Ooof. A well done Star Wars: Rogue Smuggler space sim, with trading, smuggling, bounty hunting and a sweet selection of ships like Firesprays and Corellian freighters...
Excuse me, I need to be... uhm, by myself for about fifteen minutes.
How could you be a non-rogue smuggler?
Don't shoot first?
I think that might just be a courier who doesn't care what they're transporting.
Most couriers don't go around shooting and spouting off witty one-liners and wearing vests.
The more we talk about this, the more I think of L4D and the balance it makes between AI and Multiplayer, you are essentially playing the same game either way but you are enjoying different tactics and strategies with people than you do with AI.
I don't think this would work with teh sandbox mechanic we all crave in the SW universe
Random bad idea
Going beyond the rim just for poops and giggles, opening THAT pandora's box during the time of the empire and seeing how the Emperor and Lord Vader with their secret apprentices and assassins would have handled the threat
Ooof. A well done Star Wars: Rogue Smuggler space sim, with trading, smuggling, bounty hunting and a sweet selection of ships like Firesprays and Corellian freighters...
Excuse me, I need to be... uhm, by myself for about fifteen minutes.
How could you be a non-rogue smuggler?
Just saying, that someone with some influence should mention this awesome idea to someone in the know.
I wonder who could do that....
Just saying.....
I know its such a niche market that it will probably never happen but fuck, I would sell my ex-wife for something like this.
I have an MS Sidewinder 2 force feedback, and I'm looking for something with a separate throttle stick (not the little lever-thingie).
How does the Saitek X52 stack up?
I've been using the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS. It is pretty awesome, though the extra strafe axis is kinda useless in most cases.
It's also a hell of a lot cheaper, along the lines of $40-$60.
What's the extra strafe axis?
That thing. It moves left and right. Since most space games don't have a rudder, I'm fine with the roll function being bound to the twistystick.
But it's just another roll function, it is hard-wired to behave exactly the same as the twistystick axis.
EDIT: Also, the throttle is extremely loose, and has a notch in it at 50%. While this would be fucking awesome for Descent, DOSBox doesn't like modern joysticks.
EDITEDIT: Oh, and the stick itself has adjustable resistance. So you can make it require a goodly amount of force to move, or you could have it slip back and forth with barely a touch.
Son of a bitch. I just got my x52 a few months ago and they go and release this beautiful monstrosity. Although I will console myself with the delusion that I would never be able to get used to the non-moving stick.
jamesra on
"Everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction. . . . This tremendous friction . . . is everywhere in contact with chance, and brings about effects that cannot be measured, just because they are largely due to chance" Carl Von Clausezwitz. (1832),
Son of a bitch. I just got my x52 a few months ago and they go and release this beautiful monstrosity. Although I will console myself with the delusion that I would never be able to get used to the non-moving stick.
The things we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
And RE: Russian Space Sims: My beef is that most of them are half assed PRivateer clones. And a bad Priv clone is worse than a decent military space sim. I wish they made a few mission-driven games before trying to tackle the harder-to-develop Priv clones.
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
Ooof. A well done Star Wars: Rogue Smuggler space sim, with trading, smuggling, bounty hunting and a sweet selection of ships like Firesprays and Corellian freighters...
Excuse me, I need to be... uhm, by myself for about fifteen minutes.
How could you be a non-rogue smuggler?
Just saying, that someone with some influence should mention this awesome idea to someone in the know.
I wonder who could do that....
Just saying.....
I know its such a niche market that it will probably never happen but fuck, I would sell my ex-wife for something like this.
I'm not sure "I would sell my ex-wife" is a ringing endorsement. That said, I'd be all over a new Star Wars space sim that wasn't Star Wars: Starfighter 2 or something stupid like that.
I'd buy and install Terran Conflict in a heartbeat if I could find that goddamn awesome Wing Commander mod I used to have for X3, screw the re-learning curve.
I agree with the notion that X3/TC combat isn't the most exciting thing in the world, especially compared with that of Freespace/2. Now, if X4 had X3's deep trading system combined with exciting Freespace-style combat, I'm not sure I'd ever play anything else.
And by the way, despite its age Elite:Frontier is still the best one. Accurate planetary systems simulation. The X series might look nice but it unfortunately fails to capture simulating a star system as this game can. Hell, its simulating an entire galaxy. No gates, only jumpranges. Talk about freedom.
Lets take a second to listen to the autor himself.
And RE: Russian Space Sims: My beef is that most of them are half assed PRivateer clones. And a bad Priv clone is worse than a decent military space sim. I wish they made a few mission-driven games before trying to tackle the harder-to-develop Priv clones.
