Tubes, Stacks, and Heads

i n c u b u s

So I've been playing guitar for a good 7 years now and I've never upgraded past my dinky little 15w Fender practice amp. I'm WAY overdue for a new amp and I want to go big but not break the bank either. The fact is that I've never really had the need for anything more so I'd always invest my money in more or better guitars but now I'd like to get my hands on something that will allow me to play small shows and not get laughed at. I'm really interested in getting an entry level half stack but I know little to nothing about how they basically work (I even have trouble turning them on when I go to a Guitar Center let alone know what setting to put them to). I'm setting my limit to under $500 and I've been pretty intrigued by the Peavey Windsor All tube 100W Half stack. So I'd like some advice/help on 2 things: the basic operations of a head/cab and suggestions on what to buy.

Scrublet

If you're planning on buying new, your $500 budget is probably not going to be enough. Right off the bat, that Peavey you mentioned is $300-400, and you still need the half-stack to go with it. Now if you go used, obviously your options are going to be broader. But just a warning, with sound equipment you can always get screwed going used. I bought my Ampeg SVT-3 PRO used, and for two weeks it worked great. Then it started buzzing. Cost me almost $200 to find the problem...something about one of the preamp tubes generating a loop or something. YMMV obviously but just something to be aware of.

msh1283

You don't need a half stack unless you like the tone better than anything else. A 30 watt combo has more than enough volume for any situation. If the place is big enough that the amp's volume alone won't do it, it's big enough that they'll be running it through the PA and it won't matter anyways.

The only real advantage to having a half stack is that you're moving more air, which can result in a "bigger" sound sometimes. Your audience will most likely never be able to tell the difference.

A combo and a head/cab setup are the same components, just compartmentalized differently.

A head consists of a pre-amp and a power amp. The pre-amp takes the signal generated by the guitar and shapes it, according to your settings. The power amp takes that signal, amplifies it, and sends it to the speaker cabinet.

A combo works in the exact same way, except the entire rig is contained in one unit.

As for the operation of the amps, it depends on if you're looking at a solid state amp or a tube amp. If it's a solid state amp, you have an on switch and that's usually it.

If it's a tube amp, there is generally a standby switch as well. The standby switch turns the heaters for the tubes on, but doesn't allow any voltage to go to the other parts of the tubes. This allows them to warm up and become ready for use without running full power through them. Full power on cold tubes is bad for their life expectancy. You turn on the standby switch, let the amp warm up for ~2 minutes, then turn standby off and the amp on. This process can vary between amps. Mesa in particular does some screwy things with the labeling of standby and power switches.

$500 will get you a much better combo than it will a head and a cab.

Jimmy King

Like Scrublet said, $500 is really low for a new half stack, even entry level ones. In the group of people I talk to most about guitar stuff the Peavey Valveking is generally considered THE amp to get for an entry level tube amp. The 100W head alone runs a little over $500 at most places and then you need a cab.

Also, are you open to nice combo amps? You can save some money that way. Trust me, for a small gig, you don't need a 100W amp with a 4x12 cab. A 50W 2x12 is already fucking loud. Hell, I know (using the term loosely) a guy on a forum who gigged for awhile with a 20W Rev Jr and the 2 1x12 cabinets that go with it (I know, that didn't follow up the "combo amps" suggestion well, but whatever).

flatlinegraphics

$500 for a new tube anything is pretty much wishfull thinking.
used, your options open up a bit. just remember, that with a stack of any kind, full, half or quarter, the speaker cab(s) can end up influencing the sound as much as the head. ie, don't blow your budget on a head and then get the shittiest speakers you can.

ok, heads. new? not much of anything. used, peavey butchers(jcm900/marshall clones), sovtek mig50/100 (marshall clones, going up in value tho), peavey vtm50/120 (more mesa-like, used by kim thayil of soundgarden). upper 4-500 budget busters, 5150i/ii, jcm900.

speakers, avatarspeakers.com for new, a variety of stuff used.

combo amps, peavey classic 2x12, vox ac30cc (used).

