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When an MMO dies, does it go to heaven?
Henroid
Mexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
Mexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
EDIT - This is not to talk about WoW's performance solely; make it matter in context. :evil:
Not sure how we got around to it, but a friend brought up Tabula Rasa recently and how it went under. I wanted to know what number of subscribers they had (both total and their highpoint) to make them decide to shut it all down.
And then I started wondering about what happens when an MMO goes under. What's the sort of OK time for it, and what should the company do for those who were willing to pay? And what should the company do at that point as well, in a general sense.
The argument my friend brought up is that when people buy an MMO, they know what they're getting into in this regard and she's absolutely right. It won't last forever, and that's that. But I'm wondering if there's things the company could do like release tools for people to run private servers if they still want to play. Like, "Okay, we can't run this anymore and we won't be taking your money, but if you still enjoy it and have the means here's the shit you need to still play." Would that sort of thing actually hurt the company in any way I can't conceive?
I guess my problem would be that, like the games I bought for the PS2 I can still play after all these years, regardless of a company's position. The understood process of MMO payment is that the monthly fee isn't just for server maintenance. There's work being done to fix the game or add to it. When a company stops adding to the game, and the playerbase dwindles, how much server oomph is necessary to support the remainder? Is it feasible to offer it as a free service given enough time (since our broadband technologies still improve, and generally what was top of the line then isn't now and costs less)?
Lotsa questions with answers for sure, but I guess I wanted to see people's take on things.
If anything, I'm now realizing the sort of risk companies take in doing this sort of business. Like going into the MMO business with a brand name automatically grants a level of attraction, but fresh-start games really have to step it up a notch or be unique (like City of Heroes - fantasy MMO's have met their end).
Not sure how we got around to it, but a friend brought up Tabula Rasa recently and how it went under. I wanted to know what number of subscribers they had (both total and their highpoint) to make them decide to shut it all down.
And then I started wondering about what happens when an MMO goes under. What's the sort of OK time for it, and what should the company do for those who were willing to pay? And what should the company do at that point as well, in a general sense.
The argument my friend brought up is that when people buy an MMO, they know what they're getting into in this regard and she's absolutely right. It won't last forever, and that's that. But I'm wondering if there's things the company could do like release tools for people to run private servers if they still want to play. Like, "Okay, we can't run this anymore and we won't be taking your money, but if you still enjoy it and have the means here's the shit you need to still play." Would that sort of thing actually hurt the company in any way I can't conceive?
I guess my problem would be that, like the games I bought for the PS2 I can still play after all these years, regardless of a company's position. The understood process of MMO payment is that the monthly fee isn't just for server maintenance. There's work being done to fix the game or add to it. When a company stops adding to the game, and the playerbase dwindles, how much server oomph is necessary to support the remainder? Is it feasible to offer it as a free service given enough time (since our broadband technologies still improve, and generally what was top of the line then isn't now and costs less)?
Lotsa questions with answers for sure, but I guess I wanted to see people's take on things.
If anything, I'm now realizing the sort of risk companies take in doing this sort of business. Like going into the MMO business with a brand name automatically grants a level of attraction, but fresh-start games really have to step it up a notch or be unique (like City of Heroes - fantasy MMO's have met their end).
Henroid on
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Well it's not like they're in a position to do that in the near future. And really, imagine the double-edge sword Blizzard has made for themselves. In order to keep their 10 million addicts, they're going to have to keep providing content. And one day they're going to not be able to keep that up, and the playerbase will resent the ever-living fuck out of them.
A month. $180 million. Every month. On just subscriptions.
Blizzard could buy any number of programmers necessary to keep fresh content coming. It's not going anywhere soon.
That's pure profit, you bonafide economist.
Well jeepers, Cap'n Obvious, maybe then I should add the initial sales of the 25+ million copies of the game and its expansions, include the sweet, sweet licensing fees, not to mention the whoring out of the brand to whoever is willing to pay for merchendise, and maybe, just maybe, that might counteract the outlay for the astronomical number of servers and maintenence, development and manufacture of the game, and advertising.
