Very specific (and thus hopefully easy) car comparison advice?
BlochWave
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I've been driving a 98 Honda Civic since I was 16. The time is now! For your convenience:
[URL] http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=101148574&styleid=101061146&styleid=100980405&styleid=101037243&styleid=101047052&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=pricing [/URL]
Those cars at those trims are what I'm looking at(the 10 Mazda is what I'd get, I put the 09 in there because the 10 has some TBDs), they're all in the price range I'm looking at, I've test driven them all and others and narrowed it down to that list. I've already gotten a mountain of advice from people on actually buying the car once I pick one, so I want to elicit opinions about those cars, if any of you have experience with them or comments. I'm looking for a sedan, I don't have a long commute to work but I like to be the guy who says "I'll drive!" for any event so I'll often have passengers (of course it can vary but usually 4 or less and all of average height for the most part). Sometimes when I'm restless at night I'll just cruise around, stuff like that.
I have a bad habit of typing way too much in these posts, I'll try and keep this brief (in a particular order, yes):
Mazda3: My "preseason" favorite, it certainly was the most fun to drive, and I thought it had a cool interior. Maybe the inside is just a little small, but it's comparable to what I have now, and the Corolla and such. Good gas mileage. I'm even pondering moving up to the bigger engine which is also in my range, but the dealership was out of those. If anybody thinks that's well worth it or not, speak up! My main concern is safety, the 2010 doesn't have many results out and the 2009's were "ok." My logic is that they were ok compared to the safetymobiles I was looking at (Civic, Altima, Corolla) and hell, my current car doesn't have side airbags or vehicular stability gobbeldygook, so if I feel safe in my current car this is still an upgrade. It's not like hopping into a 350Z or a Viper I'm sure, but does anyone have much knowledge on that?
Altima: I was surprised I liked this as much. It's a little bigger car but I did greatly enjoy driving it and liked its ride a lot. More room, awesome interior and dash setup. Is the CVT a maintenance issue? I just thought of that as I typed this, so I'll check around myself, but I bet someone knows. It's also apparently a safety beast. It does have a weird progression of "convenience" packages that would end up raising its price more than I'd care before I got to options that I care about, but that trim is perfectly satisfactory standard. It's a bigger car with a bigger engine, less mileage of course.
Civic: Obviously very different from my 98. I don't mind the digital speedometer, I know some people have complained it's above the tachometer so you can't as easily glance at both, but hell, I'd get the automatic anyways. I think I give it a nudge below the Altima for driving smoothness. Of course it's safe as well, and good mileage.
Corolla: A little plain, but I enjoyed driving it more than I expected. It gets around pretty decent (for comparison I drove the non V6 Camry and thought it was a little sluggish), safe and good mileage. And very cheap.
So in summary, I'm leaning towards the Mazda on my opinion that it's fun to drive while not sacrificing the typical sedan things, and notably cheap. Safety is a ding against it though, I need to decide if that disqualifies it. I think it's fair to say the Civic and Altima are better cars than the Corolla, but I need to decide if they're several thousand dollars better. If so, they can face off and I think I'd lean towards the Altima right now. Bring on the thoughts and comments!
[URL] http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=101148574&styleid=101061146&styleid=100980405&styleid=101037243&styleid=101047052&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=pricing [/URL]
Those cars at those trims are what I'm looking at(the 10 Mazda is what I'd get, I put the 09 in there because the 10 has some TBDs), they're all in the price range I'm looking at, I've test driven them all and others and narrowed it down to that list. I've already gotten a mountain of advice from people on actually buying the car once I pick one, so I want to elicit opinions about those cars, if any of you have experience with them or comments. I'm looking for a sedan, I don't have a long commute to work but I like to be the guy who says "I'll drive!" for any event so I'll often have passengers (of course it can vary but usually 4 or less and all of average height for the most part). Sometimes when I'm restless at night I'll just cruise around, stuff like that.
