Well, it's Sephiroth that says it, but it's Jenova saying it through one of the many Sephiroth-shaped bodies she has running around the world at the time. So it's kinda both. Except Sephiroth isn't thinking it, because he's just a puppet also. Or at least, the body in his shape that Jenova is using to atagonise the world because Sephiroth is a famous, feared figure is a puppet. Because the real Sephiroth is in the bottom of the northern crater after getting thrown into the lifestream. Well, it's just his remains but it's still the real oh god ive gone cross eyed
Your last line is so much funnier then it has any right to be. I'm still laughing at the most appropriate Austin Powers reference I've ever seen on these or any other boards.
Sometimes, I get the impression that the FF VII development team had those two really great ideas for a story, wrote them down and then filled the space between them first with question marks, then with some more question marks, and finally a little remark saying "A wizard / lifestream / amnesia / Hojo did it".
And then, there's a little arrow pointing to a retcon.
Oh, and by the way: if you want to know any more about just what kind of person Hojo is- he wanted to guarantee the Cetra would survive long enough to provide another specimen. His idea?
HAVE A DOG RAPE AERIS
I refuse to believe there went as much thought in there as would be required to justify it on any basis.
Wingo on
0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
This is a great read. I still don't like FFVIII, but it does make me appreciate it a bit more.
It's made me appreciate the character of Squall a lot more... And at the same time dislike the rest of the cast a fair bit (except Laguna, Kiros and Ward). I mean at the end of the day, they all can be compared to facets of Squall's personality that have manifested into his teammates. In a weird Captain Planet sort of way, he's got the charisma of Irvine, he's confident like Zell, as smart as Quistis and (on very rare occassions) as outgoing as Selphie. Really, Selphie would've been a better figure to bring him out of his shell since they're complete opposites, and Rinoa just feels so forced on him.
This is a great read. I still don't like FFVIII, but it does make me appreciate it a bit more.
Admittedly, my memory is hazy as I haven't played VIII in a long time, but I always felt that its characterization was one of its weakest aspects. The supporting party characters (read: people not named Squall or Rinoa) more or less spoke with the same voice. Aside from their brief introductory bits, they never really felt like individuals to me.
And, even as a semi-angsty teenager myself, Seifer never felt legitimate to me. He's just too obvious and ham-fisted for me to take seriously. Maybe that's the point, but I remember loathing his appearances in the game when I played it a decade ago.
It's definitely a pretty game, but I think it falls flat in many areas. It's more pretentious than artistic, IMO, and a lot of it feels forced. It doesn't help that the game's seminal moment is home to one of the most grating songs I've ever heard.
[/viii rant]
Nightslyr on
PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948 Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
0
SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
This is a great read. I still don't like FFVIII, but it does make me appreciate it a bit more.
Admittedly, my memory is hazy as I haven't played VIII in a long time, but I always felt that its characterization was one of its weakest aspects. The supporting party characters (read: people not named Squall or Rinoa) more or less spoke with the same voice. Aside from their brief introductory bits, they never really felt like individuals to me.
And, even as a semi-angsty teenager myself, Seifer never felt legitimate to me. He's just too obvious and ham-fisted for me to take seriously. Maybe that's the point, but I remember loathing his appearances in the game when I played it a decade ago.
It's definitely a pretty game, but I think it falls flat in many areas. It's more pretentious than artistic, IMO, and a lot of it feels forced. It doesn't help that the game's seminal moment is home to one of the most grating songs I've ever heard.
[/viii rant]
I think the intent was for them just to all be foil for Squall (sans Rinoa, who's clearly the leading lady) but most of them get some quite nice characterisation moments of their own:
Selphie gets her trip back to Trabia, her previous garden, as well as putting on the concert and the blog. Meanwhile, Zell gets the library girl who has a crush on him, and the "occupation" of Balamb town could be seen as that too. Heck, Quistis is even the secret King of Cards.
It all points towards the characters having lives and things going on outside of the main quest, which I think fleshes them out quite nicely.
