While I've only beat a handful of levels (up to 1-3, 2-2, 3-2, 4-3, 5-1) and am at soul level... 50ish? I'm already considering making a new character, but this guy I want to try Black Phantoming with, what're some suggestions for building specifically towards PvP?
I was thinking maybe a lightly armored guy with a Baby Nail to do plague (because who keeps plague curing items on their quick-item bar) and/or a Scraping spear to screw up their armor. As well as using Thief's Ring and/or the Hide spell to try to get the drop on people.
I have a feeling Black Phantoming is nothing but frustration, but I've learned a bit from the few I've fought so far. Namely "don't just rush in", bide your time and wait for them to lower their guard, of course, if they're smart enough to hunt you down...
GalagaGalaxian on
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
Woohoo, just beat the first boss! Sorry if this has been asked a million times already, but what happens if you die in someone else's game while summoned? Do you lose your souls and have to start at the beginning? What happens if the person who summoned you dies? What if you have to leave before you beat the boss?
I want to try co-op but I'm kind of scared of fucking things up and losing all my stuff, or getting someone else killed.
Hm. I'm up to the point where I can take out everything up to the first fog door in 4-1. Might try getting past that damned dragon passage in 1-2 now.
You know what totally fucked me over with the dragon bridges of 1-2? I completely forgot you can run. I felt so stupid.
Also if you're really having trouble, buy a couple hundred arrows. Then go to the top of the tower after the first run past the dragon. Shoot him for 40 minutes as he swoops back over and over. Victory for you and the dragon is gone forever. I think you also need to do this for a trophy.
Go to 4-1, get the long compound bow, upgrade it a few times, shoot him twice per pass, probably only take 5 minutes.
Just got it. I am genuinely horrible at this game. I'm in the Boletaria Palace or whatever, and I just keep dying. I've died ten times so far, and I'm getting pretty sick of just replaying the same thing over and over again
Same here. I'm sure there's a lot of blood spots at the front of the palace that are me. Eventually I'll slowly start to progress. I hope.
I really want this game now. But I have a question, and it's a variation on a question that I've seen asked and answered like three other times.
What's the learning and feedback style like for this game? Or what's the balance of styles like?
Here's what I mean:
Sometimes a game will show you a visual clue and challenge you to recognize the clue and project that knowledge onto the game. For example, "here's a tripwire and some spiky logs suspended overhead. You may have never seen a tripwire in this game before, but you should have recognized it. I bet you'll remember to look for tripwires after you respawn!" The natural and logical constraints of the objects they show you imply certain gameplay behavior, and it's assumed you'll go slow and be observant and think about what you're seeing. "Maybe that's just for looks or maybe it's really a trap, but I'm taking no chances."
(Are there a great number of challenges like that in this game?)
All games are in some capacity about trying something, eventually failing to some extent, learning from your failure, repeating trial and error several times, and eventually learning well enough that you start to succeed. When you encounter a new challenge and you flail about and try to learn what you're missing, is the failure-stimulus nearly always death and respawning, or if you're careful can you learn most lessons after just losing a little health?
When you DO die, is there a huge delay before you can try again, drawing out the feedback loop unnecessarily, slowing your learning process, and amping up your frustration level?
Someone already said most of the challenges are of the strategic kind, not the mechanical dexterity kind. That's good. I don't like struggling while the game keeps punishing me for being a little slow at the controls.
mspencer on
MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
I'm still stuck on what I'm guessing is 1-1. I just can't do it. Maybe this isn't the game for me
Alright, I guess I'll paraphrase it for anyone who didn't get the deluxe version. This is a trick to, with some danger, generate about 2.5k souls every 5-10 minutes in 1-1. It's not quite easy enough to be called an exploit - there are probably better farming spots later on - but if you want to get a leg up early, and don't mind a little tedium, it can be useful.
First, clear the entire level 1-1, including hitting the levers to unlock secret passages. Beating the boss isn't necessary.
Now, start a fresh copy of the level. Fight (or run) forward until right before the gate to the boss. Turn left, heading up the stairs and through the now-open shortcut. Take note of the glowing chasm around the corner to your left (and clear out the enemies guarding it if you're paranoid); that's your backup plan.
Fight your way up the stairs, clearing all the torch-bearing monsters. Near the top of the stairway, you'll find two barrels blocking your path: DO NOT destroy them, but rather note how they can be safely circumnavigated.
