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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Bracket 10

Doctor DoomDoctor Doom Registered User regular
edited December 2006 in Graphic Violence
Match A:

175px-Sinestro.jpg

Sinestro

Powers: Oddly shaped head, Qwardian power ring which makes hard light constructs and weapons limited only by the user's will and imagination.

Vs.

250px-Loki64.PNG

Loki

Powers: Vast magical powers, typical superhuman attributes of Asgardian race such as extended longevity and superhuman strength, great intellect, shape-shifter

Environment: Thanagar. Neither competitor may go off planet. Or be thrown off planet by the opponent.


Match B

225px-Bright_luthor.png

Lex Luthor

Powers: Genius intellect, skilled hand to hand combatant.

Equipment: One .45 handgun, rapier. Lex Luthor does not have access to his battlesuit for this match.

Vs.

250px-Rasalghul.PNG

Ra's Al Ghul

Powers: Genius intellect, skilled hand to hand combatant, skilled alchemist, skilled fencer

Equipment: One .45 handgun, rapier.

Environment: The Baxter Building. Both opponents have full access to all equipment. Leaving the building results in a disqualification.

Doctor Doom on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Lex is screwed.

    The other fight is going to be awesome.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited December 2006
    Yeah, Lex is more of a tech guy. Ra's is a fighter.

    Garlic Bread on
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    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Lex is screwed.

    The other fight is going to be awesome.

    How the fuck is Lex screwed?

    He's far better with electronics than Ras. And everything in the Baxter building is electronic.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
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    WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited December 2006
    loki, lex

    because, fuck me, lex is awesome

    also loki

    loki all the way

    thor v. loki '07

    Whippy on
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    NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    loki and ras. seriously.

    Nogs on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    When you list Loki's abilities like that, he doesn't sound that strong. I also heard he's kinda wimpy for a god.

    How is Ra's with tech?

    Also, remember that Mr. Fantastic isn't exactly an arms dealer.

    robosagogo on
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    Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Yeah, Lex is more of a tech guy. Ra's is a fighter.

    Uh, I dunno how much you know about the Baxter Building, but it's full of tech

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Yeah, Lex is more of a tech guy. Ra's is a fighter.

    Uh, I dunno how much you know about the Baxter Building, but it's full of tech
    Not necessarily lethal tech or even much in the way of non-lethal weapons, though, and time constraints prevent Lex from assembling something from scratch.

    robosagogo on
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    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Yeah, Lex is more of a tech guy. Ra's is a fighter.

    Uh, I dunno how much you know about the Baxter Building, but it's full of tech
    Not necessarily lethal tech or even much in the way of non-lethal weapons, though, and time constraints prevent Lex from assembling something from scratch.

    He's Lex fucking Luthor.

    All he needs is particle accelerator and a few moments.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I hardly know which way to go.

    I'm thinking Lex and Loki.

    Scooter on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    When has Loki ever been in a straight fight anyway? I've only known him to manipulate and have other people fight for him.

    robosagogo on
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    The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Here's what's going to happen.

    Lex goes to construct a super powerful doomsday weapon that can erase RA's from existence.

    Ra's Al Ghul goes up and stabs his fucking throat with the sword.

    The_Lightbringer on
    LuciferSig.jpg
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    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Al Ghul and Lex are so evenly matched here it's very hard to say how it will go. If they start the fight in the same room I could see it going Ra's way very quickly. If they start at opposite ends of the building it would be more interesting and I think in the end favor Lex.

    Loki wins his fight hands down. He's all shifty and manipulative, he'll weasel his way to victory somehow.

    Lex and Loki are my picks.

    Caveman Paws on
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    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Here's what's going to happen.

    Lex goes to construct a super powerful doomsday weapon that can erase RA's from existence.

    Ra's Al Ghul goes up and stabs his fucking throat with the sword.

