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Quo - Cloning Macs starting June 1

1235»

Posts

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    I don't think you're understanding mcdermott's position. He wants a Mac Pro, essentially, only with a CPU that's not ridiculously expensive. It doesn't make any sense when you actually look at the loadout. The 2.6 Nehalem retails for almost $1200. Judging by the cost to upgrade from 640 to 1000GB, Apple's markup must be at least double. You end up with a $3000 computer with a 640GB hard drive and 3 gigs of RAM. Who actually needs that much CPU power, what could they possibly be doing that fits on a 640GB hard drive, and why do they think 3 gigs of RAM is even close to enough? Furthermore, are they fucking nuts?

    "But I do super serious work, so I need a super serious computer to do it with." That's bullshit. Whatever it is that you do, I'm not convinced it's any more "serious" than what I do with a dusty, 3-year-old Athlon. The Pro is a niche product, plain and simple. Most people don't need a $1000 server chip to do "serious work". Intel offers consumer-market chips packing incredible amounts of power for a fraction of the cost, but for some reason Apple does not offer an affordable Core 2 Quad or i7 desktop.

    Tons of people want to do "serious work" with their computers, and hunger for the ease and simplicity of a Mac. Apple wants them to choose between a laptop on a stand and an overpriced, low-end editing workstation. The market for an economical, well-balanced workhorse desktop, especially one that's as reliable and usable as an Apple, is a lot bigger than you think.

    Also I am fucking baffled by that "powers of good" comment, like what

    I had never really thought about how absurd the Xeon really was in the base-model Mac Pro. Pairing a $1K+ processor with 3GB of ram and a 640GB hard drive? Priceless. Yet more evidence that the only reason Mac Pros start with the Xeon, and don't offer any "consumer" processors (C2Q/i7), is because they can get more markup on the processor that way. Not because they're "serious tools" for "serious business." Or, alternately, because by not offering anything more powerful than a Mini without an integrated monitor they can "force" people to buy tons upon tons of their monitors (integrated into the iMacs) who might otherwise have gotten something cheaper or "recycled" an old one.

    And it's not like the lack of a midrage desktop is some sort of new thing I just made up...this is a criticism that has been floating around for years. Apple simply does not make a consumer desktop. And it's pretty obvious this is intentional, because doing so would (from what I can tell) involve merely dropping the cheapest i7 ($280 on NewEgg) into the processor slot of their current Mac Pros, and knocking $500-$750 off the price.

    EDIT: And this relates to the OP because, from what I can tell, this is the exact hole in their product line that this Quo Computer company (assuming they ever manage to make/sell a product) is looking to profit from.

    mcdermott on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Just to be clear: there is almost no difference between the Xeon CPU in the 1 CPU Mac Pro and the same clocked i7. Both will be outclassed for consumer use by the upcoming i5 since that can provide better single/dual core performance via Turbo Mode or whatever Intel calls it.

    The Xeon that is used in 2 CPU boxes is more advanced from what I remember.

    Do we think that apple will come out with an i5 box?

    lowlylowlycook on
    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited June 2009
    Moioink wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    Moioink wrote: »
    I adore Macs, I don't see myself going back to Windows anytime soon. I adore the form factor of the iMac and OS X has been very good to me (only two KPs in 3.5 years), I think you get what you pay for.

    That said there are clear gaps in Apple's product range and if a clone manufacturer can fill that in without being sued then more power to them. If there was a company that sold re-packaged netbooks that I could easily install Leopard on I would probably be interested. A clone is not nearly as ideal as if Apple made an affordable tower or a netbook but until they do these clones are the next best thing. If Apple want to be stubborn and consistently ignore these very popular types of computer then frankly I support clone makers responding to this market need. I don't think they're taking business away from Apple if Apple aren't making that type of computer and if it means more OS X wholesale purchases from these clone makers then that's more money for Apple.

    As always caveat emptor though.

    Wasn't the Dell Mini 9 the perfect netbook for OSX? A friend of mine got one just to install OSX on it. Gizmodo

    Thank you for the link! That's a lot of steps to take but it shouldn't take longer than an evening to sort out.

