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Project Natal - Peter Molyneux wants you to touch his child

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Behumat wrote: »
    All I want to know is can you beat your virtual child?

    If you purchase the Red Headed Step Child DLC you can.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Behumat wrote: »
    All I want to know is can you beat your virtual child?

    But then the environment would change to a 6foot by 6foot area with bars for a door and a man named bubba who forces you to use the optional dildo shaped attachment in uncomfortable ways.

    Jubal77 on
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    acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Where the hell is rvcontre?

    Project Natal and Peter Molyneux's milo are obviously prophets foretelling the release of Crane Operator. . .

    acidlacedpenguin on
    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
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    BrianBrian Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I just want head tracking (I think that's the term) for flight sims, racing games... etc.

    If games started supporting head tracking I'd buy one.

    But the problem with that is... If you turn your head... You can't see the screen anymore.

    Brian on
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I was really interested in this until I saw Molyneux attached to it.

    BloodySloth on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Brian wrote: »
    I just want head tracking (I think that's the term) for flight sims, racing games... etc.

    If games started supporting head tracking I'd buy one.

    But the problem with that is... If you turn your head... You can't see the screen anymore.

    You misunderstand, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

    You can start at 2:29 if you just want the good stuff.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    holy shit.

    If they use Natal to do soemthing like that, I take back all the negative things I said about it.

    chamberlain on
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    JelloblimpJelloblimp Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Damn that was indeed awesome.

    Jelloblimp on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    It's been around for ages. A head tracking mode was supposed to be in Boom Blox but it was axed due to being a non-standard use of the remote/bar.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    It's been around for ages. A head tracking mode was supposed to be in Boom Blox but it was axed due to being a non-standard use of the remote/bar.

    A console lauded for nonstandard controls axing something innovative because it was nonstandard? Gorgeous.

    BloodySloth on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    It's been around for ages. A head tracking mode was supposed to be in Boom Blox but it was axed due to being a non-standard use of the remote/bar.

    A console lauded for nonstandard controls axing something innovative because it was nonstandard? Gorgeous.

    I don't remember if it was Nintendo or EA, afraid that people couldn't figure out a good way to wear a bar on their head.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    If Natals facial recongition works as well as advertised head tracking would be so awesome. And you could play the actual using a normal 360 controller so it could just be an option for standard FPS'

    Jeedan on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Talking about microsoft R&D and rediculous visions of the future which won't happen:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxVS5nYFnkA

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    holy shit.

    If they use Natal to do soemthing like that, I take back all the negative things I said about it.

    Well they do have that guy working on it so who knows?

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Brian wrote: »
    I just want head tracking (I think that's the term) for flight sims, racing games... etc.

    If games started supporting head tracking I'd buy one.

    But the problem with that is... If you turn your head... You can't see the screen anymore.

    You misunderstand, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

    You can start at 2:29 if you just want the good stuff.

    You know what's funny? The guy in these films is Johnny Lee, who joined MS Research apparently some time ago. He just updated his blog with some thoughts ...

    http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/06/project-natal.html
    If you've been wondering why my project blog has been pretty quiet, I can finally say it is because I have been helping Xbox with Project Natal. If you haven't seen the vision video, it is definitely worth checking out:

    Now, I should preface by saying I don't deserve credit for anything that you saw at E3. A large team of very smart, very hard working people were involved in building the demos you saw on stage. The part I am working on has much more to do with making sure this can transition from the E3 stage to your living room - for which there is an even larger team of very smart, very hard working people involved. The other thing I should say is that I can't really reveal any details that haven't already been made public. Unfortunately.

    Speaking as someone who has been working in interface and sensing technology for nearly 10 years, this is an astonishing combination of hardware and software. The few times I’ve been able to show researchers the underlying components, their jaws drop with amazement... and with good reason.

    The 3D sensor itself is a pretty incredible piece of equipment providing detailed 3D information about the environment similar to very expensive laser range finding systems but at a tiny fraction of the cost. Depth cameras provide you with a point cloud of the surface of objects that is fairly insensitive to various lighting conditions allowing you to do things that are simply impossible with a normal camera.

