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A Dog, a Mother, a Friend and Betrayal!

templewulftemplewulf The Team ChumpUSARegistered User regular
edited April 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
Hey all,

I don't usually post in H/A, but goddamn this is a fucked up situation. My mother-in-law lives by herself and is chronically ill. She has a pet dog who is pretty much the only person around to keep her company for most days.

Lately, her health took a turn for the worse - as it occasionally does - so she asked her friend to take care of the dog while she recovered. However, this time her injury was pretty bad, so she didn't know if she would recover enough to be able to take care of a dog on her own. The caveat is that if her friend - let's call her K - decides that she can't take care of the dog long-term that my mother-in-law would be involved in the process of finding him a permanent home.

The betrayal is that K took the dog and gave him away to one of her relatives without my mother-in-law's knowledge. We found out just last night, and the family has only had him for four days by the end of Wednesday. The father now says the kids are too attached to him and refuses to give the dog back.

What are our options? The dog has veterinary records and an RFID chip in my mother-in-law's name, if that helps.

Thanks

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    tech_huntertech_hunter More SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Domesticated animals are considered property. Someone was given temporary responsibility for caring for the animal and didn't have any right to surrender that property to a third party. If you have contacted the relative and they say they are not going to give the dog back, try calling again and tell them the dog is chipped and either they give it back or you will be informing the police. If they still wont give up the dog call the police and let them know since the dog is chipped it will be very easy to determine the owner.

    Now this will suck for the relatives kids your mom and they are the victims in this, but it is your moms dog and unless she lets it go and says they can have it then the above is the best course of action.

    tech_hunter on
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    AydrAydr Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, legally you should have no problems if it comes to that, but short of getting the cops involved I guess the only thing to do is keep talking with the friend and the family.

    But WTF? She gave someone else's dog away? What was she thinking?

    Aydr on
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    MetroidZoidMetroidZoid Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Man, sucky situation dude. Hope this gets better fast.

    Is it me or do K's relatives come off as only slightly doucey?

    "Uh, yeah this dog is really my ailing step-mothers, and she'd really like it back"

    "No, fuck you we've become attached to Flurry Jr. Esq, and you shan't have him!"

    MetroidZoid on
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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Point out to them that legally you can prove it is your mothers dog and it was not your friend's place to give it away and if nothing happens you will call the police.

    Blake T on
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    AydrAydr Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Man, sucky situation dude. Hope this gets better fast.

    Is it me or do K's relatives come off as only slightly doucey?

    "Uh, yeah this dog is really my ailing step-mothers, and she'd really like it back"

    "No, fuck you we've become attached to Flurry Jr. Esq, and you shan't have him!"

    Yeah, it's just you. Well, at least the slightly part.

    Aydr on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Thanks for all your support, guys. I feel bad that we can't take the dog (apartment rules), but I feel doubly bad that she's not well enough to care for the dog on her own. My wife had to yell at the guy for half an hour before she gave up.

    Also, update: apparently my mother-in-law especially didn't want the dog to go to these relatives, because the kids' father is a notorious drunkard.

    Also, since my mother-in-law lives nearly an hour away from us, she has a state sponsored caretaker to get her to the doctor, pharmacy, grocery store, etc. That caretaker? K herself, who now is punishing my mother-in-law by withdrawing from the program.

    tech_hunter:
    I figured as much, but I didn't know if the vet records / chip would be enough to conclusively determine ownership. I appreciate your input.

    Aydr & MetroidZoid:
    Dude is a certified asswipe. He complains that his kids are too attached to the dog they've known for four days, and my wife tells him that her mother has had the dog for nearly two years. His response is "Well, I'm not going to disappoint my kids."

    K isn't much better. It's starting to sound like she's just telling everybody what they want to hear, and she's withdrawing her friendship from my mother-in-law now that she's been found out.

    templewulf on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    That is assholish...too bad they're family.

    Shawnasee on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Shawnasee wrote: »
    That is assholish...too bad they're family.

    Not ours, luckily. They're the relatives of her friend. Still, the friend is fucking her over too, so she's losing out on quite a lot.

    templewulf on
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    FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Call that horrible douchebag and tell him he can either dissapoint his kids, or you're calling the cops. That ought to solve it.

    Fandyien on
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    ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Also try to get K away from your mother, if she's petty enough to remove herself from the program and leave your mother helpless, god only knows what she'd do to your mother if you got the police involved and got the dog away from Mr.Drunkshit.

