I'm pretty sure all competitive scout players use the pistol script.
It's a script where instead of clicking each time to shoot, you hold down M1 and it will automatically shoot (turning the pistol into something like the snipers machine gun). People use this because it makes the pistol shoot faster than most people can click, and it makes the pistol easier to aim.
It's probably the only instance where a script really gives a player an advantage - Spy/Engy scripts are really just for convenience, RJ scripts are too inflexible and pretty much a joke, anything else is probably so minor that there's not really an advantage by scripting it in.
can't use any scripts in competitive at all
not seeing anything about this in a quick glance at some league rules
Yes, but it's a script and will execute it perfectly
Therefore, fuck that.
edit: to clarify, stuff like remapping the numpad for an engy or whatever, fine. Even stuff like that auto-destroying buildings I can sort of understand. But things that actually take over your character and do stuff that you perhaps can't do every time is lame.
I mean I don't always hit with my bullets, but I can't just say "oh well because 75% of my shots hit it's ok to get a script that aims for me".
Query: is it possible to create an aimbot strictly with the in-engine commands?
I have actually thought about this, and I think it may actually be possible if you were to basically constantly take jpegs, have the game constantly execute a cfg that is constantly being modified by an outside program that attempts to calculate where the heads are on the jpeg and writes adjustments to your pitch and shit to write into this constantly read cfg. It would be pretty round about and in the end probably wouldn't work unless you came up with a great head detection mechanism that could perform the calculation instantaneously. Even then, like I had mentioned previously about rocket jumping, using commands to turn and point your dude are incredibly inaccurate.
So... probably no.
Oi. Relevant bits bolded.
A script cannot do anything that cannot theoretically be accomplished by a human of sufficient ability. It can, at best, execute some sequence of in-game commands, but that's it. So far as I know, in-game data is utterly invisible to the scripting engine. You couldn't write a script that would rocket-jump you from wall to wall; that requires detecting where the walls are and timing the inputs accordingly. Scripts cannot do that. Similarly, aimbotting would require detecting where the enemy's head is, and whether or not clear line of sight exists between the player's weapon and that hit-box, then executing a custom series of inputs based not only on the present position of all entities involved but a projection of where stuff will be after the inputs are put in. I'd say it's categorically impossible to accomplish that sort of thing with what the scripting engine permits you. I will grant Flippy's assertion that both scripting and aimbotting permit a standardization outside of human scope. But the salient difference is that scripts can only execute a single rigidly-defined sequence; they cannot self-modify according to game conditions, and I know of no script (not even the rapid-fire pistol one) that allows one player a significant advantage over any other. So I strongly disagree with Flippy's assertion that a rocket-jump script is equivalent to aimbotting. They are not comparable in the slightest.
Preemptive defense: I use no scripts.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
Yes, but it's a script and will execute it perfectly
Therefore, fuck that.
edit: to clarify, stuff like remapping the numpad for an engy or whatever, fine. Even stuff like that auto-destroying buildings I can sort of understand. But things that actually take over your character and do stuff that you perhaps can't do every time is lame.
I mean I don't always hit with my bullets, but I can't just say "oh well because 75% of my shots hit it's ok to get a script that aims for me".
Query: is it possible to create an aimbot strictly with the in-engine commands?
I have actually thought about this, and I think it may actually be possible if you were to basically constantly take jpegs, have the game constantly execute a cfg that is constantly being modified by an outside program that attempts to calculate where the heads are on the jpeg and writes adjustments to your pitch and shit to write into this constantly read cfg. It would be pretty round about and in the end probably wouldn't work unless you came up with a great head detection mechanism that could perform the calculation instantaneously. Even then, like I had mentioned previously about rocket jumping, using commands to turn and point your dude are incredibly inaccurate.
So... probably no.
Oi. Relevant bits bolded.
A script cannot do anything that cannot theoretically be accomplished by a human of sufficient ability. It can, at best, execute some sequence of in-game commands, but that's it. So far as I know, in-game data is utterly invisible to the scripting engine. You couldn't write a script that would rocket-jump you from wall to wall; that requires detecting where the walls are and timing the inputs accordingly. Scripts cannot do that. Similarly, aimbotting would require detecting where the enemy's head is, and whether or not clear line of sight exists between the player's weapon and that hit-box, then executing a custom series of inputs based not only on the present position of all entities involved but a projection of where stuff will be after the inputs are put in. I'd say it's categorically impossible to accomplish that sort of thing with what the scripting engine permits you. I will grant Flippy's assertion that both scripting and aimbotting permit a standardization outside of human scope. But the salient difference is that scripts can only execute a single rigidly-defined sequence; they cannot self-modify according to game conditions, and I know of no script (not even the rapid-fire pistol one) that allows one player a significant advantage over any other. So I strongly disagree with Flippy's assertion that a rocket-jump script is equivalent to aimbotting. They are not comparable in the slightest.
