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GURPS 4th edition

MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
edited February 2009 in Critical Failures
basic1_sm.jpgbasic2_sm.jpg

Praise Steve Jackson and his brilliant mind. Having grown tired of 17 years of D&D, I decided to see what other games were out there. In my travels, I came across a little gem known as GURPS.

Holy Shnikies! Not only was I impressed, I was blown away. It was exactly what I was looking for. More realistic, and more sensible than d20, and even more flexible. Any genre. Any era. And best of all, it only takes a few books, and that's all you'll ever need. It's not the money pit D&D and some other games are.

So I've been working on starting up a GURPS fantasy game, and we've been doing some play-test games to get a feel for the system. Thus far, I'm very impressed.

While I don't really have any good GURPS stories of my own yet, I'd love to hear some from you guys. Stories don't have to be about 4th edition, just anything GURPS related.

For those who've never played GURPS, but are curious, you can get a "Lite" version of the rules here: http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004 for free.

Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Moridan on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    GURPS is an awesome system. Far superior to D20, in my not-so-humble opinion. :P

    It really got me started on the whole "classless" thing, and I hella like the idea. You can make pretty much anything, and you can be a decent combatant without having to specialize completely in combat.

    Thanatos on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    target43.html

    PiptheFair on
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    thorpethorpe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    transhum.jpg

    Thread over lawl

    thorpe on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I hear that's pretty good.
    Can anyone comment on the new Interstellar Wars Traveler book? I've never read any Traveler stuff, but from what I hear, it sounds pretty cool.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Something about GURPS just doesn't measure up, and I'm not quite sure what. Never quite what I want it to be, just slightly left of right.

    piL on
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    MukaikuboMukaikubo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The 4th edition update to Transhuman Space, Changing Times, is up on e23 and it is SHIT HOT

    Mukaikubo on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    If your Secret Santa is watching, sign Moridan up for Pyramid Online!

    Squashua on
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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    How is Pyramid? I've been tempted to check it out.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    How is Pyramid? I've been tempted to check it out.

    It's pretty good. I used to be signed up for a while (and wrote a couple of articles), but I fell out of my RPG-ing. I haven't been a member for the last couple of years.

    The community there is pretty nice, a lot of rpg industry pros are signed up, and you get access to way more GURPS resources than you could possibly handle. Plus they update weekly.

    Also, they have quality "any" RPG articles as well as articles that support other RPG systems, like D20. So it's not like you have to be a GURPS-head (I wasn't) to enjoy the articles.

    Squashua on
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    AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    thorpe wrote:
    Thread over lawl

    Just started playing a 4th ed trans-human campaign. <3 the setting.

    Asuma on
    "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    My copy of Traveler: Interstellar Wars shipped today. I don't know when I'll have time to run it, but I'm looking forward to reading it.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
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    Ashrem BayleAshrem Bayle Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Got Interstellar Wars in. This is my first real exposure to Traveler, and right now, I'm feeling a bit...overwhelmed. They sure packed a lot of info into that book. :shock: I've been reading for the last hour and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface.

    Ashrem Bayle on

    Moridan.jpg
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    KaunKaun Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Gurps was about the third game i picked up ..

    (AD&D, Mutant chronicals then Gurps)

    And it is a grate system. You just need to make sure the rest of your RP group are willing to step away from there comfort zone and into a new game. Thats prity much what chrused my first gurps sessions.. My freinds couldnt see the point in playing gurps fantsy when they already know the rules to AD&D.

    Kaun on
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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    thorpe wrote:
    transhum.jpg

    Thread over lawl

    A few questions:

    I read up on this and it seems a major theme is biotech used to modify the human body. How common is this in the setting? Is everyone I meet going to be some freak?

    Are there any non-human playable races?

    Is psionics used?

    Are there any/Who are the typical antagonist in this setting?

    What makes this a cool setting?

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    thorpe wrote:
    transhum.jpg

    Thread over lawl

    A few questions:

    I read up on this and it seems a major theme is biotech used to modify the human body. How common is this in the setting? Is everyone I meet going to be some freak?

    Are there any non-human playable races?

    Is psionics used?

    Are there any/Who are the typical antagonist in this setting?

    What makes this a cool setting?