    Buttcleft on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Also try to get K away from your mother, if she's petty enough to remove herself from the program and leave your mother helpless, god only knows what she'd do to your mother if you got the police involved and got the dog away from Mr.Drunkshit.
    Luckily, K lives in the next town over from her. They don't have any regular contact with each other about town or anything. They just go out together for errands on Thursdays.

    I'm going to call my mother-in-law after work today to see what she wants to do. Last night, she indicated she didn't want to call the police about it, but I'll let her know what the options are.

    Thanks for all your support and well-wishing, everybody!

    templewulf on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Of course I would respect your mother-in-law's wishes, but if an hour of yelling didn't get the point across, I'm siding with the "give the dog back or I will be forced to contact the police" option. You can prove it's her dog and not theirs. Either they can hand it back over peacefully, or they can explain to a cop why keeping stolen property seemed like a good idea at the time.

    Forar on
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    Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    i hope your mother in law doesn't cave b/c she doesn't want to rock the boat, or whatever. yeah, pretty much your only option, legally speaking, is to get the police involved. More than likely, they want you to resolve this on your own. Also, tell that asshole to get his own damn dog.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
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    AlpineAlpine Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's a lucky thing the dog was RFID chipped, it'll make the process a lot easier for the police.

    Just remember to dial the non-emergency number, not 911.

    Alpine on
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    ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    templewulf wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Also try to get K away from your mother, if she's petty enough to remove herself from the program and leave your mother helpless, god only knows what she'd do to your mother if you got the police involved and got the dog away from Mr.Drunkshit.
    Luckily, K lives in the next town over from her. They don't have any regular contact with each other about town or anything. They just go out together for errands on Thursdays.

    I'm going to call my mother-in-law after work today to see what she wants to do. Last night, she indicated she didn't want to call the police about it, but I'll let her know what the options are.

    Thanks for all your support and well-wishing, everybody!

    You obviously know the people involved better than I do.

    but in my experiences if someone is petty/crazy enough to do something like this... then they are petty/crazy enough to drive an hour to do something terrible for crossing them :(

    Buttcleft on
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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I actually wouldn't even warn them you're calling the cops. From what you've said so far, it's possible they'd be such assholes as to go "Oh, whoops, the dog ran away, sorry" rather than give him back.

    Raiden333 on
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    xa52xa52 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    templewulf wrote: »
    His response is "Well, I'm not going to disappoint my kids."

    First of all, someone needs to inform this cuntrag drunk that the complete and total failure that is his life will, in the long run, be a much bigger disappointment to his kids than giving up a dog that doesn't belong to them after having it for 4 days.

    Second, I disagree with the people suggesting that you threaten to call the police. The extensive conversation with your wife was more than enough warning. Just call the police. He doesn't deserve another chance, and considering all the other fucked up shit he and K has done, I wouldn't give him an opportunity to potentially do something horrible and stupid before the cops get there.

    I would also suggest that you get the dog back even if it is against your MIL's wishes. You will definitely be improving this dog's life by removing it from that house. If Drunky McFailure gets what he wants by bullying your wife and elderly MIL, the world will be a worse place. Maybe one of you could stay with your MIL for a few days- long enough for the state to assign another caretaker, or find a more deserving family for the dog.

    xa52 on
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    SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's kind of weird. Is your mom able to care for the dog currently? Is it going to need placement for care constantly until one day it needs to find another home?

    Bouncing back and forth between homes can be very stressful for animals, and honestly it doesn't sound like this is a one time thing, but a thing likely to re-occur with longer and longer periods of alternative caretaking. What's nice? What's healthy? Consider that a decision may need to be made regarding the long term.

    Im not saying these people aren't being underhanded; K had no right to give something away that wasn't hers, and they have no right to keep it. In the long term though, if you can't take care of it, your mom is a bit of a shut in, and there are no other preferred families availible for alternative care, and K obviously doesn't want to do it, then you a) yoink back the dog and give it to someone else, crushing toes and handing out fuckyousirgood'daysirs, b) vent your anger and accept the situation, c) find alternative people and a good temp care/visitation setup for your mom.

    It's a fairly short list, and it would likely be helpful to figure out which of these is pleasing, and which of these is possible.

    Sarcastro on
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    RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Holy fuck, this is one of those threads where I hope that guy gets what's coming to him.

    Please keep us updated, I would like to know if (when!) you've gotten the dog back. A.K.A. the property that is rightfully yours.

    And "friend" K is a bitch.

    Rikushix on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm at work waiting for authorization to set up a SQL database for a client, so I'm not able to respond to each of you individually. I wish I had the time to, because I appreciate all your contributions.