Preemptive defense: I use no scripts.
Games are fun because people compete. Competing ifun becausea) everyone plays with the same tools (which scripting doesn't do), and that b) the relevant point of playing the game is that some people are better than others, including things that scripts/bots standardize like rocket jumping. Even if a script doesn't automate the game completely, it a) creates an uneven playing field on variables outside of game skill, and b) narrows the areas which genuine player skill matters, which makes the game less interesting and fun.
a) creates an uneven playing field on variables outside of game skill, and b) narrows the areas which genuine player skill matters, which makes the game less interesting and fun.
Besides really good snipers, crits can infuriate me. It's not even a soldier's rocket crit, or a demoman pipebomb. It's when you achieve that close distance to a Sniper or Engineer or Medic and then they one shot crit you with their melee weapon.
Besides really good snipers, crits can infuriate me. It's not even a soldier's rocket crit, or a demoman pipebomb. It's when you achieve that close distance to a Sniper or Engineer or Medic and then they one shot crit you with their melee weapon.
I love crit killing people with the spy revolver from long range.
Games are fun because people compete. Competing ifun becausea) everyone plays with the same tools (which scripting doesn't do), and that b) the relevant point of playing the game is that some people are better than others, including things that scripts/bots standardize like rocket jumping. Even if a script doesn't automate the game completely, it a) creates an uneven playing field on variables outside of game skill, and b) narrows the areas which genuine player skill matters, which makes the game less interesting and fun.
Everyone can script. But point (b) is I think valid for things like rocket jump scripts and pistol scripts. Although to be frank, the only script that seems to actually help players is the pistol script. Rocket jump scripts and stab and sap scripts are just too clumsy and like I said earlier, don't have the human articulation or accuracy required to pull them off. But pistol scripts let you fire a lot more shit with a much steadier hand, even if you haven't refined your finger twitching skills. So yeah, those are pretty bullshit.
Besides really good snipers, crits can infuriate me. It's not even a soldier's rocket crit, or a demoman pipebomb. It's when you achieve that close distance to a Sniper or Engineer or Medic and then they one shot crit you with their melee weapon.
jumping into a bunch of people and killing them all is quite a feat. but when you're stuck between a health pack you need and an enemy that wants to bite your dick off and all you have is your melee weapon, getting off that crit hit on them is just so good
Besides really good snipers, crits can infuriate me. It's not even a soldier's rocket crit, or a demoman pipebomb. It's when you achieve that close distance to a Sniper or Engineer or Medic and then they one shot crit you with their melee weapon.
I love crit killing people with the spy revolver from long range.
hi I'm just going to jump in with a wall of text because I feel like posting about this
Scripting doesn't actually give one player a large advantage over another, ever, that I've seen. Standardizing rocket jumping is a disadvantage to the user because it's so easy to learn to do it yourself and once you do you'll be able to do things no script could. Complaining about that would be really silly. If some people want to handicap themselves with a script, let them.
The other ones are similar. Autoreload? I don't think anyone could argue that having the game press r for you gives a huge advantage over pressing it yourself. You're gonna be reloading at the same rate anyway, it's just that you don't have to mash r all the time.
The only really sticky issue I've seen so far is autopistol, because that actually does seem to give you an advantage over the guy you're fighting, simply because it is very difficult for a human to click that fast, especially while remaining accurate. Clicking fast may not seem like a very impressive skill, but it is a skill, and anything that has the potential to remove that is removing a liiiittle bit of skill from the game. That's not that cool, of course.
But what does that mean? Does it mean people who use autopistol are all dicks? I don't think so. Even if the game would be better off if creating an autopistol script were impossible (or banned), the fact is that it's not impossible (and as far as I know, not banned), and people use it a fair bit. (Also, banning it would be really dumb because drawing a line for what qualifies as cheating from that point on would be really difficult. You could ban scripts entirely, which wouldn't be a terrible solution, but many scripts actually encourage better play and you'd lose those. Anyway, a tangent.) If I choose not to use it in order to keep the moral high ground I'm just putting myself at a disadvantage--a pretty slight one, but a disadvantage nonetheless--and I'm not really improving the quality of the game for anyone else in a real way because there are still gonna be people running around with autopistol.
