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Star Trek: Obama V Sisko - ORATE OFF!

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Posts

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    EdS25 wrote: »
    So I've been watching TOS on Netflix (thanks to whoever mentioned it was on there - saved me $70). Something started to bother me. Here is the order of things that seemed a little . . . familiar (don't think it needs spoilers but wth).
    1) Uhura flirts with Spock, both on the bridge and the song.
    2) When Mitchell starts getting godlike powers, Spock's first option is to strand him on Delta Vega. Thing is, Delta Vega's not an ice planet, but they do mention possibly flooding it with radiation.
    3) Either way, the next ep does feature an ice planet, which was shrinking down to nothing.
    4) Sulu's fencing.
    5) The end of Ep 4 had the gravity slingshot/introduction to time travel stuff.

    So within 4 episodes of TOS, we end up having quite a few plot points from the movie. Could be a big coincidence, but being cynical I imagine Orci and Kurtzman sitting down to write the movie, popping in the DVD's, watching these first 4 eps, deciding they had enough material/references, and running with it. So by that logic, to all people wondering what the next movie will be about : crazy virus, doppelgangers, and space hookers. Should be fun.

    you're not being serious right

    Medopine on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'd love to see a show where the Federation doesn't act polite pussy style all the time.

    You need to watch some DS9. Sisko definately came more from the Kirk school of command then the Picard school.

    Thomamelas on
  • edited May 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    There should be an entire show about Garak being awesome.

    desperaterobots on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    EdS25 wrote: »
    So I've been watching TOS on Netflix (thanks to whoever mentioned it was on there - saved me $70). Something started to bother me. Here is the order of things that seemed a little . . . familiar (don't think it needs spoilers but wth).
    1) Uhura flirts with Spock, both on the bridge and the song.
    2) When Mitchell starts getting godlike powers, Spock's first option is to strand him on Delta Vega. Thing is, Delta Vega's not an ice planet, but they do mention possibly flooding it with radiation.
    3) Either way, the next ep does feature an ice planet, which was shrinking down to nothing.
    4) Sulu's fencing.
    5) The end of Ep 4 had the gravity slingshot/introduction to time travel stuff.

    So within 4 episodes of TOS, we end up having quite a few plot points from the movie. Could be a big coincidence, but being cynical I imagine Orci and Kurtzman sitting down to write the movie, popping in the DVD's, watching these first 4 eps, deciding they had enough material/references, and running with it. So by that logic, to all people wondering what the next movie will be about : crazy virus, doppelgangers, and space hookers. Should be fun.

    you're not being serious right

    You can check for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Zk2dX5DnW_c

    Somebody at Paramount got the brilliant idea of putting the whole series up on Youtube legally.

    Thomamelas on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.

    Der Waffle Mous on
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  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    I don't dispute those things happened in those episodes

    I think your revelation is a bit silly - of course they pulled from TOS! but to suggest they just watched four eps and called it good?

    doubt it

    Medopine on
  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    TOS type stuff happening in a TOS movie? Surely not!

    evilbob on
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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    Okay, so I'll admit that I'm unclear on how they failed to adhere to, uh, standard supernova properties. It was an exploding star, right? It exploded earlier than expected and destroyed shit. What was the problem there again?

    they don't uh...move that fast? as in romulus would have had a lot of advance warning

    I assumed it was the Romulus star that was exploding... Wiki says a supernova can they can explode at 1/10th the speed of light. Sounds fast enough to me that I can believe the events as depicted, unless I've missed that it was some other random star.

    Did you read his post?

    You can handle scifi plot points better than they did, far better, without resorting to technobabble.

    Yes I read his post. His suggestion was to replace Red Matter with something more complicated. The point I was making that calling it Red Matter, Dark Matter, SuperPVA Matter, An Experimental Black Hole Device, A Quantum Emergency Ripcord Plot Detonator... it's all just as bullshit as what they wound up going with.

