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Quo - Cloning Macs starting June 1

245

Posts

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    So you're arguing that because they don't manufacture every piece of the devices they sell they aren't a hardware company? Dell, HP, Sony, etc do the same thing--they buy motherboards, processors, graphics chipsets, and so on from other companies and assemble them into finished computers.

    HP makes a bunch of hardware, so does Sony. Dell aren't really a hardware company, more an assembly company more in the vein of a middleman then a producer.

    Robman on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    I think the point is that their hardware is no more special than the next computer, apart from formfactor. They don't cast a magic spell at the factory to somehow make Apple branded computers more capable of running the OS than any other machine built from the same parts. And since those parts are largely available off-the-shelf at far more reasonable prices, I think it's pretty reasonable to want a cheaper machine running the same OS, just as one might choose a Dell instead of a Sony

    OK, then. That makes sense. With that said, you're also getting (generally) excellent industrial design along with those commodity parts (e.g. the unibody Macbook & Macbook Pro that Obs loves so much). That's what people pay for (and the bundled software).

    Is it reasonable to wish Apple would allow enthusiasts to install OSX on any computer we please? Yes, of course, and I'd probably be one to take advantage of such an opportunity. It's also reasonable of Apple to want to deny people that possibility given the fact that Mac hardware is what keeps the company afloat (ignore iPods, iPhones, etc for the moment). I hope Apple eventually relents (even if they don't officially provide support for these clones/hackintoshes/whatever) or is forced to allow companies like Quo and Psystar to produce these 3rd party "Macs," but I won't hold it against them if that never happens, either.

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Honestly whether apple "allows" me to do something is immaterial, if I want to do something with my computer I'm going to bloody well do it

    Not that I would ever voluntarily use OS X, I'm just saying

    Azio on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    obs, I actually see your point and agree with you, but dismissive one-word replies don't exactly hel--

    oh, what the fuck am I doing

    anyway, yeah, apple are a hardware company. or, at worst, a "design" company. their business is designing and selling hardware, and while they do sell retail copies of OS X, anyone who thinks that's a sustainable business model for apple is a moron.

    ... unless, I suppose, they go the microsoft route and actually implement some sort of anti-piracy measures or registration keys on their OS, and sell it for two to three times the price

    Could Apple sell Macs that ran Vista? Could they sell iPods without iTunes? They aren't really a hardware or a software company.


    Yes, Apple could sells Macs that come with Vista bootcamp ready.

    correction: for ran Vista read run only Vista.

    Why the fuck would they do that

    There is already a market for shitty Vista computers

    You might want to think about what you are saying before you post. Or not.

    Well, we do know that the market for shitty Vista PCs is several times larger than the market for shitty overpriced Apple computers with Mac OS X. Or any Mac OS. Combined.

    But, it is Apple's prerogative. They'll just need to keep dealing with this, and coming down on the 'Hakintosh' scene. Until their OS ceases to b e popular, anyway.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited June 2009
    I think that lowly was actually just pointing out that Obs apparently unknowingly said that Apples are shitty computers.

    Unknown User on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    robothero wrote: »
    I think that lowly was actually just pointing out that Obs apparently unknowingly said that Apples are shitty computers.

    Technically he was calling Apples shitty while trying to imply that any computer with Vista is shitty.

    On a more serious note he was simply arguing my point that Apple couldn't sell their Macs without their software so it was inaccurate to call them a "hardware company".

    Of course Apple used to claim that the Motorolla chips they used were superior to Intel chips so back then it would have been easier to claim that the hardware matters.

    lowlylowlycook on
    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Apple is an OS company first and foremost, anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional, hardware is just the packaging their OS comes in. This goes for the iPod and iPhone as well, as nice as they are in terms of product design, their real selling point is the OS that runs on them (indeed, think about the iPhone. The entire point of the product design is to keep the product out of the way. When you hold an iPhone all you see is the operating system, the product is barely even there).