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
Yeah, that is pretty fucking bad, I'm not going to try and defend it or justify it. That's downright bad storytelling right there.
Selphie gets her trip back to Trabia, her previous garden, as well as putting on the concert and the blog. Meanwhile, Zell gets the library girl who has a crush on him, and the "occupation" of Balamb town could be seen as that too. Heck, Quistis is even the secret King of Cards.
It all points towards the characters having lives and things going on outside of the main quest, which I think fleshes them out quite nicely.
To be honest, I don't remember those parts clearly, except for Quistis and the concert (which bored me, as it was merely another opportunity to shove Rinoa in my face). And, IIRC, the Quistis bit was primarily a "I do have a life outside of the classroom" joke, not something that really added much value to her as a character.
Most of what I remember of VIII was loathing it while I played it. I found a lot of it to be eye-rollingly bad as I went through it. I beat it once because it was a Final Fantasy game, but haven't touched it since.
Nightslyr on
PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948 Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Selphie gets her trip back to Trabia, her previous garden, as well as putting on the concert and the blog. Meanwhile, Zell gets the library girl who has a crush on him, and the "occupation" of Balamb town could be seen as that too. Heck, Quistis is even the secret King of Cards.
It all points towards the characters having lives and things going on outside of the main quest, which I think fleshes them out quite nicely.
To be honest, I don't remember those parts clearly, except for Quistis and the concert (which bored me, as it was merely another opportunity to shove Rinoa in my face). And, IIRC, the Quistis bit was primarily a "I do have a life outside of the classroom" joke, not something that really added much value to her as a character.
Most of what I remember of VIII was loathing it while I played it. I found a lot of it to be eye-rollingly bad as I went through it. I beat it once because it was a Final Fantasy game, but haven't touched it since.
Rinoa really does steal way too much of the focus, even for a leading lady. You're probably right about the Quistis thing, since I was never good at Triple Triad (loved it though - so much fun). Her and Irvine get kinda screwed over when it comes to characterisation, but there's decent development for Zell and Selphie at least.
Strangely, FFVIII is the one that I levelled up the most in and spent the most time on (one of my old save files has Squall at level 87, I think), and isn't that the one with scaleable enemy levels, so in the end it isn't really an issue? I'm trying to think what kept me glued to the game like FFIX and Tales of Symphonia did, and I'm really drawing a blank.
In regards to purchasing FF7 for PSP outside the 'States (specifically, Australia), I've made an American PSN account with an American street address pulled from somewhere. However, it wants to link this address to my credit card information. Is this going to be a problem? Has anyone else done this and successfully purchased through a US account outside of the US?
I tried this and it rejected my card as the billing address was wrong. In the end it didn't matter as it was up on the Euro PSN the next day. The only way I can see to get around this would be to buy a US PSN card off eBay and add cash to your wallet that way. Does anyone have any experience of this?
Way late with this but yes, but yes you need to buy cards.
Looking at some of the artwork for dissidia, Nomura definitely needs to be charged with doing art for a more medieval fantasy FF game. I may not care for a lot of his regular designs, but good god the guy can draw some bad ass looking armor.
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
The orphanage bit is a really great plot hook that didn't quite work.
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
The orphanage bit is a really great plot hook that didn't quite work.
If it had been hinted at through the game up to the point through party dialogue, or even had more and more clues dropped about possible negative side effects of Guardian Force junctioning, it'd probably have been a nice, dark twist to the plot, especially if it were expanded upon afterwards. Instead, we got something along the lines of: "GF must've destroyed our memories! Let's keep using GF!" and then nothing is spoken of it again.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
The orphanage bit is a really great plot hook that didn't quite work.
If it had been hinted at through the game up to the point through party dialogue, or even had more and more clues dropped about possible negative side effects of Guardian Force junctioning, it'd probably have been a nice, dark twist to the plot, especially if it were expanded upon afterwards. Instead, we got something along the lines of: "GF must've destroyed our memories! Let's keep using GF!" and then nothing is spoken of it again.