I have a bad habit of typing way too much in these posts, I'll try and keep this brief (in a particular order, yes):
Mazda3: My "preseason" favorite, it certainly was the most fun to drive, and I thought it had a cool interior. Maybe the inside is just a little small, but it's comparable to what I have now, and the Corolla and such. Good gas mileage. I'm even pondering moving up to the bigger engine which is also in my range, but the dealership was out of those. If anybody thinks that's well worth it or not, speak up! My main concern is safety, the 2010 doesn't have many results out and the 2009's were "ok." My logic is that they were ok compared to the safetymobiles I was looking at (Civic, Altima, Corolla) and hell, my current car doesn't have side airbags or vehicular stability gobbeldygook, so if I feel safe in my current car this is still an upgrade. It's not like hopping into a 350Z or a Viper I'm sure, but does anyone have much knowledge on that?
Altima: I was surprised I liked this as much. It's a little bigger car but I did greatly enjoy driving it and liked its ride a lot. More room, awesome interior and dash setup. Is the CVT a maintenance issue? I just thought of that as I typed this, so I'll check around myself, but I bet someone knows. It's also apparently a safety beast. It does have a weird progression of "convenience" packages that would end up raising its price more than I'd care before I got to options that I care about, but that trim is perfectly satisfactory standard. It's a bigger car with a bigger engine, less mileage of course.
Civic: Obviously very different from my 98. I don't mind the digital speedometer, I know some people have complained it's above the tachometer so you can't as easily glance at both, but hell, I'd get the automatic anyways. I think I give it a nudge below the Altima for driving smoothness. Of course it's safe as well, and good mileage.
Corolla: A little plain, but I enjoyed driving it more than I expected. It gets around pretty decent (for comparison I drove the non V6 Camry and thought it was a little sluggish), safe and good mileage. And very cheap.
So in summary, I'm leaning towards the Mazda on my opinion that it's fun to drive while not sacrificing the typical sedan things, and notably cheap. Safety is a ding against it though, I need to decide if that disqualifies it. I think it's fair to say the Civic and Altima are better cars than the Corolla, but I need to decide if they're several thousand dollars better. If so, they can face off and I think I'd lean towards the Altima right now. Bring on the thoughts and comments!
BlochWave on
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The 3 is not as fuel efficient as the Civic or Corolla, but it looks better, is heavier (for safety reasons that's better), and if you get the top of the line 3 with the 170 hp engine it is a very good when you want to really drive the car. It also has the nicest interior of the 4.
If you're the kind of person who will drive a car into the ground and likes to really drive your car and don't see it as a means of transportation, pick the 3. The Civic is fine if you just need dependable transportation, and the Corolla has feint handling compared to the 3. And the Altima just isn't worth it unless you get the 6 cylinder.
If you could find a '09 Mazdaspeed 3, check into that. They're discounting all the 3s to make way for the new body change, so you could be in luck.
The Mazdaspeed definitely sounds worth a look. Do you know about how much they're being discounted by in general?
TexiKen, do you know a particularly good Mazda dealer in Houston that would have the Mazdaspeeds? I was at the one in Clear Lake, and they were the ones out of the s Mazda3s and certainly no Mazdaspeeds
I don't wanna fire up what I'm sure is an ancient debate, but any thoughts on getting a manual?(which I see is required for the mazdaspeed). It's been a long time but I did learn and get pretty ok with it when I was 16 and learning(8 years ago...aw hell now I feel old). I know some people say you get it and it's cool for a while, then you get sick of it, but people who have them always say you just get used to it and don't even notice it. Knocks a bit off the price, and since I live near where I work I don't have to drive in crappy traffic if I don't feel like it.
Thanks for the replies!
I think the 3s are like the 6s in that you can do manual shifting even with the automatic if you really want to. And you don't have to worry about a clutch.
Regarding manual, I just couldn't deal with it in Houston traffic everyday, but that's just because I have to fight 290 traffic in the morning and afternoons and I wouldn't want to mess with gears for two hours a day. If your commute is different, I would go for it.
The S Grand Touring does have a 5 speed auto with manual shift mode, I would go for that.