Fight your way across the parapet. This will include killing a blue-eyes knight, so be prepared. I recommend a parry-counter with a shield (press L2 right before he attacks, then R1 to counter) and/or enchant weapon to finish him quickly.
At the end of the parapet, enter the door and turn left. There is a red-eyes knight at the end of the corridor (and probably plenty of warning runes and bloodstains). The key thing to remember about this guy is that he is rape in plate. He can two-shot armored characters, and will do so in half a second given a chance. Remove your thief's ring if equipped. Get close enough to activate him, then turn and run (not sprint, it's not necessary) away.
Lure him across the parapet and back to the two barrels in the stairway. If you run too quickly, he'll get bored and walk away, but you can get him angry again by getting close. Once at the barrels, stand on the opposite side of the walkway diagonally away from the barrels, behind the little protective barrier.
Ideally, the knight will stop at the barrels, slash one, then turn to face you directly and fall off the cliff. Wait for the splat and your 2k souls, then go loot the corpse for a few high-level healing herbs. Success! Rinse and repeat.
Once in a while, though, he's uncooperative. This is where things get a bit tricky. DO NOT try to get past him up the stairs - he will obliterate you. Instead, try to lead him down the stairs and around the corner to the glowing hole, where he will be fairly easy to lure in to his doom. Often, he'll end up killing himself just trying to get to the ground level. You might need to drop down to a lower stairway yourself to get below him. Note that if you have to use plan B, you can't loot the corpse.
It's not as difficult or complicated as this wall of text might make it seem; rather, I just figured I'd be thorough. My brother isn't a fan of this plan, preferring instead to just repeatedly kill the two blue-eyes knights near the 1-3 spawn point, but the high-level loot table on the red-eyes makes it my personal choice.
Its a challenge is what it is. 1 Black Phantom with 50-75% of the HP of a living player vs 1 living player and possibly 1 or 2 Blue Phantoms.
One tactic is to rush past the player as quick as possible or somehow get ahead of them and get behind some nasty monsters. The enemies will not attack you so you can set up some nasty ambushes with the natives to really decimate people.
Got my shit rocked by this asshole blue knight using his sword two-handed in 1-1. Then died again before I got back..
So I rerolled after dying a bunch.
Anyway, I tried parrying and I don't know if I misstimed or it failed but that just screws me over and blocking his attacks throws me off balance as well. Maybe next time I get there I'll try to roll around.
I'm still stuck on what I'm guessing is 1-1. I just can't do it. Maybe this isn't the game for me
What class you're using and what part you're getting stuck on. Early on, the class differences matter a bit so some playstyles may not be for you.
It really is about a kind of "clicking" and then understanding what to do. First time I went through 1-1, I went really cautiously and would think I would die to anything. 2nd and 3rd run throughs (from deleting my profile twice) took less than an hour each, including doing the tutorial.
What's the learning and feedback style like for this game? Or what's the balance of styles like?
I'm going to try and answer your question as best I can. First, let me preface this description by noting that I have a very short attention span and an even shorter fuse, and yet I've yet to feel frustrated or cheated. So for this hothead at least, I've always felt that my mistakes were my own.
Now, difficulty. For the most part, the challenges in Demon's Souls are less "difficult" in a Ninja Gaiden 2 sort of way (*shudder*), and more punishment for impatience. I've seen reviewers claim that the game rewards memorization - leading me to almost skip the game entirely, as I hate bullet-hell sorts of games - but that's actually an oversimplification. A good memory can help you anticipate threats later on, but these threats are almost never entirely unannounced or unsurvivable.
For example, you might be traveling down a very narrow corridor. At the end of the path is a turn to the right. Standing right out of view there's a monster with a powerful axe held high, waiting for your unwary skull to present itself and get chopped in half. A player with the wrong mindset would rush forward despite an unfilled life bar, get his head opened, curse the game in frustration and quit. A player who will succeed in Demon's Souls looks forward, recognizes a point of obvious possible danger, switches to a stabbing weapon that can be used in such close confines, and proceeds slowly and with shield raised. The latter player will most likely survive the encounter entirely unscathed - medium-sized shields absorb 100% of damage - and though he'll remember the attack next time, that memory was never necessary to avoid death.
Somewhat less "fair," in the traditional sense, are the traps in the scenery. The game is filled with collapsing platforms, fiery pits, high drops with no handholds, enemies in high places with explosives and arrows, and all sorts of constantly varied assaults. Indeed, while learning when and where you'll be attacked with X or Y will help avoid such traps, learning to recognize telltale signs of a specific trap - a hallmark of these sorts of games, usually - is of little use: the levels are varied and brutal enough that you'll rarely see the same trick attempted twice.