I'm sure Blizz still has enough to buy a swimming pool filled with Ferraris and hookers every other day.
Considering the performance of the best selling non-MMO games in the industry's history and what is considered a "blockbuster success", WoW is outperforming those games every month.
My point stands.
... and why wouldn't they be able to keep creating new content? They have every reason to keep it going as long as it's profitable. I'm fairly sure they wouldn't throw away their billions of dollars because they were worried that any future developments wouldn't fit in with the lore.
They can and will drain themselves creatively. You've gotta imagine that they aren't in the meeting room like, "We need ideas" and start working on the first idea brought up. They're rejecting shit all the time.
And if they return to previously rejected ideas, the playerbase will know.
Oh, I forgot you did their accounting, my bad.
What? No. Blizzard has the money to hire a ridiculous amount of creative talent. They're not going to run out of ideas any time soon.
Yeah. I guess they could do something stupid like re-release a dungeon from two expansions ago as the main raiding content for the initial release of a new expansion. People who play WoW would be way too smart to buy into those shenanigans.
Blizz doesn't take themselves seriously when filling out content. There's an achievement for buying a purse from Paris Hilton in the game, for christ sake.
Blizz knows what keeps people mainlining WoW, and it's timesinks on the promise that they'll get pretty new gear and/or toys.
They know full well that they could put any crazy series of quests/dailies/grind in the game, and as long as the carrot is shiny enough, people will come back for more, day after day. We just came off of two of the lamest holiday events in the game, but there everyone was, fighting over egg spawns to get a dress and the squishy clothies stealing the flag from their better equipped teammates.
Hi, publicly traded company's widely available SEC filings! How are you? Do I have to be an accountant at Blizz to see your creamy middles? No? What, Link on a train is an idiot? Well, we knew that :P
http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/sec.xhtml?ID=42465&Page=1&Sort=DA
Anyway, I think it's far more likely WoW will shut down when, eight years from now, blizzard decides to launch WoW2 and gives you a vanity item if you migrate your subscription over to the new game.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Edit: The point is the game has been ridiculously cheap to make content for so far, and the fact is that if you had played near the start and near now, you would recognized that they were absolute stones on certain issues before and now they are changing stuff up all the time. They are kind of at the whim of what customers want and its working so far, and they definitely have the time and money to keep it that way. The game with the recent expansion is definitely not the same game they released, and it will definitely continue that evolution as time goes on, as long as people keep paying.
double edit: you should ignore my post I have been up 18 hours.
Rejected ideas. As in ideas not used in it yet but are sub-par compared to the sub-par shit already in game.
I guess this is going to inevitably become a WoW thread. I'm shocked, really, I am.
Robert Ashley's A Life Well Wasted has a pretty awesome segment in the(second?) episode. It's a guy breaking down and crying about how much he loves the people he met and he's gonna miss them all. Right before shutdown.
WoW is the model for a successful MMO. You don't really gain anything by having a discussion about MMO's and ignoring WoW.
Whether this is the fault of publishers, of the IP, of the business model, or just general lack of incentive for consumers to pursue MMOs other than WoW, I don't know. Probably a little of everything. Either way, it has become a horrible, horrible market, and while I can't exactly fault WoW for that, whoever decides to make an even remotely ambitious MMO is instantly at a disadvantage.
But we'll see if all the free/Asian/microtransaction MMOs will prove to be more financially viable in the long run. That could change things.
Me, I just wish everyone would stop aping Everquest. I'm sick of that particular style of gameplay.
Expect that would be assuming that all the 12 million subscribers are from EU/America.
As I understand, in China they have a different kind of paying system.
LOTRO remains sadly undiscovered by way too many people. Former WoW player speaks from experience on that one.
