A Distinct Lack of Swordfighting. (Suggestions?)

Xaviar

So, I have a craving for a very specific game, and my basic googling skills turns up nothing. I'm hoping that you fine fellows can assist.

I want to play a turn-based sword fighting simulation. Where it sticks me and my opponent (only has to be one, though more would be fine) in an arena (again, could be an infinite flat floor, or an empty room, or something more interesting). And we sword fight. Turn-based. As in, one person starts, and makes a move. Part-way through that move, the action stops, and the other person gets to respond. He is presented with a list of moves that flow from the move/stance he is currently in, and has to (hopefully) pick the one that best fits the situation. And then the first player responds. And back and forth, back and forth, move, countermove, countermove, countermove... etc.

The end result of this should be a (semi)realistic sword fight in which through 90% of the action, no blow is actually landed. Everything should be dodged, parried, or countered. The idea being that you choose moves which will stop your opponents move from hitting you, but which will also hopefully (eventually) place him in a position where he is unable to respond appropriately to your strike.

Optimally one would then be able to play the entire fight back in real-time. But that is unnecessary for slaking my hunger.

Is there anything out there even close to this? Please?

If not, can someone make it? :winky: I'd buy it.

McAllen

I can't think of a single game that matches all that criteria. It almost feels like it belongs in Table Top gaming.

The only games I can think of are The Witcher, Assassin's Creed and maybe a few RPG's? But none match the specific requirements.

Xaviar

Also the problem I'm having. In my head I see it presented as a card-game. But with two little 3d men doing what the cards say. And I see more than just "swing the sword this way" moves. I'm imagining like all kinds of acrobatic type moves as well.

Garrrrr...

W2

If I remember right, Die by the Sword is an oldie that has pretty complex swordplay. Not exactly what you're after, and it's very dated, but it might be worth a look.

Antihippy

Not turn base at all, but Samurai Shodown?

Actually, Bushido Blade fits what you want tremendously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_Blade_(video_game)

Edit: except for the turn-based aspect of course.

Xaviar

Actually, I'd never played Bushido Blade. My friend had it, and I kind of glanced at him playing it once, and wasn't interested at the time. But you are right, it is very nearly what I am looking for. But the turn-based part is important because my reflexes suck for shit. And I always end up picking up fighting games on other people's recommendation that it's "like chess with fighting," and never get past the part where "Ok, I see what he's doing here, that means I need to do.... this... Oh, wait. He finished that move, and then moved on to several others, and then killed me three minutes ago while I was thinking about it."

And so I degenerate into button-mashing while occasionally throwing in a block to throw off those people that think I'm just button-mashing. And there goes all the appeal.

Cherrn

The duels in the Suikoden games are kind of like what you describe, but they are ultimately just rock, paper, scissors.

Otherwise, you could check out Mount & Blade. It's not just sword fighting, and it's not turn-based, but you can get a lot out of it without having to rely on reflexes.

Antihippy

Aw shucks. Well, there's that option if you ever want to try it.

Zoel

i am dating myself but does anyone remember an aol chat game from 1993 that is pretty much what is described

you'd have like two guys selecting from a list of moves and then have a moderator who described the results based on the previous moves and how the current moves interacted

MegaMek

Xaviar wrote: »

Actually, I'd never played Bushido Blade. My friend had it, and I kind of glanced at him playing it once, and wasn't interested at the time. But you are right, it is very nearly what I am looking for. But the turn-based part is important because my reflexes suck for shit. And I always end up picking up fighting games on other people's recommendation that it's "like chess with fighting," and never get past the part where "Ok, I see what he's doing here, that means I need to do.... this... Oh, wait. He finished that move, and then moved on to several others, and then killed me three minutes ago while I was thinking about it."

And so I degenerate into button-mashing while occasionally throwing in a block to throw off those people that think I'm just button-mashing. And there goes all the appeal.

Bushido Blade is a bit more tactical. Attacks are slow and deliberate, attacking from the same direction the enemy is attacking will parry, and many engagements end in one player being permanently crippled or killed instantly.

My brother and I had this awesome little duel rule, where we'd play on the beach level, stand back as far away from each other as possible, then charge in for one major attack. If both players survived (unlikely) the fight would go on as normal. It was so awesome.

OremLK

This sounds cool, and pretty easy to code, so I'll think about making this game when I'm done with my next project (sometime in June). No promises about anything, ever, though

Antihippy

I really do hope that they eventually re-release Bushido blade on PSN with online modes.

And then die immediately as your parry didn't register due to input lag.

MegaMek

Yeah, I don't think playing BB over the internet is a good idea. Too much room for instant deaths from lag.

lowlylowlycook

OremLK wrote: »

This sounds cool, and pretty easy to code, so I'll think about making this game when I'm done with my next project (sometime in June). No promises about anything, ever, though

Make sure it includes the ability to pretend you are left handed. :winky:

Xaviar

Hm. Maybe I'll have to see if I can't find a copy of it somewhere. And maybe I'll just have to dig out 3dsmax and python and see if I can't make it for meself. Though if I'm going to be honest, best case scenario means all I'll really end up doing is getting a half-working proof-of-concept and maybe like 3 animations before I give up.