    I still can't get my head round why Apple don't do netbooks. I think they'd sell millions of them.

    I'm highly considering getting a netbook. I wouldn't install OS X on it to use for day-to-day usage as I've already got a Mac notebook and my sexy, sexy iMac, but is the Mini 9 still the best to try this out on or has something else newer and better come out in the meantime?

    It works pretty well on the Asus EEE 1000HE as well, just needs a few hacks to get the sound working.

    Unknown User on
  • Monolithic_DomeMonolithic_Dome Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    useless4 wrote: »
    I hope they sell a million of them and apple bricks them remotely the very next day.
    Seriously. Apple has the right to protect their interest.
    OSX is their interest.

    I don't really have skin in this game (not in the market for a new PC right now), but...

    wow...

    you're kind of a douche.

    Monolithic_Dome on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    useless4 wrote: »
    I hope they sell a million of them and apple bricks them remotely the very next day.
    Seriously. Apple has the right to protect their interest.
    OSX is their interest.

    I don't really have skin in this game (not in the market for a new PC right now), but...

    wow...

    you're kind of a douche.

    "Kind of" nothing.

    I like Windows. But by God, I'm not going to say "I hope Microsoft somehow magically get the power to cause every OEM installation of Windows XP/Vista on a system it was not intended for to cause said computer to explode in the users face."

    If I ever do say this, someone shoot me in the face.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    That's just what I need, dozens of wires sticking out of my notebook and all my data on hugely overpriced external hard drives running at 480Mbps peak, where do I sign up

    So you agree then that the laptop still has fewer wires coming out of the back of it than the desktop and is still more versatile though, right? I just checked the prices of decent WD internal hard drives, 2x1TB hard drives runs about $200, the WD 2TB external with FW, USB and eSATA runs like $280. If you're less picky about brand/interface selection, you can get that much space for $200. That, combined with the versatility that you get from an external hard drive, makes a reasonable argument in my opinion.

    And of the potential uses I can imagine for 2 TB of storage, none of them involve running applications. USB 2.0 is still fast enough to stream audio or video off of, and you're not gonna see huge improvements accessing files from IDE vs. USB 2.0 when opening documents or the like either. Of course, that ignores the presence of both FW400 and FW800 on that drive, and all of the drives with eSATA (which ain't any slower than SATA).
    I understand what you're saying here, but I really think you're wrong about desktops being "relegated" to a "niche". From a utilitarian standpoint they present the best value,

    Depending on how you define value, for many people size, convenience and versatility enter the argument.
    they have the most capability,

    and yet netbooks are a quickly growing segment as most people realize that they really don't need much power to visit facebook and send e-mail. The ability to encode video, run a large database or play cutting edge videogames is a niche one when compared to the rest of the consumer market's use of computers.
    they hold more data,

    I've digitized my entire CD collection at VBR 0 MP3s and it takes up a little more than 100 GB. And I own way, way more music than almost anyone I know. Entry level laptops are now coming with 200GB drives in them. This is again a niche need.
    their design makes them more convenient and comfortable for desks and workspaces.

    I'm pretty sure I was pretty clear on not expecting them to leave the corporate office. At home however, I like to sit back in my couch, put my feet up and use my laptop on my lap. That doesn't work so much with a desktop.
    I don't think they're any less attractive to consumers than they were 10 years ago.

    Yes, but reality really thinks you're wrong. Notebooks are a faster growing segment and now comprise more of the market in sales per year. This is not a trend that will ever reverse itself. And to the other comment relating to whether notebooks would continue to eat further into desktop sales, I'm saying that they will because most people don't replace a computer more often than once every 5 years or so.

    Lots of folks who bought big clunky desktops 5 or 10 years ago will be entering the market again and laptops are way cheaper now than they were 5 years ago. Netbooks weren't even around 5 years ago the way they are now. Most people don't need a desktop anymore.

    Pheezer on
    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    OSX is their interest.

    Not really. iPhones and iTunes is their interest.