IIRC, it was actually hinted at about the memory loss a couple times, however my big problem with that scene was the bolded
Whenever I startto appreciate FFVIII a bit too much I always just remember the fucking awful orphanage bit and it snaps me out of it. There's no justification for that beyond "Oh shit, plothole! Fix it fix it fix it!"
The orphanage bit is a really great plot hook that didn't quite work.
If it had been hinted at through the game up to the point through party dialogue, or even had more and more clues dropped about possible negative side effects of Guardian Force junctioning, it'd probably have been a nice, dark twist to the plot, especially if it were expanded upon afterwards. Instead, we got something along the lines of: "GF must've destroyed our memories! Let's keep using GF!" and then nothing is spoken of it again.
IIRC, it was actually hinted at about the memory loss a couple times, however my big problem with that scene was the bolded
Well, they did say they would keep a journal....
So...anyone remember this?
Yeah you do. Honestly, did nobody from Square take a look at these scenes and realized they were severely off their anatomy? And no, I don't believe it was on purpose either.
The only thing dumber was that she was in a coma for seven days. From what? Getting hit by a huge gust of wind? Nobody else was unconscious, or even hurt.
The stock excuse for something going wrong with Tifa is to stick her in a coma.
Momma died? Fancy going through Mt. Nibel on an insane quest to try and find her but you fail? COMA FOR YOU.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
Blackjack on
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
Someone should count through FFVII and AC just to see how many times Tifa loses consciousness, it just gets absurd in the end.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
Someone should count through FFVII and AC just to see how many times Tifa loses consciousness, it just gets absurd in the end.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
That's... Surprisingly true.
The closest thing to a deconstruction of that in a Final Fantasy game I can think of would be
the raid on Bevelle in Final Fantasy X, in which Yuna fails (mostly) because the man comes to save her.
At least it gave us the really cool bit where she jumps off the tower and rides back up on Valefor
The stock excuse for something going wrong with Tifa is to stick her in a coma.
Momma died? Fancy going through Mt. Nibel on an insane quest to try and find her but you fail? COMA FOR YOU.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
The stock excuse for something going wrong with Tifa is to stick her in a coma.
Momma died? Fancy going through Mt. Nibel on an insane quest to try and find her but you fail? COMA FOR YOU.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
The stock excuse for something going wrong with Tifa is to stick her in a coma.
Momma died? Fancy going through Mt. Nibel on an insane quest to try and find her but you fail? COMA FOR YOU.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
Terra?
Garnet?
Ashe?
The entirety of FF X-2?
Garnet? Really? Really?
I'd also make the argument that Ashe only manages to avoid that "strong, independent woman fails so that a man may save her" cliché only because she never really does anything without attaching herself to a strong protective male in the first place, whether Vossler or Basch.
And the Terra point above is counter-balanced by the fact that Celes' first real appearance is when a man saves her after questioning orders. It's an annoying cliché, and whenever a strong female who can be considered a lead does appear in a Final Fantasy game, she's said to be part of an "ensemble cast", so as to diminish her individual importance. See Lightning in FFXIII, which I've seen billed by Square in the past as having an "ensemble cast".
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
The stock excuse for something going wrong with Tifa is to stick her in a coma.
Momma died? Fancy going through Mt. Nibel on an insane quest to try and find her but you fail? COMA FOR YOU.
Well, look, we all know a female character can't actually accomplish anything on her own. She is allowed to try, in order to establish herself as 'strong' and 'independent' but she must promptly fail so that a man may save her.
Terra?
Garnet?
Ashe?
The entirety of FF X-2?
Garnet? Really? Really?
I'd also make the argument that Ashe only manages to avoid that "strong, independent woman fails so that a man may save her" cliché only because she never really does anything without attaching herself to a strong protective male in the first place, whether Vossler or Basch.
I was going to bring that up, as well, but I never finished XII so I wasn't sure if it lasted through the game.
