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[Zeppel-On] The Saboteur: French star nipples and Nazi racing on Dec. 8

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    Chris FOMChris FOM Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seeing this thread at the top of the forums again inspired me to pick it back up after stopping back in January last year. It really hurts that we'll never see a sequel to this game.It's a ton of A-level ideas in a B-level game with some D-level bugs that really could have been something special if they'd been given another chance to work the kinks out. At it is, despite the glitches and parts that just don't work (1300+ things to blow up?), it's still a hell of a lot fun. A great game? No, but one that's incredibly enjoyable despite that.

    Chris FOM on
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    SammyF wrote: »
    Hey, the game was only BRL 29.90 on the Brazilian EA Store. GOT IT!

    Do they replace Sean with the protagonist from Just Cause for the Brazilian version?

    No, because Rico is not Brazilian?
    The only Brazilian game dude I know is one of the Far Cry 2 possible protagonist/buddies.

    Stormwatcher on
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    LTMLTM Bikes and BeardsRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Chris FOM wrote: »
    Seeing this thread at the top of the forums again inspired me to pick it back up after stopping back in January last year. It really hurts that we'll never see a sequel to this game.It's a ton of A-level ideas in a B-level game with some D-level bugs that really could have been something special if they'd been given another chance to work the kinks out. At it is, despite the glitches and parts that just don't work (1300+ things to blow up?), it's still a hell of a lot fun. A great game? No, but one that's incredibly enjoyable despite that.

    I absolutely love this game, despite the ending sort of leaving me "meh".

    I still have to finish all the ambient freeplay, though.

    LTM on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I have 1 save where there are no freeplay points left on the map. I literally blew up everything.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So should I try to do as much as possible the earliest possible, or should I move the story along fast to unlock the most activities/areas?

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So should I try to do as much as possible the earliest possible, or should I move the story along fast to unlock the most activities/areas?
    All the areas start unlocked. You just don't have transit papers for some of the, so you have to run blockades to get to them. And perks do the vast majority of the unlocking of things, with the silent SMG being the real exception.

    I would say to take it at your own pace. Run around destroying things and unlocking perks until it starts getting repetitive and then do a mission or two.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    So should I try to do as much as possible the earliest possible, or should I move the story along fast to unlock the most activities/areas?
    All the areas start unlocked. You just don't have transit papers for some of the, so you have to run blockades to get to them. And perks do the vast majority of the unlocking of things, with the silent SMG being the real exception.

    I would say to take it at your own pace. Run around destroying things and unlocking perks until it starts getting repetitive and then do a mission or two.

    so basically treat it like just cause 2 :P

    curly haired boy on
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    KlashKlash Lost... ... in the rainRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Also, be aware you can totally abuse the save system during missions. Which I loved doing, because it was fun.

    Basically, when you die during a mission, you can choose to go back to the last checkpoint. Thing is, any destruction/freeplay stuff you've accomplished remains accomplished and you get back all your spent ammo, so you can clear out an area, run out of explosives, let yourself die, then go back and complete the mission without pesky nazi snipers watching you.

    Call it a flaw in the save system, but I loved making use of this. It ensured, even if I wasn't abusing it, and I should have a mishap, I never felt slighted or like I'd lost progress.

    Also, this will not work outside of a mission. Outside of missions, dying means reloading or getting sent back to your nearest safe house. This functions like any other open world game, where your progress/stuff blown up is still blown up, but your toys and ammo are all gone.

    Klash on
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    Chris FOMChris FOM Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Anyone know where I can find a standard Kaiser, a Brauner fuel truck (neither of these were marked on the vehicle map a few pages ago), and a tractor? Those are all that I'm missing to complete my car collection, other than the tanks.

    Chris FOM on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Chris FOM wrote: »
    Anyone know where I can find a standard Kaiser, a Brauner fuel truck (neither of these were marked on the vehicle map a few pages ago), and a tractor? Those are all that I'm missing to complete my car collection, other than the tanks.
    There used to be a youtube video of it, but I'm having a hard time finding it.