    However, I think at this point Apple basically relies on hardware sales to make their OS business viable. I guess if OS sales increase exponentially and leave their hardware sales in the dust now that it can run on PCs that might change. However, as OSX users are a tiny minority of the OS market to begin with and 'hackintoshers' are a tiny minority within that minority, I don't see Apple officially abandoning their hardware stranglehold in favour of a more flexible business model any time soon. To do so would require a guarantee of a significantly larger chunk of the OS market, because it would surely be accompanied by a decline in sales of their own hardware not to mention the additional hardware compatibility they'd likely have to build in from scratch, customer support costs and the general damage to the brand allowing OSX to run on computers of varying quality would likely involve. Essentially, for an OS company, they have a terrifying amount of money and resources invested in hardware, it won't be easy to sever that cord.

    Really, it's a shitty situation for Apple but one that they've got themselves to blame for. If they hadn't adopted the hardware-restrictive business model in the early days of the OS then the current balance of power of the OS market might look very different today. They've created a standard that may or may not be in their best financial interests but one which would be very costly, if perhaps only in the short term, to break away from with no guarantee that such action would pay-off in the long-term.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I disagree. Apple may have used to be an OS company, but they're now an image company. They sell sizzle: sleek looks, slightly higher quality cases and design, and simplistic marketing jingos.

    The iPhone and the Macbook are both marketed at hip college kids and early 20somethings. The Macbook Pro and their desktop line are aimed at those same people once they get into their late 20s and early 30s. The iMac is the hip family PC.

    I feel that everything that Apple does is in a further effort to cement themselves as the hip and fun electronics line for urbanites. That's where their market strength lies, in their stranglehold on that image. Not on their OS's stability, nor on the hardware quality beyond the case, but the image of cool.

    Robman on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Good for you.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lolopinions

    Robman on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Yes, as opposed to lolreality.

    I certainly won't deny that they use lifestyle in their marketing, amongst other cues, and that their OS and hardware function as lifestyle tools as well as business tools but Microsoft do likewise with Windows. Windows isn't marketed purely as a business tool, it's also marketed as a recreational and lifestyle tool. In the case of both companies, their core product and business is an operating system regardless of how that product is marketed.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    I think the point is that their hardware is no more special than the next computer, apart from formfactor. They don't cast a magic spell at the factory to somehow make Apple branded computers more capable of running the OS than any other machine built from the same parts. And since those parts are largely available off-the-shelf for half the price I think it's pretty reasonable to want a cheaper machine running the same OS, just as one might choose a Dell instead of a Sony.

    Form factor is really just a small part of it. Apple supports their hardware and software together in a package. This is the key factor in how they win over many of their customers. Most technical issues associated with PC's become very simple with the Mac because of the limited hardware configurations.

    This is probably also why they limit their models and eliminated mid-range. To compete with the mid-range market they would constantly be forced to offer different hardware configurations and start squeezing on price to stay competitive. This makes troubleshooting more difficult because customized boxes will always have more unpredictable issues. Basically, why offer a bunch of oddball hardware half-assed support when you can offer a few pieces of hardware exceptional hardware support?

    This is why they choose to offer a few high end all in one packages. This way all your base hardware is Apple brand and therefore directly supportable by Apple. This is EXPECTED by apple customers. This is why you see leopard running smoothly on 8 year old macs. The hardware is supported. Not a lot of 8 year old PC's running vista (though I'm sure its possible) It's also easier to draw the line where that support ends. (All macs with a 867MHz or faster processor)

    The other issue is competition. Almost all PC makers compete on price. Apple chose to avoid this path by instead competing with aesthetics. Basically, you get the same hardware but in a very compact and high quality package. This is of course much more expensive because it requires a lot more engineering than simply tossing a bunch of parts into a standard case.

    On top of that you have things like EFI, which replaces BIOS, plus highly integrated thermal management system. Even the Video bios is non-standard but still includes some legacy support (for bootcamp)

    Your Chip sets, CPU's, DVD drives, LCD's, RAM... yeah totally off the shelf.
    Logic boards, firmware, form factor... Totally custom.