But are they frustrating? No, for two reasons (and a third I'll cover below). One, failure to all but the most painfully obvious traps is rarely fatal for a well-healed (i.e. well-prepared) and cautious character. Sure, a platform might collapse, but it will prefer to send you into a group of enemies rather than a pit of lava. You are punished but not insta-killed, and so long as you stay near full health, many fuckups are perfectly survivable. Second, most traps announce themselves in some subtle way. A falling bridge will look rickety and rotted on closer inspection. An archer will be painfully obvious if you just look up. A bin filled with steel balls of crushing death would have been plain as day if you'd took the time to look around before following the path. Not that you'll see them all, mind you - but usually when I return to the scene of a particularly bad mistake, I can sit back, look at the surroundings, and be forced to accept that it was perfectly avoidable with a bit more caution: that goes far to prevent frustration. It was MY mistake, not the developers.
Now, let's discuss death itself, and its much-discussed penalties. Yes, if you die, all the souls you're carrying disappear. There's no way to store souls safely; they must be spent or lost, though it's rarely difficult to find something to buy (stat upgrades being the de facto choice, unless you're saving up for something big). But items, including items that give the player souls when used, are permanent, as are any changes you make to the level. So while death might mean starting a level from the beginning with your souls gone, you keep all the items from creatures and all the hidden loot in the level, and any switch you've hit is still flipped. Often, progressing into levels allows you to backtrack to the start, opening a shortcut to make getting back after death a remarkably quick affair.
What's more, if you can get back to your corpse (or near where you fell for falling deaths), you can regain the lost souls. But note this example: you fight to the end of a level and generate 2k souls. You die to a stupid mistake (slipped off a ledge, say). You have to fight your way back, though this time it's much faster thanks to prior knowledge of passages and ambushes. Since you killed everything on the way, you now have 2k souls again, and picking up your corpse ups your total to 4k! So while death can suck, if you succeed in nothing more complex than not dying to the same thing twice, you can end up doubling your rewards. Death itself can end up paying off.
Last, but not least, is the online component. All of the above is true whether you're logged in or not, but connecting to the server adds the ability to make notes on the ground and read notes made by others. Now, occasionally you get an asshole who puts "valuable treasure ahead" next to a lava pit (I know, I know, I figured maybe it did the damage slowly enough to run across), but the rating system means truly handy or valid comments are easier to spot and last longer. So it's not just you who has to be cautious, but you have the community hivemind helping you: sure you might not spot the hidden spellcaster, but another player almost certainly did, and hopefully he stopped to note it. It acts as sort of a challenge surge protector: in the rare case that you find a trap or surprise attack that hasn't had a warning posted, it's actually sort of exciting, as it means you can be the one to mark it (and reap the health bonuses when you're rated up).
I'm not certain I've addressed your questions directly, and I don't want to give you the idea that the game is easy. I think a lot of the reason I've so enjoyed Demon's Souls is because I was told, time and time again, that it was punishingly hard - and so I went into it with infinite trepidation and caution, which turned out to be exactly the right mindset. So while I might say that the reviews paint a grislier picture than is true, that doesn't mean their warnings should be thrown to the wind. Careful, methodical progress and an eye for danger will always be rewarded in Demon's Souls, and that suits me just fine.
I fucking love this game. Probably ran through 1-1 about 6 times earlier today and each and every time I learned a little more and got a little farther. I can see how this wouldn't be for everyone but it seems that for the people that take the time to learn it, the sense of accomplishment will be huge. Going to jump back in later tonight and hopefully topple that last boss that killed me in 1-shot earlier
I'm a wanderer and on the descending stairwell with the 5+ firesword zombies. Or the blue knight right before it
I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but my first character was a Wanderer and I died in 1-1 a ridiculous number of times. Went back, made a Royal (a class I feel I'm better at playing) and found 1-1 a lot easier to manage.
Thank you so much for that. That's exactly what I was looking for.
I must get this game. No question.
mspencer on
MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
Dammit! I saved up a bunch of souls and bought a miracle and some spells. Only to find out I can't actually cast them because I don't have a wand or whatever.
What's the deal with that gate that's down the stairs to the left at the start of 1-1? I explored everywhere I could think of and still didn't find a way in. I did get the telescope from the guy though. Afterward he was walking around fighting random monsters and I accidentally hit him while trying to save him and he started glowing. Did I mess something up?