    Sorry, I'm late! :(

    Biotech is *very* common. And to a lesser degree nano and information technology. Unless you live in the shittiest of third world shitholes you're going to be at least genefixed, and probably some light upgrading as well. Whether you view your fellow sapients as freaks depends mostly on your character's worldview.

    There's plenty of stuff to scratch your non-human itch, but no little green men. (Unless you feel like modifying your upper skin to allow photosynthesis, but I don't think that's what you're asking.)
    If you don't want to be stuck with Bob Generic, you can always play a sapient AI, an upload, an uplifted critter of some kind, and our lovable bunch of transhuman err... freaks. :?
    Ofcourse you can also play Sparky, the uplifted golden retriever turned private nose, that died after one biomod too many, got ghosted by his last mysterious client and is now fighting crime by infiltrating the most obscure corners of the net.
    Just be aware that the person running the game will fucking kill you. >_>

    No psionics. It's a relatively hard setting.

    Typical antagonists include:

    Selfish capitalists blocking the free flow of information / Dirty filesharing commie bastards
    Crazed AIs gone rogue / Our biological oppressors
    Unethical transhumanists trying to replace humanity itself / Uberconservative ludites getting in the way of Progress
    Radical preservationist terrorists interfering with the free market / Greedy megacorps raping all that is good and pure in this world
    Runaway libertarians with no sense of decency or ethics / Obsolete nationstates intending to take away our Freedom and maybe even tax us :<
    Those unscrupulous Chinese trying to steal our He3 / Those opportunistic Americans trying to steal our He3
    Nazis / Space Nazis / Space Nazis with Lasers pew pew pew
    Furries

    It's hard to spend a day without making some new friends and twice as many enemies.

    What makes it a cool setting is that it takes Planescape's "philosophers with clubs" and gives them lasers, neural interfaces, and a horde of lawyers. The central theme is "What is human?" and the setting is brimming with stuff to throw at the players in order to let them figure things out for themselves.
    The setting is also huge and diverse. Due to having the entire solar system to play with, there are thousands of interesting places to visit and figure out what makes the people who live there tick.
    There is very little you can't do in it, and you can fit loads of campaigns into the setting. Piracy in the asteroid belt, cyberpunking around in South Africa, corporate intrigue in and out of the boardroom, exploring strange new worlds, exploring strange new people, boldly go where no human has gone before, espionage, courtroom drama, loads of stuff! If you want to run something other than a dungeon crawl, it'll fit.
    The whole thing is buried in plot hooks that scream "USE ME!" and if no one feels like biting, it's fascinating to see what the players can get themselves into.
    It also fills the hard sciencefiction niche that is sadly underdeveloped in the wonderful world of roleplaying. :(

    Might as well list some complaints in the interest of keeping this fair and balanced, since you deserve to know the downsides too.
    The setting is overwhelming. There are just so many cool things to do that it's hard to decide what you want to do first. It's best to focus on one thing and expand from there. Doing everything at once results in a nightmare for the person running the game. There is also a lot of setting to take in, so some initial infodumping may be required to get the players up to speed. A good tactic for this is to start the game in one of the aforementioned third world shitholes (which is relatively close to what the players *are* familiar with) and slowly introduce the wacky world of the future from there.
    Lastly, I don't know who at SJG I have to kill for this, but the fucker that decided that not using the metric system in a hard sci-fi game involving spacetravel is a good idea, is a dead man... :evil:

    People are the same silly bastards in the future as they are now. They might live longer, have some cool biomods installed, have prehensile feet, or an overclocked brain, but they're still human. The question, ofcourse, is for how long... :wink:

    Allon on
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Wow, that post was a lot longer than I intended...
    Sorry about that. :(

    Allon on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2006
    Transhuman Space is what I'd use to represent the setting in Alastair Reynolds' books.

    As I keep saying: TS is great to buy just to read, even if you have no intention to play it.

    Echo on
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    GURPS (aside from basic WOD) is the best system ever.

    I once played a zombie-day sytle campaign, where we had to survive and reach an Island in South Ameria,or perish, great stuff.

    JCM on
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    thorpethorpe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Is Changing Times any different than third ed, or is it just a rules update?

    thorpe on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think it's mostly supposed to serve as a much-needed DMG, so to speak.
    If they pulled it off, it would take care of two out of three problems I had with the setting. Still no metric, though. :(
    Says there's been some conversion to 4rd ed, though, so I guess that answers that.