    There's a Bauer fuel truck either at the fuel yard where you do your first sabotage mission for Luc (on the road between the Belle and the Slaughterhouse, on your left if you're coming from the Belle) or at the castle that you pass on the train during the bridge destruction mission, on the south side of the castle. I think it's at the first area, though.

    Both Kaisers are sitting side by side parked across from either the Arc de Triumphe or in front of the opera house.

    Tractors are in the countryside, there's one near the first country race location at a farmhouse, but they can be found in several places.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ah ha, found it.

    This is what I used to finish that perk.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    LTMLTM Bikes and BeardsRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That is one insanely useful video.

    LTM on
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    KitsunaKitsuna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    You know, I've never really given much thought to the music in The Saboteur but it really does stay with you.

    I was in a shop yesterday buying up stuff for my computer when 'Feeling Good' started playing. I was instantly transported back to memories of gunning down Nazi's, Planting high explosives and burning rubber away from whatever scene of carnage I'd just caused.

    I actually stood stock still in the middle of store just listening until the song was over and then made my purchases and left the store with a smile on my face. It's been a long while since a song has done that to me.

    Kitsuna on
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Is it the Nina Simone version? Because that one is pretty good but I keep hearing the Jennifer Hudson version in those diet ads.

    Koop's Island Blues is pretty awesome too, even if I don't remember where it was in the game.

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    KitsunaKitsuna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yep, it was the Nina Simone version. That was why it caught my attention the way it did.

    Kitsuna on
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    Chris FOMChris FOM Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I also love the little effect with the music where when you get in a car the music is initially tinny like it's coming from an old radio and then after a few seconds smoothly transitions into full audio. I've not a new idea (Pick Floyd used it on "Wish You Were Here" all the way back in 1975) but it's still a really nice touch the way they used it here. Another great little inclusion is when you skip over a cutscene it doesn't just go to the end, Sean cuts the speaker off with some form of "Get to the point."

    That's one thing they really nailed in this game: the world really does feel alive and I feel like I'm truly having an impact. Not only do your actions have an obvious impact on the game world in restoring color, but I've noticed that the comments made by civilians change to reflect the latest actions. Initially when I was climbing buildings they'd threaten to turn me in, but now they shout warnings not to let myself get caught. After I took out the train bridges in freeplay there were comments about how they'd all been destroyed.

    I'm now up to 88% of freeplay targets and about 45 hours played. I've completely cleaned out all the targets except in Paris Area 3 and Centre. For some reason my map shows nothing left in Centre, but I've still got 15 or so things left to take out by the stats page. The entire eastern section of Centre had nothing in it when I bought the map for the area, so I'm wondering if something glitched there or if I need another map or what. Anyone know the score here? I know that the map lines don't perfectly reflect where the game actually thinks the targets are, but 15 seems a bit high.

    Another glitch I came across was when doing the side mission to take out the chateau I passed during the train mission. I didn't run away from the rocket fast enough and got killed in the explosion (tried to get on the zip line and make it look cool, oops). Anyway when I respawned I got the money and the mission complete message, but color never returned to the area. Fortunately I had a manual save from right before that mission so I just slammed through it again. I didn't even mind because the first time I Touch of Deathed a Nazi, stoke his uniform, and did the entire mission in stealth. The second time I said the hell with it and used a tommy gun and panzershrek instead and blasted m way through. The first way was more satisfying when I pulled it off, but the second was way more fun.

    Damn it kills me that we'll never see a sequel to this game. It's got its issues sure, but the potential for something amazing is there. It's already a far better game than the first Assassin's Creed, but that was another title that showed tons of potential through the flaws, and AC 2 is one of my favorite games of the generation. Given how good The Saboteur already is, there's no reason that a sequel that was properly polished and a bit more focused (please, fewer freeplay targets next time) couldn't be phenomenal.

    Chris FOM on
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    What are the Pandemic people up to now? I know they got shut down but did they all go somewhere else, maybe?