    Then Robo-Lex explodes, as real Lex smiles and sips champaign watching Ra's die a slow and painful death.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
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    Brodo FagginsBrodo Faggins Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Now THIS is a bracket. Sinestro and Lex. Ra's is good and all, but come on.

    It's Lex Flippin' Luthor!

    Brodo Faggins on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    I hardly know which way to go.

    I'm thinking Lex and Loki.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Eliot DuboisEliot Dubois Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    this is probably the best bracket in the entire fight. Sure, Loki is a god damned god, but let's face it, Sinestro is pretty damn close. I'll give it to Loki on the sheer fact that Sinestro is too busy tying some damsel to a set of rail road tracks.

    Ra's and Lex is a good fight too, but the enviroment leads me to think that Lex can probably sneak around, figure something out and get the job done.

    Eliot Dubois on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Loki could probably stir up some shit on Thanagar, which is what I was thinking.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I am also going to go with Lex and Loki.

    Lex would be like a horribly deadly kid in a playground full of horribly deadly toys, and Loki is too tricky for Sinestro.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I am also going to go with Lex and Loki.

    Lex would be like a horribly deadly kid in a playground full of horribly deadly toys, and Loki is too tricky for Sinestro.
    I'm pretty sure Mr. Fantastic doesn't spend much time building deadly things, especially with precocious youngsters and the often borderline retarded Human Torch running around. Most of his devices are geared towards exploration, not combat.

    But then I haven't been reading Civil War, so there might be a fucking Thor clone next to the box of rape-o-matics.

    robosagogo on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Yeah, Lex is more of a tech guy. Ra's is a fighter.

    Uh, I dunno how much you know about the Baxter Building, but it's full of tech
    Not necessarily lethal tech or even much in the way of non-lethal weapons, though, and time constraints prevent Lex from assembling something from scratch.

    He's Lex fucking Luthor.

    All he needs is particle accelerator and a few moments.
    This man speaks truth.

    Olivaw on
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    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    New this fall on FOX! You loved him in "Louis&Clark" don't miss Lex Luthor in the new hit show of the season: Lex&McGuyver...

    This would have been more amusing and current if I did it like ten years ago, when Louis&Clark was still on the air. Yeah.

    To be honest I really just completely ripped off Robot Chicken.

    Caveman Paws on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    New this fall on FOX! You loved him in "Louis&Clark" don't miss Lex Luthor in the new hit show of the season: Lex&McGuyver...

    This would have been more amusing and current if I did it like ten years ago, when Louis&Clark was still on the air. Yeah.

    To be honest I really just completely ripped off Robot Chicken.
    Louis and Clark? Is that the gay sitcom version of Superman?

    -SPI- on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I am also going to go with Lex and Loki.

    Lex would be like a horribly deadly kid in a playground full of horribly deadly toys, and Loki is too tricky for Sinestro.
    I'm pretty sure Mr. Fantastic doesn't spend much time building deadly things, especially with precocious youngsters and the often borderline retarded Human Torch running around. Most of his devices are geared towards exploration, not combat.

    But then I haven't been reading Civil War, so there might be a fucking Thor clone next to the box of rape-o-matics.

    The Baxter Building may not be full of deadly weapons, but it is full of equipment that a fertile mind like Luthor could quite easily and quickly convert into deadly weapons. The building also has a security system, probably with lasers, and really, Lex just has to hijack that thing and he wins. Especially since Reed Richards, according to Tony Stark, sucks at making his computers hacker-proof.

    But yeah, the Baxter Building is full of potential deadly weapons and rooms that could be turned into horrible deathtraps with only the most basic of modifications.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Laser's are fucking overrated. Even if Reed has them as opposed to non-lethal alternatives (since half the people who encounter the Baxter Building security system are heroes who just want to to talk), it's not as though there's anything a laser can do that a gun or sword cannot. A laser can kill you slightly faster, granted, but the guns and swords are RIGHT THERE to use, no assembly required.

    And I'm pretty sure Ra's, who is on par with Batman, can bypass a sci-fi security system.