I'm a wanderer and on the descending stairwell with the 5+ firesword zombies. Or the blue knight right before it
I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but my first character was a Wanderer and I died in 1-1 a ridiculous number of times. Went back, made a Royal (a class I feel I'm better at playing) and found 1-1 a lot easier to manage.
agreed. i absolutely couldn't beat 1-1 with a wanderer, and when i realized after a couple of hours i'd made no progress whatsoever, i thought fuck it, let's try another class. i got through with a hunter in the first couple of tries
I'm a wanderer and on the descending stairwell with the 5+ firesword zombies. Or the blue knight right before it
I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but my first character was a Wanderer and I died in 1-1 a ridiculous number of times. Went back, made a Royal (a class I feel I'm better at playing) and found 1-1 a lot easier to manage.
agreed. i absolutely couldn't beat 1-1 with a wanderer, and when i realized after a couple of hours i'd made no progress whatsoever, i thought fuck it, let's try another class. i got through with a hunter in the first couple of tries
Wanderer may not be the class for you (pyro) then. Try Royalty. Having a ranged attack and MP regen ring makes 1-1 a lot easier. Especially since you can pretty much 1-shot those fire guys and 2-4 shot the blue guy while backing away.
This game is so great. I discovered the absolute joy of Black Phantoms. Whether they're there to break up the monotony, or I'm trying to stalk someone down, this part of the game is just so much fun.
I had to stop invading eventually though because I was running low on herbs . Also, everyone underestimates the range on two handed falchion strong attack. Everyone
Well my buddy and I just spent about 10 minutes coordinating a meet up for co-op; less than 3 minutes in I get killed by a dragon and returned to my world.
Go to 4-1, get the long compound bow, upgrade it a few times, shoot him twice per pass, probably only take 5 minutes.
I'm in 4-1, and I've gotten a lot of good gear, but no bow yet. Since I'm here specifically to get a bow to take down the dragon, could you point me in the right direction? I managed to stumble onto a secret way to get to the toungue-thing from near the beginning, but aside from a couple cool rings, no bow.
If you want something more substantial, I posted a red knight farming guide behind a spoiler a page or two back.
I tried luring him to the shortcut stairwell..but I didn't have much luck. I guess I'll have to get more patience because it was frustrating O_o Of course fear controlled a lot of how risky I was - so maybe I have to be a bit riskier.
Go to 4-1, get the long compound bow, upgrade it a few times, shoot him twice per pass, probably only take 5 minutes.
I'm in 4-1, and I've gotten a lot of good gear, but no bow yet. Since I'm here specifically to get a bow to take down the dragon, could you point me in the right direction? I managed to stumble onto a secret way to get to the toungue-thing from near the beginning, but aside from a couple cool rings, no bow.
The bow is actually pretty early right after the first fog (before the Vanguard), go left, go up, you'll see an archer shooting at you from across. The bow is on the corpse next to him.
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Woohoo, 3-2 and 4-1 beat, with Kaseius' expert magical marksmanship. Sorry the game decided to rape you over and over afterward on 4-2
Defeated my first Phantom today as well. Was not fully prepared for it, but with a little bit of strategic withdrawing and re-engaging, I was able to wear him down. Having a +6 Uchigatana probably didn't hurt either ;-)
Woohoo, 3-2 and 4-1 beat, with Kaseius' expert magical marksmanship. Sorry the game decided to rape you over and over afterward on 4-2
Defeated my first Phantom today as well. Was not fully prepared for it, but with a little bit of strategic withdrawing and re-engaging, I was able to wear him down. Having a +6 Uchigatana probably didn't hurt either ;-)
Where is this upgrade list you were talking about? I think I might start a new character.. again. Maybe.
Also, does invading just get your body back if you kill them? Seems kinda pointless other than to be a dick I guess!
Kaseius on
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Woohoo, 3-2 and 4-1 beat, with Kaseius' expert magical marksmanship. Sorry the game decided to rape you over and over afterward on 4-2
Defeated my first Phantom today as well. Was not fully prepared for it, but with a little bit of strategic withdrawing and re-engaging, I was able to wear him down. Having a +6 Uchigatana probably didn't hurt either ;-)
Where is this upgrade list you were talking about? I think I might start a new character.. again. Maybe.
Also, does invading just get your body back if you kill them? Seems kinda pointless other than to be a dick I guess!
