How does this qualify as his shortcoming, if it is a shortcoming?
When you are a leader, you take responsibility when things go well, but you also take responsibility when things fucked, whether you did anything or not.
How the Hell is Obama responsible for the entire Republican congress being jackasses that refuse to compromise?
Someone here said it. There are two kinds of responsible. A captain responsible for whatever happens on his ship, and then there's actually being in control of a situation.
But the captain/ship thing isn't really apt either. A captain is in charge of a ship, responsible for the ship. Obama isn't responsible for congress. He's not in charge of them.
How does this qualify as his shortcoming, if it is a shortcoming?
When you are a leader, you take responsibility when things go well, but you also take responsibility when things fucked, whether you did anything or not.
How the Hell is Obama responsible for the entire Republican congress being jackasses that refuse to compromise?
Someone here said it. There are two kinds of responsible. A captain responsible for whatever happens on his ship, and then there's actually being in control of a situation.
But the captain/ship thing isn't really apt either. A captain is in charge of a ship, responsible for the ship. Obama isn't responsible for congress. He's not in charge of them.
Plus, if half of the crew on the ship are pirates, the captain can't control how they'll act. He can try treating them like equals, but that's not gonna stop the pirates from blowing up the rum storage.. room (?), if they so choose to.
In the end, he's still human.
evilintent on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
It doesn't help that the Republicans seem to just not agree to try and make his life hell.
Obama offers to discuss matters of pertinence with republicans, and wants to reach a compromise that will make both sides somewhat happy. Republicans sniff his hand, growl menacingly, piss on his hand, bite it, then fart in his face.
Not to be flippant, but that's basically what the Dems did under Bush with the GOP majority.
Absurd. The Democrats constantly caved over the course of those six years, and the two afterwards as well.
Also, Obs, you cannot magically make someone willing to compromise when the only thing they're willing to do is try to stab you in the back. Or the front. It is neither Obama's fault nor his responsibility that every Republican in Congress is being a whiny-ass titty baby.
It doesn't help that the Republicans seem to just not agree to try and make his life hell.
Being dickheads for the sake of being dickheads. Now I understand playing devil's advocate, and I'm all for that. But this is really just too fucking far. Someone needs to go to a GOP assembly and pimpslap each and everyone of them back to their senses.
Plus, if half of the crew on the ship are pirates, the captain can't control how they'll act. He can try treating them like equals, but that's not gonna stop the pirates from blowing up the rum storage.. room (?), if they so choose to.
In the end, he's still human.
Nah, he's still responsible for letting them on in the first place. It's his ship. He's the one that picks the people that work on it.
Obama did not pick anyone in congress. It's more like expecting him to be responsible for his crazy next door neighbor's kid that won't be happy until they own his house.
So, wait, I'm confused about how we're supposed to discern bipartisanship. Is it seriously about the end result vote tally and not about the process of sausage making that occurs among the legislators?
If that is to be the case then Obama proposing H.R. 1281: 'The Puppies, American Flags, and Apple Pie are Awesome Bill' is the absolute height of bi-partisanship, no? Would such a proposal raise his estimation in your eyes even though it's little more than a stupid waste of time and rank pablum?
January 27, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Obama made a campaign trip of sorts on Tuesday to seek bipartisan support for his economic stimulus plan, visiting Republicans on Capitol Hill and suggesting that he was open to some limited revisions that would address their demands for more tax cuts.
...
But, Republicans interviewed after the meeting said, Mr. Obama told them he would listen to proposals to expand on provisions cutting taxes for small businesses and would be open to corporate tax cuts as well if Republicans cooperated to close tax loopholes for big business.
...
“This was not a drive-by P.R. stunt, and I actually thought it might be,†said Representative Zach Wamp, Republican of Tennessee. “It was a substantive, in-depth discussion with our conference, and he’s very effective.â€
“He knows that the debt and the deficit are huge long-term problems as well,†Mr. Wamp said, “and he made a compelling case. He sounded, frankly, a lot like a Republican.â€
...
Mr. Obama spoke to House Republicans for about 10 minutes and then took about a dozen questions for an hour, members said. He emphasized the seriousness of the economic emergency and lamented, “I would love to not have to spend this money.â€
When reminded that he was late for his Senate meeting, he joked that “my former colleagues can wait,†drawing his biggest applause from the House lawmakers.
That should actually count against him providing a good faith effort towards bipartisanship because the minority whipped votes in order to make a monolithic fuck you? I'm rather confused.
So, wait, I'm confused about how we're supposed to discern bipartisanship. Is it seriously about the end result vote tally and not about the process of sausage making that occurs among the legislators?
If that is to be the case then Obama proposing H.R. 1281: 'The Puppies, American Flags, and Apple Pie are Awesome Bill' is the absolute height of bi-partisanship, no? Would such a proposal raise his estimation in your eyes even though it's little more than a stupid waste of time and rank pablum?