    Before Apple got into the music business, they were in trouble. From all reasonable accounts I've ever read, including those from die hard lifelong Apple zealots, Apple serves up its computer hardware offerings only as lip service to the company's history, and to serve as a node in the entertainment sphere they are trying to generate like Apple TV and the iTunes.


    I cannot imagine that the hardware/OSX side of the business is meaningfully profitable, if at all. Yes, they do markup their hardware a lot, but that's probably to contend with the cost of meticulously hand crafting every iteration of their lineup from end to end, and less on putting them in the black.

    Apple is a media company. The computers are incidental.

    I would surmise that the reason they try to keep OSX under wraps is

    1) Making it generally available for all hardware makes it less appealing (think Grey Poupon).
    2) Making it generally available will force them to contend with all the shit Microsoft has been battling for over a decade with exponentially increasing hardware/driver configurations to support, which would obliterate its performance/stability reputation.
    3) Make it a target for hackers, which it really isn't yet.

    In short, it's reputation motivated, and the fact that it might sell a few boxes on its own merits is just a side bonus.

    They could make way more money if they just sold OSX to anyone and everyone, so the idea that it's profit driven alone simply cannot hold water.

    You can buy Grey Poupon in any grocery store. I know it's off topic, but Grey Poupon isn't a hard to fine mustard nor a particularly good mustard. It's the Glenfiddich of Dijons.

    Robman on
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Yea. I know I'm in a niche market. I have about 3.5TB of Hard drive space in my desktop, and about 2.5TB of it is used. Lots of video and software. And hell, every week, more and more of it is legal. I play games, and when I want to do some video processing I like the fact that my desktop is powerful enough to do a job in 20 min what my friend's laptop takes 80 to do. It's really nice. I enjoy having that flexibility.

    However, I am a niche. most people's computer use now involves pictures, music, some video, tooling around on the internet, not much more. As long as they have enough disk to store what they have, and the computer is fast enough to watch the videos they watch without problems, it doesn't matter.

    I own a desktop, and a notebook. I don't *need* a notebook, but it's convenient. For what I do, I *need* a desktop computer. However, the majority of the population is just fine with a notebook, and that's why the majority of computers shipped and bought now are notebooks.

    wunderbar on
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  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Netbooks will take off when they start subsidizing them. Wireless providers want a slice of that Internet pie. From what I can tell, the plan is to cram 3G radios into the things. They will sell them like cellphones, giving away the hardware and charging for a monthly plan. Also, netbooks are getting bigger. They will probably find a happy medium between where they are now and full sized laptops. In the end, price and convenience are the key factors.

    lilB on
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Netbooks will take off when they start subsidizing them. Wireless providers want a slice of that Internet pie. From what I can tell, the plan is to cram 3G radios into the things. They will sell them like cellphones, giving away the hardware and charging for a monthly plan. Also, netbooks are getting bigger. They will probably find a happy medium between where they are now and full sized laptops. In the end, price and convenience are the key factors.

    You mean like Verizon is doing and advertising on TV right now?

    ArcSyn on
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  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Yeah except the price is much too high right now for it to work. 250mb data plan? Gimme a break my iphone has a better data plan than that. Wireless Internet plans have to get a little faster and a little cheaper before people will buy into it. The current infastructure just doesn't cut it.

    lilB on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Yeah except the price is much too high right now for it to work. 250mb data plan? Gimme a break my iphone has a better data plan than that. Wireless Internet plans have to get a little faster and a little cheaper before people will buy into it. The current infrastructure just doesn't cut it.

    250mb is laughable with how much data people pass every day. The whole white spaces when digital tv comes into full service will be interesting to see how things work out.

    Getting back on topic. Apple has some serious holes in their product lineup, It is not a matter of if but when these clones actually take hold. I would say more power to the clone makers because that can drive apples stupid prices down.

    Viscountalpha on
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    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
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  • bashbash Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    OSX is their interest.

    Not really. iPhones and iTunes is their interest.

    Before Apple got into the music business, they were in trouble. From all reasonable accounts I've ever read, including those from die hard lifelong Apple zealots, Apple serves up its computer hardware offerings only as lip service to the company's history, and to serve as a node in the entertainment sphere they are trying to generate like Apple TV and the iTunes.