I'd also raise the argument that X-2 doesn't really count, due to lacking major male characters, but I will concede it and point out that Final Fantasy X is actually fairly good about it in general. Except for once (when Rikku nabs her right before joining up), every time Yuna is 'rescued' it turns out she either really, really didn't want you to (Bevelle) or was well on her way to rescuing herself (during the Blitzball tournament. Lulu: "I hope you hurt them." Yuna: "A little.")
And the Terra point above is counter-balanced by the fact that Celes' first real appearance is when a man saves her after questioning orders. It's an annoying cliché, and whenever a strong female who can be considered a lead does appear in a Final Fantasy game, she's said to be part of an "ensemble cast", so as to diminish her individual importance. See Lightning in FFXIII, which I've seen billed by Square in the past as having an "ensemble cast".
Terra also never falls into the "I am a strong independent woman, really. No, really. Um. A little help here" problem because...well. She isn't. Her entire character arc is about her finding love, and learning about how to love, and finding people that will accept her. And I'm not saying that that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a completely different thing.
Feena's rule:
Your average female RPG character carries a variety of deadly weapons and can effortlessly hack or magic her way through armies of monsters, killer cyborgs, and mutated boss creatures without breaking a sweat. She may be an accomplished ninja, a superpowered secret agent, or the world's greatest adventurer. However, if one of the game's villains manages to sneak up and grab her by the Standard Female Character Grab Area (her upper arm) she will be rendered utterly helpless until rescued by the hero.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Rinoa never struck me as smart enough to be a manipulative bitch ("tee-hee that contract had hard words so I had him make this one instead"). Unless you're saying that was an act? I never got that impression, but it has been a while since I've played it, so it's possible I'm just forgetting things.
It's just bad writing I think, but overall in disc 1 she's all like "Oh I like your arch rival but now I like you and you're my guardian oh and you cant leave look at the contract let's have espionage and war against a nation... did I mention my daddy is the head of the military there? Well he is, don't worry about that though!!"
and I'm just thinking damn what a (badly written) bitch
It's just bad writing I think, but overall in disc 1 she's all like "Oh I like your arch rival but now I like you and you're my guardian oh and you cant leave look at the contract let's have espionage and war against a nation... did I mention my daddy is the head of the military there? Well he is, don't worry about that though!!"
and I'm just thinking damn what a (badly written) bitch
Yeah, in the beginning it did kind of seem like see was using you basically to fuel her little feud with daddy(Squall even calls her out on it). But see gets better when they decide to ditch that arc.
I'd also raise the argument that X-2 doesn't really count, due to lacking major male characters, but I will concede it and point out that Final Fantasy X is actually fairly good about it in general. Except for once (when Rikku nabs her right before joining up), every time Yuna is 'rescued' it turns out she either really, really didn't want you to (Bevelle) or was well on her way to rescuing herself (during the Blitzball tournament. Lulu: "I hope you hurt them." Yuna: "A little.")
Not needing to be rescued is nothing, compared to the fact that she spent her whole life knowing that the pilgrimmage was going to kill her and yet still went through with it.
jothki on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
While, I usually stay away from girl power arguments because they just have me rolling my eyes. I will say, yes...X is the best final fantasy. HAHA!
I'd also raise the argument that X-2 doesn't really count, due to lacking major male characters, but I will concede it and point out that Final Fantasy X is actually fairly good about it in general. Except for once (when Rikku nabs her right before joining up), every time Yuna is 'rescued' it turns out she either really, really didn't want you to (Bevelle) or was well on her way to rescuing herself (during the Blitzball tournament. Lulu: "I hope you hurt them." Yuna: "A little.")
Not needing to be rescued is nothing, compared to the fact that she spent her whole life knowing that the pilgrimmage was going to kill her and yet still went through with it.
Well, yes, but that falls more into the "allowed to try" area. :P
But yes. X is good about having strong female characters that are actually strong.
