I recently re-installed NOLF 2 on a mad desire to revisit some of the most unique and entertaining moments in video gaming history, and as I'm playing I'm being shown proof of concept that an RPG-esque sneaker is incredbily viable.
Of course, Monolith are amazing developers and we will see if the Ubisoft team can pull off similar brilliance.
Also, I cannot believe that NOLF 2 absolutely bombed in sales. What the fuck is wrong with people.
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Dr Mario KartGames DealerAustin, TXRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Found this on craigslist for the SF area: A Thief related Focus group:
We are looking for male gamers between the ages of 18-35 to participate in paid video game focus groups in San Francisco on Tuesday, May 26 or Wednesday, May 27. If you have played any of the previous versions of THIEF and are interested, please call Andy at (323) 314-2299 or John at (323) 377-6659 or email AWfielder@mac.com for more details and specifics regarding compensation.
It will be interesting to see how they treat the Blackjack. Im thinking they might go the MGS route where you can knockout/sleep enemies for a limited time and they can be woken up by allies.
Plus it really sucks when you knock out a guard and another one finds him and automatically assumes he's dead. At least have the guard check his breathing and then wake him up. The guards in MGS are smart enough to call for backup when they get CQC'd by Snake
I think they didn't bother having the NPCs differentiate dead and unconscious NPCs, because the game is set in a renaissance-type era, when a lot of folk didn't know the difference.
If you pay attention to the conversations, you'll hear them talk about some pretty old-fashioned stuff; Once or twice you'll hear people refer mention bathing as though it's an unhealthy practice. One of the guards talks to a comrade about how his doctor recommended not bathing to improve his health or something.
I recently re-installed NOLF 2 on a mad desire to revisit some of the most unique and entertaining moments in video gaming history, and as I'm playing I'm being shown proof of concept that an RPG-esque sneaker is incredbily viable.
I don't know, I found NOLF2's stealth to be pretty dire. From very dodgy player detection that often relied on "just sneak forward and hope the person inside doesn't detect me using the magical divining method they seem to employ" to respawning enemies to enemies that wake up and sound the alarm if you knocked them out (in itself proof that people who want total realism in games are idiots), to knocked out enemies alerting everyone in the vicinity if killed whilst out. Dark Messiah on the other hand, that is proof of RPG sneakers being viable.
It will be interesting to see how they treat the Blackjack. Im thinking they might go the MGS route where you can knockout/sleep enemies for a limited time and they can be woken up by allies.
Plus it really sucks when you knock out a guard and another one finds him and automatically assumes he's dead. At least have the guard check his breathing and then wake him up. The guards in MGS are smart enough to call for backup when they get CQC'd by Snake
I think they didn't bother having the NPCs differentiate dead and unconscious NPCs, because the game is set in a renaissance-type era, when a lot of folk didn't know the difference.
If you pay attention to the conversations, you'll hear them talk about some pretty old-fashioned stuff; Once or twice you'll hear people refer mention bathing as though it's an unhealthy practice. One of the guards talks to a comrade about how his doctor recommended not bathing to improve his health or something.
Yeah, they used to believe some weird stuff back in the day.
Garrett is a cool character, but I'd rather have him become a supporting character than have them do yet another "Garrett reluctantly saves the City even though he's a cynical, selfish bastard" story. They've taken the character as far as he'll go without changing so much that he'll no longer be Garrett - and who'd want that?
Also, to those who apparently don't know, Gametap has been giving TDS out for free for a month or two now.
I played through it with a free account in April, and started playing it again the other day.
Although it's been giving me tons of loading problems the second time around, for some reason, and It keeps fucking up the save files and forcing me to start over. This has also persisted after reinstalling, so It may just be an issue on my end.
Also, to those who apparently don't know, Gametap has been giving TDS out for free for a month or two now.
I played through it with a free account in April, and started playing it again the other day.