Test drive the speed 3. Its probably the most difficult to drive manual I've ever driven.
My commute is easy and I live and work in the Clear Lake area (oh noes don't stalk me) so I dodge the downtown traffic but Houston traffic is pretty much inescapable if you go to do stuff, so I'll think about it. Even the i Touring I test drove had the manual shift mode and that's pretty cool. I know they usually knock a mpg or two off the estimate for manuals, I always assumed because you can shift more intelligently than a computer, so don't you get that benefit with the semi-auto? Not that a single mpg or two is make or break, just curious
What's so difficult? I drove one a while back and didn't have any issues.
Anyways, I have a Mazda RX-8 and I've been nothing but happy with it reliability wise. No problems outside normal maintenance.
Another officer I know drives an Altima and he loves it. To be honest, I like it too. Very nice car, roomy, good mileage. Another guy I know has an Acura TL, I'm not sure what the price looks like but maybe something to check out.
The clutch is rather heavy and it has, if I had to guess, less than 1cm from fully disengaged to fully engaged.
Compared to your civics, sunfires, and even RX-8s, the clutch is very grabby. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. Its just the design of the car. And its something that a person thinking of the car should be aware of. Don't you think?
Oh, absolutely. I just didn't know what you were referring to, specifically. I'll have to go try another one now!
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=132340.0
Now it's hard for me to tell if they all just soup up their cars and drive them like crap or what, and if this would be a problem on the 2010. Thoughts?
The major difference in MPG between automatics and manuals is because the mechanical efficiency of an automatic is substantially lower. It really doesn't have much to do with the accuracy of shifting in most cases.
It seems to have just been a problem on the 2.3L engine (in the MazdaSpeed3).
The new '10 3 if you get the higher end versions has a 2.5L engine that is also used in the new Mazda 6. I wouldn't be concerned about that engine, as there has been nothing noticeably wrong with the new Mazda 6 outside of it not having the best turning radius.
So I test drove the bigger engined Mazda3, didn't have a problem with it (I can still drive a manual without embarrassing myself. Yay!), and am thinking I could go ahead and pretty stoutly fit the leather seats and the whole kitten kaboodle into my budget. The sport GT with the additional options I would want has an MSRP of about 22 k (I don't intend to pay the MSRP, but I do compare cars with it)
Well I made the mistake of reading too much and maybe test driving too much, I guess. I started reading reviews from car freaks who are probably nearly impossible to please and they notice things I never would and now I always notice them, like the high use of plastics. I guess that's unavoidable in any of those smaller cars (the Corolla XLE gets the finger for faux wood paneling)
I've always driven a small car, and my family is usually in a small car or SUV (and I'm sure not looking at SUVs) so it was just kinda where I gravitated. So I test drove a few bigger cars. I was particularly taken by a 4 door Honda Accord with the V6. I really cared for the size, to be honest, and enjoyed its....road presence, I guess. It was just a lot more comfortable to drive. Or should I say...luxurious. It was the EX-V6, with a boatload of options I cared for coming standard, MSRPing around 26k. While at the dealer I also drove around a Civic SI (also a six speed manual!) and also appreciated its sportiness.
So now I'm waffling and am not quite sure what kind of car I REALLY want. I have an uninspiring small car and I know I want something new and different. I like the sporty small cars because they're fun to drive, nimble, and the one in particular I fancy still has decent gas mileage. I like the bigger powerful cars because they're roomy, comfortable to drive (physically and in their...gravitas? while on the road) and still get respectable gas mileage.
But even as I type this, I realize that given my current situation I'd probably appreciate the fun-ness and gas mileage more. I think. Dammit, life has too many decisions with long lasting consequences that don't have obvious right and wrong answers
Yeah, although I don't love actually using it, it feels backwards to me for some reason (and it's just an up/down trigger, it's not like a real automatic (obviously))
I have an 07 3 hatchback, and I still absolutely love it; other than a weird brake issue in the first couple months (I think it didn't like my taking it down Lombard St) that was warrantied, I haven't had any problems with it
Gas mileage is kinda meh, usually I think I get around 22 for typical (i.e. suburban commute) driving, though it's been around 34 on long highway trips
I actually didn't realize they make a non-hatchback version of the speed3 now, or were you looking at the hatchback one?