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Sean displays a reckless disregard for his personal health and safety at all times, especially when smoking cigarettes.

    Yeah, I just had time to pick this up again for the first time since, oh, about a month ago, and it's winning me over little by little with stuff like that.

    And with this stuff like this:
    "Betty Grable is much more attractive than Eva Braun!"
    "Be quiet, someone may report you for preferring the American."
    "Thank you, I forget myself sometimes."

    Gaslight on
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    MrVyngaardMrVyngaard Live From New Etoile Straight Outta SosariaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The music really is quite amazing. I keep finding myself whistling L'Homme Que J'Adore at times, just because it's such a catchy and charming little tune.

    MrVyngaard on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Feelin' Good and The Finger Points To You are two of the greatest mood-setting songs I've ever heard in a videogame.

    They both fit the setting and action of Saboteur so perfectly.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    So after 30 minutes of clambering from rooftop to rooftop, picking off Nazi guards and blowing up watchtowers, I just died when I planted explosives on a propaganda speaker, ran around the corner to cover, and the damned thing fell directly on top of me.

    I couldn't even bring myself to be mad about it.

    Edit: Now, on the other hand, when I repeat my 30 minute controlled rampage, try to save the game, and then am forced to use Ctrl+Alt+Del to escape from the frozen game, that I can definitely get mad about.

    Gaslight on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If you're just hitting freeplay targets, you don't actually lose any progress when you die. The stuff stays blowed up.

    Sometimes the best option is rushing the tower with an RDX.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    OptimusZed supports terrorism.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I was so angry at myself when I realized you can just shoot the propaganda speakers.

    Fencingsax on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    If you're just hitting freeplay targets, you don't actually lose any progress when you die. The stuff stays blowed up.

    So if I die, instead of loading a save, if I select the "Return to HQ" option I respawn back at the Belle or wherever and everything I blowed up stays blowed up? Interesting. Thanks, for the tip. However, for me, part of the fun is doing shit and then actually managing to escape. But for absurd "acts of God" deaths like the falling speaker, I'll keep this in mind.

    I was a little disappointed that there didn't seem to be a way to successfully stealth you entire way through the champagne bottle mission. Ended up blasting my way through with a trench gun. Almost fell bad killing all those guys over a bottle of booze, even if they were Nazis.

    Gaslight on
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    Chris FOMChris FOM Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If you reload, you keep whatever weapons you had when you last saved, but the stuff you destroyed comes back. If you return to HQ you lose all your grenades and all your ammo (you keep explosives), but the stuff you took out has the good sense to stay that way. It's rarely worth it to reload a game.

    Reached 100% of freeplay targets tonight. That felt GOOD. I remember looking at the map after buying a few area maps initially and feeling overwhelmed by the number of targets on display. It took me a good 10 days of working through one zone at a time, and tonight I finished it off. Now I just need to beat the game. I did a few missions after finishing the freeplay targets; it's hilarious how much easier they get when the Nazis don't have any of their other shit in place to track you. If they can't follow you on the ground they got nothing.

    Chris FOM on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Chris FOM wrote: »
    If you reload, you keep whatever weapons you had when you last saved, but the stuff you destroyed comes back. If you return to HQ you lose all your grenades and all your ammo (you keep explosives), but the stuff you took out has the good sense to stay that way. It's rarely worth it to reload a game.
    Whether you keep grenades and ammo depends on difficulty level. I think the lower two both retain your grenades and all your ammunition, while the higher difficulties don't.

    Freeplay targets stay destroyed if you restart a mission, too. And restarting a mission restores all your ammo and explosives used since the start of the mission, regardless of difficulty level. So if you want to save on dynamite, just take a mission and go blow stuff up, then die and restart the mission. Boom; free explosions.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Really, regarding falling towers, you should be more aware of your surroundings anyway. And you can always run by clicking in the stick.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Really, regarding falling towers, you should be more aware of your surroundings anyway. And you can always run by clicking in the stick.