    But once you have the 3D information, you then have to interpret that cloud of points as "people". This is where the researcher jaws stay dropped. The human tracking algorithms that the teams have developed are well ahead of the state of the art in computer vision in this domain. The sophistication and performance of the algorithms rival or exceed anything that I've seen in academic research, never mind a consumer product. At times, working on this project has felt like a miniature “Manhattan project” with developers and researchers from around the world coming together to make this happen.

    We would all love to one day have our own personal holodeck. This is a pretty measurable step in that direction.

    Xbox and Microsoft deserve an enormous amount of credit for taking on such an ambitious project. It’s one thing to say “Wouldn’t it be cool if…”, but it’s another thing entirely to say, “let’s dedicate the resources to really make it happen inventing whatever needs to be invented along the way.” I have to say it's pretty neat building the future.

    Obviously take his (and my) comments with a grain of salt since we both work at MS, but I thought some folks here might be interested. I just ran across that blog mention on Kotaku.

    JCRooks on
    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Gamertag: Rooks
    - Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit :)

    Steam: JC_Rooks

    Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC

    I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
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    DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Where the hell is rvcontre?

    Project Natal and Peter Molyneux's milo are obviously prophets foretelling the release of Crane Operator. . .

    <3

    DeathPrawn on
    Signature not found.
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Peas wrote: »
    Goddamnit, I like using a controller. If I wanted to run around like an idiot I would go ouside.

    The day that motion controls are the only way is the day that I know PC gaming will welcome me back, with open arms, forgiving the years of neglect caused by high def consoles. The mouse and keyboard will still be there, and maybe even a USB gamepad to ease the trasition back.

    t-minority_report.jpg

    ahahahaha windows 98

    Sam on
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    ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I was really interested in this until I saw Molyneux attached to it.

    Its like fable 2. They make some pretty grievous (co-op is horribly broken) errors in that game and essentially break it for me. He promised me an interactive experience, I ended up with weaksauce combat and a world that I didn't really care to visit except to entertain friends.

    The sad thing is, johnny lee has more credibility in my eyes then molyneux. That being said, I will need to see the demo at pax.

    But I'm not getting my hopes up because the big Molyneux moron has lied to us before.

    Viscountalpha on
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    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Using webcams like this seems to be the latest software fad in Japan. Tech48 is a game in development using the idea.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ietaQ-4hYEc

    It takes the position of the user's head from the webcam, using it to rotate the in-game view.

    Suriko on
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    AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Looking up skirts in real time.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
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    BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    20090605.jpg

    BlackDove on
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    Brian wrote: »
    I just want head tracking (I think that's the term) for flight sims, racing games... etc.

    If games started supporting head tracking I'd buy one.

    But the problem with that is... If you turn your head... You can't see the screen anymore.

    You misunderstand, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

    You can start at 2:29 if you just want the good stuff.

    You know what's funny? The guy in these films is Johnny Lee, who joined MS Research apparently some time ago. He just updated his blog with some thoughts ...

    http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/06/project-natal.html
    If you've been wondering why my project blog has been pretty quiet, I can finally say it is because I have been helping Xbox with Project Natal. If you haven't seen the vision video, it is definitely worth checking out:

    Now, I should preface by saying I don't deserve credit for anything that you saw at E3. A large team of very smart, very hard working people were involved in building the demos you saw on stage. The part I am working on has much more to do with making sure this can transition from the E3 stage to your living room - for which there is an even larger team of very smart, very hard working people involved. The other thing I should say is that I can't really reveal any details that haven't already been made public. Unfortunately.

    Speaking as someone who has been working in interface and sensing technology for nearly 10 years, this is an astonishing combination of hardware and software. The few times I’ve been able to show researchers the underlying components, their jaws drop with amazement... and with good reason.

    The 3D sensor itself is a pretty incredible piece of equipment providing detailed 3D information about the environment similar to very expensive laser range finding systems but at a tiny fraction of the cost. Depth cameras provide you with a point cloud of the surface of objects that is fairly insensitive to various lighting conditions allowing you to do things that are simply impossible with a normal camera.