    There's a preview with the index and all here:
    http://e23.sjgames.com/media/SJG37-6701_preview.pdf

    Looks fine to me, might pick it up even though I've grokked it all already.

    Allon on
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    Alexan DriteAlexan Drite Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Allon wrote:
    Wow, that post was a lot longer than I intended...
    Sorry about that. :(
    No it was perfect. What do I need to buy and where should I get it?

    Alexan Drite on
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    TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Allon wrote:
    Wow, that post was a lot longer than I intended...
    Sorry about that. :(
    No it was perfect. What do I need to buy and where should I get it?
    After reading all that, I've decided to try GURPS, and will purchase that book tomorrow (assuming its available). Besides the core book, is there anything else I should look into?

    Edit - A question though: How well does the system lend itself for short adventures?

    Turkey on
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Allon wrote:
    Wow, that post was a lot longer than I intended...
    Sorry about that. :(
    No it was perfect. What do I need to buy and where should I get it?

    I don't know. That depends on whether you have any GURPS stuff around already...
    If you do, and want to expand into Transhuman Space, the THS corebook probably wouldn't be a bad start to see if you like it... ;)
    If you like that, might I recommend the absolutely sexellent Deep Beyond for all your solar systemmy needs beyond the orbit of Mars?
    Some of it is in need of some small errata, since all those malicious sciency guys haven't been sitting on their butts in the years since it's release, just to spoil a great sourcebook with new data. :evil:
    Ofcourse, if you want an Earthbound campaign, you should probably get Fifth Wave and/or Broken Dreams instead.
    Seriously, though. I need to know your library to give more accurate advice....
    If you want to jump into the deep end, though:
    http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/transhuman
    You can buy the hardcover through Warehouse23 from there.
    Scroll to the bottom to see the sourcebooks. I think they've all dropped to :tenbux: or lower by now.
    Word of advice: NEVER EVER even get near Orbital Decay. Seriously, burn it with fire. Don't even click on that link, or your computer will explode.
    Turkey wrote:
    After reading all that, I've decided to try GURPS, and will purchase that book tomorrow (assuming its available). Besides the core book, is there anything else I should look into?

    Edit - A question though: How well does the system lend itself for short adventures?

    For now, just pick up the corebook and get your head around the system.
    Or hell, download GURPSlite for that. Might save you some moneys if it turns out you hate the numbers.

    I'll be honest about the short adventure thing.
    No. Probably not. Although it is very much possible, the preptime/playtime is not too good in that regard.
    GURPS is heavily frontloaded. It gets most of the numbercrunching out of the way during character creation, which combined with more character options than GOD will make CC last relatively long.
    Once most of the calculatoriations are out of the way, and everyone's ready to play, though, everything should run smoothly from there, occasionally interrupted with a quick "Just a sec, spending some characterpoints." This is the reason that the effort/reward is a lot better for long-running games. The price you pay for a universal system, I guess. :/

    Fake edit: This post was written after a long period without sleep.
    Parts of it maybe typoed, inaccurate, lies, or hallucinated by me. If you spot any inaccuracies or have followup questions, yell at me really loudly.
    I should have bought Reduced Sleep for 10 points when I finished school, but nooo, I had to get Alcohol Tolerance instead... :roll:

    Allon on
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ok, wtf.

    I like the way the last GURPS thread here (the one that started still in G&T) started out practically the same as this one.
    Only real difference being Moridan going "Tell me about GURPS!" instead of "Let me tell you about GURPS!", before Thorpe went all: THS "Lol thread ovar, amirite :D"...

    On that note, back me up here, Thorpe, you lazy bastard!
    Why did I become the resident GURPSite all of a sudden? It's not even my main system at the moment! Exalted needs me, dammit!
    Go fill in the newbies or something. I need my beautysleep!

    Allon on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    PYRAMID ONLINE

    Game over. MIRITE?

    Squashua on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Anyone able to reccomend a good GURPS Character Creation program? I've become so inept at manually sorting out characters now it's insane.

    Edit: Anywhere I can grab those Lite rules without having to register?

