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Graphic novel recommendations?

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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    well that's a ter...wait a minute, i see what you did there

    Servo on
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    SkankPlayaSkankPlaya Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I've finished Dark Knight Returns, and the end was a lot better than the beginning. The problem is that you don't get a good sense of context in the beginning, and therefore it takes a lot of time to appreciate the gravity of the book. The context is there in bits and pieces throughout the book, but I think the story could be a lot better with a little more introduction.

    A couple things I liked was the vulnerability of Superman, and what you see of him when the coldbringer goes off. Also, the ass hole citizen who thinks he is justified in self-protection when he is really just murdering people who flinch around him.

    SkankPlaya on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Frank Miller shouldn't ever be allowed to write Superman

    ever

    Garlic Bread on
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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    SkankPlaya wrote:
    I've finished Dark Knight Returns, and the end was a lot better than the beginning. The problem is that you don't get a good sense of context in the beginning, and therefore it takes a lot of time to appreciate the gravity of the book. The context is there in bits and pieces throughout the book, but I think the story could be a lot better with a little more introduction.

    A couple things I liked was the vulnerability of Superman, and what you see of him when the coldbringer goes off. Also, the ass hole citizen who thinks he is justified in self-protection when he is really just murdering people who flinch around him.

    I think DKR was amazing for it's time but hasn't aged as well as other Batman trades have. These days I much prefer Year One and The Long Halloween.

    edit - also this is coming from somebody who owns the absolute edition of DRK

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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Lost in Graphic Novel/TPB land.

    Okay so i've recently read Sandman and i'm having a hard time topping that. I tried DKR..tried Kingdom Come..Watchmen..

    I'm not sure where to turn. Sandman was truly immense. I was captivated. Can anyone point me in the direction of where I should go next?

    The most immense thing aside from Sandman that I know of is Fables.

    I think everybody in this forum will agree that if you are not reading Fables you are doing yourself a great great disservice. Go start reading it as soon as you can.

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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    I kind of want to read Sandman, but there's so much other stuff I'm more interested in that I'll probably never get around to picking up any Sandman

    Garlic Bread on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Keith, you are so dumb. So dumb it hurts.

    I don't like most of the art in american comics. I definately don't. But never did I state that I like the art in most manga. Most of it is pretty god awful. In fact, I'm just very particular about art. Last time I went to an art museum I think there was something like 2 paintings I actually enjoyed. Darwyn Cooke seems to have a neat style in black and white but colored it looked pretty bad. That's just from a quick GIS though. (I know, GIS is a poor representation but I cant be expected to run out to a comic book store everytime one of you drops a name)

    Secondly. Yes Keith, you are sooo right. Just because I think dialogue during a fight is stupid must mean I hate dialogue in all parts of all comic books and completely hate thinking, idiot.

    They could make the comic books longer you know. Take the dialogue out of the fight scenes and move it elsewhere. Since your paying such "exuberant" amounts they could make the comics longer. Not that I even see where your coming from on this, comic books seem to be a inexpensive hobby to me.

    And Servo, yeah I know you were over exagerating for emphasis, but not all manga is that bad. I don't think I could stand to read one like what you described. However, it makes me sad when thor knocking an opponent into the air, jumping after him, and hammering him into the earth after the opponent lands and looks up is broken down into 3 panels, only one of which actually shows thor hitting the guy. I'd much perfer a middle ground.

    Inquisitor on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Really, don't use Google Image Search to look up comic art. Use this.

    On top of showing you a more extensive collection of art by the people we recommend, you can browse countless other artists and find one you DO like. If art, more than story, governs what you buy, then I'm sure a half hour or so at the site will give you a fairly long list of people to look up next time you're at the store.

    robosagogo on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Really, don't use Google Image Search to look up comic art. Use this.

    On top of showing you a more extensive collection of art by the people we recommend, you can browse countless other artists and find one you DO like. If art, more than story, governs what you buy, then I'm sure a half hour or so at the site will give you a fairly long list of people to look up next time you're at the store.

    Art doesn't mean more than story to me. But at a certain point if I dislike the art enough, but still like the story, then it might aswell just be a book. Which is probably why its taken me so long to get into comics, I've just been reading books instead.

    Inquisitor on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    If you just want fights, try fightcomix, like Sharknife, or Hysteria:One Man Gang.

