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Carpocalypse Now: And then there was one...

1356

Posts

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    I'm just saying there are a ton of people that swap cars every 3 years. Probably a lot more then those that keep them for 10. I'm not defending JD's metric, just justifying it.

    A lot, maybe. However I would not guess that you're right. Or, maybe put it at something like 8 years. There are far too many people that can't afford to swap every three, for me to think that it's likely.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    The point is that there were over 50 million cars produced worldwide in 2008 alone. That number trends backwards reasonably flat, but only this year has (have?) there been real problems getting them all out the door.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote:
    domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples.

    It doesn't count as goalpost moving if you were staring at the wrong endzone.

    ElJeffe wrote:
    Consumer reports conducts extensive surveys every year, and the domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples. I mean, yeah, a Porsche 996 will be less reliable than a Ford Taurus, but as a whole, the domestic brands suck. Chrysler in particular is terrible. Ford is merely the least bad.

    That is a pretty fucking definitive statement right there.


    I mean, you'd almost think that Ford and Chevrolet weren't ahead of Volkswagen while making similar cars, that Lincoln and Buick weren't ahead of, say, Audi while making cars targeted towards a similar niche, etc. I didn't really realize that the word "always" really meant "Sometimes when it fits my arguement." I'll notify websters.

    Jealous Deva on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Also I still think domestic reliability issues are overblown. And I still want to know how fleet vehicles are factored into that equation, if they are.

    ALSO it blows my mind that buick scores so highly every year while pontiac and such trail. They are the same platform, the same goddamned engine in a lot of cases. Another reason I hold many of these surveys suspect.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    Also I still think domestic reliability issues are overblown. And I still want to know how fleet vehicles are factored into that equation, if they are.

    ALSO it blows my mind that buick scores so highly every year while pontiac and such trail. They are the same platform, the same goddamned engine in a lot of cases. Another reason I hold many of these surveys suspect.

    The solstice/Sky drags down Saturn and Pontiac a fair amount. Also the Buick tends to use older engines like the 3800 which are less complex and thus have less problems.

    I do know what you mean, though. Stuff like the Cooper Clubman being Most reliable while the Cooper S Covertible being below average - Are they counting rips in the cloth top as 'reliability problems'? Why do the Aura and Malibu have different ratings when they are identical and made on the same line? Without really having any data on what they use to make the surveys (is it models by sales or does a Corvette count as much as a Malibu despite the latter selling 10 times as much? Does, say, a loose door panel count the same as an engine replacement?) it's hard to make much of a judgement on what they actually mean, especially when they vary wildly between publications.

    Jealous Deva on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Then the solstice must be a total shitbomb to drag pontiac down that far since the platform and engine options between buick and pontiac are near identical.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Why the hell would people swap cars every three years unless they were flat-out loaded? Like, to the point benjamins were literally falling out of their assholes?

    Duffel on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    Then the solstice must be a total shitbomb to drag pontiac down that far since the platform and engine options between buick and pontiac are near identical.

    Not really. Lacrosse is on a W body IIRC, and the Lucerne is the same Platform as the DTS. The G5 and G6 are on Delta and Epsilon. The buicks both use 3800 V6s for the most part while the Pontiacs use the standard GM 4s. Pontiac has been brought in line with Chevy for the most part while Buick hasn't changed a lot the past 10 years.

    Jealous Deva on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Leasing, sir. Or even the buying trading in cycle. People must love that new car smell.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Why the hell would people swap cars every three years unless they were flat-out loaded? Like, to the point benjamins were literally falling out of their assholes?

    1: Folk belief that vehicles will self destruct once their warranty ends.
    2: Keeping up with the Joneses.
    3: In the UK at least, cars have to start getting an MoT inspection every year once they're three years old, and people are snobbish about taking their car to a garage and having to talk to mechanics.

    japan on
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    japan wrote: »
    1: Folk belief that vehicles will self destruct once their warranty ends.
    2: Keeping up with the Joneses.
    3: In the UK at least, cars have to start getting an MoT inspection every year once they're three years old, and people are snobbish about taking their car to a garage and having to talk to mechanics.
    Weird. My Jeep actually was a leased vehicle before we bought it. It was kickass because we got it for a used price (about 10k) even though it just had about 30k miles on it.

