Let's face it, though - there are many gamers who mistake quantity for quality. As soon as a game has *lots* of story, they believe it's a pinnacle of storytelling.
There's a whole crowd of 'jrpg with more than 50 hours of playtime = epic story, yo' people out there, and they scare me a little.
It seems they just don't take writing quality as a variable.
I used to wish for a very long RPG when I was teenager, but I never really thought about the quality of the writing involved. I didn't take into account how difficult it would be to keep a story interesting for that period of time.
It must be tough, because many games fail at doing a truly good job of it.
Come on down, Baldur's Gate series. Of course, progressively revealing that
the PC is a living god
will do that. Spoiler'd because anyone who hasn't played BG 1 and BG 2 and the expansions needs to get the fuck off the internet and live a piece of gaming history.
Let's face it, though - there are many gamers who mistake quantity for quality. As soon as a game has *lots* of story, they believe it's a pinnacle of storytelling.
There's a whole crowd of 'jrpg with more than 50 hours of playtime = epic story, yo' people out there, and they scare me a little.
It seems they just don't take writing quality as a variable.
I used to wish for a very long RPG when I was teenager, but I never really thought about the quality of the writing involved. I didn't take into account how difficult it would be to keep a story interesting for that period of time.
It must be tough, because many games fail at doing a truly good job of it.
Come on down, Baldur's Gate series. Of course, progressively revealing that
the PC is a living god
will do that. Spoiler'd because anyone who hasn't played BG 1 and BG 2 and the expansions needs to get the fuck off the internet and live a piece of gaming history.
You're not a living god, you are the mortal child of Bhaal, Lord of Murder and God of Death, born for the sole purpose to die along with your countless half-siblings, so your essences would revive dear old dad.
...and I'm not spoilering it, because you were told this during the synopsis at the begining of BG2, the one of the two you REALLY need to play!
This has nothing to do with the game named Deus Ex, but I it could be related :P
A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪəs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I've always loved the 90's Batman animated series, but one thing I always hated were half the episodes with Robin in them. As always, Batman would kick some ass, overcome the odds and such, but whenever he was faced with a deadly situation he would get out of it. The exceptions were when Robin was in the episode and Batman was literally seconds from death before Robin busted in at the exact right moment and saved Batsy. I'm talking about, if Robin wasn't there, Batman would of been killed ouright by a bullet in the brain or another horrible death.
That's an example of a Deus Ex Machina, a moment in a story where the character is saved by a completley random, co-incidental or improbable means and these happen all the times in gaming. The most blatantly obvious, horrible one I witnessed recentley was Metal Gear Solid 4 fairly near the end of the game
An already decrepid Snake has just crawled through a hallway of microwave energy emitters, basically cooking him to death as you frantically mash the button to help him crawl inch by inch to the exit. After this 50 second long sequence, Snake finally exits the hallway, near enough dead as about 10 goons advance on him, all armed with heavy weaponry as they patientley let Otacon give Snake a pep talk. At any point they could of simply shot snake, but when they finally decide to do end this, that very second, an armless ninja Raiden with a sword in his teeth busts in and saves Snake.
Anyone have any good examples as blantly obvious Deus Ex Machina gaming moments that were head slappingly poorly executed?
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
The ending of Beyond Good and Evil. Worst ending EVER.
It is revealed in the last 5 minutes that the main character can heal people with her hands, is actually an energy source stolen from the alien bad guys 300 years ago, isn't actually human and just looks like it, can fly, glows green and saves the day. YEAH. And then they go ONE FURTHER and do a HUGE DICK MOVE cliffhanger just AFTER the credit sequence. NUL POINTS UBISOFT
So I haven't played BG&E in awhile but I thought that was decently foreshadowed. I mean, don't the Domz call her Shaw'ni or whatever at some point prior to the very end? Plus her lips are GREEN THE COLOR OF DOMZ DUN DUN DUN. Ok, maybe I'm reaching a bit. I agree that the cliffhanger was super lame.
Let's face it, though - there are many gamers who mistake quantity for quality. As soon as a game has *lots* of story, they believe it's a pinnacle of storytelling.
There's a whole crowd of 'jrpg with more than 50 hours of playtime = epic story, yo' people out there, and they scare me a little.
It seems they just don't take writing quality as a variable.
I used to wish for a very long RPG when I was teenager, but I never really thought about the quality of the writing involved. I didn't take into account how difficult it would be to keep a story interesting for that period of time.