    Point taken that less nerds would have been upset if they'd thrown in a few qualifiers - A Super-supernova, or a Double-Quantum-Black Hole - but again, I don't see that the benefit of pacifying pedants outweighs the possibility of alienating the mainstream audience you're attempting to court.

    Why is it more complicated to call it a black hole device? Seems more straightforward to me. And yes, there is a difference between that and "red matter". With the former, you can just assume that scientists have somehow figured out how to make black holes without needing to know the specifics--red matter calls attention to itself as being, like I said, MAGIC!

    OremLK on
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  • EdS25EdS25 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    I don't dispute those things happened in those episodes

    I think your revelation is a bit silly - of course they pulled from TOS! but to suggest they just watched four eps and called it good?

    doubt it

    Actually I guess it was five eps because Pike was in Episode 0. And yes, I'm joking. It just seemed funny/highly coincidental at the time, particularly with all the discussion of the many controversies surrounding the ice planet. The converse is I'm sure glad they didn't base the movie on the rest of the stuff that happened in those episodes (although Spock using multiple double-fist slaps on the salt creature/Bones' ex was hilarious).

    EdS25 on
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  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    OremLK wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Okay, so I'll admit that I'm unclear on how they failed to adhere to, uh, standard supernova properties. It was an exploding star, right? It exploded earlier than expected and destroyed shit. What was the problem there again?

    they don't uh...move that fast? as in romulus would have had a lot of advance warning

    I assumed it was the Romulus star that was exploding... Wiki says a supernova can they can explode at 1/10th the speed of light. Sounds fast enough to me that I can believe the events as depicted, unless I've missed that it was some other random star.

    Did you read his post?

    You can handle scifi plot points better than they did, far better, without resorting to technobabble.

    Yes I read his post. His suggestion was to replace Red Matter with something more complicated. The point I was making that calling it Red Matter, Dark Matter, SuperPVA Matter, An Experimental Black Hole Device, A Quantum Emergency Ripcord Plot Detonator... it's all just as bullshit as what they wound up going with.

    Point taken that less nerds would have been upset if they'd thrown in a few qualifiers - A Super-supernova, or a Double-Quantum-Black Hole - but again, I don't see that the benefit of pacifying pedants outweighs the possibility of alienating the mainstream audience you're attempting to court.

    Why is it more complicated to call it a black hole device? Seems more straightforward to me. And yes, there is a difference between that and "red matter". With the former, you can just assume that scientists have somehow figured out how to make black holes without needing to know the specifics--red matter calls attention to itself as being, like I said, MAGIC!

    Fine, fine. Let's just call it a Chazzwozza and be done with it. *high-fives in the writers room*

    But seriously. You're right, I suppose it wouldn't be any more complicated to call it a black hole device, but if the purpose of calling it such is to prevent these kinds of conversations erupting, I'm not sure it would work. :P

    25 series of modern star trek have proven that using psuedo-scientific lingo to prop up blatantly unscientific plot devices doesn't do much to stop people complaining about them, much less endear your brand to new audiences. Actually, watching the new film I really felt quintessentially Trek words like 'compensating' and 'gravimetric' pop out of the movie like a sore thumb.

    desperaterobots on
  • Dely AppleDely Apple Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Thomamelas wrote: »

    You can check for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Zk2dX5DnW_c

    Somebody at Paramount got the brilliant idea of putting the whole series up on Youtube legally.

    Oh my god, I could kiss you. Only I won't. Maybe.

    Dely Apple on
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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I've seen a number of professional critics mention the red matter as being particularly 'science-magical', so I think subduing the silliness might indeed have calmed a little of that. It just kind of draws attention to itself as being a particularly plot device-y thing, with all the special effect shots and vaguely mystical awe. "Black hole machine" might not be any less of a plot device, but it is less obviously so; in a world with faster-than-light drives and transporters and such, it would fit right in.

    Individually, this is fairly trivial. In combination with all the other poorly handled science stuff, you come to a situation where the writers apparently either don't know how to do these things or don't care enough to bother.