    But once you have the 3D information, you then have to interpret that cloud of points as "people". This is where the researcher jaws stay dropped. The human tracking algorithms that the teams have developed are well ahead of the state of the art in computer vision in this domain. The sophistication and performance of the algorithms rival or exceed anything that I've seen in academic research, never mind a consumer product. At times, working on this project has felt like a miniature “Manhattan project” with developers and researchers from around the world coming together to make this happen.

    We would all love to one day have our own personal holodeck. This is a pretty measurable step in that direction.

    Xbox and Microsoft deserve an enormous amount of credit for taking on such an ambitious project. It’s one thing to say “Wouldn’t it be cool if…”, but it’s another thing entirely to say, “let’s dedicate the resources to really make it happen inventing whatever needs to be invented along the way.” I have to say it's pretty neat building the future.

    Obviously take his (and my) comments with a grain of salt since we both work at MS, but I thought some folks here might be interested. I just ran across that blog mention on Kotaku.

    I honestly wish I could call this a direct result of competition and Microsoft trying to stay ahead of the game with regard to Nintendo and Sony, but I think it's just one of those rare occurrences of awesomeness for its own sake.

    Taramoor on
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    WMain00WMain00 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Spoit wrote: »
    Talking about microsoft R&D and rediculous visions of the future which won't happen:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxVS5nYFnkA

    I wouldn't be so easy to dismiss it. Some of these technologies are being worked on conceptually today (Surface is damn near finished). Given the momentum for computer technology and development, I would say approximately that we might see these technologies in commercial use by 2020AD, with the latest possibly being 2035AD.

    WMain00 on
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    ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    You have to admit, the wiimote idea is forcing Microsoft hand. They don't appear to have a choice in the matter if they want to beat Nintendo.

    I really want this to be awesome but I have doubts that they can make hand gestures as fast as a controller with the current cpu and memory limitations in place. Mario kart wii just drives me nuts because it feels like I'm driving a blimp.

    I want to be wrong about their software/hardware setup. I really, really want to be wrong.

    Viscountalpha on
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    CobellCobell Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    This is an interesting article

    http://news.spong.com/article/18155/Lionheads_Project_Natal_Video_Fakery

    I don't know if it actually means the demo is fake. It could just be a bug or problem with the detection. But I am definitely skeptical especially since Molyneux is attached to it.

    I remain skeptical but optimistic.

    Cobell on
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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I guess this means all those stupid Soulja Boy songs will actually be games now.

    If I had some video skills, I would tag those youtube clips with a hud, score, hi score, and score over time graph.

    RoyceSraphim on
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    RoxtarRoxtar Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Cobell wrote: »
    This is an interesting article

    http://news.spong.com/article/18155/Lionheads_Project_Natal_Video_Fakery

    I don't know if it actually means the demo is fake. It could just be a bug or problem with the detection. But I am definitely skeptical especially since Molyneux is attached to it.

    I remain skeptical but optimistic.

    Well in its defense I don't believe anyone truly believed the demo video demo was real, because it was so obviously acted out.

    Roxtar on
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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Roxtar wrote: »
    Cobell wrote: »
    This is an interesting article

    http://news.spong.com/article/18155/Lionheads_Project_Natal_Video_Fakery

    I don't know if it actually means the demo is fake. It could just be a bug or problem with the detection. But I am definitely skeptical especially since Molyneux is attached to it.

    I remain skeptical but optimistic.

    Well in its defense I don't believe anyone truly believed the demo video demo was real, because it was so obviously acted out.

    And I wouldn't necessarily equal Molyneux and Natal ... while Milo is using Natals technology, its still only one possible use for it. I couldn't care less about the boy ... but the Natal technology itself and its potential has me excited. The possible gaming uses are great ... but its even the non-gaming uses which are even greater. So I wouldn't put too much importance on Milo and Molyneux ...

    TheBigEasy on
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'll be honest and frank. (Hi Frank!)

    I'm not asking to be convinced, because I think you all have more better things to do with your time than to bother with that.