    Basically, what I'm saying is that the only way for Apple to give its computers exceptional ease of use and support (eliminating driver issues, etc..) is to somehow force its customers to buy all the hardware from them. The only way for Apple to make its customers buy all the hardware from them is to cram it into a really small, expensive, and aesthetically pleasing package. This makes their computers expensive, but also appealing.

    lilB on
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    plus highly integrated thermal management system. Even the Video bios is non-standard but still includes some legacy support (for bootcamp)

    Your Chip sets, CPU's, DVD drives, LCD's, RAM... yeah totally off the shelf.
    Logic boards, firmware, form factor... Totally custom.
    I don't have a problem with most of your post but, while the thermal management might be well integrated its still absolute shit, the videocards and processors in mac laptops run very, very near their highest rated operating temperatures, which decreases the lifespan of the parts. And the only reason the videocard firmware is nonstandard is so that end users can't just pop in any card they want, it offers no benefits.

    taliosfalcon on
    WII U NNID- talios
    steam-taliosfalcon
    XBL-AdeptPenguin
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Robman wrote: »
    I disagree. Apple may have used to be an OS company, but they're now an image company. They sell sizzle: sleek looks, slightly higher quality cases and design, and simplistic marketing jingos.

    The iPhone and the Macbook are both marketed at hip college kids and early 20somethings. The Macbook Pro and their desktop line are aimed at those same people once they get into their late 20s and early 30s. The iMac is the hip family PC.

    I feel that everything that Apple does is in a further effort to cement themselves as the hip and fun electronics line for urbanites. That's where their market strength lies, in their stranglehold on that image. Not on their OS's stability, nor on the hardware quality beyond the case, but the image of cool.

    If this is the case, Apple's pretty much already hit the high-point of their resurgence since the rise of the IBM/Windows standard.

    I'm firmly convinced that there's only so much you can market on 'cool', especially when it comes to personal computers. Small, personal media devices are a different story--if Apple can successfully market whatever the year's Tamogotchi is, like they have in the past, good for them. They'll just actively have to compete with every other PMD and cell-phone manufacturer on the planet, as is typical in this business. I'm a member of Apple's target demographic: college-educated, 20s, with disposable income. But I just want an affordable computer, not something cool, trendy and hip. I've never really looked at a computer as something that needed to trendy and hip--then again, I've never gone to a Starbucks just so people can see me type on a laptop.

    The highest concentration of Apple computers is in bourgeois colleges/educational institutions in the United States. The rest of the world doesn't even come close. There are probably more Macs on US campuses than the rest of the first world combined. But there are only so many college students and hip, trendy, primarily-American folks with cash to burn.

    Of course, in this case, Apple's found their niche--and good on them for it. The niche of all other computer companies--HP, Compaq, Dell, Acer--is to sell computers to the entirety of the world's population that wants them. Good for them too. Looking on it this way, I can see why Mac is likely going to come down on Quo like a iron on a blind, infant rat.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    I disagree. Apple may have used to be an OS company, but they're now an image company. They sell sizzle: sleek looks, slightly higher quality cases and design, and simplistic marketing jingos.

    The iPhone and the Macbook are both marketed at hip college kids and early 20somethings. The Macbook Pro and their desktop line are aimed at those same people once they get into their late 20s and early 30s. The iMac is the hip family PC.

    I feel that everything that Apple does is in a further effort to cement themselves as the hip and fun electronics line for urbanites. That's where their market strength lies, in their stranglehold on that image. Not on their OS's stability, nor on the hardware quality beyond the case, but the image of cool.

    If this is the case, Apple's pretty much already hit the high-point of their resurgence since the rise of the IBM/Windows standard.

    I'm firmly convinced that there's only so much you can market on 'cool', especially when it comes to personal computers. Small, personal media devices are a different story--if Apple can successfully market whatever the year's Tamogotchi is, like they have in the past, good for them. They'll just actively have to compete with every other PMD and cell-phone manufacturer on the planet, as is typical in this business. I'm a member of Apple's target demographic: college-educated, 20s, with disposable income. But I just want an affordable computer, not something cool, trendy and hip. I've never really looked at a computer as something that needed to trendy and hip--then again, I've never gone to a Starbucks just so people can see me type on a laptop.