    It's not that any of this makes it a bad movie, either. I loved it for a variety of other reasons. There was plenty of room for improvement, though, and in areas that would not have required much (if any) change to the rest of the script.

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  • GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Yeah, I've seen reviews that had some fun with the red ball of doom as well.

    It could have been any kind of doomsday machine, really. Black hole generator, some type of bomb, killer rabbit spawner, whatever. I kind of think a giant red ball works well as a very visual thing, especially with the syringes and such.

    Still a bit silly, but not really more so than any random generic gizmo of ultimate destruction.

    Grislo on
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  • edited May 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think you're overthinking what a random viewer would think. I think.

    The majority of the audience aren't likely to be Star Trek aficionados, or that technically minded, and would just as readily accept something called a black hole generator without going, 'wait a minute!'.

    It wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest, or anyone I watched the movie with.

    The red ball works because it's such an obvious visual thing, which, yes, ties into what you say about the effects. Silly in a way, but also a rather clever choice. All part of the non technobabble approach.

    Grislo on
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  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    New thread title should enlighten all as to the true nature of Red Matter.

    desperaterobots on
  • edited May 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Yeah, the science in TOS was always sketchy at best. Like the barrier surrounding the galaxy that prevented any ship from leaving it. I guess no one thought to go straight up or down to get over it.
    They were still doing that one in Voyager. Multiple times!

    "Captain, the ship is surrounded by a ring of energy that might destroy us if we go through."
    "Full speed ahead."
    "Are you sure? I mean, we could go up or down. It's just a ring, and we're a spaceship that can move in 3D..."
    "Shut the fuck up and fly us through that death trap already!"

    My personal favorite was, I believe, a TNG two-parter where they put a cloaking device-disabling roadblock in front of the Neutral Zone, which the Romulans were apparently powerless to go the fuck around it.
    I remember that episode. It's different. They had a huge Starfleet fleet building a cloak-disabling net all over the border, and with the war going on the supplies were needed so urgently that there was no time to go around. Besides, that was a minor plot-device to deal with a number of issues like racism (in the first officer refusing to obey an android captain) and obeying orders (in Data ignoring a direct order from Picard to reveal the Romulans) in a pretty good episode.

    Meanwhile, the Voyager episode episode I'm thinking about was "Twisted", which was only about the ship getting out of the ring. It dealth with no other issues, and had no other redeeming features.

    A fair point, my memory of that TNG story was hazy.

    I'm pretty sure one of the movies has just the opposite sort of thing going on where the crew is all "the guy that stole that ship is only flying on a two dimensional plane - aha, we will go under him and surprise him." I'm guessing there was some fancy nebula blocking sensors or something that made this not completely retarded.

    ...I don't know the Star Trek movies, but I think it was one with a Kahn in it (...or Khan).

    UltimaGecko on
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  • Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Yeah, the science in TOS was always sketchy at best. Like the barrier surrounding the galaxy that prevented any ship from leaving it. I guess no one thought to go straight up or down to get over it.
    They were still doing that one in Voyager. Multiple times!

    "Captain, the ship is surrounded by a ring of energy that might destroy us if we go through."
    "Full speed ahead."
    "Are you sure? I mean, we could go up or down. It's just a ring, and we're a spaceship that can move in 3D..."
    "Shut the fuck up and fly us through that death trap already!"

    My personal favorite was, I believe, a TNG two-parter where they put a cloaking device-disabling roadblock in front of the Neutral Zone, which the Romulans were apparently powerless to go the fuck around it.
    I remember that episode. It's different. They had a huge Starfleet fleet building a cloak-disabling net all over the border, and with the war going on the supplies were needed so urgently that there was no time to go around. Besides, that was a minor plot-device to deal with a number of issues like racism (in the first officer refusing to obey an android captain) and obeying orders (in Data ignoring a direct order from Picard to reveal the Romulans) in a pretty good episode.