Part of that is that new bumper and grill that really seems to piss off people, but apparently it greatly improves aerodynamics, and as some manner of engineer I have to appreciate that
LOL at everyone saying that the slap-shifter automanuals are anything remotely equal to a proper manual gearbox. Young punks, my lawn, never the two shall meet.
Try the hatch Mazda3, you'll appreciate the extra space. If you're after bigger cars, well, then you're back to square one as far as needing a whole new list of potential candidates.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I wasn't trying to imply that they are remotely equal, just that if what OP would miss about a manual is shifting to third when he damned well pleases then the auto-manual could be a decent compromise.
that said... you seem to really like space, interior quality, road presence, power, etc.... it really seems like you should be stepping up to a full size sedan at this point instead of a compact... many full size sedans can be had at your price range... and you can get fully loaded if you go for an '09 instead
something like an Accord or Mazda6... the Camry is a bit boring, but still very comfy and high quality... even a Ford Fusion
and i highly recommend testing out a Dodge Charger... incentives should be good b/c of the Chrysler bankruptcy... and once you try RWD V8, you won't want to go back
I think if I want to look at bigger sedans that run in the give or take 25k range, my preliminary internet research list would run like so: Accords, Camrys, Mazda6
I'm also thinking about going one year used too. If I can find what I want exactly I think that may be a good idea.
Again, I'm waffling, so I really don't know. Oh well, the old car is still holding up, I'll meditate on it
Really don't read too much into what people post about cars on forums on those off-the-path forums, even the regular ones. If you went by that on Yahoo Autos, say, the Toyota Camry is a piece of shit when really it's probably some angry UAW worker slamming the car because it's better than that Sebring they worked on.
If you are looking to move up in size, the Ford Fusion is a good choice, mainly because it does everything right but has a better deal going for it compared to others in its class, like the Altima or 6. Other than that, a Pontiac G8 could be had for new for 25k. Probably not the V8 model, but a good v6 with leather.
If you go one year used, look at the '09 and newer Nissan Maxima, totally. New design looks very nice and aggressive, and perfect for the driver.
If you could get to 27k, you could get the G8 GT which is really bitchin'. To be honest, I'm looking to buy one of them before Pontiacs are phased out, because it's the best bang for the buck, so that's about 18 months before they're gone.
The CVT need much less maintenance than a regular automatic and they are generally pretty bulletproof. I have a Nissan Sentra and love it (though I prefer manuals so I got the 6 spd). I'd actually suggest that this: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/nissan/sentra/101109361/prices.html if you wanted something more performance oriented. Or this http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/nissan/sentra/101109359/prices.html .
The Sentra feels like a much bigger car. Rides down the road great. Has pretty good power with the 2.0 and has a timing chain (no belt to replace).
I KNOW not getting the V8 would be fairly lame, but that's a badass V6 it has. Not exactly the type of car I was looking for...but man....
Thanks for the suggestion about the Sentra, I'll look into it!
If you look at the Camaro, check out the Hyundai Genesis Coupe v6 as well. Same price, a bit more refined.
edit: If you are interested, Lone Star Chevy has some Camaros in stock. It is an hour away from you though.
You won't be able to find a Camaro in the range you're looking for unless you are really patient, they are almost universally going for 5-6K over MSRP.
I noticed you test drove the Si, it seems like that would fit your needs rather well. I've had my 2007 for a year and change now and while I don't love it, it is the most undemanding car I've ever had, while preserving a whole lot of joy-de-drive, so to speak.
Slickest manual transmission on earth too, I loves it. It has a few issues with bunny-hopping while cold and there's a TSB for the 3rd gear synchros that has hopefully been fixed in the 09 range.
