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(R) Sen. Arlen Specter is switching parties

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Posts

  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.

    Snowe is like the Ted Kennedy of Maine. Collins has had her up and down moments, and frankly the only thing that saved her last year was her history of opposition to Bush's most high-profile bullshit and a weak opponent. Maine just doesn't produce strong Democrats; they all end up leaving the state for somewhere with running water and fewer moose-strikes. Collins is always vulnerable; Snowe could eat a baby on camera at this point and still win by 20 points.

    Zimmydoom on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    A) The Dems are going to basically shepherd Specter through the Democratic primary. Probably was part of the deal. (You can still run against him; you're just on your own as far as support goes.)
    The party is supposed to keep its hands out of the primary anyway. It is PA, though, which makes that more a platitude than a reality.

    OptimusZed on
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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.

    Snowe is like the Ted Kennedy of Maine. Collins has had her up and down moments, and frankly the only thing that saved her last year was her history of opposition to Bush's most high-profile bullshit and a weak opponent. Maine just doesn't produce strong Democrats; they all end up leaving the state for somewhere with running water and fewer moose-strikes. Collins is always vulnerable; Snowe could eat a baby on camera at this point and still win by 20 points.

    Is the flu thing actually causing Collins significant harm?

    Or rather, is the swine flu actually the cause? Because seriously.

    Septus on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
    Their unofficial "moderate Pubs" caucus has just been cut off at the knees, though. They'd have more power caucusing with the Dems and throwing in with Bayh's semi-fictional ConservaDem caucus.
    Well, until Franken is seated they still have power. And they've been doing the "moderate Pub" thing for years. That's one of the reasons they're so popular. Maine's kind of conservative, but it's still New England.
    They control 33% less of their own caucus than they did yesterday. That's a pretty hefty blow.

    There's also the fact that power generally lies more with the votes to break a fillibuster than to enforce one. If they defect they can put the screws to the other side of the aisle instead of just being an assumed vote against cloture.

    OptimusZed on
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Fox News: "Highlighting the intense unpopularity of Obama's handling of the economy, support for his stimulus package among Republicans has dropped by 33% in the last day."
    You're absolutely joking, right?

    The fact that it's not obvious is hilarious.

    Wait, no, what's the word?

    Horrible. That's it.

    The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"

    SyphonBlue on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    The word from NRO:
    RE: Arlen Specter [Mark Hemingway]

    I read that he was switching parties, but I was disappointed to learn he's still a Democrat.

    A-hurrr!

    ElJeffe on
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  • galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    OK, that's actually kind of funny. =)

    galenblade on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Fox News: "Highlighting the intense unpopularity of Obama's handling of the economy, support for his stimulus package among Republicans has dropped by 33% in the last day."
    You're absolutely joking, right?

    The fact that it's not obvious is hilarious.

    Wait, no, what's the word?

    Horrible. That's it.

    The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"

    We report, you decide exactly how horrible that filthy Specter person is being.

    cloudeagle on
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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    galenblade wrote: »
    OK, that's actually kind of funny. =)

    Yeah.

    Also, Jeffe's fake Fox quote is better than the real thing:

    042809_specter2.jpg

    Edit: Beat, but damnit I have the image.

    Jragghen on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    Okay, it appears that:

    A) The Dems are going to basically shepherd Specter through the Democratic primary. Probably was part of the deal. (You can still run against him; you're just on your own as far as support goes.)

    B) The remaining Republicans are in a meeting; McConnell should have a statement out when that's over. That'll be fun.

    Hmmm...I don't know that anybody will beat him, then, even with the EFCA stance. It might be a bit closer because of it, but I see him getting the nomination.

    At which point he'll be the incumbent, without the GOP stench. Or at least with less of it.
    The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"

    That's awesome.

    What, all six of them?

    Who will still be willing to admit to being a "GOP voter" in another 18 months, after they've finished the trainwreck they're currently on course for? No, I think there will be a lot of "I'm generally an independent, but I think I've favoring Republicans this time around" voters.

    In other words, Republicans are the new Democrats. But we knew that.