January 27, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Obama made a campaign trip of sorts on Tuesday to seek bipartisan support for his economic stimulus plan, visiting Republicans on Capitol Hill and suggesting that he was open to some limited revisions that would address their demands for more tax cuts.
...
But, Republicans interviewed after the meeting said, Mr. Obama told them he would listen to proposals to expand on provisions cutting taxes for small businesses and would be open to corporate tax cuts as well if Republicans cooperated to close tax loopholes for big business.
...
“This was not a drive-by P.R. stunt, and I actually thought it might be,” said Representative Zach Wamp, Republican of Tennessee. “It was a substantive, in-depth discussion with our conference, and he’s very effective.”
“He knows that the debt and the deficit are huge long-term problems as well,” Mr. Wamp said, “and he made a compelling case. He sounded, frankly, a lot like a Republican.”
...
Mr. Obama spoke to House Republicans for about 10 minutes and then took about a dozen questions for an hour, members said. He emphasized the seriousness of the economic emergency and lamented, “I would love to not have to spend this money.”
When reminded that he was late for his Senate meeting, he joked that “my former colleagues can wait,” drawing his biggest applause from the House lawmakers.
That should actually count against him providing a good faith effort towards bipartisanship because the minority whipped votes in order to make a monolithic fuck you? I'm rather confused.
They're pissed off, probably because Obama has effectively soothed them. You don't think that if the Republicans had a majority right now with a Republican President in power the Democrats would not be doing the exact same shit? They'd be doing it even worse.
Also, can you cite the 'more bipartisanship' in George Bush's first year?
Bush Tax cuts for example. Lots of Democrats voted in favor
Congratulations on providing an example that blatantly contradicts the point you're trying to make.
Not to mention, you literally cannot be more obstructionist than zero votes without like, assassinating members of the other party so their votes can't be counted. You can't provide negative votes.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Exactly.
Because he has the common sense to not be a dick who forces his opinions on others and basically stomps his foot in the ground and proclaims 'I AM EVERYTHING'?
evilintent on
0
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Exactly.
Because he can't use 9/11 to manipulate the public into seeing anyone who disagrees with him as a traitor?
Yeah, this is the answer I agree with. I thought it was pretty much a given after 9/11 that the Bush administration got its way, or "the terrorists would win". In his defense, Bush isn't very bright, and so many people were scared shitless that their convictions otherwise might not have felt that strong in comparison.
Well, it's mostly because the Republican Party is making the same fundamental mistake the Bush Democratic Party did, which is to assume that the country is fundamentally right wing. The Democrats thought by looking like Republicans on "national security" issues, they could be right wing enough to win upcoming elections by being GOP-lite. This was dumb.
The Republicans think that they'll come back to prominence by being super right wing, so oppose everything the moderately liberal President is presenting. This is just as dumb.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Exactly.
What the fuck is wrong with you? What is so fucked up in your head that you're apprently advocating another terrorist attack on American soil? You need serious help.
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Because the Democratic minority in 2001 was actually committed to bipartisanship while the Republican minority in 2009 is not?
And the awesome thing is that Obama doesn't need to make the Republicans in Congress "cave".
You know what he could do to really add insult to injury?
Make gun laws strict as fuck.
*that comes on the news*
The anguished screams of a thousand billion damned souls are heard from every GOP assembly in the country.
Weeee!
E: Again with the fucking TOTP.
Or he could just hammer through the Freedom of Choice Act, but both of these things would be retarded to actually do right now, as you don't want to piss off anti-choice Democrats like Bob Casey (D-PA) before you get health care, energy, and education done. For guns it would be Tester, Webb, and others from the border South and Mountain West.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Because the Democratic minority in 2001 was actually committed to bipartisanship while the Republican minority in 2009 is not?
And the awesome thing is that Obama doesn't need to make the Republicans in Congress "cave".
You know what he could do to really add insult to injury?
Make gun laws strict as fuck.
*that comes on the news*
The anguished screams of a thousand billion damned souls are heard from every GOP assembly in the country.
Weeee!
E: Again with the fucking TOTP.
Or he could just hammer through the Freedom of Choice Act, but both of these things would be retarded to actually do right now, as you don't want to piss off anti-choice Democrats like Bob Casey (D-PA) before you get health care, energy, and education done. For guns it would be Tester, Webb, and others from the border South and Mountain West.
I'd much sooner have any "Suck it, Republican Congressional minority" cards be played to get a progressive judge onto the SCOTUS and/or to get healthcare reform passed.
Lawndart on
0
Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Because the Democratic minority in 2001 was actually committed to bipartisanship while the Republican minority in 2009 is not?