    I cannot think of too many practical uses for Natal that have me excited or even thinking this is the future. I see a lot of people who say "omg, the gaming uses for Natal are great, the non-gaming uses are even better!" Well, I see a lot of that, but I don't see anyone providing specific examples.

    Off the top of my own head, I think I see a lot of party game use, like a WarioWare game and that's fine. Unfortunately, it's been done before (Wii) and it's not terribly exciting. It's a different method of achieving the same end result - movement and exercise as gaming - and it's not really "the wave of the future".

    I see some potential for interactivity like Milo, trying to share Molyneux's vision of interacting with virtual AI, but I can't see how that's fun. I'm sure the first use of this where people will actually find some fun out of it is a dating sim, and then you can be laughed at because you're one step away from cybersex with a program. I never thought I'd say it, but whatever Natal can provide in a gaming avenue is probably better achieved by going out and doing the real thing. Basketball sim? I'll be impressed if they can match the physics of the ball based on your jump height and when you "release" your hand for a 3-pointer.

    What are the purposes behind voice recognition and facial recognition for games or real-world application? Voice I suppose for war games and shooters. Facial for...? I'm honestly not trying to be closed-minded but I just don't see what you'd do with it for the current genres of games out there. A whole new genre of game can come out that uses this kind of tech, but I just can't find the joy in playing out a game without tactile response and if it is AI interaction, nothing ever beats having a real friend over for gaming.

    El Fantastico on
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    JonnyBotJonnyBot Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The RPer in me envisions playing an RPG and actually talking to and having conversations with npc's. I imagine being able to act out as the character your playing and having the npc pick up on your tone of voice or the look on your face and react accordingly. That would be hot shit for me.

    JonnyBot on
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    JonnyBot wrote: »
    The RPer in me envisions playing an RPG and actually talking to and having conversations with npc's. I imagine being able to act out as the character your playing and having the npc pick up on your tone of voice or the look on your face and react accordingly. That would be hot shit for me.

    I doubt they could program the NPC to react to all your sentences and carry a full conversation.

    What they could do, though, is have a dialogue system like Fallout, Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment (tons of choices of dialogue) and have you say the dialogue option you want out loud rather than select it with a controller. Useless, but adds immersion to the game, and sometimes this is just great.

    Djiem on
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    kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'm shocked that anyone would not assume Molyneux's lying.

    He's much better at overselling than he is at creating.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I cannot think of too many practical uses for Natal that have me excited or even thinking this is the future. I see a lot of people who say "omg, the gaming uses for Natal are great, the non-gaming uses are even better!" Well, I see a lot of that, but I don't see anyone providing specific examples.

    What are the purposes behind voice recognition and facial recognition for games or real-world application? Voice I suppose for war games and shooters. Facial for...? I'm honestly not trying to be closed-minded but I just don't see what you'd do with it for the current genres of games out there. A whole new genre of game can come out that uses this kind of tech, but I just can't find the joy in playing out a game without tactile response and if it is AI interaction, nothing ever beats having a real friend over for gaming.

    Some scenarios:
    Im cooking, and its getting a little hot in here. I say "Set temperature, 72 degrees." Natal like system sets it and the air conditioning gets turned on. But wait, I forgot one of the ingredients. I say "Open 'Kitchen Application with Better Name" and scroll through various recipes with a wave of my hand - my hands are covered with flour. I find what I need... but a song comes on I don't want to listen to. I say "Next song!" and it does it. But... its still not really want I want to hear. With an exasperated sigh I say, "Music Library" and wave through to the album I want without ever having to find the remote.

    After cooking, my fiance gets off the computer and decides to exercise. She walks in front of the TV and it recognizes her. She says "Fitness" and it runs the fitness program we have. It shows her progress because it remembers her shape. It shows her the agreed upon program and she starts going through it. The program shows when shes done the particular exercises correctly.

    Then after shes done, she walks off and I decide I want to play some Modern Warfare 5. I pick up the controller and sit down on the couch. It welcomes me because it recognizes me and I say "Quick play online: Modern Warfare 5". I'm playing with the controller... but Im pinned against a wall by some of the enemy. I actually look around the corner by moving my head slightly. To me it looks incredibly 3d because it tracks my head position and adjusts the image accordingly.