It must be tough, because many games fail at doing a truly good job of it.
Come on down, Baldur's Gate series. Of course, progressively revealing that
the PC is a living god
will do that. Spoiler'd because anyone who hasn't played BG 1 and BG 2 and the expansions needs to get the fuck off the internet and live a piece of gaming history.
You're not a living god, you are the mortal child of Bhaal, Lord of Murder and God of Death, born for the sole purpose to die along with your countless half-siblings, so your essences would revive dear old dad.
...and I'm not spoilering it, because you were told this during the synopsis at the begining of BG2, the one of the two you REALLY need to play!
During SoA yes you're told that you were born to die for dear papa, but during ToB you reject that destiny and become a good/evil god, surpassing the legacy of Bhaal (or puss out and become mortal but honestly who chose that)
Plus the ending of ToB where you got a long detailed description of what everyone did after the final battle was the fucking pimp. Also, space hampsters.
Phantasy Star IV actually sticks out in my mind for this.
Alys gets killed in a cut-scene, but at least the rest of your team are smart enough to try to use some healing spells and items on her.
It's the only time I've seen a game use a plot death, yet still acknowledge that normally characters walk happily away from being maimed.
It happens in final fantasy five, too. It's actually justified pretty well in-game; the character in question goes into a battle, their HP reaches zero and they just keep on going (much to the amazement of the antagonist) until they finally finish the bad guy off. So you're basically supposed to think that they kept on fighting well past their body's breaking point and as a result they can't be revived by any in-game methods (which only work on things like unconsciousness or minor injuries).
Let's face it, though - there are many gamers who mistake quantity for quality. As soon as a game has *lots* of story, they believe it's a pinnacle of storytelling.
There's a whole crowd of 'jrpg with more than 50 hours of playtime = epic story, yo' people out there, and they scare me a little.
It seems they just don't take writing quality as a variable.
I used to wish for a very long RPG when I was teenager, but I never really thought about the quality of the writing involved. I didn't take into account how difficult it would be to keep a story interesting for that period of time.
It must be tough, because many games fail at doing a truly good job of it.
Come on down, Baldur's Gate series. Of course, progressively revealing that
the PC is a living god
will do that. Spoiler'd because anyone who hasn't played BG 1 and BG 2 and the expansions needs to get the fuck off the internet and live a piece of gaming history.
You're not a living god, you are the mortal child of Bhaal, Lord of Murder and God of Death, born for the sole purpose to die along with your countless half-siblings, so your essences would revive dear old dad.
...and I'm not spoilering it, because you were told this during the synopsis at the begining of BG2, the one of the two you REALLY need to play!
During SoA yes you're told that you were born to die for dear papa, but during ToB you reject that destiny and become a good/evil god, surpassing the legacy of Bhaal (or puss out and become mortal but honestly who chose that)
Plus the ending of ToB where you got a long detailed description of what everyone did after the final battle was the fucking pimp. Also, space hampsters.
This has nothing to do with the game named Deus Ex, but I it could be related :P
A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪəs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I've always loved the 90's Batman animated series, but one thing I always hated were half the episodes with Robin in them. As always, Batman would kick some ass, overcome the odds and such, but whenever he was faced with a deadly situation he would get out of it. The exceptions were when Robin was in the episode and Batman was literally seconds from death before Robin busted in at the exact right moment and saved Batsy. I'm talking about, if Robin wasn't there, Batman would of been killed ouright by a bullet in the brain or another horrible death.
That's an example of a Deus Ex Machina, a moment in a story where the character is saved by a completley random, co-incidental or improbable means and these happen all the times in gaming. The most blatantly obvious, horrible one I witnessed recentley was Metal Gear Solid 4 fairly near the end of the game
An already decrepid Snake has just crawled through a hallway of microwave energy emitters, basically cooking him to death as you frantically mash the button to help him crawl inch by inch to the exit. After this 50 second long sequence, Snake finally exits the hallway, near enough dead as about 10 goons advance on him, all armed with heavy weaponry as they patientley let Otacon give Snake a pep talk. At any point they could of simply shot snake, but when they finally decide to do end this, that very second, an armless ninja Raiden with a sword in his teeth busts in and saves Snake.
Anyone have any good examples as blantly obvious Deus Ex Machina gaming moments that were head slappingly poorly executed?
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
And again, as I said on the last page but it got passed over somehow, raiden came in before the hallway. People can bitch about mgs all they want, but they should at least get the facts straight first.
