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American Healthcare: Terminal Freedoms
Speaker
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Obama and the House Democrats have agreed to have a healthcare reform bill done by July 31st. So this is it, this is happening.
We've had threads on healthcare in the past. This one will be different, because our discussion here will parallel discussions by lawmakers determined to act in the next two months. Accordingly, we will be capable of excercising our rights as citizens to lobby our representatives and be part of the public debate.
So everyone bring your A game to this thread. The question is complicated, and I'm sure there isn't one of us who isn't uninformed/misinformed on some part of it. I'm certainly very vague on the details. But this is one of those moments where something more than routine news watching is demanded of us as citizens, because the ramifications of the policy will be very big and very deep and effect us all.
Obama to Announce Health Care Reform Deal
We've had threads on healthcare in the past. This one will be different, because our discussion here will parallel discussions by lawmakers determined to act in the next two months. Accordingly, we will be capable of excercising our rights as citizens to lobby our representatives and be part of the public debate.
So everyone bring your A game to this thread. The question is complicated, and I'm sure there isn't one of us who isn't uninformed/misinformed on some part of it. I'm certainly very vague on the details. But this is one of those moments where something more than routine news watching is demanded of us as citizens, because the ramifications of the policy will be very big and very deep and effect us all.
Obama to Announce Health Care Reform Deal
WASHINGTON -- President Obama will announce Wednesday morning that House Democrats have pledged to pass a health care reform bill by July 31 -- a vow the White House believes will advance its goal of seeing health care legislation signed into law by year's end.
Obama will make the announcement after a scheduled meeting with Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Hoyer, and Reps. Charlie Rangel, Henry Waxman and George Miller. All are top legislative players on health care and will stand with the president to symbolize their commitment to moving a bill before Congress leaves Washington for the August recess.
The announcement will not describe the contents of the health care bill -- leaving key questions about funding, coverage and access for another day. The Obama strategy is to stay above the legislative fray, keeping the process moving forward and the industry players in the mix until the tough legislative choices are made this summer and fall. But this public commitment on timing, the White House believes, will help solidify legislative process that will produce a bill and bring the nation closer than ever before to the Democrats' long-sought goal of universal health coverage.
House action by July 31 will set the stage for Senate action in September and October. Top White House advisers then envision completion of a conference committee merging the House and Senate bills before Congress adjourns for the year -- allowing Obama to sign the historic legislation, which many Republicans critics could set the stage for "socialized" or "nationalized" health care, some time in November or December.
Senior White House officials regard this week as something of a breakthrough on health care, starting with Monday's non-specific and unenforceable commitment from doctors, hospitals, insurers and drug companies to reduce health care costs by $2 trillion over 10 years. Though this vague pledge has since drawn skepticism, top Obama advisers say it changes the political dynamic by depriving Republican critics of the grassroots and fundraising clout that would be theirs if doctors, hospital, insurers and drug makers refused to cooperate with the White House -- as they appear to be now.
"It's hard to talk about socialized medicine when the hospitals, doctors, insurers, the private sector players are working with us at the White House," a top White House official said.
With Tuesday's event highlighting private sector efforts to promote wellness, the White House continued its bid to reinforce the role industry can play in health care reform. The frame for the week is designed to calm fears about a government takeover of health care and Wednesday's schedule announcement will cap Obama's three-day focus on health care.
These developments will also be fodder for Obama's road trip to Arizona and New Mexico later today and tomorrow. The White House delights in taking Washington-based actions on the road and is particularly eager to tout what they regard as Obama's unique ability to change the tone and politics of health care reform.
In truth, the main health care players see Obama and his Democratic allies have the votes necessary to pass health care in the House and Senate and have joined the White House effort to preserve their negotiating clout as the bill moves through the process.
"They made a business decision," a top White House adviser said of the industry moves this week -- reinforced by a letter sent to Obama Tuesday promising to specify cost-saving moves in the near future.
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What is the opposition to universal health care? Is it the cost to the government? Fear of change? Is it going to mean doctors can't opt in or out of it? I know the population of america is BOOM way above australia, and this is probably a big factor in terms of gosh wow thats a heck of a starting and maintenance cost. I was just wondering if there was anything more?
As an example, here there is medicare which allows for bulk billed (government paid for) GP appointments with doctors who choose to use it, as well as rebates (a percentage of the bill is repaid to you by the government, not sure what it is. it may be dependent on the service) and partly subsidied medicines (for example my regular adhd meds are 5 bucks instead of 25 since they're covered)
It doesn't cover everything under the sun, for example optional stuff (eg, almost every other possible medication for adhd isn't covered under this system so I'm stuck with dexies), but I can get my glasses replaced every two years for free, for example. (shitty selection of 1980's nerd frames, but I can).
So it's a kind of base level blanket that isn't super duper awesome like the insurance companies that also operate here who do it all a lot better, cover more, give bonuses, guarantee faster appointments etc etc, but is something available to every citizen so that at the very least basic health care is available, even if you may have to wait for hours sometimes.
Although, for some reason, dentistry is hard to find on this system nowadays. I think it's classified as a luxury.
If each person paid into it like we do now with commercial health care, it'd be fine. The problem, in my eyes, is that companies are playing games with people's healths and you can't have the health of a nation compete with the bottom line.
Seriously that's pretty much it. That, and people freak out over waiting lists when there's a large portion of the country not receiving medical care at all.
Finger pointing and the word socialism (the new communism).