    I cannot imagine that the hardware/OSX side of the business is meaningfully profitable, if at all. Yes, they do markup their hardware a lot, but that's probably to contend with the cost of meticulously hand crafting every iteration of their lineup from end to end, and less on putting them in the black.

    Apple is a media company. The computers are incidental.

    I would surmise that the reason they try to keep OSX under wraps is

    1) Making it generally available for all hardware makes it less appealing (think Grey Poupon).
    2) Making it generally available will force them to contend with all the shit Microsoft has been battling for over a decade with exponentially increasing hardware/driver configurations to support, which would obliterate its performance/stability reputation.
    3) Make it a target for hackers, which it really isn't yet.

    In short, it's reputation motivated, and the fact that it might sell a few boxes on its own merits is just a side bonus.

    They could make way more money if they just sold OSX to anyone and everyone, so the idea that it's profit driven alone simply cannot hold water.

    Hi, you don't have any idea what the fuck you're talking about. None of this shit makes even the remotest amount of sense.

    1) The average margin on Macs sold is around 25% which is higher than the margins of just about any other consumer computer company. Mac sales revenue is three times higher than that of the iTunes Store (which includes app and music sales). To suggest this is a segment of the company that doesn't make money is misinformed at best and ludicrous at worst.

    2) Apple makes products people buy and happen to sell media files to go on those devices. This does not make them a media company. They just resell content that other companies produce and don't really make any of their own. The iTunes Store exists as an enticement for iPod and iPhone customers. Apple's an Apple product company, neither a description of being a hardware or software company truly fits because their actual products are combinations of both things.

    3) In order for OSX profit to equal that of Mac profit sales of the OS would have to roughly triple the sales of actual Mac hardware. Last year Apple sold nearly 10m Macs, in order to make the same amount of money selling OSX for PCs they would need to push 30 million copies in a year. There's nothing magical about run of the mill PCs that would make third party hardware vendors or software developers suddenly start targeting OSX for development. That 30 million copies would need to be sold with roughly today's amount of hardware and software support. If your cheapo HP scanner doesn't have OSX drivers today it wouldn't suddenly have OSX drivers if OSX was available for PCs. The OSX install base is tens of millions of units already and some companies don't bother with software or driver support.

    TLDR; you don't seem to know your ass from a hole in the ground.

    bash on
    comi-sig1.jpg
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Yeah except the price is much too high right now for it to work. 250mb data plan? Gimme a break my iphone has a better data plan than that. Wireless Internet plans have to get a little faster and a little cheaper before people will buy into it. The current infrastructure just doesn't cut it.

    250mb is laughable with how much data people pass every day. The whole white spaces when digital tv comes into full service will be interesting to see how things work out.

    Getting back on topic. Apple has some serious holes in their product lineup, It is not a matter of if but when these clones actually take hold. I would say more power to the clone makers because that can drive apples stupid prices down.

    It's a $40/mo 250MB plan, or $60/mo 5GB plan. And it's pretty standard to have limits on data plans for devices that are more likely to massively use data, versus something that you probably are not going to sit on all day like the iPhone.

    ArcSyn on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So, any news about Quo? They still in business?

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    bash wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    OSX is their interest.

    Not really. iPhones and iTunes is their interest.

    Before Apple got into the music business, they were in trouble. From all reasonable accounts I've ever read, including those from die hard lifelong Apple zealots, Apple serves up its computer hardware offerings only as lip service to the company's history, and to serve as a node in the entertainment sphere they are trying to generate like Apple TV and the iTunes.


    I cannot imagine that the hardware/OSX side of the business is meaningfully profitable, if at all. Yes, they do markup their hardware a lot, but that's probably to contend with the cost of meticulously hand crafting every iteration of their lineup from end to end, and less on putting them in the black.

    Apple is a media company. The computers are incidental.