Ah well. Doomed to hanker forever.

[edit]

Wow, totally missed your post, OremLK.
I would you forever.

McAllen

What's your longing for good ol fashioned Sword Play, anyway?

lowlylowlycook

Would Blood Bowl be a good game to steal ideas? It seems that that kind of variable initiative would work well for sword fights.

Antihippy

lowlylowlycook wrote: »

OremLK wrote: »

This sounds cool, and pretty easy to code, so I'll think about making this game when I'm done with my next project (sometime in June). No promises about anything, ever, though

Make sure it includes the ability to pretend you are left handed. :winky:

But then whoever reveals their right handedness last always wins.

Wheres the balance man?

Xaviar

McAllen wrote: »

What's your longing for good ol fashioned Sword Play, anyway?

Really it's been growing in the back of my head ever since I read the Wheel of Time series, like, a billion years ago. The way he describes the fights are very, very far from descriptive. But it got my imagination working. And now it just won't stop, dammit.
All the sword masters fight using "Sword forms," which have clever names (though he never actually describes the moves..). So the fights end up being "Cat Claws The Dog met Rhino Sleeps Under The Porch, Raven Flapping Hungry met Tiger Dancing On Hindpaws" etc. Except better than that. But you get the idea.

lowlylowlycook wrote:

Would Blood Bowl be a good game to steal ideas? It seems that that kind of variable initiative would work well for sword fights.

You would have to describe it to me, don't know it. But I've been imagining a variable initiative as well, based on the speed of the move, the stance, etc.

--

Also, thank you for the Princess Bride comments.. They made me smile.

ChaosHat

Xaviar wrote: »

McAllen wrote: »

What's your longing for good ol fashioned Sword Play, anyway?

Really it's been growing in the back of my head ever since I read the Wheel of Time series, like, a billion years ago. The way he describes the fights are very, very far from descriptive. But it got my imagination working. And now it just won't stop, dammit.
All the sword masters fight using "Sword forms," which have clever names (though he never actually describes the moves..). So the fights end up being "Cat Claws The Dog met Rhino Sleeps Under The Porch, Raven Flapping Hungry met Tiger Dancing On Hindpaws" etc. Except better than that. But you get the idea.

lowlylowlycook wrote:

Would Blood Bowl be a good game to steal ideas? It seems that that kind of variable initiative would work well for sword fights.

You would have to describe it to me, don't know it. But I've been imagining a variable initiative as well, based on the speed of the move, the stance, etc.

--

Also, thank you for the Princess Bride comments.. They made me smile.

I always loved those fights in WoT. It let you use your imagination to figure out what that attack meant. I always figured their crane stance was drawing up on one leg...like a crane. They always said it was a vulnerable stance anyways.

lowlylowlycook

Xaviar wrote: »

lowlylowlycook wrote:

Would Blood Bowl be a good game to steal ideas? It seems that that kind of variable initiative would work well for sword fights.

You would have to describe it to me, don't know it. But I've been imagining a variable initiative as well, based on the speed of the move, the stance, etc.

--

Also, thank you for the Princess Bride comments.. They made me smile.

Well I never played it much and long ago at that, but the main idea is one player get's to move until they fail then it's the other players turn.

I'm imagining something where one player has the initiative and can chose attacks while the other can maybe react in some way. Only when certain conditions would be met could the second player go on the offensive.

Kelor

You fight like a dairy farmer!

Monkey Island has what you are after. Sort of.

You might dig the combat in the most recent Pirates! game for PC, it isn't exactly turn based, but you know in advance how long till you need to input the command. You also get pub brawls and some fun ship combat while rescuing your family and woo every governor's daughter on the Spanish main.

Pirates! sword combat

I can't really think of anything turn based that fits under what you're after though. Bushido Blade is similar, Mount and Blade has anything from small skirmishes to large scale combat, both open terrain and siege but should be fine for you as long as you don't let yourself get dismounted and surrounded.

I believe there used to be a Highlander card game that revolved around what you're after but you'd have to locate some cards and have someone to play with.

-SPI-

Toribash is the only turn based fighting game that I can think of. No swords though, well one mode, but they don't really act like a sword.

And it's got very little in the way of finesse, it's more "Hilarious death by misadventure"

Antihippy

Oh man toribash.

I still have no idea how to play that.

Visti

I echo Bushido Blade. I would also suggest something entirely different, but if you're the average gamer, you'd probably be disappointed.

Xaviar

Visti wrote: »

I echo Bushido Blade. I would also suggest something entirely different, but if you're the average gamer, you'd probably be disappointed.

Actually, I had quite a bit of fun with godwars2. And it is similar to what I'm looking for, but again, it doesn't really give you time to think. I'd just sit there typing "rs rs rs ls ls fs fs ls ls rs rs rs ls ls" as fast as I could (aiming for the moves, of course)

Brym

I found a series of board games from the 1970s that seem to have what you're looking for. Here's the samurai edition:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/13598

Maybe you can find it on ebay?