alot of this list is kind of subjective, biased toward rock/metal tones. there are a bunch of fender 212s out there, i just don't know much about them.

but mostly, my typical music equipment advice stands: go in an play everything in your budget range, and ignore the logos on it. buy what sounds best to you. and remember that this is your first big amp, not necessarily your last. and if you invest in good used stuff, you will most likely get that money back out when you trade/sell it. new stuff depreciates faster than a new car.

i n c u b u s

Thanks for the advice so far, I am open to combo amps as well I guess I emphasized half stacks because everyone I know who gigs on a regular basis owns at least a half stack also I was very interested in this. I didn't know you can hook up a combo to a cab (god I must sound retarded)? I'm def open to any and all suggestions stack or combo here, my only problem is that local music store is run by nazi's who won't let you try before you buy and the only other music store with a big enough selection is about an hour away.

Typhoid Manny

You don't need to hook a combo up to a cab. A lot of tube cabs have little legs that let you tilt them back which makes the sound travel better, but a faster way is to just stick it on top of a folding chair or a couple of barstools.

You really don't need to worry about loudness.

this fucker right here

is pretty much the loudest amp there is that wasn't designed specifically to be unnecessarily loud

virgilsamms

Sounds like you want a valve combo at around 30-50W. It will be easily loud enough for small shows, and have the advantage that you can push it to get the sweet tones. With a 100W amp you'll probably have too much head room. So it's basically about the sound you want, these are my impressions from the one I've looked at:

Vox AC30: Vintage sound, beautiful tone, beautiful clean
Peavey: Great heavy distortion sounds, not so good clean
Mesa: Versatile, great distortion, good clean
Fender: Jangly, nice warm clean but weak overdrive.

I have a Mesa Rectoverb head & 2x12 cab which I love, but it's really down to the style you play and what you want out of it.

Typhoid Manny

I wouldn't say fenders have weak overdrive, it's just that you have to get them pretty damn loud before they start breaking up naturally

Plus they take pedals just about as well as an amp can

flatlinegraphics

also, most combo amps have speaker outs so you can run extension cabs.

one of the loudest 'stacks' i've had the pleasure(?) of hearing was a guy running a stereo polychorus, splitting the chorus into two ac30's.

and be aware that while a watt is a watt, tube amps can crank out the full rating. most solid state amps will start to sound nasty at about 1/2 to 3/4 volume. tubes can push 100% (the why's include long essays about even/odd harmonics and the way the amplifiers work). so 30-50w can and is enough for most people and situations. and be aware that alot of bands with full stacks don't actually plug the second cab in. they are just there for looks.

edit: just looked at the windsor listing you posted. damn thats cheap. i'd try and find one locally to play through before committing. plus, realize that at that price point, you will never get a trade in for it. you might be able to sell it to someone else. but its basically a one time money sink.

garroad_ran

i n c u b u s wrote: »

Thanks for the advice so far, I am open to combo amps as well I guess I emphasized half stacks because everyone I know who gigs on a regular basis owns at least a half stack also I was very interested in this. I didn't know you can hook up a combo to a cab (god I must sound retarded)? I'm def open to any and all suggestions stack or combo here, my only problem is that local music store is run by nazi's who won't let you try before you buy and the only other music store with a big enough selection is about an hour away.

I feel sorry for your gigging friends. I've owned a 4x12 and got rid of it when I started gigging more than once a month. Lugging those things around to -any- gig is a pain, but to do it several times a week? My puny musician muscles cannot handle that.

Look into a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I don't know how much they are going for, but it's a fantastic clean amp, goes for pretty cheap, and works well with every distortion pedal I've put in front of it. It's also big enough for any gig.

Hell, you might even look into the considerably smaller Fender Blues Jr. While it's not the same thing as the Deluxe, its very similar, and since I picked one up a few months ago it has actually turned into my primary gigging amp. The little sucker is loud enough that I can play with a big band (rhythm section + 15 horns playing Tower of Power and Blood Sweat and Tears), and runs on EL34 tubes which I think sound better dirty than the 6L6GCs in the Deluxe.