    SUPERSUGA on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    SUPERSUGA wrote:
    Anyone able to reccomend a good GURPS Character Creation program? I've become so inept at manually sorting out characters now it's insane.

    Edit: Anywhere I can grab those Lite rules without having to register?

    I think SJG has their own program you can buy. Check Warehouse 23.

    Squashua on
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator mod
    edited December 2006
    How does 4th edition work with 3rd edition material? Is it a totally different beast or is there a conversion process? I have a bunch of 3rd edition sourcebooks and I've been considering picking up the 4th core book.

    One of these days I'd like to run an alternate Earths/time travel GURPS campaign.

    DMAC on
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    AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    SUPERSUGA wrote:
    Anyone able to reccomend a good GURPS Character Creation program? I've become so inept at manually sorting out characters now it's insane.

    Edit: Anywhere I can grab those Lite rules without having to register?

    I think SJG has their own program you can buy. Check Warehouse 23.

    GURPS character assistant, which I highly recommend. Used both the 3rd and 4th editions. Calculates everything for you then spits out a sheet. You can import multiple world book data sets for free off the website.

    Asuma on
    "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
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    AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    DMAC wrote:
    How does 4th edition work with 3rd edition material? Is it a totally different beast or is there a conversion process? I have a bunch of 3rd edition sourcebooks and I've been considering picking up the 4th core book.

    One of these days I'd like to run an alternate Earths/time travel GURPS campaign.

    The concepts are basically the same. The values have changed enough you'll need to convert characters (EX: major stats [IQ/DX] now cost flat 20 pts per level, etc). Conversion is good practice with the new system.

    Old weapons data is only partially the same (damage good, accuracies and other rules changed) but using the core book as a guide you can guesstimate 3e->4e conversions for anything that's missing.

    4e is a big improvement imo. The character creation process is more flexible and the combat rules have been simplified without losing "realism."

    EDIT: The 4e Core Set (Characters + Campaigns) comes with the alternate Earths/time travel setting. Bonus.

    Asuma on
    "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
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    piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think GURPS 4e could benefit from alternate methods of chargen; ones that were a little more heavy handed in what they let you and don't let you do. I've been considering having people make characters in another game and then convert them to GURPS just because, for players who aren't used to making characters that have lives other than bangbangshootstab, GURPS is a bit breakable.

    Not breakable per say, but starting with 17 arm dex and +6 pistol skill isn't what I was looking for.

    I find it rather difficult to explain how to limit them, and what can and can't be used. Meanwhile, it took us forever to figure out how to make a cybernetic taser, and it ended up being so expensive it wasn't quite worth it.

    But we've managed, and hopefully I'll be able to start running soon. Like any system, there are good parts and bad parts. We found some templates that streamlined the process some and made sure people had the skills they needed. Now that chargen is over, I think the greatest part of my worries is done with.

    piL on
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    thorpethorpe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Allon wrote:
    Ok, wtf.

    I like the way the last GURPS thread here (the one that started still in G&T) started out practically the same as this one.
    Only real difference being Moridan going "Tell me about GURPS!" instead of "Let me tell you about GURPS!", before Thorpe went all: THS "Lol thread ovar, amirite :D"...

    On that note, back me up here, Thorpe, you lazy bastard!
    Why did I become the resident GURPSite all of a sudden? It's not even my main system at the moment! Exalted needs me, dammit!
    Go fill in the newbies or something. I need my beautysleep!


    STOP YELLING AT ME! ABLUHUHU ABLUHUHU!

    And yeah, a cursory glance over that table of contents means I'm going to have to buy this. Damn you SJ.



    Damn you to hell.

    thorpe on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    DMAC wrote:
    How does 4th edition work with 3rd edition material? Is it a totally different beast or is there a conversion process? I have a bunch of 3rd edition sourcebooks and I've been considering picking up the 4th core book.

    One of these days I'd like to run an alternate Earths/time travel GURPS campaign.

    In addition to Asuma's comments above, I'd like to point out that SJ Games has a PDF listing conversions for characters from 3rd edition to 4th edition. Essentially, though, it's fairly similar in many respects as Asuma stated, with most of the changes based in point allocation.