I think you get some or all of the souls they were carrying as well, though don't quote me on that. I know I got some souls for killing that phantom.
Here's the list of some of the swords available in the game: http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/swords
click on a particular sword to see its upgrade path and what it takes to get there (its not complete, but most of the upgrades are very similar).
This is the Sword I've been rockin for a while now. Love the speed and added bleed effect. It's now at +7, should have it to +10 as soon as I can find a pure sharpstone
Uchigatana
Go to 4-1, get the long compound bow, upgrade it a few times, shoot him twice per pass, probably only take 5 minutes.
I'm in 4-1, and I've gotten a lot of good gear, but no bow yet. Since I'm here specifically to get a bow to take down the dragon, could you point me in the right direction? I managed to stumble onto a secret way to get to the toungue-thing from near the beginning, but aside from a couple cool rings, no bow.
The bow is actually pretty early right after the first fog (before the Vanguard), go left, go up, you'll see an archer shooting at you from across. The bow is on the corpse next to him.
Argh there it is - and like literally 30 seconds after I'd found a shop and bought a non-compound long bow. Oh well, I had no illusions about managing to carry these souls out of here anyway.
Flamelurker just murdered me and two blue guys. I got him lower by myself. I am pretty sure I could kill him easily with arrows over a long period of time but the stupid targeting system inevitably puts a pillar in my face and I miss a dodge since I can't see him.
I tried helping people a couple times to see if they have a good strat I can copy but they just instantly died 3 times in a row. Co-op, is cool. I'd love a party based game in this style.
Dammit! I saved up a bunch of souls and bought a miracle and some spells. Only to find out I can't actually cast them because I don't have a wand or whatever.
What's the deal with that gate that's down the stairs to the left at the start of 1-1? I explored everywhere I could think of and still didn't find a way in. I did get the telescope from the guy though. Afterward he was walking around fighting random monsters and I accidentally hit him while trying to save him and he started glowing. Did I mess something up?
There is the starting catalyst for magic spells on top of the first or second tower along the dragon bridge in 1-2. Also the talasmin of god can be found in the landing before the first fog gate in 4-1.
Malechai on
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Dammit! I saved up a bunch of souls and bought a miracle and some spells. Only to find out I can't actually cast them because I don't have a wand or whatever.
What's the deal with that gate that's down the stairs to the left at the start of 1-1? I explored everywhere I could think of and still didn't find a way in. I did get the telescope from the guy though. Afterward he was walking around fighting random monsters and I accidentally hit him while trying to save him and he started glowing. Did I mess something up?
There is the starting catalyst for magic spells on top of the first or second tower along the dragon bridge in 1-2. Also the talasmin of god can be found in the landing before the first fog gate in 4-1.
There's also a better catalyst near the end of 3-1, but that requires fighting the Mindflayers, which you may or may not be ready to do. (they're not that hard really, honest)
Flamelurker just murdered me and two blue guys. I got him lower by myself. I am pretty sure I could kill him easily with arrows over a long period of time but the stupid targeting system inevitably puts a pillar in my face and I miss a dodge since I can't see him.
I tried helping people a couple times to see if they have a good strat I can copy but they just instantly died 3 times in a row. Co-op, is cool. I'd love a party based game in this style.
edit: oh yeah how do I make my guy emote?
Holding down the x button will bring up the emote menu. You may want to remember important ones and use the six axis functions for them. Like holding x and moving the controller to the left will make someone bow.
spider boss was damned easy. but maybe my fire resist shield helped.
man I need some new armor but I can't find anything better than my temple knight armor. something light would be nice too.. most of my backpack is taken up by my damned armor
So I just found a big pissed off ninja with 2 katanas and rather striking red eyes in 4-1. I used a soul fragment on him, he ran screaming the wrong way, and I stole a Crecent Falchion +1. It APPEARS weaker but has like 82 Magic Attack.
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I was thinking maybe a lightly armored guy with a Baby Nail to do plague (because who keeps plague curing items on their quick-item bar) and/or a Scraping spear to screw up their armor. As well as using Thief's Ring and/or the Hide spell to try to get the drop on people.
I have a feeling Black Phantoming is nothing but frustration, but I've learned a bit from the few I've fought so far. Namely "don't just rush in", bide your time and wait for them to lower their guard, of course, if they're smart enough to hunt you down...
I want to try co-op but I'm kind of scared of fucking things up and losing all my stuff, or getting someone else killed.