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
Oh, I fully agree that the flight sims are awesome. But we have to agree that the space sims from Europe in general aren't that great. None of them holds a candle to Privateer or FS2.
And RE: Russian Space Sims: My beef is that most of them are half assed PRivateer clones. And a bad Priv clone is worse than a decent military space sim. I wish they made a few mission-driven games before trying to tackle the harder-to-develop Priv clones.
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
Oh, I fully agree that the flight sims are awesome. But we have to agree that the space sims from Europe in general aren't that great. None of them holds a candle to Privateer or FS2.
The I-War games were from the UK, and I'd put them up there.
But certainly not SFCIII lite. SFCIII lite would be "Push button! YOU WIN!"
My problem with this is the same problem I have with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not so much tactics as going out and grinding for the Cannon + 2 of klingon killing and then just moving around your opponent.
If there is one thing I really enjoyed about WWIIOnline (or any realistic shooter) its that all the number crunching was never visible to the player and there were no "magic" items that did weird stuff to the opponent.
Make the stats invisible, don't give the players "experimental gamma beams that stun the enemy crew" and add some true randomness.
I guess what I'm ranting about is, in WWIIOnline, armor has a hardness and a strength. Projectiles are rated at hardness and the kinetic energy is calculated based on distance and angle of impact. Which is all very boring I know... But you see how there are no hit points? No "I hit him X number of times with weapon B and he dies."
You line up your shot, pray to god he doesn't move and then if the impact overcomes the armor in that area the projectile calculates where it might go and what it might damage. You can take a hit and it may penetrate and nothing will happen, or you take a hit and it shatters inside and the tanks burning... But you don't know if it will or not.
It becomes about making sure to get into position and hoping you get the shot that'll kill that Tiger.
I want that applied to a space game.
Gimme a battle cruiser exchanging long range fire with an enemy ship, if I get hit does it damage the engine room? Medical? Maybe but it's based on where it hits and not a random die roll.
There are some games that do that to some degree but almost all of them work on "hit x times, drop shields, hit x times destroy hull hit points." Bleh. How about "Out of three volleys one hit and penetrated the crusiers mid section. On this class a high probability is that their secondary power plant went down with damage spreading to the armory. The ship turned to make and escape jump but was split in half due to internal explosions. We too three minor hits to no substantial areas and fire crews were able to contain the damage."
Get rid of the fiary dust, gimme a bit of the grit.
And also since I'm ranting I'll tell you how to fix that earlier problem I was accused of being Mr. Smart over.
In the game you have a Primary Avatar. This is your hero, the guy that gains experience (ugh) and accumulates wealth and power to whatever goal you want, ship captain, army leader, planet governer, whatever. At any time however you can jump to a fake character.
Lets say you are out and about on a deep space mission. Your bored. So you flip open the "current conflicts" panel. Hmmm, Space battle at Genevive. Ok go.
You get a list of positions:
The Harkena has 200 marines, 6 pilot slots, 4 gunner slots, and an engineer slot available.
You select a pilot slot.
Boom, you are now a faceless pilot, unnamed by anything except unit designation and a friendly indicator saying your a human. You go flying. Unfortunately you suck and die. There are now 5 slots available (being taken up by AI until you jump in) The Harkena commander nerdrages and bans you from flying any more of his fighters so take the engineer slot and run around fixing stuff, until you get boarded. You jump to a Marine slot and duke it out on the ships deck. After the fight you go back to your ship. Maybe it was during and your AI crew detected something so you got a notification.
So you see where I'm going with this. Make a universe full of AI and then let players jump to any AI slot they are allowed in. Players get big fights going and players join in immediately, no longer are instant jump anywhere instantly mechanics needed. You can go to the fights. There could even be AI controlled frigates for players to join. And if you aren't online you can set a list of friends to handle your ship if it needs it.
This way you can have long travel times and meaningful distances without screwing the player over because the player can just become a dude in whatever fight there is. Add in land battles and governer ships of planets and.... I need to change my pants.
Sonar on
I'm building a real pirate ship. Really. Wanna help? Click here!
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
And RE: Russian Space Sims: My beef is that most of them are half assed PRivateer clones. And a bad Priv clone is worse than a decent military space sim. I wish they made a few mission-driven games before trying to tackle the harder-to-develop Priv clones.
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
Oh, I fully agree that the flight sims are awesome. But we have to agree that the space sims from Europe in general aren't that great. None of them holds a candle to Privateer or FS2.
The I-War games were from the UK, and I'd put them up there.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about them. I was mostly thinking about the more recent games. But you're right.
I will have to disagree with your assessment Sonar, its not just circling the opponent spamming lasers. Sure you CAN play it that way, but you're not going to be nearly as effective as you could be.