Although it's been giving me tons of loading problems the second time around, for some reason, and It keeps fucking up the save files and forcing me to start over. This has also persisted after reinstalling, so It may just be an issue on my end.
Just be warned that Gametap doesn't support 64bit OS.
Because it's an interesting idea. If much of it is still happening, it may also mean Garret will continue as the protagonist.
Oh yeah I remember that quote, had no idea they'd actually started thinking about the details though. A modern Thief 4 really doesn't appeal to me, I was happy with the predominantly medieval-themed Thief and the more steampunk Metal Age.
Because it's an interesting idea. If much of it is still happening, it may also mean Garret will continue as the protagonist.
Oh yeah I remember that quote, had no idea they'd actually started thinking about the details though. A modern Thief 4 really doesn't appeal to me, I was happy with the predominantly medieval-themed Thief and the more steampunk Metal Age.
To be fair, from what I've read on it, it seemed the idea that they had in mind wasn't a modern-as-we-know-it Thief. It was more of a steampunk-magic setting in a quasi-modern society Thief game.
I wish I had the link to the article, you can probably find it on the TTLG forums or something, but it sounded interesting. At least in theory.
The only thing is that a modern sneaker has already be done and done very well (Splinter Cell) so Thief needs to stick in the olden-days settings (and ditch the camera bullshit) in order to stand out from the herd.
I do remember that one of the main ideas stated in the brief interview article about the re-imagining of Thief was that they didn't want a Splinter Cell clone. I really wish TTLG stayed alive long enough to pull this idea through to fruition. It would have been interesting to see how it could have turned out.
Part of me hopes that Thief 4 will attempt this, but there's a high likelihood of fucking-up on it, and I doubt that Eidos Montreal wants to re-invent the wheel, so to speak.
Eidos Montreal are the fellows who are working on the next Thief game, other than that, I don't know a whole lot about them. As far as I know, none of the old guard from LG are on this project, though I could be wrong.
I do remember that one of the main ideas stated in the brief interview article about the re-imagining of Thief was that they didn't want a Splinter Cell clone. I really wish TTLG stayed alive long enough to pull this idea through to fruition. It would have been interesting to see how it could have turned out.
I recently re-installed NOLF 2 on a mad desire to revisit some of the most unique and entertaining moments in video gaming history, and as I'm playing I'm being shown proof of concept that an RPG-esque sneaker is incredbily viable.
I don't know, I found NOLF2's stealth to be pretty dire. From very dodgy player detection that often relied on "just sneak forward and hope the person inside doesn't detect me using the magical divining method they seem to employ" to respawning enemies to enemies that wake up and sound the alarm if you knocked them out (in itself proof that people who want total realism in games are idiots), to knocked out enemies alerting everyone in the vicinity if killed whilst out. Dark Messiah on the other hand, that is proof of RPG sneakers being viable.
I don't know if Dark Messiah is a good example, its rpg elements let you decide what kind of class did you want to be, thief, mage, warrior or anything in between. Remove the magic and physical atributes and that might be stealth with rpg elements, and it wouldn't be that great honestly.
I do remember that one of the main ideas stated in the brief interview article about the re-imagining of Thief was that they didn't want a Splinter Cell clone. I really wish TTLG stayed alive long enough to pull this idea through to fruition. It would have been interesting to see how it could have turned out.
I recently re-installed NOLF 2 on a mad desire to revisit some of the most unique and entertaining moments in video gaming history, and as I'm playing I'm being shown proof of concept that an RPG-esque sneaker is incredbily viable.
I don't know, I found NOLF2's stealth to be pretty dire. From very dodgy player detection that often relied on "just sneak forward and hope the person inside doesn't detect me using the magical divining method they seem to employ" to respawning enemies to enemies that wake up and sound the alarm if you knocked them out (in itself proof that people who want total realism in games are idiots), to knocked out enemies alerting everyone in the vicinity if killed whilst out. Dark Messiah on the other hand, that is proof of RPG sneakers being viable.