Or really any time someone dies from a single gunshot when during gameplay they probably get shot over 100 times in a minute.
Persona 3 has the worst example of this, in which the guy who've just called down the elements upon and beaten into submission with swords, guns and bows, then pulls a fucking revolver in a cut scene and everybody shits themselves.
The worst thing about that scene is that one of your party is a BLOODY BULLET PROOF BATTLE ANDROID WITH MACHINE GUN ARMS!
This has nothing to do with the game named Deus Ex, but I it could be related :P
A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪəs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I've always loved the 90's Batman animated series, but one thing I always hated were half the episodes with Robin in them. As always, Batman would kick some ass, overcome the odds and such, but whenever he was faced with a deadly situation he would get out of it. The exceptions were when Robin was in the episode and Batman was literally seconds from death before Robin busted in at the exact right moment and saved Batsy. I'm talking about, if Robin wasn't there, Batman would of been killed ouright by a bullet in the brain or another horrible death.
That's an example of a Deus Ex Machina, a moment in a story where the character is saved by a completley random, co-incidental or improbable means and these happen all the times in gaming. The most blatantly obvious, horrible one I witnessed recentley was Metal Gear Solid 4 fairly near the end of the game
An already decrepid Snake has just crawled through a hallway of microwave energy emitters, basically cooking him to death as you frantically mash the button to help him crawl inch by inch to the exit. After this 50 second long sequence, Snake finally exits the hallway, near enough dead as about 10 goons advance on him, all armed with heavy weaponry as they patientley let Otacon give Snake a pep talk. At any point they could of simply shot snake, but when they finally decide to do end this, that very second, an armless ninja Raiden with a sword in his teeth busts in and saves Snake.
Anyone have any good examples as blantly obvious Deus Ex Machina gaming moments that were head slappingly poorly executed?
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
If Raiden can take out a room full of cyborgs soldiers with SMG's without using his arms after being crushed under a giant Mount Snakemore boat and going through the microwave corridor what the hell was Snake there for?!
Vaguely similar to a deus ex machina in video games is the fact that many characters are hardly ever subject to the same rules in a cinematic scene as they are during gameplay.
What's this? She just irrevocably got killed from being stabbed by a sword? I could have sworn that 20 minutes ago massive shards of ice had crashed down on her and I just brought her back with an item.
Or really any time someone dies from a single gunshot when during gameplay they probably get shot over 100 times in a minute.
Gah, this sort of thing can drive me nuts sometimes! The worst example I can think of was in Final Fantasy X. I'd just fought my way into Yuna's shotgun wedding, through many battles with gun totting guards, then in the cut scene two of the exact same guards point their guns at the party and they surrender.
The thing that gets to me is that this scene could have made sense with a little more work! All they needed to do was throw in a ton of these guards. Have the doors open and a whole regiment storm in. There's no shame in the heroes surrendering with two dozen guns pointed at them. But two?! And they're standing close enough for the heroes to knock them out. I've seen realistic crime dramas with no fantasy elements at all where the hero fights back and overcomes those odds.
Phantasy Star IV actually sticks out in my mind for this.
Alys gets killed in a cut-scene, but at least the rest of your team are smart enough to try to use some healing spells and items on her.
It's the only time I've seen a game use a plot death, yet still acknowledge that normally characters walk happily away from being maimed.
It happens in final fantasy five, too. It's actually justified pretty well in-game; the character in question goes into a battle, their HP reaches zero and they just keep on going (much to the amazement of the antagonist) until they finally finish the bad guy off. So you're basically supposed to think that they kept on fighting well past their body's breaking point and as a result they can't be revived by any in-game methods (which only work on things like unconsciousness or minor injuries).
Forgetting about this is a sign that I need to play FFV again. The way the character's skills get transferred might count as a Deux Ex Machina, thinking about it.
This has nothing to do with the game named Deus Ex, but I it could be related :P
A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪəs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I've always loved the 90's Batman animated series, but one thing I always hated were half the episodes with Robin in them. As always, Batman would kick some ass, overcome the odds and such, but whenever he was faced with a deadly situation he would get out of it. The exceptions were when Robin was in the episode and Batman was literally seconds from death before Robin busted in at the exact right moment and saved Batsy. I'm talking about, if Robin wasn't there, Batman would of been killed ouright by a bullet in the brain or another horrible death.