Hahnsoo1

Sounds like the Highlander Collectible Card Game. Possibly the best tabletop swordfight/duel card engine, although En Garde from Slugfest Games is a bit easier to play and more fun, IMO. Neither of these are computer games, although I can't imagine it would be difficult to make them into a computer game.

Of course, nothing that's turn-based comes even close to realistic sword fighting. Part of realism of sword fighting comes from real-time split second decisions and a lack of coordination on the part of the fighters, creating exploitable openings.

Brym

Ah yes, En Garde looks like a good fit for him. It was apparently also re-issued recently under the name Duell by Ravensburger. Here's the BGG page:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9735

But yeah, video games? I think most people figure if you're going to do swordfights electronically, you may as well do it real time.

manwiththemachinegun

Not likely we'll ever see a game like the one you describe. Fencing is by its nature fast and you have to adapt on the fly. As for games, I have fenced a little in saber and kendo, so I know good stuff when I see it. Best games for realistic/semi realistic swordfighting.

Bushido Blade:

Seriously, get this game. Get it now. Get the sequel too.

Way of the Samurai:

semi-realistic damage once you level up your swords, has some nice features like pushing and pulling through a guard, off balancing, grabs.

Assassin's Creed:

Great counter kills and grabbing system. Some of the kills will literally make you flinch. And it's *only* boring if you don't fighting creatively and use things like combo kills, throwing knives and chucking people off of buildings. There's nothing like carving your way through a horde of Crusaders or Saracens without taking a hit. Some good examples of western style fencing. Assassin's Creed 2 looks good in this regard as well.

Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven:

Okay, not really a fencing game and has got some fantasy elements, but it does simulate how a Ninja would fight most enemies. Namely, you sneak up behind them, and you fucking stab them until they die. Simple really. The stealth kills are awesome in their variety though, you see some good techniques.

Games to ignore:

Soul Caliber:

LOL, slashing with stabbing weapons (I'm looking at you Raphel), stupid twirls, swords are nerf bats.

Woodroez

Bushido Blade (available on Japan's Playstation Network, along with it's sequel) is about as close as you'll get to a really complete fencing game. If you want to get it through JPSN, though, you'll have to jump some hoops.

Assassin's Creed doesn't really have realistic damage system, as you basically had to land three good strikes before an enemy was vulnerable to a fatal blow, but was really very entertaining nonetheless, as far as fighting went.

Ash of Yew

Like was mentioned Monkey Island is pretty much what you're after. The only thing is that instead of picking manuevars it's insults, but the end result is the same.

Antihippy

Woodroez wrote: »

Bushido Blade (available on Japan's Playstation Network, along with it's sequel) is about as close as you'll get to a really complete fencing game. If you want to get it through JPSN, though, you'll have to jump some hoops.

Is there a guide to jump said hoops?

Woodroez

I can't remember everything, but the main thing is you can't use your PSN wallet on Japan's network. You'll have to buy JPSN cards from Playasia or a similar import store.

hunting around for the specifics now.

EDIT: since creating a japanese account basically means you're going to have to deal with japanese text, this video seems to outline at least a portion of the process.

Creating the account

You'll notice if you click the link that that video's a response to the video "Adding Yen to your JPSN Account"

cj iwakura

Last Blade is still a wonderful swordfighting game, so you could pursue that.

MindLib

:P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFKOFF5gjBg

Hahnsoo1

Brym wrote: »

Ah yes, En Garde looks like a good fit for him. It was apparently also re-issued recently under the name Duell by Ravensburger. Here's the BGG page:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9735

But yeah, video games? I think most people figure if you're going to do swordfights electronically, you may as well do it real time.

Nope. They are two games with the same name. The En Garde from Abacus (which is now Duell from Ravensburger) is definitely not the same game as the En Garde! from Slugfest games. En Garde from Abacus involves a lot of numbers for movement and maneuver, while En Garde! from Slugfest games is like their other game "Kung Fu Fighting" with swords instead of kung fu. For one thing, the Slugfest version has "I am not Left Handed" as one of the cards, an obvious reference.

PolloDiablo

There was an RPG called Swashbuckler where you needed to pick swordfighting moves, like parry a few times to open up a chance to riposte. It was pretty good, but not a videogame.

I also remember a boardgame of the same name, Swashbuckler, where you would program in moves. It was pretty good. Also not a videogame.

And I still remember every insult and comeback in that video. Someday that will come in handy.

Arkan

Soul Calibur gets kinda close for a fighting game. Most of the fighters are your usual combo attackers, but in particular Nightmare(/Sigfried in later games? I've only played Soul Calibur 2) has a very interesting combo system where all of his moves are very simple to perform (usually one button + a direction) but each one allows you to switch into one of two stances based on what move. He's got like 5 stances total and each has a completely different moveset and each move has which stances it can transition into fixed.

I was actually very good with him at one point; I never had the patience to memorize long combo strings, but I could memorize very simple commands- with Nightmare you're essentially building your combos step by step.