    I would surmise that the reason they try to keep OSX under wraps is

    1) Making it generally available for all hardware makes it less appealing (think Grey Poupon).
    2) Making it generally available will force them to contend with all the shit Microsoft has been battling for over a decade with exponentially increasing hardware/driver configurations to support, which would obliterate its performance/stability reputation.
    3) Make it a target for hackers, which it really isn't yet.

    In short, it's reputation motivated, and the fact that it might sell a few boxes on its own merits is just a side bonus.

    They could make way more money if they just sold OSX to anyone and everyone, so the idea that it's profit driven alone simply cannot hold water.

    Hi, you don't have any idea what the fuck you're talking about. None of this shit makes even the remotest amount of sense.

    1) The average margin on Macs sold is around 25% which is higher than the margins of just about any other consumer computer company. Mac sales revenue is three times higher than that of the iTunes Store (which includes app and music sales). To suggest this is a segment of the company that doesn't make money is misinformed at best and ludicrous at worst.

    2) Apple makes products people buy and happen to sell media files to go on those devices. This does not make them a media company. They just resell content that other companies produce and don't really make any of their own. The iTunes Store exists as an enticement for iPod and iPhone customers. Apple's an Apple product company, neither a description of being a hardware or software company truly fits because their actual products are combinations of both things.

    3) In order for OSX profit to equal that of Mac profit sales of the OS would have to roughly triple the sales of actual Mac hardware. Last year Apple sold nearly 10m Macs, in order to make the same amount of money selling OSX for PCs they would need to push 30 million copies in a year. There's nothing magical about run of the mill PCs that would make third party hardware vendors or software developers suddenly start targeting OSX for development. That 30 million copies would need to be sold with roughly today's amount of hardware and software support. If your cheapo HP scanner doesn't have OSX drivers today it wouldn't suddenly have OSX drivers if OSX was available for PCs. The OSX install base is tens of millions of units already and some companies don't bother with software or driver support.

    TLDR; you don't seem to know your ass from a hole in the ground.

    Hahaha... actually my cheap HP scanner works with leopard but not with vista :P

    Also, it was the iMac that really saved Apple because it targeted what was the lower end consumer market at the time. They sold so many of those things... PC prices started to really fall hard after that. iMacs have basically stayed at around the same price point, though Apple has introduced more expensive higher end models to that lineup over time.

    Then the iPod came out and continued to save Apple. iTunes only became big later on (with the windows version)

    Truth is though that there is little money to be made from consumer OS sales. Look at how expensive Windows is right now. The only way to make money in that market is through volume.

    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    On a PC it can become much more complicated. Some software doesn't work with some hardware and some programs crash with certain drivers. If you slap OSX on regular PC hardware, your not building a Mac... your building a PC with OSX on it and there is a good chance you will have problems.

    Sure, Quo could work out some of these issues and get things stable... but could you ever be 100% sure that your hardware will be supported with the next version of OSX?

    lilB on
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    This really gets my goat, what in the world do people think happens when a pc is first turned on? An explosion? A PC "just works" as well. The myth that an ordinary user cannot use a pc without encountering issues just isn't true today, and probably never was.

    Apple keeps the mac price high because it knows there are people out there that will pay the extra. Not because they are better than the competition (see also: Starbucks).

    Mc zany on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Mc zany wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    This really gets my goat, what in the world do people think happens when a pc is first turned on? An explosion? A PC "just works" as well. The myth that an ordinary user cannot use a pc without encountering issues just isn't true today, and probably never was.

    Apple keeps the mac price high because it knows there are people out there that will pay the extra. Not because they are better than the competition (see also: Starbucks).

    i didn't say it doesn't work. Your right. When a PC is set up properly it works... obviously. I just said that there is a higher probability of compatibility issues. Don't believe me? Ask all the people who could not get vista to work. The point I was trying to make was that what Quo is trying to do, doesn't make a PC into a Mac. You still have the issue of drivers and hardware support, a problem PC's will always have regardless of operating systems.

    lilB on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Mc zany wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    This really gets my goat, what in the world do people think happens when a pc is first turned on? An explosion? A PC "just works" as well. The myth that an ordinary user cannot use a pc without encountering issues just isn't true today, and probably never was.