The other thing worth noting is that autopistol--and I think this can be extended to any script--can never really unlevel the playing field, simply because if I feel I'm at a disadvantage because I don't have autopistol I can really easily just go get an autopistol script. If I choose not to, I'm still at that slight disadvantage vs other scouts, but that's a disadvantage I've chosen to keep. So really, the playing field includes the choices you make prior to loading up your game, and that playing field is still even. The only problem with this--and I think it's a pretty big one--is that not all players will know autopistol is even an option. There's not an easy solution for that which players can enact, short of broadcasting I'M USING AN AUTOPISTOL SCRIPT, GET IT HERE every time you kill someone as scout.
The only way out I can think of is for Valve to redesign the pistol so that clicking faster isn't actually an advantage, either by including an autopistol option in the game itself (silly, because there would be no reason not to use it and it would be too similar to the sniper's SMG) or by rebalancing the pistol to have a slower max fire rate and slightly higher damage, so that autopistol scripts would no longer let you fire faster than players can be expected to click (just like, say, the shotgun, except faster).
So I think it's okay to use autopistol, simply because it is not considered cheating and because it's available to everyone. The only problem is that some people don't know about it, but I don't think that's a big enough issue to warrant calling everyone who uses autopistol a dick or to force players who wish to retain the moral high ground not to use it. That issue is outweighed by the other stuff. This is the only issue in the whole game where I feel a script actually crosses into that grey area of a possibly unfair advantage, and the fact that it does reveals a (rare) poor design decision on Valve's part. If they feel the autopistol vs. non-autopistol thing is a large enough problem, they need to change the weapon in a way that will make autopistol obsolete. If it's legally possible to gain an in-game advantage, people are going to do it. If that creates problems, remove the ability to get the advantage. Until then, I don't think anyone can really be faulted for using it.
I started using scripts for the first time two nights ago, and didn't add them until I had thought out for myself whether they were unfair or not. I decided they aren't, so I started using them and don't feel guilty about it. I'm not really interested in arguing about this here unless someone brings up something really interesting. I'm already pretty sure what I wrote is a good post.
I think the general consensus here is that you can use the pistol script (It's not "cheating"), but some people will look down on it and some will think it's cheap.
Pistol scripts definitely give a noticeable advantage. It's not exactly fair but I don't think there's anything wrong with it - anybody who is actually good enough to benefit considerably from using one can easily find it themselves with a quick google. Valve certainly doesn't care.
Posts
not seeing anything about this in a quick glance at some league rules
cite please?
Oi. Relevant bits bolded.
A script cannot do anything that cannot theoretically be accomplished by a human of sufficient ability. It can, at best, execute some sequence of in-game commands, but that's it. So far as I know, in-game data is utterly invisible to the scripting engine. You couldn't write a script that would rocket-jump you from wall to wall; that requires detecting where the walls are and timing the inputs accordingly. Scripts cannot do that. Similarly, aimbotting would require detecting where the enemy's head is, and whether or not clear line of sight exists between the player's weapon and that hit-box, then executing a custom series of inputs based not only on the present position of all entities involved but a projection of where stuff will be after the inputs are put in. I'd say it's categorically impossible to accomplish that sort of thing with what the scripting engine permits you. I will grant Flippy's assertion that both scripting and aimbotting permit a standardization outside of human scope. But the salient difference is that scripts can only execute a single rigidly-defined sequence; they cannot self-modify according to game conditions, and I know of no script (not even the rapid-fire pistol one) that allows one player a significant advantage over any other. So I strongly disagree with Flippy's assertion that a rocket-jump script is equivalent to aimbotting. They are not comparable in the slightest.
Preemptive defense: I use no scripts.
Games are fun because people compete. Competing ifun becausea) everyone plays with the same tools (which scripting doesn't do), and that b) the relevant point of playing the game is that some people are better than others, including things that scripts/bots standardize like rocket jumping. Even if a script doesn't automate the game completely, it a) creates an uneven playing field on variables outside of game skill, and b) narrows the areas which genuine player skill matters, which makes the game less interesting and fun.
i've heard the same argument against crits
What the hell is wrong with your sig, its really long.
and yet i see no yellow card
I love crit killing people with the spy revolver from long range.