    Meanwhile, the Voyager episode episode I'm thinking about was "Twisted", which was only about the ship getting out of the ring. It dealth with no other issues, and had no other redeeming features.

    A fair point, my memory of that TNG story was hazy.

    I'm pretty sure one of the movies has just the opposite sort of thing going on where the crew is all "the guy that stole that ship is only flying on a two dimensional plane - aha, we will go under him and surprise him." I'm guessing there was some fancy nebula blocking sensors or something that made this not completely retarded.

    ...I don't know the Star Trek movies, but I think it was one with a Kahn in it (...or Khan).

    Correct sir, this was The Wrath of Kahn, the second Trek movie, they were fighting in the Mutara Nebula which had disabled their shields and sensors, so they were fighting blind with the occasional flicker on the view screen showing where they were, Spock realizes that Kahn is thinking two-dimensionally and Kirk lowers the by a thousand meters and they just start looking up...

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited May 2009
    I loved that scene. It was like submarine warfare. In space!

    Bogart on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    evilbob wrote: »
    TOS type stuff happening in a TOS movie? Surely not!

    Perish the thought.

    JamesKeenan on
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm contemplating seeing this in the cinema for a third time. Am I stupid Y / N?

    Well, I saw it once...then my wife decided we should see it. And now she wants to see it a second time. So I'll probably be seeing it for a third time as well.

    necroSYS on
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dely Apple wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »

    You can check for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Zk2dX5DnW_c

    Somebody at Paramount got the brilliant idea of putting the whole series up on Youtube legally.

    Oh my god, I could kiss you. Only I won't. Maybe.


    Except they don't have Balance of Terror. D:

    Nightslyr on
  • truck-a-saurastruck-a-sauras Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    yes it should be a blanket ban until they discover warp technology and will start encountering and having to interact with other races. That is when you step in and lay down the rules for them on how to interact peacefully with these other races.

    like said before, it just doesn't make for good TV. I'd say it is a sound concept though if you base it on a "if this were real" scenario. All cultures should be left alone to their own devices good or bad. Even after warp tech is invented and first contact is made a culture has the right to stay xenophobes if they wish.

    The federation should really be nothing more than a giant galactic police force and science research crew. Keep all the space faring races in line and that is it.
    Wouldn't make for good TV? People guiding civilizations and dealing with the benefits and drawbacks of that wouldn't make for good TV? I can't believe you don't see how that compares to "On the one hand requiring the death penalty of one of my crew members for tripping into a garden is pretty retarded, on the other hand prime directive."

    And they certainly have plenty of right to be xenophobic. Starfleet should have just as much right to end genocide regardless of what the other species desires. Their police force really should extend on into prewarp civilizations on a case by case basis since they're already doing it when it becomes obvious a blanket ban isn't working for certain situations.

    The good for TV part think I could have clarified more. One person mentioned how they hated all the episodes of Voyager where they did not interfere of guide civilizations, just sat on the ship and were like oh our hands are tied and fretted about it then watch horrors unfold on said people and do nothing.

    not interfering is bad TV. interfering is what makes it interesting. The point was more that they should never ever interfere on principle as the prime directive is a good rule of thumb to go by (but that is boring to watch)

    truck-a-sauras on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Yeah, the science in TOS was always sketchy at best. Like the barrier surrounding the galaxy that prevented any ship from leaving it. I guess no one thought to go straight up or down to get over it.
    They were still doing that one in Voyager. Multiple times!

    "Captain, the ship is surrounded by a ring of energy that might destroy us if we go through."
    "Full speed ahead."
    "Are you sure? I mean, we could go up or down. It's just a ring, and we're a spaceship that can move in 3D..."
    "Shut the fuck up and fly us through that death trap already!"