    Apple keeps the mac price high because it knows there are people out there that will pay the extra. Not because they are better than the competition (see also: Starbucks).

    i didn't say it doesn't work. Your right. When a PC is set up properly it works... obviously. I just said that there is a higher probability of compatibility issues. Don't believe me? Ask all the people who could not get vista to work. The point I was trying to make was that what Quo is trying to do, doesn't make a PC into a Mac. You still have the issue of drivers, a problem PC's will always have regardless of operating systems.

    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    Robman on
  • lilBlilB Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Robman wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mc zany wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    This really gets my goat, what in the world do people think happens when a pc is first turned on? An explosion? A PC "just works" as well. The myth that an ordinary user cannot use a pc without encountering issues just isn't true today, and probably never was.

    Apple keeps the mac price high because it knows there are people out there that will pay the extra. Not because they are better than the competition (see also: Starbucks).

    i didn't say it doesn't work. Your right. When a PC is set up properly it works... obviously. I just said that there is a higher probability of compatibility issues. Don't believe me? Ask all the people who could not get vista to work. The point I was trying to make was that what Quo is trying to do, doesn't make a PC into a Mac. You still have the issue of drivers, a problem PC's will always have regardless of operating systems.

    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    Have you been living under a rock?
    Go to youtube and type in Vista.... listen to all the bitching about how shitty vista is...

    I like this snippet from Wikipedia that really sums it all up....

    " ...lack of an appropriate graphics chip so hobbled Vista features that vice president Mike Nash (Corporate Vice President, Windows Product Management) commented 'I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine.' "

    I'm happy your Vista install worked out so well, but I was not talking about brand new hardware. I was talking about upgrading software on slightly older hardware.

    To answer your question, they are mostly people who don't know how to build their own PC from scratch.

    lilB on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Robman wrote: »
    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    There's your problem: you built you own computer. :) Most people's first (and only?) encounter with Vista is going to be on an OEM machine that is undoubtedly loaded with a bunch of crap software they don't really want or even know the function of. Clean Vista installs seem to run so much better than most OEM images I've had the pleasure of dealing with. It's less of an issue now, but far too many of these systems also simply lack the horsepower to run Vista well (lack of RAM mainly especially with lower end PCs).

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    lilB wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mc zany wrote: »
    lilB wrote: »
    Mac is not just software... It's a combination of hardware and software that is specifically designed to work well together, much like an XBOX or Playstation. When you run an application you really don't have to worry much about compatibility. You plug it in and go. This gives Mac it's distinction, enough so that it does not have to plummet in price with the rest of the PC market.

    This really gets my goat, what in the world do people think happens when a pc is first turned on? An explosion? A PC "just works" as well. The myth that an ordinary user cannot use a pc without encountering issues just isn't true today, and probably never was.

    Apple keeps the mac price high because it knows there are people out there that will pay the extra. Not because they are better than the competition (see also: Starbucks).

    i didn't say it doesn't work. Your right. When a PC is set up properly it works... obviously. I just said that there is a higher probability of compatibility issues. Don't believe me? Ask all the people who could not get vista to work. The point I was trying to make was that what Quo is trying to do, doesn't make a PC into a Mac. You still have the issue of drivers, a problem PC's will always have regardless of operating systems.

    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    Have you been living under a rock?
    Go to youtube and type in Vista.... listen to all the bitching about how shitty vista is...

    I like this snippet from Wikipedia that really sums it all up....

    " ...lack of an appropriate graphics chip so hobbled Vista features that vice president Mike Nash (Corporate Vice President, Windows Product Management) commented 'I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine.' "

    I'm happy your Vista install worked out so well, but I was not talking about brand new hardware. I was talking about upgrading software on slightly older hardware.

    To answer your question, they are mostly people who don't know how to build their own PC from scratch.

    Vista's launch just showed how fucking awful hardware companies are at making good drivers, and how dishonest the computer companies/box stores are about representing the true power of their low-end computer systems. That's it. I hope MS learned their lesson clearly and are taking a hard fucking line with the hardware people about releasing high quality, stable drivers.