    Duffel on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    The lucerne also shares its platform with the bonneville (h body) and the lacross with the impala and grand prix (w body). The engine options are the same. You can get the ls4 in the lacrosse super, although I think the idea of a 150mph buick is lost on your current consumer. Which is a fucking shame considering buicks history.

    So little shitboxes are bringing brands down. :(

    edit: Apparently a lot has changed since ive last taken a look at pontiac. Huh, my bad. I do hope I can pick up a cheap g8 soon though!

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Why the hell would people swap cars every three years unless they were flat-out loaded? Like, to the point benjamins were literally falling out of their assholes?

    I'm sure the insurance companies were buying a fair number of them as well.

    Burtletoy on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote:
    Consumer reports conducts extensive surveys every year, and the domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples. I mean, yeah, a Porsche 996 will be less reliable than a Ford Taurus, but as a whole, the domestic brands suck. Chrysler in particular is terrible. Ford is merely the least bad.

    That is a pretty fucking definitive statement right there.

    Yes, yes it is.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    The lucerne also shares its platform with the bonneville (h body) and the lacross with the impala and grand prix (w body). The engine options are the same. You can get the ls4 in the lacrosse super, although I think the idea of a 150mph buick is lost on your current consumer. Which is a fucking shame considering buicks history.

    So little shitboxes are bringing brands down. :(

    Guess it depends on what you want. I was talking with a car salsman the oher day about my options for leasing a Prius. I told him that MPG was the only time I was concerned about. He suggested a look at a Carolla because "It has great MPG and some good lease deals right now" I responded that any car not getting more than 5mpg better than my 12 year old boat of a Eagle Vision (Dodge Intrepid) isn't getting "great fuel econ"

    Burtletoy on
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I for one would welcome a government issued personal transportation vehicle.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    I for one would welcome a government issued personal transportation vehicle.
    There is a song about that!

    mugginns on
    E26cO.jpg
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I would love more public transportation to keep people off the roads. Nothing worse then getting caught behind some fuck on my way to athens when im trying to enjoy my drive.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    I would love more public transportation to keep people off the roads. Nothing worse then getting caught behind some fuck on my way to athens when im trying to enjoy my drive.

    And there is an Onion article about this!

    Adrien on
    tmkm.jpg
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, I'm one of thoooose people. Except that I do often enjoy a spirited drive on a country back road or a windy highway, rather than just wanting to shorten my commute.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote:
    Consumer reports conducts extensive surveys every year, and the domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples. I mean, yeah, a Porsche 996 will be less reliable than a Ford Taurus, but as a whole, the domestic brands suck. Chrysler in particular is terrible. Ford is merely the least bad.

    That is a pretty fucking definitive statement right there.

    Yes, yes it is.


    Comparing VW small and midsize sedans to Ford and Chevy small and midsize sedans somehow is not apples to apples?

    Edit: Let me put it another way:

    Ford didn't just beat Porsche in reliability.

    With the exception of Volvo, owned by Ford, and Mini, which only produces really one model of car, Ford beat out every European manufacture. Every brand of Ford beat out every European brand except one, which was firmly in the middle of Ford's brands.

    Ford beat European brands that make sport cars.

    Ford beat European brands that make sedans.

    Ford beat European brands that make compact cars.

    Ford beat European brands that make trucks and SUVs.

    Ford brands beat every European brand there is, and all Ford brands beat all European brands except one.

    Your arguement is like saying it's unfair to compare, say, food quality in food from a shop that sells apples to food quality in a supermarket that also sells apples.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The lucerne also shares its platform with the bonneville (h body) and the lacross with the impala and grand prix (w body). The engine options are the same. You can get the ls4 in the lacrosse super, although I think the idea of a 150mph buick is lost on your current consumer. Which is a fucking shame considering buicks history.