    My personal favorite was, I believe, a TNG two-parter where they put a cloaking device-disabling roadblock in front of the Neutral Zone, which the Romulans were apparently powerless to go the fuck around it.
    I remember that episode. It's different. They had a huge Starfleet fleet building a cloak-disabling net all over the border, and with the war going on the supplies were needed so urgently that there was no time to go around. Besides, that was a minor plot-device to deal with a number of issues like racism (in the first officer refusing to obey an android captain) and obeying orders (in Data ignoring a direct order from Picard to reveal the Romulans) in a pretty good episode.

    Meanwhile, the Voyager episode episode I'm thinking about was "Twisted", which was only about the ship getting out of the ring. It dealth with no other issues, and had no other redeeming features.

    A fair point, my memory of that TNG story was hazy.

    I'm pretty sure one of the movies has just the opposite sort of thing going on where the crew is all "the guy that stole that ship is only flying on a two dimensional plane - aha, we will go under him and surprise him." I'm guessing there was some fancy nebula blocking sensors or something that made this not completely retarded.

    ...I don't know the Star Trek movies, but I think it was one with a Kahn in it (...or Khan).

    Correct sir, this was The Wrath of Kahn, the second Trek movie, they were fighting in the Mutara Nebula which had disabled their shields and sensors, so they were fighting blind with the occasional flicker on the view screen showing where they were, Spock realizes that Kahn is thinking two-dimensionally and Kirk lowers the by a thousand meters and they just start looking up...
    Also, Khan was from the 20th century and used to fighting campaigns on Earth, and he had never fought or been trained for space battles. So it made sense that he'd overlook that option.

    Richy on
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  • Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Yeah, the science in TOS was always sketchy at best. Like the barrier surrounding the galaxy that prevented any ship from leaving it. I guess no one thought to go straight up or down to get over it.
    They were still doing that one in Voyager. Multiple times!

    "Captain, the ship is surrounded by a ring of energy that might destroy us if we go through."
    "Full speed ahead."
    "Are you sure? I mean, we could go up or down. It's just a ring, and we're a spaceship that can move in 3D..."
    "Shut the fuck up and fly us through that death trap already!"

    My personal favorite was, I believe, a TNG two-parter where they put a cloaking device-disabling roadblock in front of the Neutral Zone, which the Romulans were apparently powerless to go the fuck around it.
    I remember that episode. It's different. They had a huge Starfleet fleet building a cloak-disabling net all over the border, and with the war going on the supplies were needed so urgently that there was no time to go around. Besides, that was a minor plot-device to deal with a number of issues like racism (in the first officer refusing to obey an android captain) and obeying orders (in Data ignoring a direct order from Picard to reveal the Romulans) in a pretty good episode.

    Meanwhile, the Voyager episode episode I'm thinking about was "Twisted", which was only about the ship getting out of the ring. It dealth with no other issues, and had no other redeeming features.

    A fair point, my memory of that TNG story was hazy.

    I'm pretty sure one of the movies has just the opposite sort of thing going on where the crew is all "the guy that stole that ship is only flying on a two dimensional plane - aha, we will go under him and surprise him." I'm guessing there was some fancy nebula blocking sensors or something that made this not completely retarded.

    ...I don't know the Star Trek movies, but I think it was one with a Kahn in it (...or Khan).

    Correct sir, this was The Wrath of Kahn, the second Trek movie, they were fighting in the Mutara Nebula which had disabled their shields and sensors, so they were fighting blind with the occasional flicker on the view screen showing where they were, Spock realizes that Kahn is thinking two-dimensionally and Kirk lowers the by a thousand meters and they just start looking up...
    Also, Khan was from the 20th century and used to fighting campaigns on Earth, and he had never fought or been trained for space battles. So it made sense that he'd overlook that option.

    I thought about mentioning that, but chose not to...

    Also, has anyone thought that perhaps another idea behind using Red Matter is to convey that not only can it be used to create a black hole, but rather also that not the hole would go away after a bit? You know, once the matter is consumed...

    In theory a black hole generator would, you know, generate one permanently, where as red matter would be like gasoline, once it's consumed the fire burns out and dies...