    I really don't see the Baxter Building as a deathtrap waiting to happen when Franklin's constantly running around, and is capable of getting into restricted areas. Like I said, Reed isn't an arms manufacturer and the FF's powers are generally all they take with them on adventures. Aside from the Thor clone, it's all been for the benefit of mankind.

    robosagogo on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    They don't start off opposite each other. They have to find each other first. And Lex would take that time to load up on some heavy improvised armour and ordinance.

    And the swords and guns may be right there, but they don't allow you to find and shoot someone in half with a laser beam from a locked room across the building.

    And Ra's may be on par with Batman, but Luthor is much, much more of a technical genius than either of them. He would be able to take control of the security system and keep in control.

    And you may not think of the Baxter Building as a potential death trap, but it totally is. It almost certainly has lasers for security reasons. After all, gas or cages won't stop a squad of Skrulls from wrecking up the place, or Annihilus from getting out. You need heavy ordinance for that.

    There's also lasers for scientific purposes, cutting through exotic materials and such. It would only take Luthor moments to customize that thing.

    They both have total access not only to the equipment already installed in the building, but also to Reed Richards' tools and other inventing equipment.


    Ra's is much more of a chemist than an engineer and super-technician. There is technology all over the place, but only a small place where he could get anything to cook up some deadly poison, which is a much more delicate operation than improvising a battery for a laser you yanked off the ceiling and a force field generator you unscrewed from the wall.


    Also, Reed definitely has weapons in the Baxter Building for his own use, in case he needs to defend himself against a powerful foe.


    The Baxter Building is full of science and technology that could easily be converted into pretty much any horrible weapon by the likes of Lex Luthor. To deny this is simply laughable, I mean, come on. That would mean that there is nothing in the Baxter Building that is potentially lethal, when much less advanced and complex buildings are full of potential death traps.

    Spectre-x on
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    RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The thing is, the Baxer building isn't a shopping mall. There's no big colorful map saying "You are here" and pointing out where shit is. I find it hard to believe that Ra's is going to be just standing there jerking off his dick while Lex goes running all through a multi-story office building kicking down doors trying to find something useful.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ra's is more likely to try and go find Luthor than he is likely to try to make some sort of weapon, unless he manages to come across a batch of chemicals by accident.

    Ra's doesn't have the technical expertise to turn whatever equipment can be found in the Baxter Building into ray guns or whatever. He's a fearsome opponent even without them.

    It's just that the fight, due to its super high-tech backdrop, definitely favours Luthor because, baby, in the Baxter Building he is like a kid in a candy store.

    Spectre-x on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    LASER! doesn't automatically equal HOMING LASER THAT CAN SEE THROUGH WALLs.

    In fact, taking a security laser off from the ceiling isn't going to give you a particularly useful weapon. It's inaccurate and not weighted for combat, and chances are the power source wasn't in the laser itself either. A scientific laser, meanwhile, certainly isn't designed to be a handy weapon so much as a highly precise device made to cut through stationary objects located a couple of feet in front of you on a table.

    Seriously, even with Skrulls and Annihilus, 90% of the time the people breaking in are The Masked Marvel or The Power Pack for another edition of Marvel Team-Up. Spider-Man breaking in just to prove himself kind of set a precedent.

    And how many times has the security system gone haywire and attacked the FF themselves, Franklin included? If Franklin isn't going to be offed that way, then neither is Ra's who'll know how to avoid surveilance and therefore the attacks directed at him.



    I'm sure Lex could put something mean together, but given unfamiliarity with the lab and time constraints I doubt he'd have a proper chance to.

    robosagogo on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    LASER! doesn't automatically equal HOMING LASER THAT CAN SEE THROUGH WALLs.

    Video cameras, ceiling-mounted lasers that can be controlled from across the building, that is what I am getting at.