    So little shitboxes are bringing brands down. :(

    Guess it depends on what you want. I was talking with a car salsman the oher day about my options for leasing a Prius. I told him that MPG was the only time I was concerned about. He suggested a look at a Carolla because "It has great MPG and some good lease deals right now" I responded that any car not getting more than 5mpg better than my 12 year old boat of a Eagle Vision (Dodge Intrepid) isn't getting "great fuel econ"


    That's a bit of an unfair comparison because the EPA measures fuel econ much differently than they did 12 years ago.

    Current EPA ratings are worse case scenarios and can average 3-5 or more mpg less than real-world numbers.

    Jealous Deva on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    The crown vic's fleet service record speaks for itself
    Well, the Crown Vic is a flagship car for them. They make tons of them and sell them to cops, companies, old people, etc. Moreover, cops, companies, old people tend to have things serviced often. Just having a car regularly serviced, on schedule, saves you a ton of headaches.
    japan wrote: »
    No, Land Rover (outside of the Defender, which is I think sold as the D90 and D110 in the US, and is basically a tractor) is famous for it's appalling build quality, to the point that brand fanboys cheerfully acknowledge it and consider it to be part of the ownership experience.
    It's simply not an English motor if you can always make it go.
    Natheo wrote: »
    Then the solstice must be a total shitbomb to drag pontiac down that far since the platform and engine options between buick and pontiac are near identical.
    It may also be related to the type of folks buying Buicks and the type of folks buying Pontiacs.
    Duffel wrote: »
    Why the hell would people swap cars every three years unless they were flat-out loaded? Like, to the point benjamins were literally falling out of their assholes?
    Hi, I'm Bob Swarski. I'm 35, I have a $350,000 home, I'm married, I have 3 children, and I drive a BMW and my wife drives a Lexus. We both have jobs that rake in about $70,000 a year. How did we do it? Why, we're in debt up to our eyeballs! We have no idea how we're gonna pay all this shit off, and to cope with my stress, I have a growing liquid paper habit while my wife does ludes. Occasionally, I beat her and the kids because, well... I can't actually buy any movie tickets any more because the credit cards stopped working, and it looks like I'm not going to be successful selling blowjobs at the Flying J. Ok, I'm gonna go jump off that bridge over there. You take care now!

    GungHo on
    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The crown vic's fleet service record speaks for itself
    Well, the Crown Vic is a flagship car for them. They make tons of them and sell them to cops, companies, old people, etc. Moreover, cops, companies, old people tend to have things serviced often. Just having a car regularly serviced, on schedule, saves you a ton of headaches.

    Apparently the Crown Vic is on the way out in the next couple of years (you already can't buy one as a consumer, though you can buy a Grand Marquis which is the same thing for all intents and purposes).

    It'll be interesting to see where the police go, as they haven't really seemed keen on the Taurus. LAPD is supposedly interested in the G8, and lots of departments like Chargers, but who knows if Chargers will even be built by the time the Vic goes.

    Jealous Deva on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I haven't seen many police going to the newest Impala. See plenty of the 2000-05 model, but few of the new style, not even with the V8. There's been a number of Chargers popping up locally, but I hear tell that the Chargers are more expensive than the police would like.

    And the LAPD better get moving on those G8 orders. Not sure if Chevy will be moving that into their model line in some way. Granted, they mostly bring them over from Australia anyway, but Chevy is going to want to rebrand them with the bowtie and other crap.

    I have no idea what is going to happen to all the plastic manufacturing once Pontiac goes.

    GungHo on
    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The Commodore will outlive Pontiac, I'm sure if the LAPD would guarantee an order of 1000 a month GM would import them.


    Edit: And they already make Chevy badging and sheetmetal for other markets:


    Chevrolet_Lumina_S.jpg

    Jealous Deva on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    That actually looks pretty good.

    Just call it something besides the Lumina. Please. Maybe revive the Bel Air name plate.