    The highest concentration of Apple computers is in bourgeois colleges/educational institutions in the United States. The rest of the world doesn't even come close. There are probably more Macs on US campuses than the rest of the first world combined. But there are only so many college students and hip, trendy, primarily-American folks with cash to burn.

    Of course, in this case, Apple's found their niche--and good on them for it. The niche of all other computer companies--HP, Compaq, Dell, Acer--is to sell computers to the entirety of the world's population that wants them. Good for them too. Looking on it this way, I can see why Mac is likely going to come down on Quo like a iron on a blind, infant rat.

    Yeah, but think of the long term potential. Once Apple locks you in, you're conditioned (for the most part) to their products for life. You'll buy an iMac or a PowerPC (?) for your family computer, an iPhone for your cell/PDA, and your kids will get MacBooks when they in turn head out to college.

    I think that's Apple's game plan, playing the long game. Any change towards becoming a mainstream product would destroy their brand image, and Apple just couldn't compete down in the mud with HP, Dell and the various and sundry other computer middlemen.

    Robman on
  • useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    I think the point is that their hardware is no more special than the next computer, apart from formfactor. They don't cast a magic spell at the factory to somehow make Apple branded computers more capable of running the OS than any other machine built from the same parts. And since those parts are largely available off-the-shelf for half the price I think it's pretty reasonable to want a cheaper machine running the same OS, just as one might choose a Dell instead of a Sony.

    Form factor is really just a small part of it. Apple supports their hardware and software together in a package. This is the key factor in how they win over many of their customers. Most technical issues associated with PC's become very simple with the Mac because of the limited hardware configurations.

    This is probably also why they limit their models and eliminated mid-range. To compete with the mid-range market they would constantly be forced to offer different hardware configurations and start squeezing on price to stay competitive. This makes troubleshooting more difficult because customized boxes will always have more unpredictable issues. Basically, why offer a bunch of oddball hardware half-assed support when you can offer a few pieces of hardware exceptional hardware support?

    This is why they choose to offer a few high end all in one packages. This way all your base hardware is Apple brand and therefore directly supportable by Apple. This is EXPECTED by apple customers. This is why you see leopard running smoothly on 8 year old macs. The hardware is supported. Not a lot of 8 year old PC's running vista (though I'm sure its possible) It's also easier to draw the line where that support ends. (All macs with a 867MHz or faster processor)

    The other issue is competition. Almost all PC makers compete on price. Apple chose to avoid this path by instead competing with aesthetics. Basically, you get the same hardware but in a very compact and high quality package. This is of course much more expensive because it requires a lot more engineering than simply tossing a bunch of parts into a standard case.

    On top of that you have things like EFI, which replaces BIOS, plus highly integrated thermal management system. Even the Video bios is non-standard but still includes some legacy support (for bootcamp)

    Your Chip sets, CPU's, DVD drives, LCD's, RAM... yeah totally off the shelf.
    Logic boards, firmware, form factor... Totally custom.

    Basically, what I'm saying is that the only way for Apple to give its computers exceptional ease of use and support (eliminating driver issues, etc..) is to somehow force its customers to buy all the hardware from them. The only way for Apple to make its customers buy all the hardware from them is to cram it into a really small, expensive, and aesthetically pleasing package. This makes their computers expensive, but also appealing.

    Don't use logic in a fan boy war. I do like your post... but there is nothing small or aesthetically pleasing about my mac pros... they do however have four nice drive bays! I wish they would have made them screwless like on the g5s though.

    The best example of apple logic is this:
    I want to start a multimedia production company...
    I have a couple mac pros and Logic Studio and a Firepod for audio in and out.
    Now I want to add final cut studio...

    I don't have to look to see if it's compatible, I just know it's going to work.