That's an example of a Deus Ex Machina, a moment in a story where the character is saved by a completley random, co-incidental or improbable means and these happen all the times in gaming. The most blatantly obvious, horrible one I witnessed recentley was Metal Gear Solid 4 fairly near the end of the game
An already decrepid Snake has just crawled through a hallway of microwave energy emitters, basically cooking him to death as you frantically mash the button to help him crawl inch by inch to the exit. After this 50 second long sequence, Snake finally exits the hallway, near enough dead as about 10 goons advance on him, all armed with heavy weaponry as they patientley let Otacon give Snake a pep talk. At any point they could of simply shot snake, but when they finally decide to do end this, that very second, an armless ninja Raiden with a sword in his teeth busts in and saves Snake.
Anyone have any good examples as blantly obvious Deus Ex Machina gaming moments that were head slappingly poorly executed?
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
If Raiden can take out a room full of cyborgs soldiers with SMG's without using his arms after being crushed under a giant Mount Snakemore boat and going through the microwave corridor what the hell was Snake there for?!
If you paid any attention at all during that cut scene, Raiden, Meryl, Johnny, and Mei-Ling were all ABOUT TO GODDAMN DIE a few moments before Snake uploaded the Virus. Raiden was on the ground with his sword knocked out of his mouth about to be run through by thirty or so FROGs, Meryl and Johnny were shot and about to be executed, Mei Ling was about to get sliced in half by a RAY unit. They were COVERING Snake to give him time to sabotage the computer system, HE DID. The Frogs then went crazy and shut down, saving the lives of Snake's friends.
This has nothing to do with the game named Deus Ex, but I it could be related :P
A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪəs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I've always loved the 90's Batman animated series, but one thing I always hated were half the episodes with Robin in them. As always, Batman would kick some ass, overcome the odds and such, but whenever he was faced with a deadly situation he would get out of it. The exceptions were when Robin was in the episode and Batman was literally seconds from death before Robin busted in at the exact right moment and saved Batsy. I'm talking about, if Robin wasn't there, Batman would of been killed ouright by a bullet in the brain or another horrible death.
That's an example of a Deus Ex Machina, a moment in a story where the character is saved by a completley random, co-incidental or improbable means and these happen all the times in gaming. The most blatantly obvious, horrible one I witnessed recentley was Metal Gear Solid 4 fairly near the end of the game
An already decrepid Snake has just crawled through a hallway of microwave energy emitters, basically cooking him to death as you frantically mash the button to help him crawl inch by inch to the exit. After this 50 second long sequence, Snake finally exits the hallway, near enough dead as about 10 goons advance on him, all armed with heavy weaponry as they patientley let Otacon give Snake a pep talk. At any point they could of simply shot snake, but when they finally decide to do end this, that very second, an armless ninja Raiden with a sword in his teeth busts in and saves Snake.
Anyone have any good examples as blantly obvious Deus Ex Machina gaming moments that were head slappingly poorly executed?
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
If Raiden can take out a room full of cyborgs soldiers with SMG's without using his arms after being crushed under a giant Mount Snakemore boat and going through the microwave corridorwhat the hell was Snake there for?!
If you paid any attention at all during that cut scene, Raiden, Meryl, Johnny, and Mei-Ling were all ABOUT TO GODDAMN DIE a few moments before Snake uploaded the Virus. Raiden was on the ground with his sword knocked out of his mouth about to be run through by thirty or so FROGs, Meryl and Johnny were shot and about to be executed, Mei Ling was about to get sliced in half by a RAY unit. They were COVERING Snake to give him time to sabotage the computer system, HE DID. The Frogs then went crazy and shut down, saving the lives of Snake's friends.
Jesus fucking christ, for the final time raiden shows up BEFORE snake goes through the corridor. The OP was mistaken. I've said it twice already. Does no one read the fucking thread?
Vaguely similar to a deus ex machina in video games is the fact that many characters are hardly ever subject to the same rules in a cinematic scene as they are during gameplay.
What's this? She just irrevocably got killed from being stabbed by a sword? I could have sworn that 20 minutes ago massive shards of ice had crashed down on her and I just brought her back with an item.
Or really any time someone dies from a single gunshot when during gameplay they probably get shot over 100 times in a minute.
Gah, this sort of thing can drive me nuts sometimes! The worst example I can think of was in Final Fantasy X. I'd just fought my way into Yuna's shotgun wedding, through many battles with gun totting guards, then in the cut scene two of the exact same guards point their guns at the party and they surrender.