It uses the same general combat style that has been around since Star Fleet Battles in the 70s.
GalagaGalaxian on
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
So, that's a dead end. Though I have to say, the bounty hunter aspect sounds a lot better than most of my own experiences with the game in the beta. But, on the other hand, no TIE Defender apparently (looking over the SWG ship list, it does seem to be a little lacking....).
Well, time to start searching through mods.
The space game is twitch, not ground RPG. You need the joystick/mouse to line up the shot, set throttle, fire missiles, etc. There are no real MMO elements to it other than running missions to grind space loot to gain skill boxes and make superior ship components. The shipbuilding and reverse engineering system is nice, say if you have a level 4 shield you're trying to make, you can reverse engineer the best stats of four different loot drop shields (i.e shield intensity, regeneration rate, reactor charge required, mass) to make a uber one with the best of all four stats.
The bounty hunting system is all on land with the exception of a couple of scripted space missions unfortunately. It was still the most fun I've ever had in an MMO, despite the ground game being horrible overall. For example, once I picked up a bounty mission that was on Naboo. I picked up my usual set of buffs and set out to find the person. I landed in Theed and popped off a seeker droid, and shuttled in close to my mark. Hmm, he was apparently in a player city PA hall, which are usually locked. Hell, I'm usually banned from most player cities altogether. I checked, and miraculously it was open! I hit a fast-run sprint stim and bolted in quickly and to my amazement my mark was the leader of the top imperial guild on the server. The new player senator's female toon was there right next to him, and both of their toons were nude. I snapped a few screenshots of the cyber love before they could both put their clothes back on, and I killed my mark before he knew what hit him, earning around a million credits. My bounty hunter shouldered his rifle and walked off without saying another word. I never did. It's just business, and I was very good at it. I however, was laughing my balls off, this was why I played SWG for years.
I will have to disagree with your assessment Sonar, its not just circling the opponent spamming lasers. Sure you CAN play it that way, but you're not going to be nearly as effective as you could be.
It uses the same general combat style that has been around since Star Fleet Battles in the 70s.
I'm aware of the style, hull points, shield points, and all that. I loved Leviathan when it was out for this reason.
Concentrating on one side is still just spamming lasers. You can make the argument that tactics keep you on that side or that it's no different than something more realistic but in the end it's stat crunching. It looks like the buffs are going to be more hidden in STO and disguised by way of the bridge crew providing the buffs, but then again, looking at the preorder incentives maybe not.
And then you add in that role/class idea the devs are spouting about tank ships, DPS ships, and Buff ships and you realize just how thoroughly stuck in the RPG mind set the game is.
Gimme a game where they lose their engine because I hit their engine, not because a die roll determined it.
The reason devs aren't keen to do something like that I think, is due to the way it makes the game susceptible to instant kill. There are no lucky shots, no first volleys that miraculously snap an engine nacelle, no lucky hits of a bridge that disable the crew. I understand why, players that grind so much to earn their ship would sue the company if their uber ship was knocked out almost immediately.
POTBS learned the hard way about this. It takes literally hundreds of days to build the big ships and those ships are the most fragile. Smaller ships have a few lives to waste, but big ships don't. By gaming the game and grinding for the best fittings for your ship (spar + 3, hardened cannon shell [ cannon + 5]) small ships can take the big cumbersome ships easily. I think they wanted Eve on the water, I don't know but there were a lot of mistakes there. In any case, players quite in droves partly because they put in so much effort into those huge ships, which were sunk so easily by the uber players that had no lives and ground, ground, ground for the best stuff... Well they introduced "insurance" to protect those investments, and I'd guess destroyed the player run economy (based on the fragility of ships).
I'm willing to bet even in Eve it takes a capitol ship to one shot the smallest player ship.
Now don't get me wrong, the ST:Universe games are a lot better than some but I think we can do so much better.
Sonar on
I'm building a real pirate ship. Really. Wanna help? Click here!
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
Different folks, different strokes I guess. This game is basically the next Starfleet Battles and Star Fleet Command gameplaywise and I couldn't be happier.
The RPG "Classes" are not nearly as clear cut as some would think. They also make sense in universe.
GalagaGalaxian on
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
There are some games that do that to some degree but almost all of them work on "hit x times, drop shields, hit x times destroy hull hit points." Bleh. How about "Out of three volleys one hit and penetrated the crusiers mid section. On this class a high probability is that their secondary power plant went down with damage spreading to the armory. The ship turned to make and escape jump but was split in half due to internal explosions. We too three minor hits to no substantial areas and fire crews were able to contain the damage."
Get rid of the fiary dust, gimme a bit of the grit.