    Also, regarding alternate Earths and time travel, standalone book Infinite Worlds expands on the information contained in the core books. It's a good book to get if you like the Infinite Worlds game setting provided in the basic set.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    So after looking at both Transhuman Space and Traveler, I think I'm going to go with Traveler for now. THS is certainly very interesting, but I think it's a little too hard sci-fi for my current tastes.

    I like Traveler's potential. An ongoing territorial conflict, where the Terrans are trying to take worlds is very cool. And there are a lot of sci-fi concepts (psionics, aliens races, mechs, etc.) that I want to use, and those fit easier into Traveler than THS.

    I just need to figure out an origin for psionics, and I'm gold.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    A wizard did it.

    Allon on
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    MukaikuboMukaikubo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    GURPS really requires either

    A: A definite set of "You can do this. You cannot do this." A good thing to say is "The campaign is realistic- anything in the book that is mentioned as being cinematic or not for normal people is verboten!" or "This game is cinematic, but not supernatural or daffily stupid. Use your common sense and if you have to ask yourself if this fits the game, don't take it or ask the GM first."

    B: A GM that is willing to look at a character and say "No. You fucked this up but good. Remake it- Take out X Y and Z because they're not acceptable. I suggest adding in W Q and P."

    There are just so many options for so many things, you can go nuts really easily and players that have too much slack on their leash can do stupid shit. I'm going to use an example from a currently-in-recruitment THS 4e game over SA as what Not To Do. The GM stated in the recruitment post that the campaign will not focus on combat to a large extent, and that characters should be feasible mercenary squad employees. The first character posted in the thread was a customized, unique-snowflake, combat-optimized Felicia catboy bioroid that was Killbot 9000 with absolutely no personality and every single point dedicated to cool kill-shit advantages and stats. Wait, shit, I lied, the character had some personality quirks. I will quote them in full.
    Dresses in Black[-1]
    Likes Raw Meat[-1]
    Pretends to be British[-1]
    Likes to be Called Mister King[-1]
    Likes Blonde Females(Human or Bioroid)[-1]

    This was it. This was the sole acknowledgment of a personality, nay, a LIFE outside of killing shit. The GM's reaction may have been harsh ("No. This isn't okay. In fact don't even bother making another character for this game. Go away.") but the character was THAT far off the mark.


    Conclusion/toolongdidn'tread version: GURPS requires a firm GM hand lest the stupid or inexperienced players get too far out of line.

    Mukaikubo on
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    AllonAllon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meh. The players are a lot more important.
    GM interference should not be required unless shit really derails.

    Allon on
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    MukaikuboMukaikubo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Allon wrote:
    Meh. The players are a lot more important.
    GM interference should not be required unless shit really derails.

    I find an ounce of prevention ("No. No, you can't be an emergent sapient AI controlling a swarm of combat bioroids.") is worth a pound of cure ("Your character completely fails to fit in with the game every single other player not to mention the GM intended and wanted and you're fucking it up for the rest of us. Your character just walked into a sword held conveniently at neck level. REALLY HARD.") when it comes to GM intercession in character creation.

    Mukaikubo on
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    thorpethorpe Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Of course, that sheer, gribbly variety is part of what makes GURPS so great. I can't wait to get my hands on UltraTech Edit.4 and see what bizarre and wonderful equipment is available.

    thorpe on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Mukaikubo wrote:
    I find an ounce of prevention ("No. No, you can't be an emergent sapient AI controlling a swarm of combat bioroids.") is worth a pound of cure ("Your character completely fails to fit in with the game every single other player not to mention the GM intended and wanted and you're fucking it up for the rest of us. Your character just walked into a sword held conveniently at neck level. REALLY HARD.") when it comes to GM intercession in character creation.

    Yeah, I'm afraid I've seen that kind of thing a lot too.


    "I'll be a nine-foot War Mech!"

    "Um, but you're a bunch of Emissaries hired by this Corporation..."

    "I SAID I WANT TO BE A WAR MECH! WITH RAYS GUNS AND SHIT!"

    "You can't do anything vaguely diplomatic if you're a war mech, no one would possibly hire you! You can't even fit through the goddamn door!"


    And yet it's so fun when people are prepared to fit in to things. Part of wonderous variety is knowing when to tap it :P

    Edcrab on
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