Go to 4-1, get the long compound bow, upgrade it a few times, shoot him twice per pass, probably only take 5 minutes.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
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Same here. I'm sure there's a lot of blood spots at the front of the palace that are me. Eventually I'll slowly start to progress. I hope.
What's the learning and feedback style like for this game? Or what's the balance of styles like?
Here's what I mean:
Sometimes a game will show you a visual clue and challenge you to recognize the clue and project that knowledge onto the game. For example, "here's a tripwire and some spiky logs suspended overhead. You may have never seen a tripwire in this game before, but you should have recognized it. I bet you'll remember to look for tripwires after you respawn!" The natural and logical constraints of the objects they show you imply certain gameplay behavior, and it's assumed you'll go slow and be observant and think about what you're seeing. "Maybe that's just for looks or maybe it's really a trap, but I'm taking no chances."
(Are there a great number of challenges like that in this game?)
All games are in some capacity about trying something, eventually failing to some extent, learning from your failure, repeating trial and error several times, and eventually learning well enough that you start to succeed. When you encounter a new challenge and you flail about and try to learn what you're missing, is the failure-stimulus nearly always death and respawning, or if you're careful can you learn most lessons after just losing a little health?
When you DO die, is there a huge delay before you can try again, drawing out the feedback loop unnecessarily, slowing your learning process, and amping up your frustration level?
Someone already said most of the challenges are of the strategic kind, not the mechanical dexterity kind. That's good. I don't like struggling while the game keeps punishing me for being a little slow at the controls.
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
Alright, I guess I'll paraphrase it for anyone who didn't get the deluxe version. This is a trick to, with some danger, generate about 2.5k souls every 5-10 minutes in 1-1. It's not quite easy enough to be called an exploit - there are probably better farming spots later on - but if you want to get a leg up early, and don't mind a little tedium, it can be useful.
Now, start a fresh copy of the level. Fight (or run) forward until right before the gate to the boss. Turn left, heading up the stairs and through the now-open shortcut. Take note of the glowing chasm around the corner to your left (and clear out the enemies guarding it if you're paranoid); that's your backup plan.
Fight your way up the stairs, clearing all the torch-bearing monsters. Near the top of the stairway, you'll find two barrels blocking your path: DO NOT destroy them, but rather note how they can be safely circumnavigated.
Fight your way across the parapet. This will include killing a blue-eyes knight, so be prepared. I recommend a parry-counter with a shield (press L2 right before he attacks, then R1 to counter) and/or enchant weapon to finish him quickly.
At the end of the parapet, enter the door and turn left. There is a red-eyes knight at the end of the corridor (and probably plenty of warning runes and bloodstains). The key thing to remember about this guy is that he is rape in plate. He can two-shot armored characters, and will do so in half a second given a chance. Remove your thief's ring if equipped. Get close enough to activate him, then turn and run (not sprint, it's not necessary) away.
Lure him across the parapet and back to the two barrels in the stairway. If you run too quickly, he'll get bored and walk away, but you can get him angry again by getting close. Once at the barrels, stand on the opposite side of the walkway diagonally away from the barrels, behind the little protective barrier.
Ideally, the knight will stop at the barrels, slash one, then turn to face you directly and fall off the cliff. Wait for the splat and your 2k souls, then go loot the corpse for a few high-level healing herbs. Success! Rinse and repeat.
Once in a while, though, he's uncooperative. This is where things get a bit tricky. DO NOT try to get past him up the stairs - he will obliterate you. Instead, try to lead him down the stairs and around the corner to the glowing hole, where he will be fairly easy to lure in to his doom. Often, he'll end up killing himself just trying to get to the ground level. You might need to drop down to a lower stairway yourself to get below him. Note that if you have to use plan B, you can't loot the corpse.
It's not as difficult or complicated as this wall of text might make it seem; rather, I just figured I'd be thorough. My brother isn't a fan of this plan, preferring instead to just repeatedly kill the two blue-eyes knights near the 1-3 spawn point, but the high-level loot table on the red-eyes makes it my personal choice.
Happy hunting!
One tactic is to rush past the player as quick as possible or somehow get ahead of them and get behind some nasty monsters. The enemies will not attack you so you can set up some nasty ambushes with the natives to really decimate people.
So I rerolled after dying a bunch.
Anyway, I tried parrying and I don't know if I misstimed or it failed but that just screws me over and blocking his attacks throws me off balance as well. Maybe next time I get there I'll try to roll around.
What class you're using and what part you're getting stuck on. Early on, the class differences matter a bit so some playstyles may not be for you.