Smart's game did this somewhat, it still has a "fairy dust" shields and hull point system, but any shot that penetrates a shield is likely to cause internal damage. I took a glancing hull shot once, and ended up with reactor damage and radiation contamination on two decks. Output was cut to some 60%, and my weapons and flight deck shutdown due to lack of power. I had to get engineers with RAD control units to clear the contaminated decks and fix the reactor. Multiple crew took took damage from the attack, and had to go to the medibay. I actually felt like I was commanding a real ship, trying to hold it together in a crisis situation.
The same mechanic applies to AI ships too, and you're just as likely to get a dead enemy wreck floating in space than a fancy explosion. As bad as THE GAME is overall, it has a few shining moments.
That said, I'm having more fun with X3 that I ever did with that game. X3 however, has no internal damage model, or any real indicator other than a slight "shake" when you're being hulled. It also has no cockpit models either unless you use a mod. I still love it though, "spreadsheet game" or not, it's fun.
There are some games that do that to some degree but almost all of them work on "hit x times, drop shields, hit x times destroy hull hit points." Bleh. How about "Out of three volleys one hit and penetrated the crusiers mid section. On this class a high probability is that their secondary power plant went down with damage spreading to the armory. The ship turned to make and escape jump but was split in half due to internal explosions. We too three minor hits to no substantial areas and fire crews were able to contain the damage."
Get rid of the fiary dust, gimme a bit of the grit.
Have you played Bridge Commander? It's got just about the best damage model of any space sim, and there's a mod to suit almost any fancy.
Different folks, different strokes I guess. This game is basically the next Starfleet Battles and Star Fleet Command gameplaywise and I couldn't be happier.
The RPG "Classes" are not nearly as clear cut as some would think. They also make sense in universe.
Maybe "hiding the stats better" is the way to put it. Any computer game has stats, its how they are presented I have problems with. Immersion and all that.
Also, yes I agree with the classes making sense. I still have problems with them, but I'll admit to that much.
X3 Question, I've been trying to get into the game a bit. Which is better to delve in, Reunion + xtended or TC?
Sonar on
I'm building a real pirate ship. Really. Wanna help? Click here!
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
I'm willing to bet even in Eve it takes a capitol ship to one shot the smallest player ship.
Actually, last time I played EVE (years ago) the largest weapons on the biggest battleships couldn't track the smallest ships. You could fire and mostly miss, that's why they introduced intermediate classes for balance. Destroyers mounted many smaller weapons to kill tiny frigates, cruisers could kill destroyers, etc. Things may have changed though, this was a few years ago.
Jules on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
I'm willing to bet even in Eve it takes a capitol ship to one shot the smallest player ship.
Actually, last time I played EVE (years ago) the largest weapons on the biggest battleships couldn't track the smallest ships. You could fire and mostly miss, that's why they introduced intermediate classes for balance. Destroyers mounted many smaller weapons to kill tiny frigates, cruisers could kill destroyers, etc. Things may have changed though, this was a few years ago.
It's been a while since my Frigate Ace days in Eve Online, but unless they completely redesigned the combat (which they haven't), Jules has it right. One of the reasons I loved the Frigates so much was that with minimal investment, good skill training and the right tactics you could really mess with the bigger ships. Back before they nerfed the Sensor Dampeners my Hound Stealth Bomber could cripple a battleships ability to lock targets. Or my Interceptor could cripple the drive systems and/or (depending on the fit) virtually lock down it's ability to maneuver. Sure, your guns would do piddly damage in the scheme of things but I'd usually not even fire on big ships. I'd load light, fast tracking guns and rockets to take down enemy drones. God, I miss Eve Online combat. When it works, it's glorious.
edit: But fuck massive Fleetbattles. Staring at the POS bubble until I have to log off is boring shit. I'd always volunteer for scouting and Forward Edge of Battle skirmishing. Also, fuck MMO's.
Different folks, different strokes I guess. This game is basically the next Starfleet Battles and Star Fleet Command gameplaywise and I couldn't be happier.
The RPG "Classes" are not nearly as clear cut as some would think. They also make sense in universe.
Maybe "hiding the stats better" is the way to put it. Any computer game has stats, its how they are presented I have problems with. Immersion and all that.
Also, yes I agree with the classes making sense. I still have problems with them, but I'll admit to that much.
X3 Question, I've been trying to get into the game a bit. Which is better to delve in, Reunion + xtended or TC?
Terran Conflict. The controls and interface are massively improved and it's much easier to make money, to the point where playing as a pirate or something is viable (not easy, mind you, but possible and enjoyable). There are also more missions readily available at any given time. It still doesn't have the pacing or learning curve of Privateer, but it takes some of the sting out of "space spreadsheets" and gives you more things to actually do. It's a great game, and the first time in the series I haven't felt like I've had to qualify that.