A Western(like gunslinger western) would be a lot of fun. Outlaw/Lawmen/Crafter classes. Plot land and participate in Land rushes.
Biggest problem is there would be no MMO to copy from, so the company would have to do a lot of fresh thinking with it. My prediction is 90% of Fantasy MMO's fail, but if it's any other time setting it goes down to 85%
Weird. I've found that the story-telling ramps up from the tutorial onward.
Personally, after AC2, it's highly unlikely that I'm going to buy another Turbine (is Turbine even in business anymore?) game. Once it came to light that AC2 was simply a game to test their engine for LOTRO I was pretty upset. Not just that, but the game had a terrible lack of content. The whole emerging after an apocalypse idea was cool, but no functioning towns? Who's bright idea was that? Apparently, we were supposd to be able to rebuild the towns by bringing in resources, but I never saw that happen. What about AC2 makes me want to play Turbines next game? Not a whole lot. The game itself was fun, but it's lack of content was a big turn off.
Regardless, giving the game itself back to the community shows a lot of goodwill and it will garner respect for your company. In the AC2 example, there were people who attempted to start their own private servers. There was enough of a following left for this to happen, but Turbine shut it down. Shutting down the game itself is bad enough, but preventing people continuing to enjoy your game in a way that's not damaging to your business model? Not a good way to keep your previous and potential future customers happy.
I wasn't sure if they started a new company, or sold the engine and rights to another company. I can't seem to access the LOTRO website from work today for some reason, so I couldn't check myself :P
While I would love MMO's to diversify and would be all over a Western style MMO, I still prefer high fantasy. It's definitely my favourite genre. Given a choice between any theme of MMO, of equal quality, I'll always choose high fantasy. I know that I'm not alone. It's a super popular setting that isn't going anywhere.
I'd like to see more sci-fi MMO's really. Star Trek Online looks interesting and I'll probably give it a whirl. I've been waiting a long time for a game where you can fly around in space in a ship, then land on a planet, get out and run around with your avatar.
Right now I'm not playing any MMO's. I played WoW from beta all the way up until last summer. I just had enough. Heck, I even have a girlfriend now who plays WoW and I haven't gone back. It just lost it's luster to me. I always feel the need to have an MMO to play, but there's nothing that can hold my attention right now. I followed Darkfall for 5 years, got into beta and was disappointed. Now I really have nothing on the horizon that I'm looking forward to in terms on MMO's.
Anyway... I personally would prefer it if the companies were to leave the source code to the fans, but I have a feeling why this doesn't happen is because of some bullshit about copyright law. I got to admit I'm not read up on it, but they likely don't because even if you are no longer running the service, if you don't defend your ownership of it... I can't fucking remember, damn it.
If it weren't for the first Star Wars MMO, this one could definitely have a place in that long-lasting lifeline that of WoW or Everquest or Ultima. It helps that it isn't the same fantasy setting, and it's got a brand name to it. Aren't they putting in the light / dark side aspects to it as well though? Gimmicks or functionality, however you want to see it, like that could save MMOs from the early grave of 2 to 3 year spans.
I remember gogamer.com was selling Tabula Rasa for $2 new a short time before the announcement came that the servers would be shut down.
WoW won't end until WoW 3 is on store shelves so hopelessly addicted nuts should have options.
Bet those fucks never mentioned that the games were dying via choking on their own bile huh?
World of Starcraft is coming out?!?
*orgasms*
But World of Starcraft would basically be like a re-skinned World of Warcraft
maybe they will play both simultaneously. that could be cool.
Only problem with this idea is if we'll be able to play as zerg and protoss from the start, and when the announcement/release date comes to fruition. Nothing is worse than a gamer's anxiety to play the next best MMO. Blizzard iz de Beatles
@ Obs
I hope they don't use WoW's mechanics at all for Starcraft. I'm thinking Blizzard is genius enough to come up with something more fast paced and real time. But many Indians will cry more tears if they see a red and blue health bar.