    DouglasDanger on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    it sounds like you don't like color in comics more than anything else

    Servo on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Servo wrote:
    it sounds like you don't like color in comics more than anything else

    You know, I think you hit the nail on the head servo. I've been spending the last few moments flipping through that comic art gallery that was linked to. I dig alot of the black and white works of people, but then I see their colored stuff and I hate it. The colors are either completely flat, or they are so obviously done by computers and far too glossy.

    I guess I ought to try to hunt down some black and white comics, though they seem rare.

    And I don't just want fights. I like story alot. I just find the combat scenes abrupt in alot of comics and very dialogue heavy.

    Also, sorry for seriously derailing the thread.

    Inquisitor on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Seriously though, everyone should at least look at the preview for Sharknife.

    DouglasDanger on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Inquisitor wrote:
    I don't like most of the art in american comics. I definately don't. But never did I state that I like the art in most manga. Most of it is pretty god awful.

    You said you have trouble getting into American comics because of the art, and then go on to say that you read mostly manga. This implies that you highly prefer manga art to American comics.
    Inquisitor wrote:
    In fact, I'm just very particular about art. Last time I went to an art museum I think there was something like 2 paintings I actually enjoyed.

    I'm the same way. Shit, I'm an art student. That automatically makes me a pretentious fuckwit. But have I read and enjoyed comics with absolutely abysmal (see: Michael Turner) art? Yes.
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Since your paying such "exuberant" amounts they could make the comics longer. Not that I even see where your coming from on this, comic books seem to be a inexpensive hobby to me.

    That's not how business works. You don't get more content for the same price. If hundreds of thousands of people are buying comics for the price they are now, they wouldn't just say, "Hey, let's spend more money on printing but charge the same price."

    Comics seem like an inexpensive hobby at first, but then if you get into them, they're really not. Sure, if you're just into Batman or Superman, $6 or $9 a month for all of their books is cheap. But then if you say, "Hey, I like Robin and Nightwing" and you buy their books, and then "Oh, there's more Robin in Teen Titans and Nightwing in Outsiders/every other book", how much money you spend on books gets ridiculous.
    Inquisitor wrote:
    However, it makes me sad when thor knocking an opponent into the air, jumping after him, and hammering him into the earth after the opponent lands and looks up is broken down into 3 panels, only one of which actually shows thor hitting the guy. I'd much perfer a middle ground.

    Panels are at a premium. It's different in manga since they're released as digests, but for the American comic that is, what, 24 pages long, you can't go into extreme detail with the action.

    That's what the movie tie-ins are for.

    Garlic Bread on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I guess that did imply that I perfer manga art. It's pretty bad for the most part too. It's just what I grew up on more, due to the friends that I had. So, point to you there.

    I'm definately not saying I can't enjoy comics with art I dont enjoy. Like I said, I loved the Dark Knight Returns, absolutely loved it. But it was hands down the worst looking comic I have ever read. (Don't crucify me, it's an opinion).

    I know that's not how buisness works. I was just saying, if you thought it was so expensive, then they ought to give you more pages. I see that you think it's expensive because you follow alot of comics. That makes sense.

    Mangas are solid in America as digests, but not all of them come out that way. Most of them are weekly releases around 18 to so pages in magazines that contain many other weekly mangas. They then package a bunch of those together for the digests you see here in America. So, they have less pages than an american comic wehn they come out, but they are released at a much faster rate. I was in fact quite suprised to here how slowly many american comics come out (take civil war for example.) I was also suprised by the fact that one comic artist will frequently work on multiple projects at the same time. It's definately different form how it's handled in manga.

    Inquisitor on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Inquisitor wrote:
    I'm definately not saying I can't enjoy comics with art I dont enjoy. Like I said, I loved the Dark Knight Returns, absolutely loved it. But it was hands down the worst looking comic I have ever read. (Don't crucify me, it's an opinion).

    I can see why you don't like DKR's art

    but if you just page through Dark Knight Strikes Again, it'll make DKR look like Rembrandt

    Garlic Bread on
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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think we can all agree DKR's art looks a billion times better than Watchmen.


    There, I said it!

    Hardtarget on
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    Diablo FettDiablo Fett Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Hardtarget wrote:
    I think we can all agree DKR's art looks a billion times better than Watchmen.


    There, I said it!
    Blasphemy.

    I read Watchmen for the first time this year, and the art didn't bother me in the least. In fact, i felt it's illustrations were some of the best out there.