Blackjack on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I'd also raise the argument that X-2 doesn't really count, due to lacking major male characters, but I will concede it and point out that Final Fantasy X is actually fairly good about it in general. Except for once (when Rikku nabs her right before joining up), every time Yuna is 'rescued' it turns out she either really, really didn't want you to (Bevelle) or was well on her way to rescuing herself (during the Blitzball tournament. Lulu: "I hope you hurt them." Yuna: "A little.")
Not needing to be rescued is nothing, compared to the fact that she spent her whole life knowing that the pilgrimmage was going to kill her and yet still went through with it.
Well, yes, but that falls more into the "allowed to try" area. :P
But yes. X is good about having strong female characters that are actually strong.
What about XII? Ashe and Fran certainly were. Penelo may have been pretty decent. I can't remember though.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
That is one thing. I hope they managed to do Lightning well without having the "rawr" trope that most female leads tend to fall into. But I do understand how hard it can be for males(I'm guessing the writing cast is mostly male) to write realistic females. Hell, even Faith from Mirror's Edge suffered from that and she was written by a female.
I know that FFVIII is considered to be the black sheep of the series by most people, but for some reason it always sticks out as one of the more memorable ones for me in terms of enjoying the story and characters. I'm not sure what it is, but I think that if FFVII and FFVIII had been put on PSN at the same time, I'd have bought VIII before VII.
Posts
Your last line is so much funnier then it has any right to be. I'm still laughing at the most appropriate Austin Powers reference I've ever seen on these or any other boards.
And then, there's a little arrow pointing to a retcon.
Oh, and by the way: if you want to know any more about just what kind of person Hojo is- he wanted to guarantee the Cetra would survive long enough to provide another specimen. His idea?
HAVE A DOG RAPE AERIS
I refuse to believe there went as much thought in there as would be required to justify it on any basis.
It's made me appreciate the character of Squall a lot more... And at the same time dislike the rest of the cast a fair bit (except Laguna, Kiros and Ward). I mean at the end of the day, they all can be compared to facets of Squall's personality that have manifested into his teammates. In a weird Captain Planet sort of way, he's got the charisma of Irvine, he's confident like Zell, as smart as Quistis and (on very rare occassions) as outgoing as Selphie. Really, Selphie would've been a better figure to bring him out of his shell since they're complete opposites, and Rinoa just feels so forced on him.
Admittedly, my memory is hazy as I haven't played VIII in a long time, but I always felt that its characterization was one of its weakest aspects. The supporting party characters (read: people not named Squall or Rinoa) more or less spoke with the same voice. Aside from their brief introductory bits, they never really felt like individuals to me.
And, even as a semi-angsty teenager myself, Seifer never felt legitimate to me. He's just too obvious and ham-fisted for me to take seriously. Maybe that's the point, but I remember loathing his appearances in the game when I played it a decade ago.
It's definitely a pretty game, but I think it falls flat in many areas. It's more pretentious than artistic, IMO, and a lot of it feels forced. It doesn't help that the game's seminal moment is home to one of the most grating songs I've ever heard.
[/viii rant]
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
I think the intent was for them just to all be foil for Squall (sans Rinoa, who's clearly the leading lady) but most of them get some quite nice characterisation moments of their own:
It all points towards the characters having lives and things going on outside of the main quest, which I think fleshes them out quite nicely.
Yeah, that is pretty fucking bad, I'm not going to try and defend it or justify it. That's downright bad storytelling right there.
To be honest, I don't remember those parts clearly, except for Quistis and the concert (which bored me, as it was merely another opportunity to shove Rinoa in my face). And, IIRC, the Quistis bit was primarily a "I do have a life outside of the classroom" joke, not something that really added much value to her as a character.
Most of what I remember of VIII was loathing it while I played it. I found a lot of it to be eye-rollingly bad as I went through it. I beat it once because it was a Final Fantasy game, but haven't touched it since.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
I read up until he credited Harry Potter and Buffy for inspiring Pan's Labyrinth, Veronica Mars, and Battle Royale.