The thing that gets to me is that this scene could have made sense with a little more work! All they needed to do was throw in a ton of these guards. Have the doors open and a whole regiment storm in. There's no shame in the heroes surrendering with two dozen guns pointed at them. But two?! And they're standing close enough for the heroes to knock them out. I've seen realistic crime dramas with no fantasy elements at all where the hero fights back and overcomes those odds.
One awesome part of Bring Down The Sky in Mass Effect is when
You open a door, and a guy comes out and shoots Shepard in the chest, thinking (s)he's a Bataran, but instead of hurting Shepard her kinetic barrier(shield) stops the bullet, so she just glances down with this "Stupid bastard shot me, the dumbass" look.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
Not to mention that everything they say about genetics, especially dominant and recessive genes is completely and utterly wrong.
oh, by the way,
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SONS OF BITCHES OPENLY SPOILING MGS4 STUFF WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET, LET ALONE FINALLY BOUGHT A PS3 JUST FOR THAT????? Sheesh, people, the game isn't even that old yet. And this isn't a MGS thread either.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
The first time that line was said, it was great because of unintentional homoerotic bent to the scene.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
The first time that line was said, it was great because of unintentional homoerotic bent to the scene.
True. Otakon as whole was a terrible creation. Even his name is the worst thing ever. In a series famous for the stupid and silly names, he has the most stupid and sillier one.
Thing is, if you invest in a plot (and, perhaps more importantly, characters) for 50+ hours, you tend to convince yourself that you care. I don't think that Final Fantasy X had a fantastic plot and many of the characters were annoying, but I wanted to finish the game, and by the end I found myself caring about the characters. I think it's a protective mechanism of sorts.
Yup, it happens with anything.
If you put effort in to something you tend to feel attached to it.
Course there are modifications to this tendency.
If you hate every minute of the time you spent on it the reverse will happen.
(Amusingly, you can get attached to a particular opinion. Hate something long enough you wont want to stop.)
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I've been going on a retro kick for a while now, and it's fascinating to play games that came out right before or after MGS hit. I just played through Lucasart's Outlaws, from 1997. The mere fact that a first person shooter decided to tell a story AT ALL was considered a big one.
Nowadays, every single fracking game is obligated to crank up the drama and tell some high faluting storyline. Frankly, I miss the days when a game would start with an Intro scene that read "you are a badass. Kill people" and off you went.
Don't get me wrong, I love a great plot-driven videogame. These days though, there's entirely too much of it.
/rant
Not really about Deus Ex Machina any more but just generally game endings.
By the time I got to the end of MGS4 I had had so much concentrated stupid injected into my brain if you had walked into my room and told me you were big boss and I was really in the game I would have believed you.
EDIT @Xagarath Thief: The Dark Project kicked Metal Gear's ass, especially because the ending wasn't HURR DURR DNA IS A COOL WORD I FOUND IN THE DICTIONARY LOL IMMA TALK NOW LOL WHY ARE THE BIOLOGISTS GETTING READY TO KILL ME HURR DURR
I was more thinking of System Shock, but pretty much.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
Not to mention that everything they say about genetics, especially dominant and recessive genes is completely and utterly wrong.
oh, by the way,
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SONS OF BITCHES OPENLY SPOILING MGS4 STUFF WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET, LET ALONE FINALLY BOUGHT A PS3 JUST FOR THAT????? Sheesh, people, the game isn't even that old yet. And this isn't a MGS thread either.
People always complain about the genetics thing, and I don't get it. It's not "wrong"...it's just DIFFERENT. In the fictional world of MGS, that's how genes work. I don't see why this is so hard to accept. As long as it's consistant in that fictional world, I don't see why it's so awful. It's not bad writing just because it works different in the real world.
LockedOnTarget on
0
WulfDisciple of TzeentchThe Void... (New Jersey)Registered Userregular
Had a better story
(and I had never heard of System Shock on the Mac before Marathon came out. Blame their Marketing dept.!)
Edit: Also, am I alone in the thinking that the MGS team should just stop making games and start doing movies with a few QTE choices? I mean really... MGS 4 was a sham of a piece of crap game wise
But uh, getting back on topic. I can't really think of any horrible Deus Ex moments from the whole Marathon series. Sure, un-expected things happened, but they weren't really moments of 'ah, I'm screwed! Oh hey magic save, thanks Big D!"
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
Not to mention that everything they say about genetics, especially dominant and recessive genes is completely and utterly wrong.
oh, by the way,
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SONS OF BITCHES OPENLY SPOILING MGS4 STUFF WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET, LET ALONE FINALLY BOUGHT A PS3 JUST FOR THAT????? Sheesh, people, the game isn't even that old yet. And this isn't a MGS thread either.