    Also, though unrelated, Tim Sale has quickly become one of my favorite artists. After reading Batman: The Long Halloween, Spider-Man: Blue and Hulk: Gray, and currently reading Superman For All Seasons, his similar yet drastically altering styles are incredibly poignant and really give each story their own identity.

    Diablo Fett on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Tim Sale's Superman in "For All Seasons" has Captain Marvel's squinty retard eyes

    Garlic Bread on
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    Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think Sandman - The Wake has my favorite art ever.

    Mai-Kero on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    New Frontier really has my favorite art ever. I honestly want every single panel put up around my house

    Garlic Bread on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Is it really that good Keith? I've heard a few people here say how good it is and im really close to breaking down and getting the absolute edition from overstock.

    Marathon on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    the story is fantastic and I love Darwyn Cooke's art so much

    it's simple yet stylized, since he's an animator

    Garlic Bread on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    Is it really that good Keith? I've heard a few people here say how good it is and im really close to breaking down and getting the absolute edition from overstock.
    Yes it is really that good.

    deadonthestreet on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Good deal, ill have to pick it up once I get paid on Friday.

    Marathon on
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    Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Inquisitor wrote:
    I guess that did imply that I perfer manga art. It's pretty bad for the most part too. It's just what I grew up on more, due to the friends that I had. So, point to you there.

    I'm definately not saying I can't enjoy comics with art I dont enjoy. Like I said, I loved the Dark Knight Returns, absolutely loved it. But it was hands down the worst looking comic I have ever read. (Don't crucify me, it's an opinion).

    I know that's not how buisness works. I was just saying, if you thought it was so expensive, then they ought to give you more pages. I see that you think it's expensive because you follow alot of comics. That makes sense.

    Mangas are solid in America as digests, but not all of them come out that way. Most of them are weekly releases around 18 to so pages in magazines that contain many other weekly mangas. They then package a bunch of those together for the digests you see here in America. So, they have less pages than an american comic wehn they come out, but they are released at a much faster rate. I was in fact quite suprised to here how slowly many american comics come out (take civil war for example.) I was also suprised by the fact that one comic artist will frequently work on multiple projects at the same time. It's definately different form how it's handled in manga.
    uh dude most manga in japan comes out into tanks like ASAP

    it is also usually written so it can blend together in said book.

    Sars_Boy on
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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Oddly, the art on the slipcase cover of Absolute New Frontier put me off buying it, but then I saw some of the actual art inside and now I so very much want. Want. WANT it.

    Kingdom Come too.

    Wildcat on
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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Wildcat wrote:
    Oddly, the art on the slipcase cover of Absolute New Frontier put me off buying it, but then I saw some of the actual art inside and now I so very much want. Want. WANT it.

    Kingdom Come too.

    i like the art on the slipcase... Absolute New Frontier is amazing guys, make sure you all buy it.

    Hardtarget on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Hardtarget wrote:
    Wildcat wrote:
    Oddly, the art on the slipcase cover of Absolute New Frontier put me off buying it, but then I saw some of the actual art inside and now I so very much want. Want. WANT it.

    Kingdom Come too.

    i like the art on the slipcase... Absolute New Frontier is amazing guys, make sure you all buy it.

    tiplant3sg.gif
    Does DC pay you well? You schill. jk.

    I really like the art on the slipcase too, it has a nice classic look to it. Sort of like the art from the old comics you would find in the daily newspapers.

    Marathon on
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Dayspring wrote:
    Bone is brilliant.
    x2

    SithDrummer on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    So on my lunch today at work I slipped up to my local barnes and nobel and looked through their comic book section. It's not a real comic book shop by any stretch of the imagination but, it had alot of trades.

    I was looking through a book called "The Art of Hellboy" and was digging the art style quite a bit. Half of the art was in black and white and the other half was in color, it looked really good in black and white, but the color not so much. I figured that the colored ones where probably for covers, and the actual comic would be in black and white.

    Much to my dismay when I picked up some of the hellboy trades they had I realized the whole thing was in color. And it was bad. I mean, it's like they picked some guy up off the street, plopped him infront of a computer with photoshop, taught him layers and gradients and then let him do his thing.

    Inquisitor on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    If you take a look at Absolute New Frontier and insult its coloring, you might be banned.

    robosagogo on
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    HankStamperHankStamper Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What makes Miracleman Book 1 worth 300 dollars on Amazon (and these are used editions, mind you)?