    Robman on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    There's your problem: you built you own computer. :) Most people's first (and only?) encounter with Vista is going to be on an OEM machine that is undoubtedly loaded with a bunch of crap software they don't really want or even know the function of. Clean Vista installs seem to run so much better than most OEM images I've had the pleasure of dealing with. It's less of an issue now, but far too many of these systems also simply lack the horsepower to run Vista well (lack of RAM mainly especially with lower end PCs).

    Yeah that too, people just accept the horseshit that they get shoveled onto them from computer companies. With laptops you're usually hosed with custom drivers so that you have to accept the bundled shit, but otherwise I think it's cheaper, faster, and less head-ache inducing to take your shiny new desktop, completely format the drive, and install a clean out-of-box version of whatever OS you want.

    God I've spent hours cleaning the shit off a brand new HP or Dell machine.

    Robman on
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    There's your problem: you built you own computer. :) Most people's first (and only?) encounter with Vista is going to be on an OEM machine that is undoubtedly loaded with a bunch of crap software they don't really want or even know the function of. Clean Vista installs seem to run so much better than most OEM images I've had the pleasure of dealing with. It's less of an issue now, but far too many of these systems also simply lack the horsepower to run Vista well (lack of RAM mainly especially with lower end PCs).

    Yea, lets also not forget that when Vista first came out, they tried to shovel it into the specs of a $700 computer at the time. You have to remember that when people are shopping for a computer, 95% of them don't care about how much ram it has, or the processor, they only vaguely care about the Hard Drive space. They care about price. "I want the best I can get for the cheapest I can get it"

    When vista came out in 2006, a $700 PC was crap, and could barely run vista. in 2009, a $700 PC can run vista just fine. People have a very, very short memory with that. When XP came out, the *exact* same thing happened. XP's launch, while important in 2001, was also a complete disaster. cheaper PC's that could run 98SE and 2000 at the time couldn't run XP well at all, and there was a pretty fucking massive vulnerability discovered in the OS 2 weeks after launch. XP only really became a "good" OS after SP1. Don't forget the debacle that was SP2 either. Vista is actually leaps and bounds ahead of XP at the similar point of it's life cycle.

    But yet, Vista is so much worse than XP :rotate:

    wunderbar on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    wunderbar wrote: »
    RBach wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    Who are these people? I built a computer from scratch, installed vista on a blank drive, installed the drivers, and was done in an hour flat start to finish. No issues, no headaches, just clean install and a snazzy new OS.

    There's your problem: you built you own computer. :) Most people's first (and only?) encounter with Vista is going to be on an OEM machine that is undoubtedly loaded with a bunch of crap software they don't really want or even know the function of. Clean Vista installs seem to run so much better than most OEM images I've had the pleasure of dealing with. It's less of an issue now, but far too many of these systems also simply lack the horsepower to run Vista well (lack of RAM mainly especially with lower end PCs).

    Yea, lets also not forget that when Vista first came out, they tried to shovel it into the specs of a $700 computer at the time. You have to remember that when people are shopping for a computer, 95% of them don't care about how much ram it has, or the processor, they only vaguely care about the Hard Drive space. They care about price. "I want the best I can get for the cheapest I can get it"

    When vista came out in 2006, a $700 PC was crap, and could barely run vista. in 2009, a $700 PC can run vista just fine. People have a very, very short memory with that. When XP came out, the *exact* same thing happened. XP's launch, while important in 2001, was also a complete disaster. cheaper PC's that could run 98SE and 2000 at the time couldn't run XP well at all, and there was a pretty fucking massive vulnerability discovered in the OS 2 weeks after launch. XP only really became a "good" OS after SP1. Don't forget the debacle that was SP2 either. Vista is actually leaps and bounds ahead of XP at the similar point of it's life cycle.

    But yet, Vista is so much worse than XP :rotate:

    You've pretty much explained a portion of the problem: people will find anything to complain about, because they enjoy complaining. :rotate:

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Also hating on microsoft has been cool for longer then Nirvana

    Robman on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Robman wrote: »
    Also hating on microsoft has been cool for longer then Nirvana

    Well, of course.