People always complain about the genetics thing, and I don't get it. It's not "wrong"...it's just DIFFERENT. In the fictional world of MGS, that's how genes work. I don't see why this is so hard to accept. As long as it's consistant in that fictional world, I don't see why it's so awful. It's not bad writing just because it works different in the real world.
Only Suspension of Disbelief doesn't work like that.
But they didn't signal to the player that "this is a world in which genetics are all ass-backwards". They try to build a "realistic" looking game, with a few oddities here and there, so we expect the fundamental laws of nature to work more or less like ours. They even used real genetics terms. Dominant genes aren't necessarily "better" or "superior" to recessive genes, and you can't separate them into 2 different yet identical clones of the same dude. Ugh, brain starting to hurt.
It's different from a game with colorful anime kids with glowing swords that can defy the laws of nature and have insta-clone machines and robots with a heart of gold and airships that have no visible means of staying aloft and so on and so forth.
Come on now... System Shocks story was basically just defeat the Big baddie and its high-fives and party poppers all around. :P
Suppose it comes down to what sort of story you like.
Happy ending or Oh crap, we just barely bought ourselves some time to prepare for a gigantic shit storm.
Vaguely similar to a deus ex machina in video games is the fact that many characters are hardly ever subject to the same rules in a cinematic scene as they are during gameplay.
What's this? She just irrevocably got killed from being stabbed by a sword? I could have sworn that 20 minutes ago massive shards of ice had crashed down on her and I just brought her back with an item.
Or really any time someone dies from a single gunshot when during gameplay they probably get shot over 100 times in a minute.
Gah, this sort of thing can drive me nuts sometimes! The worst example I can think of was in Final Fantasy X. I'd just fought my way into Yuna's shotgun wedding, through many battles with gun totting guards, then in the cut scene two of the exact same guards point their guns at the party and they surrender.
The thing that gets to me is that this scene could have made sense with a little more work! All they needed to do was throw in a ton of these guards. Have the doors open and a whole regiment storm in. There's no shame in the heroes surrendering with two dozen guns pointed at them. But two?! And they're standing close enough for the heroes to knock them out. I've seen realistic crime dramas with no fantasy elements at all where the hero fights back and overcomes those odds.
One awesome part of Bring Down The Sky in Mass Effect is when
You open a door, and a guy comes out and shoots Shepard in the chest, thinking (s)he's a Bataran, but instead of hurting Shepard her kinetic barrier(shield) stops the bullet, so she just glances down with this "Stupid bastard shot me, the dumbass" look.
Yes!
Man I hate the "huh, you fight well.. for a little girl. Now I'm tired of this fight, so I'm just going to run away" cutscenes at the end of every damned boss fight in every JRPG ever made. No son, I just kicked your ass around the park. You don't get cutscene super-powers and just saunter away while I watch on angrily.
Come on now... System Shocks story was basically just defeat the Big baddie and its high-fives and party poppers all around. :P
Suppose it comes down to what sort of story you like.
Happy ending or Oh crap, we just barely bought ourselves some time to prepare for a gigantic shit storm.
I fail to see how having a storyline that wraps up in a single game is somehow inherently worse story telling than stretching something over multiple games. Also, is this chest-thumping going somewhere? I like apples, enjoy your oranges.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think MGS1 is some of the best writing and acting every seen in a video game (with some sour lines here and there). I don't like it ironically or anything like that.
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
Not to mention that everything they say about genetics, especially dominant and recessive genes is completely and utterly wrong.
oh, by the way,
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SONS OF BITCHES OPENLY SPOILING MGS4 STUFF WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET, LET ALONE FINALLY BOUGHT A PS3 JUST FOR THAT????? Sheesh, people, the game isn't even that old yet. And this isn't a MGS thread either.
People always complain about the genetics thing, and I don't get it. It's not "wrong"...it's just DIFFERENT. In the fictional world of MGS, that's how genes work. I don't see why this is so hard to accept. As long as it's consistant in that fictional world, I don't see why it's so awful. It's not bad writing just because it works different in the real world.
Only Suspension of Disbelief doesn't work like that.
But they didn't signal to the player that "this is a world in which genetics are all ass-backwards". They try to build a "realistic" looking game, with a few oddities here and there, so we expect the fundamental laws of nature to work more or less like ours. They even used real genetics terms. Dominant genes aren't necessarily "better" or "superior" to recessive genes, and you can't separate them into 2 different yet identical clones of the same dude. Ugh, brain starting to hurt.