In any case, it's always going to come down to the sound you want and how much you're willing to spend. Your experience with a variety of different amps and speakers will lead you to better and better choices as you go.

i n c u b u s

flatlinegraphics wrote: »

also, most combo amps have speaker outs so you can run extension cabs.

one of the loudest 'stacks' i've had the pleasure(?) of hearing was a guy running a stereo polychorus, splitting the chorus into two ac30's.

and be aware that while a watt is a watt, tube amps can crank out the full rating. most solid state amps will start to sound nasty at about 1/2 to 3/4 volume. tubes can push 100% (the why's include long essays about even/odd harmonics and the way the amplifiers work). so 30-50w can and is enough for most people and situations. and be aware that alot of bands with full stacks don't actually plug the second cab in. they are just there for looks.

edit: just looked at the windsor listing you posted. damn thats cheap. i'd try and find one locally to play through before committing. plus, realize that at that price point, you will never get a trade in for it. you might be able to sell it to someone else. but its basically a one time money sink.

Why do you say that? Also if I'm not mistaken its both the head and the cab for 400 right?

flatlinegraphics

yeah, looks like a full stack, but assume that a trade in is 1/4 the ticket price, as they have to mark it up to profit. that means that the head will trade in at roughly $75, the whole stack for $100-150. most shops will probably not even bother. thats like a down payment on a pedal. private sale, you will be able to move it at maybe $150-250, if you can find a buyer.

i mean, if you need a stack, right now, like at your door for a gig on friday, then go for it. but with a little shopping of the used market, you can probably do better.

and note that this isn;t to bag on peavey. i own a 5150i and love it.

and resale value isn't always the only thing to look for. i mean, i also own a 1976 univox lp copy. it ain't work shit. but i love it. but with big hardware like an amp, you kinda have to keep this stuff in mind, as like i said, your first amp is not your last. esp on the low end.

but in all, go play it. and if its awesome, ignore me, buy it and rock the fsck out.

edit: spoiler for picswhoring:

5150 = $500, less $250 in trades. randall 412 = $200
second row: peavey roadmaster 200w tube head = free, "nonworking" (blown fuse) from someones basement.
if you are patient, you can get alot. and if you always trade up and invest wisely, you can get even more.

mooshoepork

You don't really need a half stack, unless you are really happy with one. As someone else said, you can get a great tone from a combo.

Myself, I use an Vox AC15CC1. I didn't need the 30, but it does sound really, really nice.

If you're into any vintage stuff, radiohead, indie, I'd check it out.

Jimmy King

As another recommendation, depending on what sound you're looking for, 1x12 40W Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 401 combos seem to go for $350-$450 plus shipping on ebay used right now. I've got a few I'm looking at on there right now.

Another option in combo form in your price range is the Peavey Vypyr series. They've got a 75 watt solid state that usually goes for around $299 and a 60 watt tube version (which I'm looking at very closely) that goes for around $450. These are modeling amps, so there are some advantages and disadvantages. I've heard nothing but good about them from owners so far, though.

Dark_Side

It really all depends on the kind of tone you're going for. I personally feel that a Class A tube amp (British style) is probably one of the loudest amps you'll ever own, and the tone/harmonics/breakup of them is just incredible. I have an old Crate V15 that I would argue beats out half the amplifiers a place like guitar center usually stocks, and that's at a 300 dollar cost. With a new speaker and better tubes, and maybe some slight modding of the circuit, it would take on any amp you could bring. (Sadly, Crate's sound engineers have a horrible track record with gain/distortion design, which is this amp's one failing aside from how cheap it's built.) But it is definitely not the type of amp you would want to play hard metal on.

I'd go with a combo amp simply for ease of lugging it around and the decidedly less room it takes up, and I feel that they usually sound way better. (But I'm a huge vintage fan) I would shy away from anything Peavey and most of Crate's stuff, the sound quality just isn't there, or at least hasn't been every time I tested one out. Never have tried that 5150 though.....