The detection was a little funky at times, but the guards were really dilligent about searching around if you screwed with anything. It was also fun to try and sneak around in broad daylight, using misdirection and relying on escaping people chasing you by losing them around corners or making them slip on bananas (and other cool gags).
Also, what's inherently wrong with an enemy that you knocked out sounding the alarm? It gives the player three choices: kill someone noisily and have them permanently out of the picture, knock them out quietly and have them pop up in a few minutes (and prepare for that by hiding afterwards), or sneak by them some other way and have that as the end of it.
They've got some serious titles under their belt, including Splinter Cell, The Rainbow Six series, the POP series, Assassin's Creed (ruh roh) and a real rogue's gallery of hit or miss entires.
I do remember that one of the main ideas stated in the brief interview article about the re-imagining of Thief was that they didn't want a Splinter Cell clone. I really wish TTLG stayed alive long enough to pull this idea through to fruition. It would have been interesting to see how it could have turned out.
Dark Messiah on the other hand, that is proof of RPG sneakers being viable.
I don't know if Dark Messiah is a good example, as it was more of a linear RPG FPS than an RPG sneaker. I've played the game through to the end multiple times on multiple builds and there are huge swathes of that game that are definately not stealth-friendly.
That said, the sections that did have stealth involved were great fun, when you weren't babysitting that blonde bint or having the train run on you by Orcs.
Because it's an interesting idea. If much of it is still happening, it may also mean Garret will continue as the protagonist.
Oh yeah I remember that quote, had no idea they'd actually started thinking about the details though. A modern Thief 4 really doesn't appeal to me, I was happy with the predominantly medieval-themed Thief and the more steampunk Metal Age.
To be fair, from what I've read on it, it seemed the idea that they had in mind wasn't a modern-as-we-know-it Thief. It was more of a steampunk-magic setting in a quasi-modern society Thief game.
I wish I had the link to the article, you can probably find it on the TTLG forums or something, but it sounded interesting. At least in theory.
Er, right. I guess I mixed up medieval with fantasy. The game would lose a lot of it's punch of they scrapped the fantasy element, whereas it could be potentially modernized in a few ways without dropping it's appeal.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
From what I read of the Thief modern thing, it looked like they just threw a hoodie and a nosering on Garret and called it a day,
I don't know if Dark Messiah is a good example, its rpg elements let you decide what kind of class did you want to be, thief, mage, warrior or anything in between. Remove the magic and physical atributes and that might be stealth with rpg elements, and it wouldn't be that great honestly.
I played through it as an Assassin (daggers all the way) and it felt like Thief except with stabbing instead of blackjacking, with rope arrows, tomb raiding and everything. I stealthed/stabbed/booted my way through the entire game and it was amazing.
So... I just beat Thief 3 for the first time, and damnit, I need to talk to you guys about it.
First lets get this out of the way...
I don't know if I let myself get overhyped or not, but I was seriously expecting more from The Cradle level and ended up feeling disappointed by the time I got through it. Everyone made it out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread but I felt pretty let down in general. There were tons of other game moments I can think of that were much scarier, such as the abandoned mall in Condemned, being chased by the lynch mob in Call of Cthulhu, or even some of the levels from Thief 1 and 2.
The atmosphere was nice and creepy, and I found myself really drinking in the atmosphere before the monsters turned up, but then it just got a little tedious. I was mostly annoyed by the tasks that the ghostly girl kept giving me. I mean, I wanted to help her but after the 3rd new objective, I was a little annoyed. The monsters themselves weren't very scary to me either, they just looked like something out of a TOOL music video.
And why did they have to cut corners on the cutscenes? Half of them were done in the traditional animated style and looked great, then the other half were in-engine crap set to a sepia tone. Overall however, I enjoyed the game for what it was. Obviously its not as good as Thief 1 or 2, but it was still fun. There were some clever moments, such as influencing the keeper council decisions by knocking people out, or going up to talk to the senile pirate's widow.