    It took me fifteen years of windows and alt os's (I have commercially bought audio tools for BeOS for example) to realize that given any other configurations I would take a Mac Pro with Apple produced products without pause or hesitations. Because out of the box I am 99% sure it will work.

    I don't have enough time in life to mess with drivers. Same reason I have a PS3 and Xbox 360, buying that game is expensive if I have to seriously consider upgrading a video card every couple of months.

    useless4 on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    plus highly integrated thermal management system. Even the Video bios is non-standard but still includes some legacy support (for bootcamp)

    Your Chip sets, CPU's, DVD drives, LCD's, RAM... yeah totally off the shelf.
    Logic boards, firmware, form factor... Totally custom.
    I don't have a problem with most of your post but, while the thermal management might be well integrated its still absolute shit, the videocards and processors in mac laptops run very, very near their highest rated operating temperatures, which decreases the lifespan of the parts. And the only reason the videocard firmware is nonstandard is so that end users can't just pop in any card they want, it offers no benefits.

    Aluminum conducts heat really well. I'm not surprised mac books are burning peoples laps. The top of my aluminum iMac usually gets really hot. It's quiet however and the core temps sit at about or below 40c. I think notebook CPU's have a higher thermal threshold. They can run beyond 90c. That's the next thing Apple needs to engineer... A better cooling solution.

    The video card firmware actually needs to be different to be compatible with EFI, which I believe is actually a standard developed by Intel. Video card drivers are also custom. A graphics card in a mac actually preforms very differently compared to a PC. With drivers being closed source... who really knows whats going on with that? Having built hackintoshes myself I can see why Apple keeps tight control over graphics. If people were swapping in any GPU they wanted there would be LOTS of problems. Apple machines are VERY dependent on graphics. They need to be stable.

    I'd say the value of a Mac is more geared towards software and support than aesthetics. It's supposed to be a high end experience all around. That's why a lot of people buy them.

    lilB on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    useless4 wrote: »
    there is nothing small or aesthetically pleasing about my mac pros...


    Haha... true :P That's the exception. Mac pro's take the PC/workstation market head on. That's a contest of power.

    lilB on
  • useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Seriously they get around burning people's laps by saying they are not laptops but notebooks.

    Macbook Pros get stupid hot.

    useless4 on
  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited June 2009
    useless4 wrote: »
    Seriously they get around burning people's laps by saying they are not laptops but notebooks.

    Macbook Pros get stupid hot.

    My Macbook pro heats up to like 190f on the bottom, and I took it to an apple store and they said, "I guess it seems a little warm".
    It is one of the only things I hate about my macbook pro.

    darkenedwing on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    You could torture a dude by placing a full load Macbook Pro on his dick

    Obs on
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  • darkenedwingdarkenedwing Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    You could torture a dude by placing a full load Macbook Pro on his dick

    Im surprised my computer isn't melted since i've played WoW on it for almost 38 days over the past year and its always between 190-200f when im playing.
    20090130.jpg

    darkenedwing on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    You could torture a dude by placing a full load Macbook Pro on his dick

    Im surprised my computer isn't melted since i've played WoW on it for almost 38 days over the past year and its always between 190-200f when im playing.
    20090130.jpg

    Because it isn't shitty plastic?

    Obs on
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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    You could torture a dude by placing a full load Macbook Pro on his dick

    Im surprised my computer isn't melted since i've played WoW on it for almost 38 days over the past year and its always between 190-200f when im playing.
    20090130.jpg

    Because it isn't shitty plastic?

    You're always so angry Obs, calm the fuck down.

    Darmak on
    CRVUyQp.png
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Because it isn't shitty plastic?

    I wish my Macbook wasn't made out of shitty plastic.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    You could torture a dude by placing a full load Macbook Pro on his dick

    Im surprised my computer isn't melted since i've played WoW on it for almost 38 days over the past year and its always between 190-200f when im playing.
    20090130.jpg

    Because it isn't shitty plastic?

    Shitty plastic that would allow the fans to blow the heat out the side instead of baking your balls? Goddamn what a stupid idea.