    GungHo on
    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    whats with the damn fender vents?

    when did that become cool?

    Joolander on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    Then the solstice must be a total shitbomb to drag pontiac down that far since the platform and engine options between buick and pontiac are near identical.
    It may also be related to the type of folks buying Buicks and the type of folks buying Pontiacs.

    If this were the case then all of these surveys would be absolutely worthless.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MalaysianShrewMalaysianShrew Registered User
    edited April 2009
    So as an anecdote I drive a '94 Pontiac Bonneville. It's a piece of shit with 206k on it. I've had to replace one brake line already and now another one seems to be leaking. The brake lines, by the way, are quite unique. They have two different sized threaded ends unlike everything that auto stores sell. I had to jerry rig a solution. I have to replace the fuel line because it's leaking where the line attaches to the engine. I got a replacement end I need to splice in from the dealership, but it's straight and the end on my car is a 90deg. The front end is all out of wack and when I get a free weekend I need to do a lot of work on it. The worst, though, was when the engine fell out. Yes, fell out. Like on the ground. According to this guy who does frame work I know, this happens to Pontiacs. Only Pontiacs. The way the frame is built requires these 6 cheesy bolts to hold the engine onto the frame. 4 of mine rusted out and broke. Apparently this happens rather frequently to Pontiacs. It was only a $60 fix for the bolts and jacking the engine back up and bolting them in only took 2 hours, mostly trying to fit my arm up into the engine to reattach the steering while my dad jacked it up into place.

    So I'm not sure how I feel about Pontiacs. On one hand, my car is a piece and falling apart. On the other hand, it's a 94 with 206k on it. But if I ever find a decent manual Civic or Camry, I'm selling this thing for scrap.

    As for Jeeps, everyone I know who has a Jeep likes it, but has problems with them. 6 people with Jeeps with 8 Jeeps between them over the years and they all ran but ran poorly. Transmission problems were the main issue.

    MalaysianShrew on
    Never trust a big butt and a smile.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Bringing the thread back to the original post, apparently the fate of Chrysler has been decided:


    http://www.freep.com/article/20090428/BUSINESS01/90428041/Chrysler+s+largest+creditors++U.S.+agree+on+$2-billion+debt+deal

    With a government buyout of the 6.9 billion in outstanding bonds (with 2 billion in cash), and an agreement by the UAW to accept stock in leiu of future retirement benefits, Chrysler will now be owned 35% by Fiat, 10% by the US government, and 55% by the UAW.

    This, of course, brings up quite a number of interesting questions about how the company is going to be run, and how a similar settlement will work for GM.

    Jealous Deva on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    I've never driven a cavalier or a civic or a corolla so I wouldn't know. I do think the bad rap on domestic reliability is overblown. It's always like "yeah my friend had a chevy and it broke and stuff." Ford arguably makes one of the most reliable cars in the world, and has for a long time. Personally, I don't know if my 94 has ever really been in the shop. It had a clean carfax when I bought it (which doesn't say much) and for the 30k I've driven it it's just been maintenance. I may be out of touch with newer cars though.

    Consumer reports conducts extensive surveys every year, and the domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples. I mean, yeah, a Porsche 996 will be less reliable than a Ford Taurus, but as a whole, the domestic brands suck. Chrysler in particular is terrible. Ford is merely the least bad.

    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    BubbaT on
  • Vic_viperVic_viper Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    I've never driven a cavalier or a civic or a corolla so I wouldn't know. I do think the bad rap on domestic reliability is overblown. It's always like "yeah my friend had a chevy and it broke and stuff." Ford arguably makes one of the most reliable cars in the world, and has for a long time. Personally, I don't know if my 94 has ever really been in the shop. It had a clean carfax when I bought it (which doesn't say much) and for the 30k I've driven it it's just been maintenance. I may be out of touch with newer cars though.

    Consumer reports conducts extensive surveys every year, and the domestic brands are always well behind Japanese and European brands, apples to apples. I mean, yeah, a Porsche 996 will be less reliable than a Ford Taurus, but as a whole, the domestic brands suck. Chrysler in particular is terrible. Ford is merely the least bad.