Reunion + Xtended runs better and has a better story, but that's honestly about all it has going for it. And let's be honest, nobody plays this series for the story.
I had this mod for X3, and loved it. It had Confed ships, too, and appropriate weapons for everything. I can't find it in the official forums anymore, unfortunately, and the files themselves are long gone.
And by the way, despite its age Elite:Frontier is still the best one. Accurate planetary systems simulation. The X series might look nice but it unfortunately fails to capture simulating a star system as this game can. Hell, its simulating an entire galaxy. No gates, only jumpranges. Talk about freedom.
Lets take a second to listen to the autor himself.
Just installed X3 and I think that people are confusing "steep learning curve" for "needs a tutorial level that I can skip"
It's not that it's hard, it's that there's just a lot of stuff to learn.
Its the Mass Effect PA comic effect, if you will. I didn't find the ME start that bad (although I'm a dedicated PC gamer, so that may have resulted in changes) but I find every time I start one of the x games that I not only don't know quite what to do, I don't know how to find out how to do it.
A good "So, its your first hour in X3" guide would be really handy.
jamesra on
"Everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction. . . . This tremendous friction . . . is everywhere in contact with chance, and brings about effects that cannot be measured, just because they are largely due to chance" Carl Von Clausezwitz. (1832),
And RE: Russian Space Sims: My beef is that most of them are half assed PRivateer clones. And a bad Priv clone is worse than a decent military space sim. I wish they made a few mission-driven games before trying to tackle the harder-to-develop Priv clones.
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
Oh, I fully agree that the flight sims are awesome. But we have to agree that the space sims from Europe in general aren't that great. None of them holds a candle to Privateer or FS2.
The I-War games were from the UK, and I'd put them up there.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about them. I was mostly thinking about the more recent games. But you're right.
I'll be the first to say that my space sim experience is very limited (it's one of the few 'genres' actually smaller than the flight sim genre, and generally, with a much less flattering history). I can't disagree, however.
So, that's a dead end. Though I have to say, the bounty hunter aspect sounds a lot better than most of my own experiences with the game in the beta. But, on the other hand, no TIE Defender apparently (looking over the SWG ship list, it does seem to be a little lacking....).
Well, time to start searching through mods.
The space game is twitch, not ground RPG. You need the joystick/mouse to line up the shot, set throttle, fire missiles, etc. There are no real MMO elements to it other than running missions to grind space loot to gain skill boxes and make superior ship components. The shipbuilding and reverse engineering system is nice, say if you have a level 4 shield you're trying to make, you can reverse engineer the best stats of four different loot drop shields (i.e shield intensity, regeneration rate, reactor charge required, mass) to make a uber one with the best of all four stats.
The bounty hunting system is all on land with the exception of a couple of scripted space missions unfortunately. It was still the most fun I've ever had in an MMO, despite the ground game being horrible overall. For example, once I picked up a bounty mission that was on Naboo. I picked up my usual set of buffs and set out to find the person. I landed in Theed and popped off a seeker droid, and shuttled in close to my mark. Hmm, he was apparently in a player city PA hall, which are usually locked. Hell, I'm usually banned from most player cities altogether. I checked, and miraculously it was open! I hit a fast-run sprint stim and bolted in quickly and to my amazement my mark was the leader of the top imperial guild on the server. The new player senator's female toon was there right next to him, and both of their toons were nude. I snapped a few screenshots of the cyber love before they could both put their clothes back on, and I killed my mark before he knew what hit him, earning around a million credits. My bounty hunter shouldered his rifle and walked off without saying another word. I never did. It's just business, and I was very good at it. I however, was laughing my balls off, this was why I played SWG for years.
No, I know it's twitch (i.e. like an actual flight game) instead of MMO. I've caught some video of it in the past, which is why it does interest me.
That being said, I'd probably hate any ground combat too much to want to do bounty hunting, even if it was a lot of fun compared to all the other crap. That, and there's a lot of baggage involved (besides the monthly fee). I'm having less and less fun with WoW, so SWG is probably not going to be much better.
You select what you want, it goes online and gets it for you, then sticks it all in the right place. Then you just use the Launcher in your Freespace folder to set up your options and enable the Media VPs that make everything awesome.
Posts
I think that might just be a courier who doesn't care what they're transporting.
Most couriers don't go around shooting and spouting off witty one-liners and wearing vests.
I don't think this would work with teh sandbox mechanic we all crave in the SW universe
Random bad idea
But still, a man can dream.
edit: We all know what he would do.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Just saying, that someone with some influence should mention this awesome idea to someone in the know.
I wonder who could do that....
Just saying.....