It's different from a game with colorful anime kids with glowing swords that can defy the laws of nature and have insta-clone machines and robots with a heart of gold and airships that have no visible means of staying aloft and so on and so forth.
Come on now... System Shocks story was basically just defeat the Big baddie and its high-fives and party poppers all around. :P
Suppose it comes down to what sort of story you like.
Happy ending or Oh crap, we just barely bought ourselves some time to prepare for a gigantic shit storm.
The cavalry showing up just in the nick of time has been a staple of entertainment since well, forever.
That's why the ending to CoD4 was so badass where:
everybody gets killed before the good russians show up
Dude I just played through CoD4
Such a dramatic ending, I almost thought Cpt. Price was going to make it, then I see the medic pounding on his chest and I'm like NOOOOOOO! I don't think I explicitly saw what happened to Gaz, I assumed he died too. The part in the middle where you play the marine who gets nuked is pretty fucked up too.
Gaz was shot in the face.
But don't call him Shirley.
COD4 had one of the best endings I've seen in a game, especially in the last few years. The story in the
2nd half of the game is awesome.
With that said, I haven't seen anyone mention Gears of War here yet with the Hammer of Dawn. The game seems to Poop that weapon out right when you need it and then conviniently take it away from you when the threat is eleminated. Lame. Also, I like the Call of Duty games, but I think one of the things that ruins them the most for me is that the enemies spawn forever, until either a timer runs out, or you cross an invisible check point. It makes all your fighting feel pointless.
The Grey GOAT on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." -HST
Posts
Come on down, Baldur's Gate series. Of course, progressively revealing that
will do that. Spoiler'd because anyone who hasn't played BG 1 and BG 2 and the expansions needs to get the fuck off the internet and live a piece of gaming history.
You're not a living god, you are the mortal child of Bhaal, Lord of Murder and God of Death, born for the sole purpose to die along with your countless half-siblings, so your essences would revive dear old dad.
...and I'm not spoilering it, because you were told this during the synopsis at the begining of BG2, the one of the two you REALLY need to play!
Disagree with that example as a Deus Ex. A Deus Ex comes from NO WHERE. Raiden was still mentioned as being very much alive. It was unexpected yes, but you're fooling yourself if you think Snake is going to die in a stupid microwave chamber.
Plus the ending of ToB where you got a long detailed description of what everyone did after the final battle was the fucking pimp. Also, space hampsters.
Fair enough, but...
And again, as I said on the last page but it got passed over somehow, raiden came in before the hallway. People can bitch about mgs all they want, but they should at least get the facts straight first.
XBL - Follow Freeman
Persona 3 has the worst example of this, in which the guy who've just called down the elements upon and beaten into submission with swords, guns and bows, then pulls a fucking revolver in a cut scene and everybody shits themselves.
The worst thing about that scene is that one of your party is a BLOODY BULLET PROOF BATTLE ANDROID WITH MACHINE GUN ARMS!
If Raiden can take out a room full of cyborgs soldiers with SMG's without using his arms after being crushed under a giant Mount Snakemore boat and going through the microwave corridor what the hell was Snake there for?!
Gah, this sort of thing can drive me nuts sometimes! The worst example I can think of was in Final Fantasy X. I'd just fought my way into Yuna's shotgun wedding, through many battles with gun totting guards, then in the cut scene two of the exact same guards point their guns at the party and they surrender.
The thing that gets to me is that this scene could have made sense with a little more work! All they needed to do was throw in a ton of these guards. Have the doors open and a whole regiment storm in. There's no shame in the heroes surrendering with two dozen guns pointed at them. But two?! And they're standing close enough for the heroes to knock them out. I've seen realistic crime dramas with no fantasy elements at all where the hero fights back and overcomes those odds.
Forgetting about this is a sign that I need to play FFV again. The way the character's skills get transferred might count as a Deux Ex Machina, thinking about it.
If you paid any attention at all during that cut scene, Raiden, Meryl, Johnny, and Mei-Ling were all ABOUT TO GODDAMN DIE a few moments before Snake uploaded the Virus. Raiden was on the ground with his sword knocked out of his mouth about to be run through by thirty or so FROGs, Meryl and Johnny were shot and about to be executed, Mei Ling was about to get sliced in half by a RAY unit. They were COVERING Snake to give him time to sabotage the computer system, HE DID. The Frogs then went crazy and shut down, saving the lives of Snake's friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS0nShOUAMk&feature=related
By all definitions, that fails as a Deus Ex.