Seriously, every time someone brings up Healthcare there's always someoone in the crowd screaming "I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR SOME HIPPIE MEDICAL BILL!"
edit:
TRI TRI TRI TRI TRIPLE KILL ILL ILL ILL!
Nice to know that we all know what the problem is.
I'd rather wait in line a month or two than worry about having to pay a $6000 deductible to get some xrays or MRIs or something.
Universal Health Care is portrayed in the States as a monolithic system where the government makes all the decisions about your health. Guys in my office say that it means long lines like at the DMV, or that you'd be refused things because some bureaucrat rabble rabble. Also the idea of people not working but still getting the benefits puts certain people into fits.
edit: also socialists
What people don't understand is that a more complete and all-encompassing health care system means we can take care of issues before they become more expensive problems and before they spread.
There'd be more incentive to actually have more people working. Like, oh I don't know, the handfuls of people on disability that are only on disability because they have an expensive condition (*cough*kidney failure and dialysis*cough*) and can't afford to not be on medicaide/medicare because it'd simply bankrupt them after a day.
Word, because private insurance companies never deny services. Ever. Or, wait... yeah they do. And quite often.
Yes, but since it is a free-market it is good because we believe in the free-market system you see.
The invisible hand of the free market is fisting your asshole, guys.
Basically.
Once it's in and the socialist doomsday fails to happen everybody is going to be all "man what were we worried about". Well good luck to Obama then because it's about time. I worry about you guys.
I don't think so. I know people who insist that it's still only a matter of time before Obama personally shows up at our collective doorstep and takes our guns.
At worst, people think these things just have yet to manifest. At best, they forget they ever worried in the first place.
No. Because dipshits will scrutinize every single fault in the system like it's a herpes scar on a hooker.
It'll come in, people will get free doctor appointments, doomsday will consistently fail to happen, and after a while it'll just blow over except for the crazies.
Habituation is a wonderful thing.
I don't know how doctors etc who aren't on medicare are paid here.
It could not be any worse than the current costs and lack of benefits.
The only thing that'll probably be hurt is the salaries of doctors, and even then, I doubt that much at all.
It's not like I don't have to wait 5 weeks to make a god damned doctors appointment anyways. No I'm not going to have the flu still in 6 weeks, but I want to make sure it's not some flesh eating fungus eating my lungs too you fuckheads.
They become the thing for rich people to get healthcare much more quickly. But they pay out the ass for it.
They'll have to get real jobs.
Oh, I'm saying the cost of the program to the federal and state budgets is going to be the problem, not necessarily to the consumer.
They'll still be around. And probably obliged to provide a far better level of service because they'll have to be significantly better than what you're getting for free for people to want to use them. They'll be more of a luxury.
And those doctors can educate them while they're at appointments. eg "stop panicking you git its nuffin"
Except a huge swath of your population can get the care they need instead of playing roulette and smashing themselves into debt because they needed a cast or some sutures.
While I'm sure an argument could be that people get what they pay for (when you pay a lot of health insurance, you're getting the BEST doctors!) I'm sure there are lots of cases where people are being overcharged for mediocre healthcare service. This reform could prevent that nonsense. This is a benefit.
I'm sure people like to argue about how they want to be able to spend money how they want. I think an answer to that would be to somehow provide some optional payment for those who really want to needlessly spend money. Without it being needless, that is.
And as for the people who like to shout about not wanting to pay for Bob's hospital bill... You share is small, shut up. We'll deal with the illegals taking advantage of things soon after.
Ie stop this.
You have good hospitals sure, but your coverage and care fucking sucks no matter which way you want to slice it.
They'd probably sell supplement plans, sort of like AARP does with Medicare.
Yeah, I can see why matthasaproblem would take it the way he's arguing against, but I actually was referring to what Demiurge is saying here.
Also, what happens to all the hospitals?
How does it work in the US now? In the UK, all the NHS hospitals were built by the government (ok, the new ones were built via PPPs) so basically owned and/or inhabited by the NHS already. Presumably in the US all/most of the hospitals were built with private money and are run as private companies? They aren't going to just build a whole bunch of new hospitals presumably, so how does the government step in and take all that over? Will they form some sort of after-the-fact PPPs where the original owners charge rent to the government or will the government in fact not actually take over the private hospitals but just take over the role of health insurance and the hospitals will continue to run as private ventures funded by a national insurance?
I know that primary care physicians are difficult to find open time with and on top of that specialists take at least 30 days in advanced to get one appointment with. A national healthcare system would only increase wait times and put a spotlight on the shortages we have of healthcare workers. Not enough doctors and not enough nurses as it is.
So the answer would be to train more people. Well we do train a lot, it's just that 1 in 5 nurses quit after their first year (if someone would like citation I can dig it ups somewhere). Healthcare is an extremely stressful field. On top of that medicare pays less than private insurers. If a national healthcare system is similar I'm pretty sure less people will go after being a doctor or nurse if income goes down. The government thinks "let's cut costs" and look at their medicare/medicaid bill and see it as a quick way to lower the deficit. But there are greater costs than that.
So what would make sense would be to pay healthcare workers more and make it worth it and maybe attract more people to the field so 1/3 of physicians don't work over 60 hours a week. Well we only have 146 medical schools and admission is competitive in all of them. I know nursing schools in my area are turning a lot of people away.
I think the government healthcare plan, in order to be successful, has to pay healthcare workers more in order to get more people into the field and keep people in. Give medical schools more funding or help open new ones. This doesn't sound consistent with the "cut costs" tune obama is singing.
Don't get me wrong. I want national healthcare. But I don't want the healthcare system to deteriorate.