I know its such a niche market that it will probably never happen but fuck, I would sell my ex-wife for something like this.
That thing. It moves left and right. Since most space games don't have a rudder, I'm fine with the roll function being bound to the twistystick.
But it's just another roll function, it is hard-wired to behave exactly the same as the twistystick axis.
EDIT: Also, the throttle is extremely loose, and has a notch in it at 50%. While this would be fucking awesome for Descent, DOSBox doesn't like modern joysticks.
EDITEDIT: Oh, and the stick itself has adjustable resistance. So you can make it require a goodly amount of force to move, or you could have it slip back and forth with barely a touch.
I like.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
The things we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
You know, I had no idea, til I looked it up, that there's a hidden Junkers base in the New York system.
http://www.bsg-galactica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14
If we're literally speaking about Russia, the Russian Fed. makes up for it by being the origin of pretty much every single good PC flight simulation that involves warfare in some form in the last five years. Probably longer. Il-2 Sturmovik (and it's numerous incarnation), Lock On: MAC, DCS: Black Shark, etc. For some reason, I'm guessing a national fascination with aviation, Russia completely dominates that market. The only exception is Microsoft (with its FS line), and the occasional half-hearted German attempt. America threw in the towel a while ago, and since Janes' stopped, all we produce is the occasionally crappy Ace Combat knockoff or Battlefield game that has planes. Nothing else compares.
Just thought I'd give credit with credit is due.
I use a Logitech G940, which I'd love to use in a space sim, but TIE Fighter doesn't handle multiple controllers (like most old games), making it ill-suited for HOTAS.
I'm not sure "I would sell my ex-wife" is a ringing endorsement. That said, I'd be all over a new Star Wars space sim that wasn't Star Wars: Starfighter 2 or something stupid like that.
I agree with the notion that X3/TC combat isn't the most exciting thing in the world, especially compared with that of Freespace/2. Now, if X4 had X3's deep trading system combined with exciting Freespace-style combat, I'm not sure I'd ever play anything else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmjhQ8t4ZM
And by the way, despite its age Elite:Frontier is still the best one. Accurate planetary systems simulation. The X series might look nice but it unfortunately fails to capture simulating a star system as this game can. Hell, its simulating an entire galaxy. No gates, only jumpranges. Talk about freedom.
Lets take a second to listen to the autor himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ_Uw55S3o
Oh, I fully agree that the flight sims are awesome. But we have to agree that the space sims from Europe in general aren't that great. None of them holds a candle to Privateer or FS2.
The I-War games were from the UK, and I'd put them up there.
My problem with this is the same problem I have with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not so much tactics as going out and grinding for the Cannon + 2 of klingon killing and then just moving around your opponent.
If there is one thing I really enjoyed about WWIIOnline (or any realistic shooter) its that all the number crunching was never visible to the player and there were no "magic" items that did weird stuff to the opponent.
Make the stats invisible, don't give the players "experimental gamma beams that stun the enemy crew" and add some true randomness.
I guess what I'm ranting about is, in WWIIOnline, armor has a hardness and a strength. Projectiles are rated at hardness and the kinetic energy is calculated based on distance and angle of impact. Which is all very boring I know... But you see how there are no hit points? No "I hit him X number of times with weapon B and he dies."
You line up your shot, pray to god he doesn't move and then if the impact overcomes the armor in that area the projectile calculates where it might go and what it might damage. You can take a hit and it may penetrate and nothing will happen, or you take a hit and it shatters inside and the tanks burning... But you don't know if it will or not.
It becomes about making sure to get into position and hoping you get the shot that'll kill that Tiger.
I want that applied to a space game.
Gimme a battle cruiser exchanging long range fire with an enemy ship, if I get hit does it damage the engine room? Medical? Maybe but it's based on where it hits and not a random die roll.
There are some games that do that to some degree but almost all of them work on "hit x times, drop shields, hit x times destroy hull hit points." Bleh. How about "Out of three volleys one hit and penetrated the crusiers mid section. On this class a high probability is that their secondary power plant went down with damage spreading to the armory. The ship turned to make and escape jump but was split in half due to internal explosions. We too three minor hits to no substantial areas and fire crews were able to contain the damage."
Get rid of the fiary dust, gimme a bit of the grit.
And also since I'm ranting I'll tell you how to fix that earlier problem I was accused of being Mr. Smart over.
In the game you have a Primary Avatar. This is your hero, the guy that gains experience (ugh) and accumulates wealth and power to whatever goal you want, ship captain, army leader, planet governer, whatever. At any time however you can jump to a fake character.
Lets say you are out and about on a deep space mission. Your bored. So you flip open the "current conflicts" panel. Hmmm, Space battle at Genevive. Ok go.