    I remember back in the mid 1990s, when Apple was, well, increasingly irrelevant (and it would still be a few years before they returned to relevancy), the hate-on for Microsoft was still going strong. Throwing pies, books about how he was the Anti-Christ, etc.

    "Yes, yes! Let the hate flow through you!"

    Delicious, delicious hatred. I remember seeing English-language books about the planned geek revolution to overthrow Bill Gates in Taiwan, where there were a total of 3 non-IBM standard computers (Acer, baby! That's a government-supported monopoly!) at the time. That's probably down to two by now.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I remember in 1995 when Microsoft unfurled a fucking banner down the side of the goddamn CN TOWER for Windows 95. What the fuck. That's some corporate chutz-pah right there.

    Robman on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Robman wrote: »
    I remember in 1995 when Microsoft unfurled a fucking banner down the side of the goddamn CN TOWER for Windows 95. What the fuck. That's some corporate chutz-pah right there.

    Hence, all the hate.

    Good times, good times. The strong(er) economy meant for a sufficient hatred surplus for this sort of thing.

    Now, I see a commercial for the Apple Genius service, "Christ, who has the balls to actually name their employees 'geniuses'? Who has the big brass ones to actually make that claim? Pretty sure these motherfuckers didn't split the atom or finish their theory of everything...", but I can't bring myself to do anything about it. If I had any of the vitriolic hatred of the old times, I'd find an Apple store, take the eight hour drive to get to one, and deface one of those gigantic corporate insignias they keep in the lobby.

    But, me and my generation--we grew up to be rational, emotionally-distant, coldly-logical losers when it comes to this stuff. Hell, I barely rage when they show two of those "I'm a PC" commercials in the same commercial break on Comedy Central. Though now, we're a little off topic...

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I want to take my field analysis homework to them if they're geniuses. Grad courses for the lose. "hey kids, here's a classic unsolvable problem, I'm going to neglect to tell you that it's unsolvable, have fun"

    Robman on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    So, any news about Quo? They still in business?

    Their website's still up, no mention of a C&D.

    http://quocomputer.com/

    Their storefront doesn't exactly scream "Buy computers here!"

    2401-west-main-street-alhambra1.jpg

    BubbaT on
  • TrentusTrentus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Is there a way to check how recently the pic was taken?

    Trentus on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I dunno. That's the pic that comes up when you put their address into Google maps streetview.

    BubbaT on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    So, any news about Quo? They still in business?

    Their website's still up, no mention of a C&D.

    http://quocomputer.com/

    Their storefront doesn't exactly scream "Buy computers here!"

    Not everyone can have a PC retailer that looks suspiciously like the cosmetics section of a J.C. Penny in an American mall, complete with glass staircase and dividers.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Cold FusionCold Fusion Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    So, any news about Quo? They still in business?

    Their website's still up, no mention of a C&D.

    http://quocomputer.com/

    Their storefront doesn't exactly scream "Buy computers here!"

    Not everyone can have a PC retailer that looks suspiciously like the cosmetics section of a J.C. Penny in an American mall, complete with glass staircase and dividers.

    Yeah, that looks pretty common for most small custom pc shops.

    Cold Fusion on
    1309077-1.png
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Heh, if there's one piece of evidence that CLEARLY shows Apple's products are overpriced, it's that they built themselves a glass house to sell their wares.. It's just so odd.

    ArcSyn on
    jswidget.php?username=ArcSyn&numitems=5&header=0&text=none&images=small&show=recentplays&imagesonly=1&imagepos=center&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1og83npmjgeii.pngT298pV7.pngSteam:ArcSyn
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I went in the Vancouver Apple store the other day and I actually had to put my sunglasses back on because the walls were made of fucking brushed metal

    Azio on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    I went in the Vancouver Apple store the other day and I actually had to put my sunglasses back on because the walls were made of fucking brushed metal

    This is the part where someone, whom shall remain unnamed, comes forth and informs us philistines that brushed metal and glass walls will soon be an industry standard for PC retailers.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
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