I should probably explain what Class A means too. Essentially there are two types of analog tube design used in amplifiers, a Class A and Class A/B circuit. Class A/B is the much more common design which cuts power to the tubes when you're not pushing signal through them, tubes last longer, but you take a hit in your amp's dynamics, which may or may not matter depending on your own preferences of your sound. Class A/B is also quieter, though I don't know why. A 50 watt A/B tube amp is probably just enough for a small club and a wild drummer. Class A on the other hand runs full power to the tubes all the time, and will melt your face off in how loud they are. They are hailed for their chime like tones and can get downright treble-y if you're not careful. They require more maintenance though since they eat up tubes faster.

Sir Carcass

Don't listen to these girly men, half stacks are awesome. Full stacks are even better. Lugging cabinets builds character.

If you have a Guitar Center near you, they'll most likely have that amp there (GC owns Musician's Friend), for the same price, so you can try it out and if you like it, buy it there. I can't comment on that particular one, but I love Peavey, so it's worth a look. Just keep in mind that it's only one channel, so if you want clean and distortion, you'll need a pedal.

Dark_Side

Pshaw, the only guys who like having full stacks for gigging are guys who can afford to pay someone to haul them around for them. After a few times of lugging those bastards up down some flights of stairs, I realized that shit was totally for the birds.

i n c u b u s

Thanks a lot guys, the hunt is still not over yet but you guys def have given me perspective. I really need to take a trip to a bigger store now that I actually know what I'm looking for. BTW has anyone dealt with the Fender 212R?

McViking

I'll endorse the opinion of all of the other folks who have recommended a lower-wattage amp with better tone. An amp that goes to 11 isn't really that cool if you can only play it at 2 without getting your band kicked out of the bar. And if you're only playing it at 2, you aren't getting full tube saturation, so you aren't getting full tone. So you end up paying money to carry 150 pounds of gear for volume that you can't use and inferior tone. Unless you really need that auxiliary penis, it isn't worth it. And if you do need the auxiliary penis, get a fender champ, crank it to 11, and hide it inside of an empty Marshall cabinet like the pros do :-P

I've got a sweet 1974 Fender Twin that pretty much sits at home most of time for exactly these reasons. (No, you can't have it.) I ended up getting one of these instead, so I can run it at the full 18 watts of hand-wired tube goodness at shows. And if I have to park a block away from the venue and walk it in, I don't need a team of oompah-loompahs to carry the thing.

In short, buy a decent quality all-tube amp that you can run at nearly full volume for most situations in which you'd use it. For me, that sweet spot happens to be 18 watts, and any place that I need to be louder will have a house PA and a mic for the amp. But YMMV.

All that said, the price on that Peavy seems really good for what you get, assuming it doesn't sound like crap. I just doubt that you'd have many chances to operate it at anything near tube saturation, so you'd never really push the amp to get that rich tube tone.

Dark_Side

The problem with that Peavey, as someone pointed out up thread though, is that it's re-sale value is practically zero. Which is fine if you understand that when buying it, but it does seem like a hell of a deal. (Thing sure is ugly though)

212R looks fine, I would probably use it as a clean tone amp and try to use pedals to create any distortion. I've always found solid state fenders to sound tinny and have terrible distortion, but ymmv. (They are built rock solid though from my experience.) Beauty of an amp like that is it's going to sound the same at 2 as at 7. I guess it's worthwhile to ask what kind of music you're looking to play? Fender's best bang for your buck amps are the Hot Rod series in my opinion. They'll give a tonal range appropriate for stuff like blues and up to hard rock like AC/DC etc, and they're great little screamers.

i n c u b u s

Dark_Side wrote: »

The problem with that Peavey, as someone pointed out up thread though, is that it's re-sale value is practically zero. Which is fine if you understand that when buying it, but it does seem like a hell of a deal. (Thing sure is ugly though)

212R looks fine, I would probably use it as a clean tone amp and try to use pedals to create any distortion. I've always found solid state fenders to sound tinny and have terrible distortion, but ymmv. (They are built rock solid though from my experience.) Beauty of an amp like that is it's going to sound the same at 2 as at 7. I guess it's worthwhile to ask what kind of music you're looking to play? Fender's best bang for your buck amps are the Hot Rod series in my opinion. They'll give a tonal range appropriate for stuff like blues and up to hard rock like AC/DC etc, and they're great little screamers.