You get a list of positions:
The Harkena has 200 marines, 6 pilot slots, 4 gunner slots, and an engineer slot available.
You select a pilot slot.
Boom, you are now a faceless pilot, unnamed by anything except unit designation and a friendly indicator saying your a human. You go flying. Unfortunately you suck and die. There are now 5 slots available (being taken up by AI until you jump in) The Harkena commander nerdrages and bans you from flying any more of his fighters so take the engineer slot and run around fixing stuff, until you get boarded. You jump to a Marine slot and duke it out on the ships deck. After the fight you go back to your ship. Maybe it was during and your AI crew detected something so you got a notification.
So you see where I'm going with this. Make a universe full of AI and then let players jump to any AI slot they are allowed in. Players get big fights going and players join in immediately, no longer are instant jump anywhere instantly mechanics needed. You can go to the fights. There could even be AI controlled frigates for players to join. And if you aren't online you can set a list of friends to handle your ship if it needs it.
This way you can have long travel times and meaningful distances without screwing the player over because the player can just become a dude in whatever fight there is. Add in land battles and governer ships of planets and.... I need to change my pants.
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
Oh, yeah, I forgot about them. I was mostly thinking about the more recent games. But you're right.
It uses the same general combat style that has been around since Star Fleet Battles in the 70s.
The space game is twitch, not ground RPG. You need the joystick/mouse to line up the shot, set throttle, fire missiles, etc. There are no real MMO elements to it other than running missions to grind space loot to gain skill boxes and make superior ship components. The shipbuilding and reverse engineering system is nice, say if you have a level 4 shield you're trying to make, you can reverse engineer the best stats of four different loot drop shields (i.e shield intensity, regeneration rate, reactor charge required, mass) to make a uber one with the best of all four stats.
The bounty hunting system is all on land with the exception of a couple of scripted space missions unfortunately. It was still the most fun I've ever had in an MMO, despite the ground game being horrible overall. For example, once I picked up a bounty mission that was on Naboo. I picked up my usual set of buffs and set out to find the person. I landed in Theed and popped off a seeker droid, and shuttled in close to my mark. Hmm, he was apparently in a player city PA hall, which are usually locked. Hell, I'm usually banned from most player cities altogether. I checked, and miraculously it was open! I hit a fast-run sprint stim and bolted in quickly and to my amazement my mark was the leader of the top imperial guild on the server. The new player senator's female toon was there right next to him, and both of their toons were nude. I snapped a few screenshots of the cyber love before they could both put their clothes back on, and I killed my mark before he knew what hit him, earning around a million credits. My bounty hunter shouldered his rifle and walked off without saying another word. I never did. It's just business, and I was very good at it. I however, was laughing my balls off, this was why I played SWG for years.
I'm aware of the style, hull points, shield points, and all that. I loved Leviathan when it was out for this reason.
Concentrating on one side is still just spamming lasers. You can make the argument that tactics keep you on that side or that it's no different than something more realistic but in the end it's stat crunching. It looks like the buffs are going to be more hidden in STO and disguised by way of the bridge crew providing the buffs, but then again, looking at the preorder incentives maybe not.
And then you add in that role/class idea the devs are spouting about tank ships, DPS ships, and Buff ships and you realize just how thoroughly stuck in the RPG mind set the game is.
Gimme a game where they lose their engine because I hit their engine, not because a die roll determined it.
The reason devs aren't keen to do something like that I think, is due to the way it makes the game susceptible to instant kill. There are no lucky shots, no first volleys that miraculously snap an engine nacelle, no lucky hits of a bridge that disable the crew. I understand why, players that grind so much to earn their ship would sue the company if their uber ship was knocked out almost immediately.
POTBS learned the hard way about this. It takes literally hundreds of days to build the big ships and those ships are the most fragile. Smaller ships have a few lives to waste, but big ships don't. By gaming the game and grinding for the best fittings for your ship (spar + 3, hardened cannon shell [ cannon + 5]) small ships can take the big cumbersome ships easily. I think they wanted Eve on the water, I don't know but there were a lot of mistakes there. In any case, players quite in droves partly because they put in so much effort into those huge ships, which were sunk so easily by the uber players that had no lives and ground, ground, ground for the best stuff... Well they introduced "insurance" to protect those investments, and I'd guess destroyed the player run economy (based on the fragility of ships).
I'm willing to bet even in Eve it takes a capitol ship to one shot the smallest player ship.
Now don't get me wrong, the ST:Universe games are a lot better than some but I think we can do so much better.
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
Different folks, different strokes I guess. This game is basically the next Starfleet Battles and Star Fleet Command gameplaywise and I couldn't be happier.
The RPG "Classes" are not nearly as clear cut as some would think. They also make sense in universe.