    In general, especially with regards to Sarcastro's comments, I don't think she'll be able to have the dog long-term. My wife and I urged her to get a cat instead, as it would be easier to care for, but she's pretty stubborn and has trouble accepting the extent of her illnesses. She's not even elderly, she just has some chronic illnesses that I won't get into here.

    I think the ideal situation is that we'll get the dog back, then she will find an adoptive family that is less...asstastic? If it weren't for them being jerks about the whole thing, I might even encourage giving the dog to a family friend / friend of a friend.

    Oops, Work authorization just came through, I'll post more later.

    templewulf on
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    delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    templewulf wrote: »

    The betrayal is that K took the dog and gave him away to one of her relatives without my mother-in-law's knowledge. We found out just last night, and the family has only had him for four days by the end of Wednesday. The father now says the kids are too attached to him and refuses to give the dog back.

    What are our options? The dog has veterinary records and an RFID chip in my mother-in-law's name, if that helps.

    Thanks

    Hope everything works out well temp,

    my initial thoughts, response and feelings when i read that line was: "Fuck that. That's MY dog". That should be a lesson of selflessness for the kids. And the dog was never K's to give up and as such, it's K's responsibility to bring the world shattering news that the kids can't keep the dog.

    delphinus on
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    DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    I actually wouldn't even warn them you're calling the cops. From what you've said so far, it's possible they'd be such assholes as to go "Oh, whoops, the dog ran away, sorry" rather than give him back.

    This. This guy is obviously being a dickbag just for the sake of being a dickbag; he knows his kids aren't really attached to the dog yet. Don't give him any time to prepare if you decide to get the police involved or in all likelihood he will find a way out of it.

    It's fortunate that the dog's got the RFID chip, otherwise you wouldn't have a chance at getting it back.

    Duffel on
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    SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, don't give him any warning. RFID chips are usually in the dog/cat's ear, right? I wouldn't put it past this guy at all to cut the ear off or something else horrible.

    Smasher on
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    InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Smasher wrote: »
    Yeah, don't give him any warning. RFID chips are usually in the dog/cat's ear, right? I wouldn't put it past this guy at all to cut the ear off or something else horrible.

    They installed it in the back of my dog's neck, which from talking to my family members with dogs seems to be the norm.

    Invisible on
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    underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    Man, have a lawyer draft up a threatening letter and send it to the douche who was given the dog. It will probably work. Usually does. Ask my ex-wife.

    underdonk on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Invisible wrote: »
    Smasher wrote: »
    Yeah, don't give him any warning. RFID chips are usually in the dog/cat's ear, right? I wouldn't put it past this guy at all to cut the ear off or something else horrible.

    They installed it in the back of my dog's neck, which from talking to my family members with dogs seems to be the norm.

    That's how they did it with our cats and my mother-in-law's dog as well.

    Update:
    I just talked to my wife on my short break, and it looks like the guy is now offering to buy her a new dog so he can keep the dog in question. From the sounds of things, she's not going to call the cops, but she also refuses to accept his offer. I'm not sure what she's thinking, but I just don't want him to think he can get away with this.

    templewulf on
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    InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    templewulf wrote: »
    Invisible wrote: »
    Smasher wrote: »
    Yeah, don't give him any warning. RFID chips are usually in the dog/cat's ear, right? I wouldn't put it past this guy at all to cut the ear off or something else horrible.

    They installed it in the back of my dog's neck, which from talking to my family members with dogs seems to be the norm.

    That's how they did it with our cats and my mother-in-law's dog as well.

    Update:
    I just talked to my wife on my short break, and it looks like the guy is now offering to buy her a new dog so he can keep the dog in question. From the sounds of things, she's not going to call the cops, but she also refuses to accept his offer. I'm not sure what she's thinking, but I just don't want him to think he can get away with this.

    Why wouldn't he just buy a new dog for his kids and give her dog back? I don't doubt the kids are attached, but it's not like adults can't be attached to pets too, and 2 years > 4 days. Give the kids a puppy and they'll forget about the other dog.

    Invisible on
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    SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If I was a man occasionally in the poop, and my mother in law gave me a dog, and I made a Big Deal about it, and my kids gave me a look that said 'You done good, Pa', and they named it, and said they would take care of it forever, and then I found out that my mom/auntie whomever had jumped the gun like an unthinking numbskull, making me and mine look like asses, ya, I would probably offer to buy whomever another dog, because I would be tired of looking like an ass yet again to my family, and it would be worth quite a bit if I could just open my wallet a crack and make the whole thing go away.

