upgrade your CPU and video card.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)