    If Lex hacks the security system, he probably won't give Ra's a moment's notice before he shoots his head off with a laser beam or some shit like that. And Hacking the security system is completely different from it going haywire. Apparently Reed's firewalling sucks, so Luthor could easily break in, seeing as he is just as big a genius, at least on the technical side, as Reed.

    It's still full of lasers and forcefields and any number of machines and devices that could be turned into deadly weapons.

    And Luthor is a biiiig genius. He can modify whatever technology he finds so that it suits his standards properly. He can take off whatever parts are not necessary, twiddle with the settings a bit, weld a handle to it, cross some wires, wrench a power cell from a H.E.R.B.I.E. unit and presto, one portable laser cannon, ready to go.

    Lather rinse and repeat, only with a force field generator, and hey, rudimentary protective bubble!

    I don't see what's so difficult about this. Lex is an incredible scientific genius who can build robots and lasers and what have you with the most basic materials. He is easily on par with Richards as far as tech stuff goes, so why shouldn't he be able to convert whatever useful objects he finds into more powerful weapons and protection?

    And what time restraints? He could just lock himself in the lab so he won't be able to be disturbed and then, when he's ready, he can come looking for Ra's with a motion detector he also built, or infrared goggles.

    Spectre-x on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Loki's going to trick Sinestro into DQing himself.

    Lex/Ra's is the best thing ever. I can see Lex cobbling a crude powersuit together out of gadgets and spare parts, but that takes time. If he can find a way to stave Ra's off, he can take the fight, if not, it is still anyone's game. In fact, I'd prefer a straight swordfight, with one of them capping the other in the gut while their blades are locked.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    LASER! doesn't automatically equal HOMING LASER THAT CAN SEE THROUGH WALLs.

    Video cameras, ceiling-mounted lasers that can be controlled from across the building, that is what I am getting at.

    If Lex hacks the security system, he probably won't give Ra's a moment's notice before he shoots his head off with a laser beam or some shit like that. And Hacking the security system is completely different from it going haywire. Apparently Reed's firewalling sucks, so Luthor could easily break in, seeing as he is just as big a genius, at least on the technical side, as Reed.

    It's still full of lasers and forcefields and any number of machines and devices that could be turned into deadly weapons.

    And Luthor is a biiiig genius. He can modify whatever technology he finds so that it suits his standards properly. He can take off whatever parts are not necessary, twiddle with the settings a bit, weld a handle to it, cross some wires, wrench a power cell from a H.E.R.B.I.E. unit and presto, one portable laser cannon, ready to go.

    Lather rinse and repeat, only with a force field generator, and hey, rudimentary protective bubble!

    I don't see what's so difficult about this. Lex is an incredible scientific genius who can build robots and lasers and what have you with the most basic materials. He is easily on par with Richards as far as tech stuff goes, so why shouldn't he be able to convert whatever useful objects he finds into more powerful weapons and protection?

    And what time restraints? He could just lock himself in the lab so he won't be able to be disturbed and then, when he's ready, he can come looking for Ra's with a motion detector he also built, or infrared goggles.

    Unless the camera you're using to aim the laser has fucking cross hairs on it, you won't be making accurate attacks. Furthermore, I doubt the FF even has a control room for their security system since none of them spend any time in a security control room, I've never heard mention of a control room, and it's an obvious liability to have one room that your foes can break into and then use to swiftly turn your defenses against you. Pretty sure Reed keeps the controls for the security system on himself.

    I also don't think Lex is on par with Reed. The Lex face tower isn't on par with the Baxter Building, and when has Lex ever made a trip into space or visited another dimension? Hell, most of his best stuff is borrowed from Apokolips.

    The time constraints were the ones that come with BEING HUNTED DOWN, but I guess I forgot that Lex can just lock a door and remain undisturbed for as long as he wants.

    robosagogo on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    When Lex was a teenager, he built a machine that could see across time. It happened in Birthright, which is now canon. Also the fact that he can easily operate most alien machinery he comes into contact with says something about him. He has developed synthetic liquid kryptonite, and he's done business with Darkseid for a long time, which would indicate that he knows a lot about Fourth World technology. Which is incredibly impressive by anyone's standards.