Owned by the RNG, bitch.
Was an alabaster slim image sig, I guess it isn't working anymore.
Everyone can script. But point (b) is I think valid for things like rocket jump scripts and pistol scripts. Although to be frank, the only script that seems to actually help players is the pistol script. Rocket jump scripts and stab and sap scripts are just too clumsy and like I said earlier, don't have the human articulation or accuracy required to pull them off. But pistol scripts let you fire a lot more shit with a much steadier hand, even if you haven't refined your finger twitching skills. So yeah, those are pretty bullshit.
jumping into a bunch of people and killing them all is quite a feat. but when you're stuck between a health pack you need and an enemy that wants to bite your dick off and all you have is your melee weapon, getting off that crit hit on them is just so good
Scripting doesn't actually give one player a large advantage over another, ever, that I've seen. Standardizing rocket jumping is a disadvantage to the user because it's so easy to learn to do it yourself and once you do you'll be able to do things no script could. Complaining about that would be really silly. If some people want to handicap themselves with a script, let them.
The other ones are similar. Autoreload? I don't think anyone could argue that having the game press r for you gives a huge advantage over pressing it yourself. You're gonna be reloading at the same rate anyway, it's just that you don't have to mash r all the time.
The only really sticky issue I've seen so far is autopistol, because that actually does seem to give you an advantage over the guy you're fighting, simply because it is very difficult for a human to click that fast, especially while remaining accurate. Clicking fast may not seem like a very impressive skill, but it is a skill, and anything that has the potential to remove that is removing a liiiittle bit of skill from the game. That's not that cool, of course.
But what does that mean? Does it mean people who use autopistol are all dicks? I don't think so. Even if the game would be better off if creating an autopistol script were impossible (or banned), the fact is that it's not impossible (and as far as I know, not banned), and people use it a fair bit. (Also, banning it would be really dumb because drawing a line for what qualifies as cheating from that point on would be really difficult. You could ban scripts entirely, which wouldn't be a terrible solution, but many scripts actually encourage better play and you'd lose those. Anyway, a tangent.) If I choose not to use it in order to keep the moral high ground I'm just putting myself at a disadvantage--a pretty slight one, but a disadvantage nonetheless--and I'm not really improving the quality of the game for anyone else in a real way because there are still gonna be people running around with autopistol.
The other thing worth noting is that autopistol--and I think this can be extended to any script--can never really unlevel the playing field, simply because if I feel I'm at a disadvantage because I don't have autopistol I can really easily just go get an autopistol script. If I choose not to, I'm still at that slight disadvantage vs other scouts, but that's a disadvantage I've chosen to keep. So really, the playing field includes the choices you make prior to loading up your game, and that playing field is still even. The only problem with this--and I think it's a pretty big one--is that not all players will know autopistol is even an option. There's not an easy solution for that which players can enact, short of broadcasting I'M USING AN AUTOPISTOL SCRIPT, GET IT HERE every time you kill someone as scout.
The only way out I can think of is for Valve to redesign the pistol so that clicking faster isn't actually an advantage, either by including an autopistol option in the game itself (silly, because there would be no reason not to use it and it would be too similar to the sniper's SMG) or by rebalancing the pistol to have a slower max fire rate and slightly higher damage, so that autopistol scripts would no longer let you fire faster than players can be expected to click (just like, say, the shotgun, except faster).
So I think it's okay to use autopistol, simply because it is not considered cheating and because it's available to everyone. The only problem is that some people don't know about it, but I don't think that's a big enough issue to warrant calling everyone who uses autopistol a dick or to force players who wish to retain the moral high ground not to use it. That issue is outweighed by the other stuff. This is the only issue in the whole game where I feel a script actually crosses into that grey area of a possibly unfair advantage, and the fact that it does reveals a (rare) poor design decision on Valve's part. If they feel the autopistol vs. non-autopistol thing is a large enough problem, they need to change the weapon in a way that will make autopistol obsolete. If it's legally possible to gain an in-game advantage, people are going to do it. If that creates problems, remove the ability to get the advantage. Until then, I don't think anyone can really be faulted for using it.
hint: (its that guy)
I'm a cheater. I feel guilty.
qtiyd
I have never, in my time playing TF2, used a script. You sir are a liar and a thief.
That is a good one John. Well executed.
I love you, John.
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