    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    Taurus convinced my parents never to get an American car again.

    Vic_viper on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The lucerne also shares its platform with the bonneville (h body) and the lacross with the impala and grand prix (w body). The engine options are the same. You can get the ls4 in the lacrosse super, although I think the idea of a 150mph buick is lost on your current consumer. Which is a fucking shame considering buicks history.

    So little shitboxes are bringing brands down. :(

    Guess it depends on what you want. I was talking with a car salsman the oher day about my options for leasing a Prius. I told him that MPG was the only time I was concerned about. He suggested a look at a Carolla because "It has great MPG and some good lease deals right now" I responded that any car not getting more than 5mpg better than my 12 year old boat of a Eagle Vision (Dodge Intrepid) isn't getting "great fuel econ"


    That's a bit of an unfair comparison because the EPA measures fuel econ much differently than they did 12 years ago.

    Current EPA ratings are worse case scenarios and can average 3-5 or more mpg less than real-world numbers.

    Well for my old car, I'm measuring the fuel mileage. By how far it goes. On Fuel. I don't even know what the sticker on it said when my parents bought it. It just know what it does now.

    Burtletoy on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The lucerne also shares its platform with the bonneville (h body) and the lacross with the impala and grand prix (w body). The engine options are the same. You can get the ls4 in the lacrosse super, although I think the idea of a 150mph buick is lost on your current consumer. Which is a fucking shame considering buicks history.

    So little shitboxes are bringing brands down. :(

    Guess it depends on what you want. I was talking with a car salsman the oher day about my options for leasing a Prius. I told him that MPG was the only time I was concerned about. He suggested a look at a Carolla because "It has great MPG and some good lease deals right now" I responded that any car not getting more than 5mpg better than my 12 year old boat of a Eagle Vision (Dodge Intrepid) isn't getting "great fuel econ"


    That's a bit of an unfair comparison because the EPA measures fuel econ much differently than they did 12 years ago.

    Current EPA ratings are worse case scenarios and can average 3-5 or more mpg less than real-world numbers.

    Well for my old car, I'm measuring the fuel mileage. By how far it goes. On Fuel. I don't even know what the sticker on it said when my parents bought it. It just know what it does now.



    I know, I'm saying unless you are doing the same for the corolla then the numbers on the sticker are probably underestimating what you're going to get in real life by 5 mpg or so.

    EPA numbers are basically the equivalent of what you'll get driving around in below freezing weather with the air condition on going 70mph while doing a full gas pedal launch every time you stop. Because those are the conditions they test under.


    From the EPA website:
    Beginning with 2008 models, all fuel economy estimates based on new test methods, which EPA finalized in December 2006. The new methods better account for actual driving conditions that can lower fuel economy, such as high speed, aggressive driving, use of air conditioning, and cold temperature operation. The new estimates will give drivers a more accurate estimate of the fuel economy they are likely to achieve on the road. Because of the new methods, the estimates for most 2008 models will be lower than their 2007 counterparts. To aid consumers shopping for new cars, EPA has also redesigned the fuel economy window sticker posted on all new cars and light trucks to be easier to read and understand.

    Jealous Deva on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Many of the older vehicles will also have revised rankings

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    Hi, I'm Bob Swarski. I'm 35, I have a $350,000 home, I'm married, I have 3 children, and I drive a BMW and my wife drives a Lexus. We both have jobs that rake in about $70,000 a year. How did we do it? Why, we're in debt up to our eyeballs! We have no idea how we're gonna pay all this shit off, and to cope with my stress, I have a growing liquid paper habit while my wife does ludes. Occasionally, I beat her and the kids because, well... I can't actually buy any movie tickets any more because the credit cards stopped working, and it looks like I'm not going to be successful selling blowjobs at the Flying J. Ok, I'm gonna go jump off that bridge over there. You take care now!

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Modern Pledge of Allegiance.