    Sarcastro on
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    SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    What I'm saying is, it's probably not about the kids as much as it is about saving face. The OP isn't the only one getting boned here.

    Sarcastro on
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    CrashtardCrashtard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    This is completely ridiculous. Call that douchebag and tell him he either gives the dog back or the cops come pick it up from him. It's chipped, so it's not like he can hide it from anyone right?

    Crashtard on
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    hoodie13hoodie13 punch bro Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Crashtard wrote: »
    This is completely ridiculous. Call that douchebag and tell him he either gives the dog back or the cops come pick it up from him. It's chipped, so it's not like he can hide it from anyone right?

    Not quite how the chips work. If the dog gets lost, the pound will scan the dog in a full body scanner and get the info imbedded in the RFID, and contact the owner in the chip. Sadly, there is no lojack for dogs.

    Yet.

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    RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sarcastro wrote: »
    What I'm saying is, it's probably not about the kids as much as it is about saving face. The OP isn't the only one getting boned here.

    True, but the OP is getting boned based on the bad actions of a few people, whereas Mr. Father-figure here is boned because of his own previous malfeasances. Not taking responsibility for past wrongs and whatnot.

    Rikushix on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    get the cops involved asap. dispense with social conventions here, this is theft, pure, simple and clean cut. the true victims will end up being the kids who probably are going to be upset over losing the dog, and will grow up with all kinds of issues living with parents like those.

    Sam on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    hoodie13 wrote: »
    Crashtard wrote: »
    This is completely ridiculous. Call that douchebag and tell him he either gives the dog back or the cops come pick it up from him. It's chipped, so it's not like he can hide it from anyone right?

    Not quite how the chips work. If the dog gets lost, the pound will scan the dog in a full body scanner and get the info imbedded in the RFID, and contact the owner in the chip. Sadly, there is no lojack for dogs.

    Yet.

    if you file a case with the police department, and show owner's documentation (which should state distinguishing physical features, but im not sure) and establish at the very least the evidence that K was in contact with a little old lady and now said old lady doesn't have her dog and K's folks do, it will be treated as reasonable suspicion /probable cause like any other case of THEFT which is what this is.

    seriously, call the cops NOW. don't even bother trying to talk to them you never should have. People who give away your dog behind your back and/or are content to keep a stolen dog that they know the owner wants back can't be talked to.

    Every minute you spend not getting law enforcement involved affords these people more time to get the chip removed and implant their own.

    Sam on
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    RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sam wrote: »
    Every minute you spend not getting law enforcement involved affords these people more time to get the chip removed and implant their own.



    Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Rikushix on
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    psycojesterpsycojester Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Rikushix wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    Every minute you spend not getting law enforcement involved affords these people more time to get the chip removed and implant their own.



    Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Yeah because these people are dog-theft themed super villians. Also wtf? do you think there's some kind of illegal undergrounds vets running a dog chopshop?

    psycojester on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Rikushix wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    Every minute you spend not getting law enforcement involved affords these people more time to get the chip removed and implant their own.



    Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Yeah because these people are dog-theft themed super villians. Also wtf? do you think there's some kind of illegal undergrounds vets running a dog chopshop?

    it's certainly doable at a legit vet if you convince them it's a rescue dog you found malnourished on the street.

    They're not supervillains but they are basically criminals.

    Sam on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Sarcastro wrote: »
    What I'm saying is, it's probably not about the kids as much as it is about saving face. The OP isn't the only one getting boned here.

    I appreciate the perspective you're presenting here, but it's less "I'd really like to compensate you for this dog to keep my kids happy" than "I refuse to give you back your property". He's been pretty antagonistic towards my wife and her mother.

    At this point, I'm just pissed that he has such an overreaching sense of entitlement. I wasn't able to get ahold of my mother-in-law yesterday, but I think I can give her a call today. I'll post back with the resolution.

    templewulf on
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    DHS OdiumDHS Odium Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Call the cops yourself, go over your mother-in-laws head. She might not like it, but it's the right thing to do.

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    underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    templewulf wrote: »
    I appreciate the perspective you're presenting here, but it's less "I'd really like to compensate you for this dog to keep my kids happy" than "I refuse to give you back your property". He's been pretty antagonistic towards my wife and her mother.

    At this point, I'm just pissed that he has such an overreaching sense of entitlement. I wasn't able to get ahold of my mother-in-law yesterday, but I think I can give her a call today. I'll post back with the resolution.

    You could always pull a Tonya Harding on his bitch ass.

    underdonk on
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