    Really? I can run by clicking in the stick? That's funny, I do it by pressing Shift. ;-)

    But seriously, I did run some distance away, around a corner, and behind a ledge (as is my wont when bringing down a tower).

    My mistake (aside from not realizing until reading Fencingsax's post that mere bullets are all that's necessary to destroy speakers) was not actually putting a whole wall between me and thing because I wanted to be able to turn the view around and observe it blowing up.

    Then the damn thing toppled in the precise direction necessary to crush me like a hammer hitting a nail. It was a one in a million shot and at the time I found it too hilarious to even be upset about (as I thought then anyway) losing my progress.

    In other news, commandeering anti-aircraft guns is good times.

    Gaslight on
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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I was so angry at myself when I realized you can just shoot the propaganda speakers.

    I prefer hitting them with cars, myself.

    SammyF on
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Man, this is fun, but coming off Just Cause and Assassin's Creed, climbing is so tedious. I just want to grapple up to the towers and parachute away.

    LeumasWhite on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Man, this is fun, but coming off Just Cause and Assassin's Creed, climbing is so tedious. I just want to grapple up to the towers and parachute away.
    Unfortunately, Sean is neither a member of the Assassin bloodline nor a CIA operative with space age grapnel/parachute technology.

    He's just a badass Irishman with a lot of dynamite.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    With super roof jumping powers, actually. Seriously, that M-word can leap.

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Man, this is fun, but coming off Just Cause and Assassin's Creed, climbing is so tedious. I just want to grapple up to the towers and parachute away.

    I'm not really certain that verticality is meant to be a primary focus in this game, or at least it's not meant to be an automatic escape strategy, which is what it would turn into if you sprint up the side of a wall at Ezio speeds. Ezio may know how to free-run, but Sean knows how to drive a car.

    SammyF on
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    KlashKlash Lost... ... in the rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    SammyF wrote: »
    Man, this is fun, but coming off Just Cause and Assassin's Creed, climbing is so tedious. I just want to grapple up to the towers and parachute away.

    I'm not really certain that verticality is meant to be a primary focus in this game, or at least it's not meant to be an automatic escape strategy, which is what it would turn into if you sprint up the side of a wall at Ezio speeds. Ezio may know how to free-run, but Sean knows how to drive a car.

    On the other hand, Ezio can fly a hang glider, has better stealthing funtimes and contraptions, and can ride a horse.

    Honestly, the one thing about The Saboteur that let me down was the parkour. It just wasn't really good. I was going in expecting Assassin's Creed levels of "you can go anywhere, there is always a way to go up". There's just so many large gaps between roof tops, forcing you to either find a wire to zip from or just no way to get between them. Majority of the game map is also open country or otherwise roof-top-less places like parks.

    I wish Pandemic didn't shut down and got another crack at The Saboteur. Just find a venue with more climbing to be done and better climbing.

    Klash on
    We don't even care... whether we care or not...
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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Klash wrote: »
    I wish Pandemic didn't shut down and got another crack at The Saboteur. Just find a venue with more climbing to be done and better climbing.

    I mean, that would be interesting, but part of the problem Saboteur had was that people were automatically looking to compare it to Assassin's Creed II, which came out less than a month prior. The solution to that problem isn't out-Assassin's Creeding Assassin's Creed -- it's refining and focusing on what's unique about the game: disguises, ranged combat, vehicles, blowing shit up.

    The game THQ never made which I'd like to play most would be a Mercenaries 3 title that featured an improved version of disguises. What I missed most in Saboteur was helicopters (for obvious reasons).

    SammyF on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Saboteur wasn't supposed to be another Assassin's Creed game. It's supposed to be a kinda-sorta realistic take on the occupation of Paris. It was never marketed as an open-world, run up the side of buildings, hang glide past the Eiffel Tower kind of game.