I play a variety of styles to include using my built in acoustic pick up in my Fender Nashville Telecaster to just blasting distortion on high to whatever. I also use a DD-3, Phase Shifter, and Mega Distortion pedals with anything I play through so an amp that works well with effects is a plus and I do plan on getting a lot more effects to play with.

Typhoid Manny

i n c u b u s wrote: »

BTW has anyone dealt with the Fender 212R?

It's a solid-state fender combo, which means it gets pretty loud and sounds like it's solid-state

i n c u b u s

Ok so it looks like I have a new problem you guys, the search for a new amp is going well but for some reason whenever I find one that looks interesting it lacks a key feature I want. My problem is that I'm moving into a dorm in August so having something that can be run through headphones would be great. Although I just realized that this is not essential because my building will have a practice space for musicians and I will still have my little Fender 15G to play in my room if I wanted. I called up a guy at Guitar Center and asked about the Peavey half stack to which he couldn't say enough great things about it. He even explained how he knew of a way to get a pretty decent clean sound out of it with the right knob settings and that it was possible to have headphones run on it through the pre-amp. He also mentioned a 30 day no questions asked return policy with a 3 year full replacement warranty as well which sounds pretty nice.

Dark_Side

i n c u b u s wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

The problem with that Peavey, as someone pointed out up thread though, is that it's re-sale value is practically zero. Which is fine if you understand that when buying it, but it does seem like a hell of a deal. (Thing sure is ugly though)

212R looks fine, I would probably use it as a clean tone amp and try to use pedals to create any distortion. I've always found solid state fenders to sound tinny and have terrible distortion, but ymmv. (They are built rock solid though from my experience.) Beauty of an amp like that is it's going to sound the same at 2 as at 7. I guess it's worthwhile to ask what kind of music you're looking to play? Fender's best bang for your buck amps are the Hot Rod series in my opinion. They'll give a tonal range appropriate for stuff like blues and up to hard rock like AC/DC etc, and they're great little screamers.

I play a variety of styles to include using my built in acoustic pick up in my Fender Nashville Telecaster to just blasting distortion on high to whatever. I also use a DD-3, Phase Shifter, and Mega Distortion pedals with anything I play through so an amp that works well with effects is a plus and I do plan on getting a lot more effects to play with.

212R would probably be a good match for you then. I would definitely check out a few different iterations of the Hot Rod series though. You won't find one at 100w, but I think you would probably really like them.

Per your post just now, I wouldn't waste much time trying to find an amp with a headphone jack because that's an entirely different scenario. You really wouldn't want a headphone jack on an amp you plan on gigging with, because you'll never use it. Jack of all trades master of none kind of deal. Be careful listening to Guitar Center guys, but definitely go in and check out the Peavey, it seems like you're leaning towards it. For headphone stuff, I'd probably just get something like the line 6 pod or similar.

flatlinegraphics

yeah, what Dark_Side said. you can probably pick up a used POD on ebay for around $20.

plus, i don't know for sure, but i think the GC guy was talking out his ass. you really really really don't want to run a tube amp without a load. like let out the magic smoke bad. sparks and fire bad. some/most newer amps have protection circuits built in, but in general, tube amp == connected to a speaker when on. solid states do not have this problem. so while you may be able to jury rig a set of headphones into the preamp-out, its probably not the best idea.

there are things like the marshall powerbreak, which will tame down the volume while still saturating the tubes, but those run around $200 or so. so really not worth it.

as for pedals, thats a whoooole other thread. but in general, you'll probably find distortion pedals less usefull, or atleast less good, on a tube amp. boosts and overdrive are generally going to sound better, as they push the amp into saturation and natural distortion.

Scrublet

flatlinegraphics wrote: »

as for pedals, thats a whoooole other thread. but in general, you'll probably find distortion pedals less usefull, or atleast less good, on a tube amp. boosts and overdrive are generally going to sound better, as they push the amp into saturation and natural distortion.

I did not know this, and really want to try my bass overdrive pedal on a tube amp to see what the difference is to my solid state.