And the awesome thing is that Obama doesn't need to make the Republicans in Congress "cave".
You know what he could do to really add insult to injury?
Make gun laws strict as fuck.
*that comes on the news*
The anguished screams of a thousand billion damned souls are heard from every GOP assembly in the country.
And then a thousand cries of grief from a couple dozen more cop shootings. That's a really fucking stupid idea.
Erm. Stricter gun (control) laws.
What?
Oh, right, I forgot, those laws would be effectively implemented immediately and make the guns in possession of people who would do this vanish. Seriously, having laws isn't the same as having them enforced.
So why can't Obama make Republicans cave the way Bush made Democrats cave?
Because the Democratic minority in 2001 was actually committed to bipartisanship while the Republican minority in 2009 is not?
And the awesome thing is that Obama doesn't need to make the Republicans in Congress "cave".
You know what he could do to really add insult to injury?
Make gun laws strict as fuck.
*that comes on the news*
The anguished screams of a thousand billion damned souls are heard from every GOP assembly in the country.
And then a thousand cries of grief from a couple dozen more cop shootings. That's a really fucking stupid idea.
Erm. Stricter gun (control) laws.
What?
Oh, right, I forgot, those laws would be effectively implemented immediately and make the guns in possession of people who would do this vanish. Seriously, having laws isn't the same as having them enforced.
It's a joke. I wasn't advocating him doing that (at least not right now).
Posts
Indeed. Co-equal branches.
In the end, he's still human.
Also, Obs, you cannot magically make someone willing to compromise when the only thing they're willing to do is try to stab you in the back. Or the front. It is neither Obama's fault nor his responsibility that every Republican in Congress is being a whiny-ass titty baby.
Being dickheads for the sake of being dickheads. Now I understand playing devil's advocate, and I'm all for that. But this is really just too fucking far. Someone needs to go to a GOP assembly and pimpslap each and everyone of them back to their senses.
Obama did not pick anyone in congress. It's more like expecting him to be responsible for his crazy next door neighbor's kid that won't be happy until they own his house.
If that is to be the case then Obama proposing H.R. 1281: 'The Puppies, American Flags, and Apple Pie are Awesome Bill' is the absolute height of bi-partisanship, no? Would such a proposal raise his estimation in your eyes even though it's little more than a stupid waste of time and rank pablum?
Meanwhile actions such as these:
That should actually count against him providing a good faith effort towards bipartisanship because the minority whipped votes in order to make a monolithic fuck you? I'm rather confused.
We all are. We all are...
Congratulations on providing an example that blatantly contradicts the point you're trying to make.
Exactly.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Because he can't use 9/11 to manipulate the public into seeing anyone who disagrees with him as a traitor?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Because he has the common sense to not be a dick who forces his opinions on others and basically stomps his foot in the ground and proclaims 'I AM EVERYTHING'?
NNID: Hakkekage
Hey, Joe Lieberman isn't in the Senate leadership.
Yeah, this is the answer I agree with. I thought it was pretty much a given after 9/11 that the Bush administration got its way, or "the terrorists would win". In his defense, Bush isn't very bright, and so many people were scared shitless that their convictions otherwise might not have felt that strong in comparison.
Because the Republicans don't give a fuck about the country compared to their own political interests.
The Republicans think that they'll come back to prominence by being super right wing, so oppose everything the moderately liberal President is presenting. This is just as dumb.
Well, not really.
Because the Democratic minority in 2001 was actually committed to bipartisanship while the Republican minority in 2009 is not?
And the awesome thing is that Obama doesn't need to make the Republicans in Congress "cave".
You know what he could do to really add insult to injury?
Make gun laws strict as fuck.
*that comes on the news*
The anguished screams of a thousand billion damned souls are heard from every GOP assembly in the country.
Weeee!
E: Again with the fucking TOTP.
Or he could just hammer through the Freedom of Choice Act, but both of these things would be retarded to actually do right now, as you don't want to piss off anti-choice Democrats like Bob Casey (D-PA) before you get health care, energy, and education done. For guns it would be Tester, Webb, and others from the border South and Mountain West.
Really obs? really?
Your Definition of bipartisan is making the other party cave?
Are you Really that dumb?
I'd much sooner have any "Suck it, Republican Congressional minority" cards be played to get a progressive judge onto the SCOTUS and/or to get healthcare reform passed.
Oh, I thought he was faking it. This explains so much.
Erm. Stricter gun (control) laws.
What?
@ZV: True, but I was going with something that would fly more easily. Even dems are split on the gay marriage thing. Dem |= liberal as Denmark
Gun control, no matter anyone's individual stance, is politically off the table for a while.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It's a joke. I wasn't advocating him doing that (at least not right now).
Lighten up, just a teeny bit.
Can we still do this?
What's the connection between your last post and the last page of posts?