    If you came into it expecting Just Cause 2 or Assassin's Creed 2 levels of free roaming it was going to disappoint. Of course, if I saw Sean climbing vertically hand over hand as fast as he could run horizontally on the ground I would have had a lot of trouble maintaining any sort of immersion, because that's not how it actually works.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    KlashKlash Lost... ... in the rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    SammyF wrote: »
    Klash wrote: »
    I wish Pandemic didn't shut down and got another crack at The Saboteur. Just find a venue with more climbing to be done and better climbing.

    I mean, that would be interesting, but part of the problem Saboteur had was that people were automatically looking to compare it to Assassin's Creed II, which came out less than a month prior. The solution to that problem isn't out-Assassin's Creeding Assassin's Creed -- it's refining and focusing on what's unique about the game: disguises, ranged combat, vehicles, blowing shit up.

    The game THQ never made which I'd like to play most would be a Mercenaries 3 title that featured an improved version of disguises. What I missed most in Saboteur was helicopters (for obvious reasons).

    For what it's worth, I never played AC2. Never will, because Ubisoft are touched in the head, if they think I'll pay for that DRM system of theirs. Thats beside the point, though. I played AC1, and use Ezio's name just because he currently represents the parkour system they've got set-up, and I forget the first guy's name. Something with an A. I think.

    Anyways, I wasn't expecting Assassin's Creed. Even Assassin's Creed had its problems, what with the parkour having the accuracy of a hippo falling from a skyscraper. I was simply expecting more rooftops. I wasn't expecting the huge, gaping areas of openness, where the core movement* was left in the complete cold or the openness was strung poorly together by power lines.

    *Any pretension that parkour wasn't Sab's core movement-type is insane. It wasn't marketed as Assassin's Creed, but it was marketed as having a free-flowing parkour system that made running from nazis funtimes.
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Saboteur wasn't supposed to be another Assassin's Creed game. It's supposed to be a kinda-sorta realistic take on the occupation of Paris. It was never marketed as an open-world, run up the side of buildings, hang glide past the Eiffel Tower kind of game.

    If you came into it expecting Just Cause 2 or Assassin's Creed 2 levels of free roaming it was going to disappoint. Of course, if I saw Sean climbing vertically hand over hand as fast as he could run horizontally on the ground I would have had a lot of trouble maintaining any sort of immersion, because that's not how it actually works.

    The nazis also didn't employ zeppelins the size of Paris as floating fortresses to rain bullet-hell down on French resistance members. There also wasn't a huge, giant, cock-compensating cannon in the middle of Paris, blown up by a race car driver that could plummet off a rooftop and brush it off. The Saboteur relied on realism like gray scale relies on colour. I don't think an increase in maneuverability would break immersion, certainly not my immersion.

    In the end, it isn't that I want Sean to be Ezio, it's that I want a quick, precise, and fun manner of moving around Paris. The comparisons to Just Cause 2 or AC, would be that their movement systems were fluid and fun, despite being worlds apart in style. The Saboteur's movement was clunky and had zero sense of flow, because you couldn't really parkour across Paris.

    I know it sounds like I'm dumping on The Saboteur, but I'm not. It wasn't a polished game, this is simple fact. I loved the game, I love open worlds like nothing else, and it manages to rank top 5 in open worlds for me. That doesn't mean I can't see the faults, and the parkour was one of those not-quite-right, unpolished spots. The entire game was unpolished, frankly.

    Klash on
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    MrVyngaardMrVyngaard Live From New Etoile Straight Outta SosariaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Klash wrote: »
    The entire game was unpolished, frankly.

    It's a gem in the rough, like its Irishman!
    Quick, someone photomanip Sean's face onto an Ezio pic. Blarney's Creed!

    MrVyngaard on
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I wasn't expecting AC2 style parkour either, just noting that it's hard to get used to Sean's climbing after you've been zooming along as Ezio or Rico for hours. I'd probably be happier if I could see where entrances to the inside of blocks were on the map, cause it's usually a lot easier than going up the outside. There's never a drain pipe around when you need it. :(

    LeumasWhite on
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