Dark_Side

Some distortion pedals sound great on a tube amp, some don't. An Boss MT-2 may or may not sound great depending on your proclivities. But I find that my Big Muff pi, with (I think) the germanium transistors, sounds amazing on my current tube amp.

Mishra

If your willing to go used and spend a little more try and find a Mesa Nomad 45 or 55. I got my 45 for $600 on craigslist. They're awesome tube amps and loud as hell, and has some great built in distortion and reverb

virgilsamms

he knew of a way to get a pretty decent clean sound out of it with the right knob settings

That doesn't sound like a glowing endorsement to me...try plugging your guitar into a Vox AC15 or 30 or one of the fender tube amps and try *not* to get a beautiful clean sound.

flatlinegraphics

Dark_Side wrote: »

Some distortion pedals sound great on a tube amp, some don't. An Boss MT-2 may or may not sound great depending on your proclivities. But I find that my Big Muff pi, with (I think) the germanium transistors, sounds amazing on my current tube amp.

yeah, it really depends on the pedal. but most pure distortion pedals, and esp cheapi-ish ones, use diode clipping for distortion. which is the same thing as distortion on a solid state amp. so you're trying to get away from solid state distortion and then using solid state distortion..... not to say it will be 100% bad, or even always not good. it just that you need to fiddle with your settings a bit.

and i had a big muff a while back, and used it one my solid state. was generally unimpressed, and sold it. found a used one recently for $30, and decided what the hell. pushing it through the 5150 now is just blissfull saturated ..muffyness, for lack of a better word.

Dark_Side

flatlinegraphics wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Some distortion pedals sound great on a tube amp, some don't. An Boss MT-2 may or may not sound great depending on your proclivities. But I find that my Big Muff pi, with (I think) the germanium transistors, sounds amazing on my current tube amp.

yeah, it really depends on the pedal. but most pure distortion pedals, and esp cheapi-ish ones, use diode clipping for distortion. which is the same thing as distortion on a solid state amp. so you're trying to get away from solid state distortion and then using solid state distortion..... not to say it will be 100% bad, or even always not good. it just that you need to fiddle with your settings a bit.

and i had a big muff a while back, and used it one my solid state. was generally unimpressed, and sold it. found a used one recently for $30, and decided what the hell. pushing it through the 5150 now is just blissfull saturated ..muffyness, for lack of a better word.

Oh god the sustain.....mine is a fuzzy, sustain monster, it's not what I would call your classic kind of distortion, it just won't sound right trying to rock some punk power chords, but the solo sound is amazing. I also just picked up an Electro Harmonix Memory Man with Hazarai, and it is single handedly one of the best delay pedals I've ever owned.

i n c u b u s

A funny incident happened yesterday, I mentioned that I have a Boss MD-2 but its been broken for 3 years now after I loaned it to a friend. I've kept it in case I could find someone who could fix it but I could never find a shop that could and labor to fix it from Boss would cost more than the pedal brand new. So for no reason at all I decided to give it one last crack at fixing it yesterday before I trashed it and I actually managed to get it working! Now my problem is to keep it from over powering my other pedals when using them together with all the noise and feedback it creates. So it looks like one of the main features I want in an amp is purely optional now which is a powerful/foot switchable distortion channel. I've seen a few Vox's that look awesome but I'm not sure what model would be big enough to be taken seriously with when playing with a full band or even live with mic-ing it.

Dark_Side

i n c u b u s wrote: »

A funny incident happened yesterday, I mentioned that I have a Boss MD-2 but its been broken for 3 years now after I loaned it to a friend. I've kept it in case I could find someone who could fix it but I could never find a shop that could and labor to fix it from Boss would cost more than the pedal brand new. So for no reason at all I decided to give it one last crack at fixing it yesterday before I trashed it and I actually managed to get it working! Now my problem is to keep it from over powering my other pedals when using them together with all the noise and feedback it creates. So it looks like one of the main features I want in an amp is purely optional now which is a powerful/foot switchable distortion channel. I've seen a few Vox's that look awesome but I'm not sure what model would be big enough to be taken seriously with when playing with a full band or even live with mic-ing it.