    Robman on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    A device really looses any advantage of form factor when it begins to rely on accessories. Even more importantly, when form factor gets in the way of using the device comfortably like those macs and penis paninis. Those laptop fan kits add an extra inch and when your laptop practically requires you to use one, you cannot boast about how sleek or thin it is, I'm sorry but that is BS.

    Same thing with any device though. Cellphones, mp3 players. If shit requires a case because it is too fragile, you cannot boast about how thin it is. Period. :|

    Lucky Cynic on
  • FatsFats Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Because it isn't shitty plastic?

    A bit of "shitty" plastic on the bottom would really help with the melting genitalia situation. Or maybe a nice ceramic coating. Or carbon fiber! Carbon fiber laptop, mmm.

    Edit: No, an Aerogel laptop!

    Fats on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    As fun as discussing melting balls is... Getting back on topic I would think a company like Quo will have lots of trouble. The Mac ecosystem isn't simply limited to OSX, and simply forcing it onto PC hardware is no real solution. Apple tried this. There were lots of problems and the platform suffered for it. Maybe Quo may have limited sucsess in the short term but you're loosing the hardware and software support that drives the Mac platform. If PC makers want a real solution they should colaberate on their own OS. I mean look at what free systems like ubuntu have accomplished.

    lilB on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    As fun as discussing melting balls is... Getting back on topic I would think a company like Quo will have lots of trouble. The Mac ecosystem isn't simply limited to OSX, and simply forcing it onto PC hardware is no real solution. Apple tried this. There were lots of problems and the platform suffered for it. Maybe Quo may have limited sucsess in the short term but you're loosing the hardware and software support that drives the Mac platform. If PC makers want a real solution they should colaberate on their own OS. I mean look at what free systems like ubuntu have accomplished.

    When you say 'Apple tried this', are you talking about the clone fiasco? Because while the clones were killing off apple, they were also pretty slick machines and it's hard to say the platform suffered for it. The platform got faster and cheaper. Like, WAY faster and WAY cheaper. The only 'problems' I remember the clones having were the model with a CD-ROM tray that was covered by a vertically sliding door (not really a great case idea, period) and a vendor patch you had to install on one model after Apple had released a system update.

    Or are you talking about Rhapsody (the first Mac OS with an x86 port) ? Because Rhapsody also worked just fine, it just wasn't seen as economically viable to take on MS with x86 hardware (as it turned out, it's considerably more viable than licensing some clones) so the x86 version (dc2?) got axed.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    First of all, you're not supposed to even put lesser laptops on your lap either. It's bad for your semen and your testicles.

    That said, a laptop will get hot no matter where the exhaust is.

    Obs on
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  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    As fun as discussing melting balls is... Getting back on topic I would think a company like Quo will have lots of trouble. The Mac ecosystem isn't simply limited to OSX, and simply forcing it onto PC hardware is no real solution. Apple tried this. There were lots of problems and the platform suffered for it. Maybe Quo may have limited sucsess in the short term but you're loosing the hardware and software support that drives the Mac platform. If PC makers want a real solution they should colaberate on their own OS. I mean look at what free systems like ubuntu have accomplished.

    When you say 'Apple tried this', are you talking about the clone fiasco? Because while the clones were killing off apple, they were also pretty slick machines and it's hard to say the platform suffered for it. The platform got faster and cheaper. Like, WAY faster and WAY cheaper. The only 'problems' I remember the clones having were the model with a CD-ROM tray that was covered by a vertically sliding door (not really a great case idea, period) and a vendor patch you had to install on one model after Apple had released a system update.

    Or are you talking about Rhapsody (the first Mac OS with an x86 port) ? Because Rhapsody also worked just fine, it just wasn't seen as economically viable to take on MS with x86 hardware (as it turned out, it's considerably more viable than licensing some clones) so the x86 version (dc2?) got axed.

    Either...

    Well, some of the Macs at the time were terrible machines. Yeah some of the clones were faster or better in some ways, but both Apple and the clone makers were all loosing money. Trying to take the PC head on was a terrible strategy. Apple almost collapsed as a company. In the end it was the iMac that finally made Apple profitable again and that was considered a 'budget' machine.