It really is about a kind of "clicking" and then understanding what to do. First time I went through 1-1, I went really cautiously and would think I would die to anything. 2nd and 3rd run throughs (from deleting my profile twice) took less than an hour each, including doing the tutorial.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
Take it slow. Always block unless you are attacking, even when you are wandering around.
Also, maybe try a different starting class.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
I'm going to try and answer your question as best I can. First, let me preface this description by noting that I have a very short attention span and an even shorter fuse, and yet I've yet to feel frustrated or cheated. So for this hothead at least, I've always felt that my mistakes were my own.
Now, difficulty. For the most part, the challenges in Demon's Souls are less "difficult" in a Ninja Gaiden 2 sort of way (*shudder*), and more punishment for impatience. I've seen reviewers claim that the game rewards memorization - leading me to almost skip the game entirely, as I hate bullet-hell sorts of games - but that's actually an oversimplification. A good memory can help you anticipate threats later on, but these threats are almost never entirely unannounced or unsurvivable.
For example, you might be traveling down a very narrow corridor. At the end of the path is a turn to the right. Standing right out of view there's a monster with a powerful axe held high, waiting for your unwary skull to present itself and get chopped in half. A player with the wrong mindset would rush forward despite an unfilled life bar, get his head opened, curse the game in frustration and quit. A player who will succeed in Demon's Souls looks forward, recognizes a point of obvious possible danger, switches to a stabbing weapon that can be used in such close confines, and proceeds slowly and with shield raised. The latter player will most likely survive the encounter entirely unscathed - medium-sized shields absorb 100% of damage - and though he'll remember the attack next time, that memory was never necessary to avoid death.
Somewhat less "fair," in the traditional sense, are the traps in the scenery. The game is filled with collapsing platforms, fiery pits, high drops with no handholds, enemies in high places with explosives and arrows, and all sorts of constantly varied assaults. Indeed, while learning when and where you'll be attacked with X or Y will help avoid such traps, learning to recognize telltale signs of a specific trap - a hallmark of these sorts of games, usually - is of little use: the levels are varied and brutal enough that you'll rarely see the same trick attempted twice.
But are they frustrating? No, for two reasons (and a third I'll cover below). One, failure to all but the most painfully obvious traps is rarely fatal for a well-healed (i.e. well-prepared) and cautious character. Sure, a platform might collapse, but it will prefer to send you into a group of enemies rather than a pit of lava. You are punished but not insta-killed, and so long as you stay near full health, many fuckups are perfectly survivable. Second, most traps announce themselves in some subtle way. A falling bridge will look rickety and rotted on closer inspection. An archer will be painfully obvious if you just look up. A bin filled with steel balls of crushing death would have been plain as day if you'd took the time to look around before following the path. Not that you'll see them all, mind you - but usually when I return to the scene of a particularly bad mistake, I can sit back, look at the surroundings, and be forced to accept that it was perfectly avoidable with a bit more caution: that goes far to prevent frustration. It was MY mistake, not the developers.
Now, let's discuss death itself, and its much-discussed penalties. Yes, if you die, all the souls you're carrying disappear. There's no way to store souls safely; they must be spent or lost, though it's rarely difficult to find something to buy (stat upgrades being the de facto choice, unless you're saving up for something big). But items, including items that give the player souls when used, are permanent, as are any changes you make to the level. So while death might mean starting a level from the beginning with your souls gone, you keep all the items from creatures and all the hidden loot in the level, and any switch you've hit is still flipped. Often, progressing into levels allows you to backtrack to the start, opening a shortcut to make getting back after death a remarkably quick affair.
What's more, if you can get back to your corpse (or near where you fell for falling deaths), you can regain the lost souls. But note this example: you fight to the end of a level and generate 2k souls. You die to a stupid mistake (slipped off a ledge, say). You have to fight your way back, though this time it's much faster thanks to prior knowledge of passages and ambushes. Since you killed everything on the way, you now have 2k souls again, and picking up your corpse ups your total to 4k! So while death can suck, if you succeed in nothing more complex than not dying to the same thing twice, you can end up doubling your rewards. Death itself can end up paying off.