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Black hole generators are silly. Black holes aren't things that you can just make. They're exceptionally dense chunks of mass/energy. The only way to make a black hole would be to either force matter into a very, very small space at the expense of a tremendous amount of energy (what happens when stars turn into black holes, during cosmic ray impacts in the upper Earth atmosphere, and in the bowels of the LHC) or to introduce some kind of crazy artificial graviton source that sucks things toward it with the same energy as a black hole until there's enough mass there to self-sustain the field. That's what the physicist in the back of my head came up with for Red Matter while I pointedly ignored his grumblings throughout the film. Red Matter is some kind of unstable material that, when excited or introduced to normal matter or gravity or photons or trans-warp-pseudo-particulate-energy-raditons or whatever, converts its mass into a burst of gravitons.

    Near the end of the movie, when the red matter ball explodes, all the little globules start pumping out gravitons that suck in the other little balls. The rate of graviton production increases exponentially with volume and, after a few droplets merge, you get light-sucking graviton-spawners of doom. Eventually, presumably, the red matter would exhaust its mass and stop producing gravitons. At that point you'd have a big ball of mass/energy in space which may or may not be able to hold itself together. So you'd either get a permanent black hole, a star of some variety, or a big explosion.

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  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    Yes, calling it a "black hole device" is the worst idea. You might as well call it a plot hole device and take care of what your audience is already thinking.

    necroSYS on
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    Black hole generators are silly. Black holes aren't things that you can just make. They're exceptionally dense chunks of mass/energy. The only way to make a black hole would be to either force matter into a very, very small space at the expense of a tremendous amount of energy (what happens when stars turn into black holes, during cosmic ray impacts in the upper Earth atmosphere, and in the bowels of the LHC) or to introduce some kind of crazy artificial graviton source that sucks things toward it with the same energy as a black hole until there's enough mass there to self-sustain the field. That's what the physicist in the back of my head came up with for Red Matter while I pointedly ignored his grumblings throughout the film. Red Matter is some kind of unstable material that, when excited or introduced to normal matter or gravity or photons or trans-warp-pseudo-particulate-energy-raditons or whatever, converts its mass into a burst of gravitons.

    Near the end of the movie, when the red matter ball explodes, all the little globules start pumping out gravitons that suck in the other little balls. The rate of graviton production increases exponentially with volume and, after a few droplets merge, you get light-sucking graviton-spawners of doom. Eventually, presumably, the red matter would exhaust its mass and stop producing gravitons. At that point you'd have a big ball of mass/energy in space which may or may not be able to hold itself together. So you'd either get a permanent black hole, a star of some variety, or a big explosion.


    This is a cool post, by the way. I didn't know enough physics to explain why, once the red matter formed the black hole, it wouldn't just stick around indefinitely. But you've addressed that nicely with this post.

    necroSYS on
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.


    I thought so too.

    Then I realized they can make a toy out of it and that's almost certianly why they made it.

    I'll buy it of course but still.

    King Riptor on
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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    necroSYS wrote: »
    Yes, calling it a "black hole device" is the worst idea. You might as well call it a plot hole device and take care of what your audience is already thinking.

    Yeah, the best thing they could have done would be to have had a briefing on the Enterprise (or a talk with Nero) about it. First, give a brief presentation saying that Nero is building a device capable of creating a black hole using red matter, a matter that produces gravitons. Second, explain away a crew rivalry from the show by having one member of the rivalry ask why it's called red matter, at which point the other rival would look at the rival, look at the picture of the giant red thing of doom, look at the rival again, and look at the giant red thing of doom one last time before giving the rival shit about the question for the rest of the movie. Third, have someone ask how red matter works, only to be answered by Spock or McCoy telling him/her that (s)he wouldn't understand it anyway.


    Actually, that might be another problem with Janeway,who had origins in engineering. With a captain capable of understanding the complexity of what they were doing, the rest of the crew wouldn't have to use a general explanation and a crude metaphor, but could jump straight to the detailed explanation for a phenomena or strategy the writers only had a crude understanding of.