    His tower isn't as advanced as the Baxter Building because it's more an office building than it is purely a research center like the Baxter Building is. But to deny that Lex is an incredibly scientific and technological genius is simply laughable and you should just stop it. You're just wrong. He's really, really, really smart and skilled with machines.

    Lex doesn't visit other dimensions or go to space because he has people to do that for him. He's been to space once, though, in an orbiting space station, which he probably built, along with a bunch of villains.

    He's one of the smartest people on DC earth. He would certainly be able to understand the Baxter Building's technology. He has worked with Motherboxes and Apokoliptian battlesuits, compared to that, anything in the Baxter Building is laughably obsolete. That's not to say that he could surpass Richards in inventing shit, but Lex would certainly know how to operate and modify the vast majority of technology in the building.

    And he can't just lock the door, he can weld it shut as well.

    Lex is technology-oriented. This gives him a definite advantage in the Baxter Building.

    Spectre-x on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Oh, man. There's a portal to the negative zone in the baxter building.

    Bye bye time, Mr. al-Ghul.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    also, reed is totally an arms dealer

    remember in enemy of the state when those aim dudes jacked his disc and it was just jam-packed with terrifying devices to end all life in the universe and even the dudes from aim were like jesus christ reed richards!

    Servo on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm with Spex on this one. Anything tech-centric is a huge bonus in Lex's favor. And as far as time is concerned, I'm sure Lex could lock enough security doors to buy him the time he needs to cook something up.

    Scooter on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Didn't suggest Lex was an idiot, merely said he wasn't in Reed's league. Purely by virtue of the fact that he doesn't spend as much time working as Reed, his skills aren't sharp enough to qualify as Reed's rival. True about him being adept at using even completely alien technologies, which would be useful in this fight.

    Still, not buying the possibility that Lex could beat Ra's with a laser, though. Tons of heroes shoot lasers and laser equivalents from their hands, but I wouldn't expect them to best Ra's in combat.

    And speaking of hacking into the buildings systems, didn't Ra's hack into Batman's computers and steal his files on how to beat the Justice League?

    robosagogo on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Didn't suggest Lex was an idiot, merely said he wasn't in Reed's league. Purely by virtue of the fact that he doesn't spend as much time working as Reed, his skills aren't sharp enough to qualify as Reed's rival. True about him being adept at using even completely alien technologies, which would be useful in this fight.

    Still, not buying the possibility that Lex could beat Ra's with a laser, though. Tons of heroes shoot lasers and laser equivalents from their hands, but I wouldn't expect them to best Ra's in combat.

    And speaking of hacking into the buildings systems, didn't Ra's hack into Batman's computers and steal his files on how to beat the Justice League?

    actually he had talia do it

    and really? because i would expect anyone who could stand more than fifteen feet away from ra's to be able to shoot him pretty easy.

    it's not like he wears a lot of chest armor

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Servo wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    Didn't suggest Lex was an idiot, merely said he wasn't in Reed's league. Purely by virtue of the fact that he doesn't spend as much time working as Reed, his skills aren't sharp enough to qualify as Reed's rival. True about him being adept at using even completely alien technologies, which would be useful in this fight.

    Still, not buying the possibility that Lex could beat Ra's with a laser, though. Tons of heroes shoot lasers and laser equivalents from their hands, but I wouldn't expect them to best Ra's in combat.

    And speaking of hacking into the buildings systems, didn't Ra's hack into Batman's computers and steal his files on how to beat the Justice League?

    actually he had talia do it

    and really? because i would expect anyone who could stand more than fifteen feet away from ra's to be able to shoot him pretty easy.

    it's not like he wears a lot of chest armor
    He's nimble!

    robosagogo on
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    Sugar MagnoliaSugar Magnolia Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Man sinestro is one butt ugly dude

    Sugar Magnolia on
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