    This probably will not all come with Natal.... but this is the future of that tech. Don't be so naive that these types of applications are not exactly what Microsoft is thinking about. What do you think all the non gaming stuff they are adding to the 360 is for? They want to control the living room.

    Wassermelone on
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That would be a dream too, but that's all it is I think, even still with the "promises" of Natal. It'd have to be a small scale RPG or a less graphic-intensive one to be able to house voices for multitudes of characters. (lol at 16-bit rpg so it can be a 50+ hour epic, with voice acting).

    An RPG on the scale of saaay, Oblivion, with current technology for all of the recognition and responses that aren't canned, pre-determined choices programmed into the game is probably not yet possible. I only say probably because I'm certainly no expert in the field.

    El Fantastico on
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    sabotage1022sabotage1022 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I never thought about a FPS having head tracking for leaning.

    Although by the time this is available it will be MW3.

    sabotage1022 on
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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    JonnyBot wrote: »
    The RPer in me envisions playing an RPG and actually talking to and having conversations with npc's. I imagine being able to act out as the character your playing and having the npc pick up on your tone of voice or the look on your face and react accordingly. That would be hot shit for me.

    That isn't Natal, Molyneux has not created skynet. Any impression otherwise is the wrong impression.

    It's a toy with a camera like that fish on the dreamcast.

    override367 on
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That actually really puts things into perspective, Wassermelone, but I agree that I don't think it's all going to come with Natal. I'm not even sure the future (5 years, lets say before it's readily marketable, 10 before it's perfected) tech will come from Microsoft. It's not that I don't doubt Microsoft's R&D team, and I'm not anti-MS by any means (Windows man, through and through) but I believe this kind of technology has been in research for a long time by other companies. Probably not with the funding MS has access to, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another company out of Europe, Asia or elsewhere in North America release something first. Then MS buys them...

    El Fantastico on
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That actually really puts things into perspective, Wassermelone, but I agree that I don't think it's all going to come with Natal. I'm not even sure the future (5 years, lets say before it's readily marketable, 10 before it's perfected) tech will come from Microsoft. It's not that I don't doubt Microsoft's R&D team, and I'm not anti-MS by any means (Windows man, through and through) but I believe this kind of technology has been in research for a long time by other companies. Probably not with the funding MS has access to, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another company out of Europe, Asia or elsewhere in North America release something first. Then MS buys them...

    Well thats what people mean when they are saying the 'potential' of this tech. Watching the demo for Natal - even if it doesn't work YET - was like watching a piece of the future slot into place. Its something that sci fi writers have envisioned for a long time, and its actually starting to get here. Its pretty incredible.

    Wassermelone on
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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'll be honest and frank. (Hi Frank!)

    Hi, El Fantastico!

    As for the rest of your post ... Wassermelone described it better than I could.

    But really, right now it is only the potential that gets people excited. I am well aware that this is only the beginning and (as with the Wii) the first edition of Natal won't deliver a perfect experience. Basketball games actually would be a great possibility for Natal. Not necessarily to judge the shot by the hight of your jump, but just to get away from the button pushing and do the natural movements. Sure, you won't get a dunk with this ... but just doing the right motion when shooting a jumpshot or at least when shooting freethrows would help a lot. I absolutely hate the latter in video games ...

    The one thing that wouldn't work in Basketball with Natal (at least in my opinion) is the easy switching between players you now have. Right now when you take a "sky view" camera, its no problem to switch between players. But with Natal you could easily get into a first person perspective ... and when you switch players there, you probably can get disoriented easily, especially in quick situations like a fast break.

    In non-gaming situations ... voice command alone would be awesome, without having to either physically searching for something and putting it in (DVD) or when your hands are dirty/full or when you are on the other side of the room or house.

    TheBigEasy on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Dealing with insurance companies I have to talk to machines all day, and I'll tell you:

    I hate talking to fucking machines. Sometimes when I want something I just want to push a fucking button.

    Edit: Why the hell would you be cooking in your living room?

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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