    Also, I've seen Enterprise lately, and did anyone else notice that the wqriters kept playing the War on Terror over and over again instead of finding a new metaphor? The Xindi were generic middle east being manipulated by radical clerics (unless they were America being manipulated by republican fearmongering), and the Vulcan arc was so Iraq at the end it hurt.

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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.


    I thought so too.

    Then I realized they can make a toy out of it and that's almost certianly why they made it.

    I'll buy it of course but still.

    I've checked pictures (still haven't seen the movie), and I'm very glad to find it was more of a sabre. The writers of TOS deliberately avoided a katana so they wouldn't make the whole thing stereotypical (besides the fact that the whole thing wouldn't have looked as good with the full body motion of a katana, most likely), and it would have been insulting to redact that.

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  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Also, I've seen Enterprise lately, and did anyone else notice

    No, that would have required that I watch Enterprise.

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  • Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Bloods End wrote: »

    Just noticed this on Gizmodo or IO9...

    I actually realized the parallels between the two of these very early on... Honestly I was going to do what they basically did, but on a much more grand scale, just didn't get the time...

    I've noticed a crap load of Kahn and New Hope in the movie, so I was going to rip the audio tracks from both and impose them over the movie itself, thus creating theoretical hilarity when a person watches Star Trek with audio from the other movies... More Star Wars...

    Granted, I pictured Obi Wan as moreof Spock than Pike, but Pike makes more sense...

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.


    I thought so too.

    Then I realized they can make a toy out of it and that's almost certianly why they made it.

    I'll buy it of course but still.

    I've checked pictures (still haven't seen the movie), and I'm very glad to find it was more of a sabre. The writers of TOS deliberately avoided a katana so they wouldn't make the whole thing stereotypical (besides the fact that the whole thing wouldn't have looked as good with the full body motion of a katana, most likely), and it would have been insulting to redact that.


    You could generically call it a Katana but it's far to wide and thick and definitely not long enough.

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  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.


    I thought so too.

    Then I realized they can make a toy out of it and that's almost certianly why they made it.

    I'll buy it of course but still.

    I've checked pictures (still haven't seen the movie), and I'm very glad to find it was more of a sabre. The writers of TOS deliberately avoided a katana so they wouldn't make the whole thing stereotypical (besides the fact that the whole thing wouldn't have looked as good with the full body motion of a katana, most likely), and it would have been insulting to redact that.


    You could generically call it a Katana but it's far to wide and thick and definitely not long enough.

    My question is why wasn't it a sabre or epee since his training was in fencing? If there's anything I've learned from various rpg character sheets is that you have categories for piercing vs. slashing weapons.
    kidding, kidding

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Sulu's transformer katana was easily the thing I squee'd the most at in that movie.

    I think every movie needs to have that in it.
    Sulu with a katana could've been the dumbest thing ever.


    Yet, it was awesome.


    I thought so too.

    Then I realized they can make a toy out of it and that's almost certianly why they made it.

    I'll buy it of course but still.

    I've checked pictures (still haven't seen the movie), and I'm very glad to find it was more of a sabre. The writers of TOS deliberately avoided a katana so they wouldn't make the whole thing stereotypical (besides the fact that the whole thing wouldn't have looked as good with the full body motion of a katana, most likely), and it would have been insulting to redact that.


    You could generically call it a Katana but it's far to wide and thick and definitely not long enough.

    My question is why wasn't it a sabre or epee since his training was in fencing? If there's anything I've learned from various rpg character sheets is that you have categories for piercing vs. slashing weapons.
    kidding, kidding


    Sulu get's a +5 modifier when using bladed weapons and a +20 when his shirt is off.

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  • XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    All this talk about black holes - what did people think of the Romulan Warbirds in TNG being powered by a micro-singularity to drive their warp core? ;)

    Also:

    Spoilered due to large image size
    e-vs-bsg.jpg

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