So anyways I drove the Mazdaspeed 3, which was FUN (didn't stall it, but it took half a dozen tries to not squeak the tires when starting. MMM power) but afterwards I did some soul searching and decided that wasn't really the type of car I wanted to own. For starters, the Mazdaspeed and Si take premium gas and don't get great mileage, and really I don't think that's the type of car I really want to own. I'm not the speeding or racing type, and while the cars were fun to drive I'd probably spend most of the time just driving them like, well, a regular Civic.
Proven reliability means a bit more to me than I'd been letting it in my search too, I just HATE stuff breaking on cars (yah I'm unique like that). My current Civic was flawless for a couple of years of high school and 4 years of 20 mile trips to college. It broke down driving home from my college graduation, about 10 years after being manufactured, I believe. The Mazdas are probably fine but that's what the Hondas and Toyotas are famous for, it seems. Plus the Civic has a little more backseat space.
So at the moment, I'm leaning towards a Civic EX-L(until my next bout of soul searching where I decide screw it, I'm young), with the leather seats and moonroof and all that stuff, which MSRPs for about 20k (to get the moonroof and leather for the Mazda 3 would be closer to 24). I think I may get a manual transmission too, that'll be my deviation from logic and practicality. I've just plain always wanted one. Plus the 1000 bucks off the price! The good thing about that is I was really wanting to finance this over 36 months. I've got a credit score ~740-750, but not a huge amount of credit history (a computer and 1500 dollars of furniture I paid off real fast, and regular student loan payments, occasional credit card payments, but I don't usually use them), do you think I could qualify for one of their low APR dealer incentives?
I really think you would prefer the Si over the EXL, especially if you want a manual. The six-speed really is invaluable for long distance cruising and the fuel mileage benefits from EX - Si are negligible I expect. Real world, if I shift at 3500 rpms and keep my foot out of it, I see 26-27 with a 60-40 freeway-city workload and it sounds and drives just like a regular Civic. If I drive it the way I prefer (ie like I stole it), I see 23-24 with the same workload.
And the premium fuel thing shouldn't be a sticking point, it's $2.20 difference per fillup.
The Si rings up an economy of 24mpg on edmunds (which is done using a similar weighted highway vs. city driving setup like you considered) and 29mpg for the EX-L
Now those may be low as you imply, but I'm guessing uniformly low, so point is, there's a 6 mpg difference.
Average US driver drives 15000 miles a year. 15000 miles /29 mpg = 517.2 gallons a year. With 24 mpg, 625, difference of ~ 108 gallons.
I just grabbed a random google average gas price website, looked at TX, regular is 1.810, times 517 = 935ish
625 * 1.983 (premium average) = 1239ish, a fairly underwhelming 304 dollar difference (excuse my abuse of significant figures)
300 dollar a year fee for driving funness? Aww hell, now I'm conflicted
If anyone's curious, if I up regular to 3.00 and premium to 3.20, it's more like 450 a year. Still not too shabby
And if you're going to go with the EX-L, go automatic. No point in only going so far on the spectrum between "comfort" and "power/performance", might as well go all one way.
This is true, leather seats are nice. Bear in mind also though, if sat nav is a sticking point, the Si does have it available. My issue with the EX is power to price. As a prototypical American male driver under the age of 30, I have a hard time paying $22,000 for a 140 horsepower econobox when $23,XXX gets you that econobox with 197 horses, an extra gear, and a better suspension.
As for the Si, well, I thought about it for a while. 90% of the time I'm gonna drive it like a regular Civic. So 90% of the time it'd be a regular Civic but with worse mpg and premium gas. Not a huge deal like I math'd out earlier, but in the meantime I don't have leather seats and I spent possibly a 1000 more on the car. Like you said, what's another 1000 on top of 20+? Well, a TV (or whatever)! It's a small price to pay, you're right, but I decided to draw the "not small enough" line there.
Anyhoo, thanks guys, you've all been helpful as I drunkenly staggered through my decision making process!
Good luck!
I really love my car. I am glad I chose it over the EX. My friend has one and its much more entertaining to drive. Though he does get like 35ish mpg.