Where you put an effect, especially distortion, in the effects chain makes a huge difference. Think about what it's doing to the signal as it goes through your pedals. I usually put my distortion first or last depending on what I want to do.

Vox's are cool, but you won't find a tube one anywhere near what you're looking to spend. I haven't spent much time with their valve-tronics branded stuff, maybe someone else can tell you about those.

flatlinegraphics

an ac30 is more than enough amp to run with a full band. it also has an external speaker tap, so if you are deaf, you can add another 2x12 and be really really deaf. but i think it is out of your price range. which puts us back to something like a peavey classic 30.

the valvetronics are about as good as a modelling solid state combo amp can be, which is better than a straight ss, but not as good as a real tube amp. but then again, you can run headphones out of it, and may be a viable choice for dorm/apartment living.

mooshoepork

You can even gig with an AC15. It can easily keep up with a drum kit. I'd get the AC30 if you plan on gigging though just in case.

I absolutely love my ac15.

One thing, if it's for bedroom practice, it is LOUD.

wasted pixels

mooshoepork wrote: »

You can even gig with an AC15. It can easily keep up with a drum kit. I'd get the AC30 if you plan on gigging though just in case.

I absolutely love my ac15.

One thing, if it's for bedroom practice, it is LOUD.

I'll second the AC15, other than the H&K Edition Tube (which I think is discontinued now, sadly), it's probably the best sub-$1,000 combo I've ever played.

I want to really stress something mentioned earlier in the thread; on the off chance a smaller combo can't keep up with your drummer, there's always the PA. I've got a friend who gigs with a little 5w boutique combo amp that he just mics up. The funny bit is that he has a broken Orange AD30 head and some ratty old Peavey cab that he brings but doesn't bother plugging in, then he hides the li'l amp and microphone behind that.

flatlinegraphics

wasted pixels wrote: »

I want to really stress something mentioned earlier in the thread; on the off chance a smaller combo can't keep up with your drummer, there's always the PA. I've got a friend who gigs with a little 5w boutique combo amp that he just mics up. The funny bit is that he has a broken Orange AD30 head and some ratty old Peavey cab that he brings but doesn't bother plugging in, then he hides the li'l amp and microphone behind that.

yeah. one thing to note tho, and this will mostly depend on the genre, is that unless you own your own p.a., there is no guarantee that you will show up somewhere and there will be a p.a. worth anything. esp in the underground/indie/punk scene, if there is a p.a., its absolute shit. but, if you do go this way, having your own mic and short stand will make the sound guy happy.

and i know for a fact that marshall provides touring bands with empty full stacks, and heads that only contain an on switch light. behind that wall of marshall 'cabs' is a single 412 mic'd up (if that).

and if your friend wants to get rid of that ad30, i know a nice person that will give it a loving home :P

i n c u b u s

I'm def gonna check out the AC15 and AC30 this weekend along with a couple fender amps to include one that has me extremely intrigued which is the Fender 60W FM Frontman combo. Its footswitchable, has a headphone jack, its small enough for a dorm but big enough to gig, has a great clean channel, I believe it might even have an amp out to attach a cab to it. Possible winner?

Also as an awesome lil side note, as mentioned early my zombie Boss MD-2 that came back to life the other day is overpowering my pedal board. I happened to come across a Boss NS-2 at my local music shop for $40 brand new! This thing was a total steal seeing as how they go for ever a hundred brand new and for 80+ on eBay so I bought it right on the spot no questions asked. It works like a dream, pretty cool huh?

EDIT: This is the link to the amp refered above.

i n c u b u s

Wow I just stumbled across this bad boy right here. I've already seen the 212 but this model comes with two seperate channels, effects, footswitch that works with the two channels and can combine the two with seperate effects, and on top of it all a damn headphone jack! It's like the heavens called down and told me this was my amp!

Fiziks

I have only read good things about the Fender Blues Jr. Sounds great clean, and breaks up nice when you want to push it to 11. If you do get one, look for the tweed NOS version, it's got a much better Jensen speaker.