I actually liked the ending too. I loved the little smile that crosses Garrett's mouth as he gets that deja vu feeling, only the roles reversed this time. By the way, was Garrett able to relcaim his eye from the artifact? I noticed one eye was red, as if he stuck it back in or something.
tl;dr - The Cradle didn't live up to all the hype for me, cutscenes were crap, liked the ending.
So I was browsing the TTLG forums and stumbled up on THIS. Holy crap, how did that manage to fly under my radar? Apparently its been out for quite a while too.
Its probably a buggy mess, but anyone feel like doing a co-op run with me?
Being told in advance about the cradle probably ruined it for you a bit. I had no idea what to expect and for me it's the scariest thing that's ever happened in gaming ever.
Yeah well, everyone was going on and on about The Cradle, especially in those "Name your scariest game moments!!" threads that pop up now and then. I avoided all spoilers until now.
And also, I agree with guards being able to be woken up by other guards, it makes hiding the bodies much more important, hehe, you don't want a guard coming across your stash of 5 guards, they'll make your day very unpleasant.
No, this is ridiculous on a gameplay level and on a realism level.
Gameplay rational: time limits create boring repetition and give no benefit to players who know the level anyway. Guards waking up other guards who have been KO'd gives less diversity of play than guards who react intelligently to knocked out other guards.
Realism rational: Its called "knocked the fuck out" for a reason. And that reason is that you hit the guy so hard his brain impacted against his skull and shut down. You can't just "wake people up" who have been knocked out.
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Still have the game though...
I better get cracking.
Azulan Saul Tigh
Of course, Monolith are amazing developers and we will see if the Ubisoft team can pull off similar brilliance.
Also, I cannot believe that NOLF 2 absolutely bombed in sales. What the fuck is wrong with people.
Hmm.
I think they didn't bother having the NPCs differentiate dead and unconscious NPCs, because the game is set in a renaissance-type era, when a lot of folk didn't know the difference.
If you pay attention to the conversations, you'll hear them talk about some pretty old-fashioned stuff; Once or twice you'll hear people refer mention bathing as though it's an unhealthy practice. One of the guards talks to a comrade about how his doctor recommended not bathing to improve his health or something.
Dark Messiah on the other hand, that is proof of RPG sneakers being viable.
Yeah, they used to believe some weird stuff back in the day.
The Publisher.
He will fuck your shit up.
Because it's an interesting idea. If much of it is still happening, it may also mean Garret will continue as the protagonist.
I played through it with a free account in April, and started playing it again the other day.
Although it's been giving me tons of loading problems the second time around, for some reason, and It keeps fucking up the save files and forcing me to start over. This has also persisted after reinstalling, so It may just be an issue on my end.
You better keep that to yourself, before rumors start spreading. :rotate:
You just reminded me of the Bloom County strip.
Just be warned that Gametap doesn't support 64bit OS.
Oh yeah I remember that quote, had no idea they'd actually started thinking about the details though. A modern Thief 4 really doesn't appeal to me, I was happy with the predominantly medieval-themed Thief and the more steampunk Metal Age.
To be fair, from what I've read on it, it seemed the idea that they had in mind wasn't a modern-as-we-know-it Thief. It was more of a steampunk-magic setting in a quasi-modern society Thief game.
I wish I had the link to the article, you can probably find it on the TTLG forums or something, but it sounded interesting. At least in theory.
The only thing is that a modern sneaker has already be done and done very well (Splinter Cell) so Thief needs to stick in the olden-days settings (and ditch the camera bullshit) in order to stand out from the herd.