Smart's game did this somewhat, it still has a "fairy dust" shields and hull point system, but any shot that penetrates a shield is likely to cause internal damage. I took a glancing hull shot once, and ended up with reactor damage and radiation contamination on two decks. Output was cut to some 60%, and my weapons and flight deck shutdown due to lack of power. I had to get engineers with RAD control units to clear the contaminated decks and fix the reactor. Multiple crew took took damage from the attack, and had to go to the medibay. I actually felt like I was commanding a real ship, trying to hold it together in a crisis situation.
The same mechanic applies to AI ships too, and you're just as likely to get a dead enemy wreck floating in space than a fancy explosion. As bad as THE GAME is overall, it has a few shining moments.
That said, I'm having more fun with X3 that I ever did with that game. X3 however, has no internal damage model, or any real indicator other than a slight "shake" when you're being hulled. It also has no cockpit models either unless you use a mod. I still love it though, "spreadsheet game" or not, it's fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbhodPw213w
Have you played Bridge Commander? It's got just about the best damage model of any space sim, and there's a mod to suit almost any fancy.
Maybe "hiding the stats better" is the way to put it. Any computer game has stats, its how they are presented I have problems with. Immersion and all that.
Also, yes I agree with the classes making sense. I still have problems with them, but I'll admit to that much.
X3 Question, I've been trying to get into the game a bit. Which is better to delve in, Reunion + xtended or TC?
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
It's been a while since my Frigate Ace days in Eve Online, but unless they completely redesigned the combat (which they haven't), Jules has it right. One of the reasons I loved the Frigates so much was that with minimal investment, good skill training and the right tactics you could really mess with the bigger ships. Back before they nerfed the Sensor Dampeners my Hound Stealth Bomber could cripple a battleships ability to lock targets. Or my Interceptor could cripple the drive systems and/or (depending on the fit) virtually lock down it's ability to maneuver. Sure, your guns would do piddly damage in the scheme of things but I'd usually not even fire on big ships. I'd load light, fast tracking guns and rockets to take down enemy drones. God, I miss Eve Online combat. When it works, it's glorious.
edit: But fuck massive Fleetbattles. Staring at the POS bubble until I have to log off is boring shit. I'd always volunteer for scouting and Forward Edge of Battle skirmishing. Also, fuck MMO's.
Terran Conflict. The controls and interface are massively improved and it's much easier to make money, to the point where playing as a pirate or something is viable (not easy, mind you, but possible and enjoyable). There are also more missions readily available at any given time. It still doesn't have the pacing or learning curve of Privateer, but it takes some of the sting out of "space spreadsheets" and gives you more things to actually do. It's a great game, and the first time in the series I haven't felt like I've had to qualify that.
Reunion + Xtended runs better and has a better story, but that's honestly about all it has going for it. And let's be honest, nobody plays this series for the story.
I had this mod for X3, and loved it. It had Confed ships, too, and appropriate weapons for everything. I can't find it in the official forums anymore, unfortunately, and the files themselves are long gone.
Have you ever played FFE with the jjffe patch?
Anyway, yeah those games are just special. Even today you don't see anyone even attempting to make such a huge world, well universe in this case.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It's not that it's hard, it's that there's just a lot of stuff to learn.
Its the Mass Effect PA comic effect, if you will. I didn't find the ME start that bad (although I'm a dedicated PC gamer, so that may have resulted in changes) but I find every time I start one of the x games that I not only don't know quite what to do, I don't know how to find out how to do it.
A good "So, its your first hour in X3" guide would be really handy.
I'll be the first to say that my space sim experience is very limited (it's one of the few 'genres' actually smaller than the flight sim genre, and generally, with a much less flattering history). I can't disagree, however.
No, I know it's twitch (i.e. like an actual flight game) instead of MMO. I've caught some video of it in the past, which is why it does interest me.
That being said, I'd probably hate any ground combat too much to want to do bounty hunting, even if it was a lot of fun compared to all the other crap. That, and there's a lot of baggage involved (besides the monthly fee). I'm having less and less fun with WoW, so SWG is probably not going to be much better.
Ah well. Time to play the waiting game.
Steam, PSN, XBL, Xfire and everything else JamesDM
Save yourself an aneurysm and use the handy dandy installer.
You select what you want, it goes online and gets it for you, then sticks it all in the right place. Then you just use the Launcher in your Freespace folder to set up your options and enable the Media VPs that make everything awesome.
Except with "tactical combat vs twitch combat" on the x-axis, and on the y-axis... I dunno...
Spreadsheets vs fun? Freespace 1 & 2 would be the extreme of twitch combat and fun, while EVE would be the extreme of spreadsheets and tactics.