Thats just... plain... o_O
Rinoa really does steal way too much of the focus, even for a leading lady. You're probably right about the Quistis thing, since I was never good at Triple Triad (loved it though - so much fun). Her and Irvine get kinda screwed over when it comes to characterisation, but there's decent development for Zell and Selphie at least.
Strangely, FFVIII is the one that I levelled up the most in and spent the most time on (one of my old save files has Squall at level 87, I think), and isn't that the one with scaleable enemy levels, so in the end it isn't really an issue? I'm trying to think what kept me glued to the game like FFIX and Tales of Symphonia did, and I'm really drawing a blank.
Way late with this but yes, but yes you need to buy cards.
Also, FFIV, VI, VII, and IX can suck it.
Pan's Labyrinth and Veronica Mars I can see, but Battle Royale is stretching it.
The Pipe Vault|Twitter|Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
If it had been hinted at through the game up to the point through party dialogue, or even had more and more clues dropped about possible negative side effects of Guardian Force junctioning, it'd probably have been a nice, dark twist to the plot, especially if it were expanded upon afterwards. Instead, we got something along the lines of: "GF must've destroyed our memories! Let's keep using GF!" and then nothing is spoken of it again.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
IIRC, it was actually hinted at about the memory loss a couple times, however my big problem with that scene was the bolded
The Pipe Vault|Twitter|Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
Well, they did say they would keep a journal....
So...anyone remember this?
Yeah you do. Honestly, did nobody from Square take a look at these scenes and realized they were severely off their anatomy? And no, I don't believe it was on purpose either.
The only thing dumber was that she was in a coma for seven days. From what? Getting hit by a huge gust of wind? Nobody else was unconscious, or even hurt.
Kingdom Hearts May Cry.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
That's... Surprisingly true.
At least it gave us the really cool bit where she jumps off the tower and rides back up on Valefor
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Terra?
Garnet?
Ashe?
The entirety of FF X-2?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I'd also make the argument that Ashe only manages to avoid that "strong, independent woman fails so that a man may save her" cliché only because she never really does anything without attaching herself to a strong protective male in the first place, whether Vossler or Basch.
And the Terra point above is counter-balanced by the fact that Celes' first real appearance is when a man saves her after questioning orders. It's an annoying cliché, and whenever a strong female who can be considered a lead does appear in a Final Fantasy game, she's said to be part of an "ensemble cast", so as to diminish her individual importance. See Lightning in FFXIII, which I've seen billed by Square in the past as having an "ensemble cast".
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Anyway, there can only be one
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
I'd also raise the argument that X-2 doesn't really count, due to lacking major male characters, but I will concede it and point out that Final Fantasy X is actually fairly good about it in general. Except for once (when Rikku nabs her right before joining up), every time Yuna is 'rescued' it turns out she either really, really didn't want you to (Bevelle) or was well on her way to rescuing herself (during the Blitzball tournament. Lulu: "I hope you hurt them." Yuna: "A little.")
Terra also never falls into the "I am a strong independent woman, really. No, really. Um. A little help here" problem because...well. She isn't. Her entire character arc is about her finding love, and learning about how to love, and finding people that will accept her. And I'm not saying that that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a completely different thing.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Your average female RPG character carries a variety of deadly weapons and can effortlessly hack or magic her way through armies of monsters, killer cyborgs, and mutated boss creatures without breaking a sweat. She may be an accomplished ninja, a superpowered secret agent, or the world's greatest adventurer. However, if one of the game's villains manages to sneak up and grab her by the Standard Female Character Grab Area (her upper arm) she will be rendered utterly helpless until rescued by the hero.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
and I'm just thinking damn what a (badly written) bitch
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Yeah, in the beginning it did kind of seem like see was using you basically to fuel her little feud with daddy(Squall even calls her out on it). But see gets better when they decide to ditch that arc.
Not needing to be rescued is nothing, compared to the fact that she spent her whole life knowing that the pilgrimmage was going to kill her and yet still went through with it.
But yes. X is good about having strong female characters that are actually strong.
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What about XII? Ashe and Fran certainly were. Penelo may have been pretty decent. I can't remember though.