Edit: And the video above proves it. Thanks.
XBL - Follow Freeman
One awesome part of Bring Down The Sky in Mass Effect is when
As much as I love MGS1, the writing is really, really awful. I mean, the whole "love blooming on the battlefield" thing was embarrassing, cringeworthy, among many other pearls of crappy writing.
Not to mention that everything they say about genetics, especially dominant and recessive genes is completely and utterly wrong.
oh, by the way,
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SONS OF BITCHES OPENLY SPOILING MGS4 STUFF WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET, LET ALONE FINALLY BOUGHT A PS3 JUST FOR THAT????? Sheesh, people, the game isn't even that old yet. And this isn't a MGS thread either.
The first time that line was said, it was great because of unintentional homoerotic bent to the scene.
True. Otakon as whole was a terrible creation. Even his name is the worst thing ever. In a series famous for the stupid and silly names, he has the most stupid and sillier one.
Yup, it happens with anything.
If you put effort in to something you tend to feel attached to it.
Course there are modifications to this tendency.
If you hate every minute of the time you spent on it the reverse will happen.
(Amusingly, you can get attached to a particular opinion. Hate something long enough you wont want to stop.)
Nowadays, every single fracking game is obligated to crank up the drama and tell some high faluting storyline. Frankly, I miss the days when a game would start with an Intro scene that read "you are a badass. Kill people" and off you went.
Don't get me wrong, I love a great plot-driven videogame. These days though, there's entirely too much of it.
/rant
By the time I got to the end of MGS4 I had had so much concentrated stupid injected into my brain if you had walked into my room and told me you were big boss and I was really in the game I would have believed you.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Marathon says "Hi"
[edit] What was Ultima Underworld's story like?
People always complain about the genetics thing, and I don't get it. It's not "wrong"...it's just DIFFERENT. In the fictional world of MGS, that's how genes work. I don't see why this is so hard to accept. As long as it's consistant in that fictional world, I don't see why it's so awful. It's not bad writing just because it works different in the real world.
Had a better story
(and I had never heard of System Shock on the Mac before Marathon came out. Blame their Marketing dept.!)
Edit: Also, am I alone in the thinking that the MGS team should just stop making games and start doing movies with a few QTE choices? I mean really... MGS 4 was a sham of a piece of crap game wise
But uh, getting back on topic. I can't really think of any horrible Deus Ex moments from the whole Marathon series. Sure, un-expected things happened, but they weren't really moments of 'ah, I'm screwed! Oh hey magic save, thanks Big D!"
Only Suspension of Disbelief doesn't work like that.
But they didn't signal to the player that "this is a world in which genetics are all ass-backwards". They try to build a "realistic" looking game, with a few oddities here and there, so we expect the fundamental laws of nature to work more or less like ours. They even used real genetics terms. Dominant genes aren't necessarily "better" or "superior" to recessive genes, and you can't separate them into 2 different yet identical clones of the same dude. Ugh, brain starting to hurt.
It's different from a game with colorful anime kids with glowing swords that can defy the laws of nature and have insta-clone machines and robots with a heart of gold and airships that have no visible means of staying aloft and so on and so forth.
Come on now... System Shocks story was basically just defeat the Big baddie and its high-fives and party poppers all around. :P
Suppose it comes down to what sort of story you like.
Happy ending or Oh crap, we just barely bought ourselves some time to prepare for a gigantic shit storm.
Yes!
Man I hate the "huh, you fight well.. for a little girl. Now I'm tired of this fight, so I'm just going to run away" cutscenes at the end of every damned boss fight in every JRPG ever made. No son, I just kicked your ass around the park. You don't get cutscene super-powers and just saunter away while I watch on angrily.
See: Armageddon.
Or don't...
Do not engage the Watermelons.
Erm, no it wasn't.
COD4 had one of the best endings I've seen in a game, especially in the last few years. The story in the
2nd half of the game is awesome.
With that said, I haven't seen anyone mention Gears of War here yet with the Hammer of Dawn. The game seems to Poop that weapon out right when you need it and then conviniently take it away from you when the threat is eleminated. Lame. Also, I like the Call of Duty games, but I think one of the things that ruins them the most for me is that the enemies spawn forever, until either a timer runs out, or you cross an invisible check point. It makes all your fighting feel pointless.
"Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." -HST