Last, but not least, is the online component. All of the above is true whether you're logged in or not, but connecting to the server adds the ability to make notes on the ground and read notes made by others. Now, occasionally you get an asshole who puts "valuable treasure ahead" next to a lava pit (I know, I know, I figured maybe it did the damage slowly enough to run across), but the rating system means truly handy or valid comments are easier to spot and last longer. So it's not just you who has to be cautious, but you have the community hivemind helping you: sure you might not spot the hidden spellcaster, but another player almost certainly did, and hopefully he stopped to note it. It acts as sort of a challenge surge protector: in the rare case that you find a trap or surprise attack that hasn't had a warning posted, it's actually sort of exciting, as it means you can be the one to mark it (and reap the health bonuses when you're rated up).
I'm not certain I've addressed your questions directly, and I don't want to give you the idea that the game is easy. I think a lot of the reason I've so enjoyed Demon's Souls is because I was told, time and time again, that it was punishingly hard - and so I went into it with infinite trepidation and caution, which turned out to be exactly the right mindset. So while I might say that the reviews paint a grislier picture than is true, that doesn't mean their warnings should be thrown to the wind. Careful, methodical progress and an eye for danger will always be rewarded in Demon's Souls, and that suits me just fine.
I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but my first character was a Wanderer and I died in 1-1 a ridiculous number of times. Went back, made a Royal (a class I feel I'm better at playing) and found 1-1 a lot easier to manage.
I must get this game. No question.
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What's the deal with that gate that's down the stairs to the left at the start of 1-1? I explored everywhere I could think of and still didn't find a way in. I did get the telescope from the guy though. Afterward he was walking around fighting random monsters and I accidentally hit him while trying to save him and he started glowing. Did I mess something up?
agreed. i absolutely couldn't beat 1-1 with a wanderer, and when i realized after a couple of hours i'd made no progress whatsoever, i thought fuck it, let's try another class. i got through with a hunter in the first couple of tries
Wanderer may not be the class for you (pyro) then. Try Royalty. Having a ranged attack and MP regen ring makes 1-1 a lot easier. Especially since you can pretty much 1-shot those fire guys and 2-4 shot the blue guy while backing away.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
I had to stop invading eventually though because I was running low on herbs
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
Skip it till you get the mausoleum key and some real demons under your belt. The answer will be clear at that point.
If you mean the one in 1-1, a hint: he can't fly.
If you want something more substantial, I posted a red knight farming guide behind a spoiler a page or two back.
I'm in 4-1, and I've gotten a lot of good gear, but no bow yet. Since I'm here specifically to get a bow to take down the dragon, could you point me in the right direction? I managed to stumble onto a secret way to get to the toungue-thing from near the beginning, but aside from a couple cool rings, no bow.
yeah I may still need some power..
I tried luring him to the shortcut stairwell..but I didn't have much luck. I guess I'll have to get more patience because it was frustrating O_o Of course fear controlled a lot of how risky I was - so maybe I have to be a bit riskier.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
Defeated my first Phantom today as well. Was not fully prepared for it, but with a little bit of strategic withdrawing and re-engaging, I was able to wear him down. Having a +6 Uchigatana probably didn't hurt either ;-)
Where is this upgrade list you were talking about? I think I might start a new character.. again. Maybe.
Also, does invading just get your body back if you kill them? Seems kinda pointless other than to be a dick I guess!
I think you get some or all of the souls they were carrying as well, though don't quote me on that. I know I got some souls for killing that phantom.
Here's the list of some of the swords available in the game:
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/swords
click on a particular sword to see its upgrade path and what it takes to get there (its not complete, but most of the upgrades are very similar).
This is the Sword I've been rockin for a while now. Love the speed and added bleed effect. It's now at +7, should have it to +10 as soon as I can find a pure sharpstone
Uchigatana
Argh there it is - and like literally 30 seconds after I'd found a shop and bought a non-compound long bow. Oh well, I had no illusions about managing to carry these souls out of here anyway.
Thanks!
I tried helping people a couple times to see if they have a good strat I can copy but they just instantly died 3 times in a row. Co-op, is cool. I'd love a party based game in this style.
edit: oh yeah how do I make my guy emote?
There is the starting catalyst for magic spells on top of the first or second tower along the dragon bridge in 1-2. Also the talasmin of god can be found in the landing before the first fog gate in 4-1.
There's also a better catalyst near the end of 3-1, but that requires fighting the Mindflayers, which you may or may not be ready to do. (they're not that hard really, honest)
Holding down the x button will bring up the emote menu. You may want to remember important ones and use the six axis functions for them. Like holding x and moving the controller to the left will make someone bow.
man I need some new armor but I can't find anything better than my temple knight armor. something light would be nice too.. most of my backpack is taken up by my damned armor
I'm a happy man.