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The crown vic's fleet service record speaks for itself
    Well, the Crown Vic is a flagship car for them. They make tons of them and sell them to cops, companies, old people, etc. Moreover, cops, companies, old people tend to have things serviced often. Just having a car regularly serviced, on schedule, saves you a ton of headaches.

    Apparently the Crown Vic is on the way out in the next couple of years (you already can't buy one as a consumer, though you can buy a Grand Marquis which is the same thing for all intents and purposes).

    It'll be interesting to see where the police go, as they haven't really seemed keen on the Taurus. LAPD is supposedly interested in the G8, and lots of departments like Chargers, but who knows if Chargers will even be built by the time the Vic goes.

    There's some niche company that wants to build a purpose-built police cruiser and says they'll be ready to sell them in the 2012 model year. I didn't think they had a chance in hell the first time I heard of it, but if Ford kills off the Crown Vic, I think it'll probably catch on.

    Daedalus on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    Natheo wrote: »
    The crown vic's fleet service record speaks for itself
    Well, the Crown Vic is a flagship car for them. They make tons of them and sell them to cops, companies, old people, etc. Moreover, cops, companies, old people tend to have things serviced often. Just having a car regularly serviced, on schedule, saves you a ton of headaches.

    Apparently the Crown Vic is on the way out in the next couple of years (you already can't buy one as a consumer, though you can buy a Grand Marquis which is the same thing for all intents and purposes).

    It'll be interesting to see where the police go, as they haven't really seemed keen on the Taurus. LAPD is supposedly interested in the G8, and lots of departments like Chargers, but who knows if Chargers will even be built by the time the Vic goes.

    The reason that Ford is phasing out the Panther Chassis (Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car) is because it's ancient and outdated.

    It's body-on-frame, an architecture (largely unchanged since the 1970s) you only find in trucks, and have only found in trucks for the last decade (also, this is the reason that you see so many more Town Car limos than Caddy Limos - it's orders of magnitude cheaper to stretch a body-on-frame car). It uses the same 4-speed automatic transmission, with minor changes (and actually pretty solid improvements, especially the transition from AOD-E to 4R70W) that it did in the 1980s. The engine has seen only minor changes since 1991.

    To my knowledge, the only cars that still use a solid rear axle are the Ford Mustangs and the Panther Chassis Fords. Outside of this, the only place you'll find solid rear axles are on trucks or 10+ year old cars. And 10 years ago, the only cars that would join that list are things like the Chevy Caprice Classic.

    All of these are reasons why the panther chassis fords are so cheap, so reliable, and so easy to maintain. These are also the reasons why Ford is discontinuing the platform. They've been planning to get rid of it for years, but there is so much demand for them from limo services, coachbuilders, police forces, etc. that they always keep it around for just one more year.

    I own one (1997 Town Car Cartier) and I absolutely love it. I am, however, capable of recognizing that it's time for Ford to move on. They need a full size sedan to satisfy this market, so it will certainly be replaced.

    I'd like to see Ford build a full size, rear drive sedan with modern tech. Independent rear suspension is a start, maybe an aluminum monocoque chassis to keep weight down and strength up. Modern engines (the V6 ecoboost as an example, maybe an 8-cylinder variant for the sake of tradition). A modern transmission (please!) with 5 or 6 forward ratios.

    guess what guys ...
    They already build and sell them in Australia
    http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/car-images/ford-falcon-xt-2-big.jpg

    Base engine is a straight six (woot! 260 HP), also available is a turbo straight-six (good for 362 HP) and Ford's 5.4 liter 4 valve motor (good for 388 HP). The car can be had with 5 or 6 speed automatic, and a 6 speed manual is an option. Limited slip differentials are available on certain models. 40k is good for the 388 horse V8 model with all the options.

    I'd love for Ford to pull a pontiac and bring the Falcon over.

    fshavlak on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I still dream about finding a Marauder in decent shape that some old guy drove, and just wants to move it out of his driveway for a pittance before going to the old age home ... :P

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
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