    Anyway, welcome to the party Arlen! Also, that NRO line was hilarious.

    mcdermott on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    OptimusZed on
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  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Caaba Beankomy XobthroRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    Nor are all Republicans guaranteed to unite on a filibuster. But that's why I said if he becomes part of the democrat bloc as a whole, trying to stop filibusters, it will increase the likelihood of bills being passed with no republican support.

    Good. I know I'm pretty tired of bipartisan bullshit half measures. WOO partisanship!

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”

    Gosling on
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  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
    Their unofficial "moderate Pubs" caucus has just been cut off at the knees, though. They'd have more power caucusing with the Dems and throwing in with Bayh's semi-fictional ConservaDem caucus.
    Well, until Franken is seated they still have power. And they've been doing the "moderate Pub" thing for years. That's one of the reasons they're so popular. Maine's kind of conservative, but it's still New England.

    Even after they're going to have a lot of pull. Just because we have 60 votes on paper doesn't mean they'll actually show up, and even if they do that they won't demand a pound of flesh for their vote. It'll give leadership a bit more leverage if they have the stones to use it, but at the end of the day we're almost certain to lose people from the Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh rump on anything worth doing and need Collins, Snowe, and maybe Vionovich to make up for it.

    werehippy on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”

    :lol:

    HamHamJ on
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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.

    I mean its not like Specter is particularly popular among PA Dems. A 71/28 split for Dems isn't huge by partisan standards (in 06) but for a long term incumbent its not tiny either. I'd think it would take more than neutrality to make him a favorite in the Dem primary and that's assuming a real big name like Rendell (or even Nutter) doesn't challenge him.
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.

    1/2 of the above is true.

    PantsB on
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”

    Well...that's half true.

    SyphonBlue on
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  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Nor are all Republicans guaranteed to unite on a filibuster. But that's why I said if he becomes part of the democrat bloc as a whole, trying to stop filibusters, it will increase the likelihood of bills being passed with no republican support.

    Good. I know I'm pretty tired of bipartisan bullshit half measures. WOO partisanship!

    Actually, I was just about to say this, but I bet dollars to donuts that's how EFCA will play out, and ideally the same on a lot of other issues. On EFCA he can vote for cloture (to keep government functioning and allow the measure a fair up and down vote) while still staying with his word of voting against it on the up or down. With any luck this'll play out on other issues too, because at the end of the if we can get that it's worth letting Specter get a free ride.

    werehippy on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    werehippy wrote: »
    It'll give leadership a bit more leverage if they have the stones to use it, but at the end of the day we're almost certain to lose people from the Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh rump on anything worth doing and need Collins, Snowe, and maybe Vionovich to make up for it.

    Its a lot more difficult to play moderate when you become the de facto opposition. Previously they could point to the GOP and say "we have to compromise or they'll filibuster!" Now the only thing between cloture (once Franken is seated) and a filibuster is their unity. I think we'll see more "up and down" rhetoric out of them now (at least I hope) with votes for cloture but against the bill as their cover

    PantsB on
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  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.

    It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.

    werehippy on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Caaba Beankomy XobthroRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”

    Clearly he believes in nothing! NOTHING!


    bg8kg1.jpg

    ^Arlen Spector^

    "we believe in nothing Lebowski"

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    That's oddly reality-based for an RNC chair. Except the part about Toomey actually winning the Senate seat, but I can forgive that.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • xa52xa52 Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.

    xa52 on
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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    werehippy wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.

    It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.

    He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.

    Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.

    PantsB on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    xa52 wrote: »
    I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.

    Yeah, I dont get it either.

    geckahn on
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    I'll reiterate my initial comment: Holy crap.
    From his official statement:
    My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans. Unlike Senator Jeffords’ switch which changed party control, I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free Choice (Card Check) will not change.

    This seems more than a little odd to me. He's got a history with labor, and now that he's switching being against EFCA will hurt in the primary rather than help. Wonder what he's thinking.

    Yeah this seems idiotic. Card check is down the list on priorities for me but it seems dumb to switch parties, thus burning bridges with the GOP and still refuse to budge on an issue that would help quite a bit in terms of unions.