    As for switching to x86... well, PC's back then had a lot of problems that they don't have today. PowerPC had some big advantages however modern x86 has basically surpassed it. Also, platforms themselves have become much less relevant.

    lilB on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    First of all, you're not supposed to even put lesser laptops on your lap either. It's bad for your semen and your testicles.

    That said, a laptop will get hot no matter where the exhaust is.

    And even hotter if you make them out of aluminum. Aluminum conducts heat really well. Basically, you might as well be putting the CPU itself directly on your lap. The outside will be just as hot as the inside. At least plastic insulates a little.

    lilB on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    First of all, you're not supposed to even put lesser laptops on your lap either. It's bad for your semen and your testicles.

    That said, a laptop will get hot no matter where the exhaust is.

    And even hotter if you make them out of aluminum. Aluminum conducts heat really well. Basically, you might as well be putting the CPU itself directly on your lap. The outside will be just as hot as the inside. At least plastic insulates a little.

    Surely heat is better being conducted out of the case than being insulated inside the case?

    This G4 Powerbook I'm using is pretty hot underneath, but it's also completely silent. Yay passive cooling?

    Obs is a moron, but he's right. You shouldn't use any 'laptop' on your lap. It's a misnomer. Even plastic laptops with fans cooling them can cause problems for you and the laptop if placed on your lap (I had an Acer laptop that depsite a fan working over time would overheat and shut down if it was placed on anything except a desk). Overheating, sperm count reduction, in severe cases burns, physical damage to the laptop from leaning on it when it isn't on a firm, flat surface.

    Laptops in general just aren't designed for being used on your lap.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Heat flows through the path of least resistance. With a layer of aluminum between you and the CPU heat sink, your leg becomes heat dump #1 for the CPU waste heat. With a layer of insulating plastic, I think you would find (not 100% on this) that while the bottom will get warm (or even hot) the primary heat dump is still the air. Your body can only dissipate so much energy so quickly from a local hotspot, so reducing the heat by a small margin might mean the difference between a warm-feeling equilibrium and a burn.

    Robman on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Laptops in general just aren't designed for being used on your lap.

    Which is precisely why the whole industry has moved away from the term. :)

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    Laptops in general just aren't designed for being used on your lap.

    Which is precisely why the whole industry has moved away from the term. :)

    Exactly.

    The portable computers of the future will all be suspended on nets, providing near 100% airflow on the under surface. Hence the adoption of the term netbook.


    Did I over explain the punchline there?

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    no it was fine

    Big Red Tie on
    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • SeeksSeeks Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    First of all, you're not supposed to even put lesser laptops on your lap either. It's bad for your semen and your testicles.

    That said, a laptop will get hot no matter where the exhaust is.

    And even hotter if you make them out of aluminum. Aluminum conducts heat really well. Basically, you might as well be putting the CPU itself directly on your lap. The outside will be just as hot as the inside. At least plastic insulates a little.

    Surely heat is better being conducted out of the case than being insulated inside the case?

    This G4 Powerbook I'm using is pretty hot underneath, but it's also completely silent. Yay passive cooling?

    Obs is a moron, but he's right. You shouldn't use any 'laptop' on your lap. It's a misnomer. Even plastic laptops with fans cooling them can cause problems for you and the laptop if placed on your lap (I had an Acer laptop that depsite a fan working over time would overheat and shut down if it was placed on anything except a desk). Overheating, sperm count reduction, in severe cases burns, physical damage to the laptop from leaning on it when it isn't on a firm, flat surface.

    Laptops in general just aren't designed for being used on your lap.


    Man, you guys have some hot-ass laptops. I use mine in my lap all the time, I never have a problem at all unless it's at a full load. Even then, it's only a little warm.

    Though it is a bit noisy.

    Seeks on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    do you have one of the new aluminum macbook/pros
    if so that is amazing because every time i use it it is pretty searingly hot (it is on a table though)

    Big Red Tie on
    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
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