    HankStamper on
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    TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    What makes Miracleman Book 1 worth 300 dollars on Amazon (and these are used editions, mind you)?

    Rare, tied up in a legal rat's nest and unable to be reprinted because of that.

    EDIT: Wikipedia link.

    Terrorbyte on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What makes Miracleman Book 1 worth 300 dollars on Amazon (and these are used editions, mind you)?
    Out of print, very rare, unlikely to find its way back into print any time soon.

    robosagogo on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    Inquisitor wrote:
    So on my lunch today at work I slipped up to my local barnes and nobel and looked through their comic book section. It's not a real comic book shop by any stretch of the imagination but, it had alot of trades.

    I was looking through a book called "The Art of Hellboy" and was digging the art style quite a bit. Half of the art was in black and white and the other half was in color, it looked really good in black and white, but the color not so much. I figured that the colored ones where probably for covers, and the actual comic would be in black and white.

    Much to my dismay when I picked up some of the hellboy trades they had I realized the whole thing was in color. And it was bad. I mean, it's like they picked some guy up off the street, plopped him infront of a computer with photoshop, taught him layers and gradients and then let him do his thing.

    that's really not how colorists work generally

    i don't understand why or how you can think that, and i realize that you can't explain it. i assume it's some kind of chemical imbalance

    Servo on
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    LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Good coloring that comes to mind:
    Batman: Year One
    V for Vendetta

    Then the Alex Ross & Darwin Cooke stuff.

    Lux on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Servo wrote:

    that's really not how colorists work generally

    i don't understand why or how you can think that, and i realize that you can't explain it. i assume it's some kind of chemical imbalance

    I was exagerating to point out how bad it looks. But, to try to explain this hellboy wallpaper is colored in the style that the comic I saw in the store was. I could take the inked, black and white image to looking just like in photoshop in like 10 minutes, using layers, gradients, and maybe the burn and dodge tool. And my photoshop knowledge is basic at best. The colors just feel very flat to me. It would look better using black and white that using flat colors, to my eye. Obviously, other people have other opinions. But I was just trying to explain where I am coming from.

    Inquisitor on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Servo wrote:

    that's really not how colorists work generally

    i don't understand why or how you can think that, and i realize that you can't explain it. i assume it's some kind of chemical imbalance

    I was exagerating to point out how bad it looks. But, to try to explain this hellboy wallpaper is colored in the style that the comic I saw in the store was. I could take the inked, black and white image to looking just like in photoshop in like 10 minutes, using layers, gradients, and maybe the burn and dodge tool. And my photoshop knowledge is basic at best. The colors just feel very flat to me. It would look better using black and white that using flat colors, to my eye. Obviously, other people have other opinions. But I was just trying to explain where I am coming from.

    Don't waste your time taking to this Inquisitor guy. This is the guy that two pages ago basically said that all art in modern comics sucks, starting with trashing Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen. He's either trolling or has absolutely no understanding of comic book art.

    Briareos on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Briareos wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Servo wrote:

    that's really not how colorists work generally

    i don't understand why or how you can think that, and i realize that you can't explain it. i assume it's some kind of chemical imbalance

    I was exagerating to point out how bad it looks. But, to try to explain this hellboy wallpaper is colored in the style that the comic I saw in the store was. I could take the inked, black and white image to looking just like in photoshop in like 10 minutes, using layers, gradients, and maybe the burn and dodge tool. And my photoshop knowledge is basic at best. The colors just feel very flat to me. It would look better using black and white that using flat colors, to my eye. Obviously, other people have other opinions. But I was just trying to explain where I am coming from.

    Don't waste your time taking to this Inquisitor guy. This is the guy that two pages ago basically said that all art in modern comics sucks, starting with trashing Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen. He's either trolling or has absolutely no understanding of comic book art.

    *shrugs* I guess I lack understanding, because I'm definately not trolling. I really enjoyed reading Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen. They were a great read. But, I found the art in both of them to be very poor. Maybe it's just not for me. Excuse me for trying to find comic books that prehaps would have a story and art that interest me at the same time. Stop being so sensitive and maybe try to understand that while some people might not have the same taste in art in you, they still want to enjoy comic books, and still can enjoy some of the excellent writing contained within some comic books despite having to trudge through the art. Or, is it just easier to call me a troll then deal with the concept that someone might not enjoy the art of your favorite comics?

    Inquisitor on
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