    I would hope that what this actually means is that he has realized that his views actually lie closer to the democrats and should thus label himself a democrat. His views won't change, its just that they are mainly democractic views.

    tbloxham on
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

    Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?

    Quid on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Pennsylvania's primary is closed, which was a cause of much rending and gnashing of teeth as you'll recall around here 51 weeks ago.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

    Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
    Non-Republican principles aren't really principles.

    OptimusZed on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

    Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?

    Why, one could indeed say that. If one weren't the dumbass selected by the RNC to run the ship aground.

    Really, it's really a matter of Specter's views/record not lining up particularly well with either party, but the GOP suddenly becoming batshit insane.

    If you're going to have friction between you and your party, it might as well be a sane party.

    At least, that's how I like to think of it.
    Non-Republican principles aren't really principles.

    Is that the same way standards are a liberal trap?

    mcdermott on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Caaba Beankomy XobthroRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

    Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?

    Pft. Silly quid. Only republicans have principles.

    JebusUD on
    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Non-Republican principles aren't really principles.

    Is that the same way standards are a liberal trap?
    And taxation is white slavery.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Michael Steele with a reaction:
    "Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

    Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?

    Why, one could indeed say that. If one weren't the dumbass selected by the RNC to run the ship aground.

    Really, it's really a matter of Specter's views/record not lining up particularly well with either party, but the GOP suddenly becoming batshit insane.
    To be fair Specter is also pretty blatant in his pandering and bat shit insanity.

    PantsB on
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  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    werehippy wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.

    It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.

    He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.

    Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.

    Now I very much want to see some post-announcement poll numbers for Rendell. He's unpopular as hell in the sticks, but that was dead ender territory anyway, and if Rendell is popular enough to win the Dem primary and someone like Toomey gets the R nod he way well win by default.

    werehippy on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    werehippy wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    werehippy wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.

    It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.

    He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.

    Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.

    Now I very much want to see some post-announcement poll numbers for Rendell. He's unpopular as hell in the sticks, but that was dead ender territory anyway, and if Rendell is popular enough to win the Dem primary and someone like Toomey gets the R nod he way well win by default.
    Rendell won't primary Specter. They're practically life-partners at this point.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    60!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We dont need to wait 2 years. fuck yes.

    Does this make sixty? Once Franken gets seated?

    Yes it does.

    The question is, can the Dems use this as leverage against Bayh, Nelson, etc. They won't have the excuse of needing Republicans to provide cover any more.

    Back to the first page, at least with regards to Nelson, this provides no leverage.

    What do you think the Democrats can actually do to Nelson? If they pull support from him during a primary, they effectively concede the election and you will get a republican in his place. The man has huge approval ratings in Nebraska, and is a Senator in a fairly conservative state.

    Unless Democrats want to take up the mantle of losing elections again, they won't do anything to Nelson. Blue Dog Democrats don't arise in a vacuum, and failing to recognize that will lead to trouble.

    Also, I don't think EFCA is going to pass anyhow. A bunch of business groups have lobbied extensively against it, including comapnies that aren't really considered paragons of evil (Costco comes to mind) and furthermore, unions aren't the powerhouse they once were. Its future seems very much in doubt.

    Saammiel on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    yeah, thats not gonna happen. I guarantee Rendell was heavily involved in getting him to switch.

    geckahn on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    xa52 wrote: »
    I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.

    Yeah, I dont get it either.

    People with power (perceived or real) don't like to give it up?

    inconceivable-1.jpg

    Delzhand on
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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    And by the way, if you want to talk Republican purging... this isn't even the only story on that front today.

    Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr., rising star out of Utah, got an appearance in Michigan canceled on him because he's not conservative enough.

    So there's that. It's like watching a train wreck, where you think all the cars have overturned and it's horrible, and then there's a rift in the space-time continuum and six flaming propane trucks come out of the sky at Mach 1. It's still horrible, but now it's strangely awesome.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    xa52 wrote: »
    I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.
    Probably because of all the opportunities to spend time with a hooker that they just don't get at home.

    Hoz on
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