Part of me hopes that Thief 4 will attempt this, but there's a high likelihood of fucking-up on it, and I doubt that Eidos Montreal wants to re-invent the wheel, so to speak.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I don't know if Dark Messiah is a good example, its rpg elements let you decide what kind of class did you want to be, thief, mage, warrior or anything in between. Remove the magic and physical atributes and that might be stealth with rpg elements, and it wouldn't be that great honestly.
I think he meant the devs.
The detection was a little funky at times, but the guards were really dilligent about searching around if you screwed with anything. It was also fun to try and sneak around in broad daylight, using misdirection and relying on escaping people chasing you by losing them around corners or making them slip on bananas (and other cool gags).
Also, what's inherently wrong with an enemy that you knocked out sounding the alarm? It gives the player three choices: kill someone noisily and have them permanently out of the picture, knock them out quietly and have them pop up in a few minutes (and prepare for that by hiding afterwards), or sneak by them some other way and have that as the end of it.
EDIT: Ubisoft Montreal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Montreal
They've got some serious titles under their belt, including Splinter Cell, The Rainbow Six series, the POP series, Assassin's Creed (ruh roh) and a real rogue's gallery of hit or miss entires.
I meant Looking Glass Studios, the company that made the first Thief game, which folded back in 2000.
I don't know if Dark Messiah is a good example, as it was more of a linear RPG FPS than an RPG sneaker. I've played the game through to the end multiple times on multiple builds and there are huge swathes of that game that are definately not stealth-friendly.
That said, the sections that did have stealth involved were great fun, when you weren't babysitting that blonde bint or having the train run on you by Orcs.
Er, right. I guess I mixed up medieval with fantasy. The game would lose a lot of it's punch of they scrapped the fantasy element, whereas it could be potentially modernized in a few ways without dropping it's appeal.
[edit] Can't forget the booting
They didn't exactly have time to do much else before thief kind of disappeared from the priority list for 4 or 5 years.
I don't know if I let myself get overhyped or not, but I was seriously expecting more from The Cradle level and ended up feeling disappointed by the time I got through it. Everyone made it out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread but I felt pretty let down in general. There were tons of other game moments I can think of that were much scarier, such as the abandoned mall in Condemned, being chased by the lynch mob in Call of Cthulhu, or even some of the levels from Thief 1 and 2.
The atmosphere was nice and creepy, and I found myself really drinking in the atmosphere before the monsters turned up, but then it just got a little tedious. I was mostly annoyed by the tasks that the ghostly girl kept giving me. I mean, I wanted to help her but after the 3rd new objective, I was a little annoyed. The monsters themselves weren't very scary to me either, they just looked like something out of a TOOL music video.
And why did they have to cut corners on the cutscenes? Half of them were done in the traditional animated style and looked great, then the other half were in-engine crap set to a sepia tone. Overall however, I enjoyed the game for what it was. Obviously its not as good as Thief 1 or 2, but it was still fun. There were some clever moments, such as influencing the keeper council decisions by knocking people out, or going up to talk to the senile pirate's widow.
I actually liked the ending too. I loved the little smile that crosses Garrett's mouth as he gets that deja vu feeling, only the roles reversed this time. By the way, was Garrett able to relcaim his eye from the artifact? I noticed one eye was red, as if he stuck it back in or something.
tl;dr - The Cradle didn't live up to all the hype for me, cutscenes were crap, liked the ending.
So I was browsing the TTLG forums and stumbled up on THIS. Holy crap, how did that manage to fly under my radar? Apparently its been out for quite a while too.
Its probably a buggy mess, but anyone feel like doing a co-op run with me?
No, this is ridiculous on a gameplay level and on a realism level.
Gameplay rational: time limits create boring repetition and give no benefit to players who know the level anyway. Guards waking up other guards who have been KO'd gives less diversity of play than guards who react intelligently to knocked out other guards.
Realism rational: Its called "knocked the fuck out" for a reason. And that reason is that you hit the guy so hard his brain impacted against his skull and shut down. You can't just "wake people up" who have been knocked out.