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Project Natal - Peter Molyneux wants you to touch his child

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    ElementalorElementalor Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Elementalor on
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    ClipseClipse Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    I believe the point is that with the Wii and the PS3 you have to keep some portion of the controller in the line of sight; with Project Natal that isn't a concern.

    Clipse on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Haven't people seen this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&fmt=18

    And no, it's not about what he says... it's about what the model does. In other words, it's not accurate enough to figure out what position he's actually in, at least not in those lighting/room conditions.

    Mblackwell on
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    LittleBootsLittleBoots Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Haven't people seen this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&fmt=18

    And no, it's not about what he says... it's about what the model does. In other words, it's not accurate enough to figure out what position he's actually in, at least not in those lighting/room conditions.

    Yes, many of us saw this live.


    I couldn't stop laughing when it happened either. I really thought I was going to hurt myself from laughing so hard.

    LittleBoots on

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    JCRooks wrote: »
    Yeah, it's like MS don't want me to believe in their project. Have Molyneux sell me something that looks like an impossible AI? Really?

    You've mentioned Molyneux over and over again. If you don't like the guy, that's fine, but he's only involved in one project that utilizes Natal. Just wanted to point that out. It's not like he's overseeing everything.

    Hasn't he just been promoted to Overlord of MS studios Europe?

    He may not be king of the whole world but he has significant sway within the MGS business does he not?

    Hmm, depends on what you mean by "significant sway", but yeah, certainly he has influence over large parts of MGS now (particularly in Europe). Also, despite the overhype that he blanked on several games, I still thought Fable and especially Fable 2 were good games. Perhaps more importantly, they sold like gangbusters. So even if a few gaming cynics on message board don't like his "dreamer" and optimistic views on things, the fact is that he still delivers results.

    Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a defense of Molyneux. I was just saying that regarding Natal, it's not like he's running the entire thing.

    One last thing ... I think I know who FuSchnick is. :) I'll have to see if my suspicions are correct sometime ...

    I think what it comes down to is Molyneux has become a figure who, simply by speaking about a project, lends an air of unreliability to the whole thing.

    Regardless of whether Molyneux has anything to do with it at all, the perception has become that if he says 1+1=2, people will seriously begin to doubt the validity of that statement.

    Maddoc on
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    MisterGrokMisterGrok Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Again, he's not speaking about Natal, he's speaking about a tech demo utilizing Natal. I don't get how that translates. It's like saying Peter Molyneux talking about an Xbox 360 game automatically makes the Xbox 360 unreliable.

    Okay... bad example. I trust you still get my point.

    MisterGrok on
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    UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So if we are to believe this "z-buffer" business, then Natal basically makes a depth map of the space in front of it like one of those desk toys with the the metal pins that take the shape of whatever you push into them (along with more traditional optical recognition)?

    Interesting. My gut reaction tells me that gaming is probably the wrong way to go about developing this technology, but whatever.

    I'm fine with a bit of limited waggle. I love the pointer mechanism of the Wii. But there are good reasons that most human-computer interaction is done through the hands - like millions of years of evolution actually making them our primary means of interacting with the environment.

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    MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So if we are to believe this "z-buffer" business, then Natal basically makes a depth map of the space in front of it like one of those desk toys with the the metal pins that take the shape of whatever you push into them (along with more traditional optical recognition)?

    It creates a depth-model of everything it "sees". The point being that it can distinguish foreground objects from background objects and can calculate distance.

    It's a big advance over EyeToy. Whether it's the next revolution in control is another matter.

    I'm hopeful. I've enjoyed the Wii moreso than any other console this gen, and Natal seems to be following the same path, albeit with very different technology.

    But I don't see why they then had to present "Milo" as well. The Natal camera technology is good stuff, they didn't need to have some faux-AI demo too. It was just a distraction and decreased the credibility of Natal.

    Marlor on
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    BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I just wanted to note about sign language... their will 100% be a game to learn sign language with this tech. :D If we all do get said game and sign language becomes a more common thing, I am sure their will be apps that make it so we can use sign language for menus and keyboarding.

    Also, think of the apps you could do with this. Picture it on PC... the endless things you can think of. Like I was saying, you can makeshift anything into a controller or even a keyboard and mouse. Your hamsandwich could be a mouse with an app and when you move it, the mouse pointer moves. You could draw a keyboard on a piece of paper and Natal could read your key strokes on said paper. Endless possibilities with apps and mods or even just video games.

    It's just not you that is the controller, everything and anything could be if set up and modded right.

    Buraisu on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Because he's not cocking ragging on it. He's just stating what it can, and can't, do.

    Stating the limitation of a piece of equipment is not ragging on it. My *console of choice* can't cough out £10 notes on command. Doesn't make it a bad console.

    darleysam on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Because he's not cocking ragging on it. He's just stating what it can, and can't, do.

    Stating the limitation of a piece of equipment is not ragging on it. My *console of choice* can't cough out £10 notes on command. Doesn't make it a bad console.

    Mine does. You should buy a DS. That's what the slot at the bottom is for. How could you not know this?

    The_Scarab on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Son of a bitch.. brb

    darleysam on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    Son of a bitch.. brb

    Don't make the mistake of getting a DSi, they don't have that bottom slot

    UncleSporky on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    Son of a bitch.. brb

    Don't make the mistake of getting a DSi, they don't have that bottom slot

    Ah, but with that, you can photograph and then print the money. Means you can use bigger values.

    edit: Back to Natal and Milo and how it's all faked, have people not seen reports from journalists who've tried it and confirmed that it's not fake? Because, you know, I'm likely to give some credence to the views of those who've tried it.

    darleysam on
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    ElementalorElementalor Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Because he's not cocking ragging on it. He's just stating what it can, and can't, do.

    Stating the limitation of a piece of equipment is not ragging on it. My *console of choice* can't cough out £10 notes on command. Doesn't make it a bad console.

    Well, he states things in a fashion that "Company X and Y have technology that is limited by this, but we are not because we use some other thing". That's what I call ragging. Especially when they're limited by the same thing.

    Put your hand behind your back, does natal know what you're doing? Also, the wand loses LoS with the PS eyetoy of w/e whenever the dude pulled an arrow out of the virtual quiver.

    Saying negative things about competitors and only positive things about one's own company counts as ragging, it's just not as incoherent as you try to make it sound.

    Elementalor on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Because he's not cocking ragging on it. He's just stating what it can, and can't, do.

    Stating the limitation of a piece of equipment is not ragging on it. My *console of choice* can't cough out £10 notes on command. Doesn't make it a bad console.

    Well, he states things in a fashion that "Company X and Y have technology that is limited by this, but we are not because we use some other thing". That's what I call ragging. Especially when they're limited by the same thing.

    Put your hand behind your back, does natal know what you're doing? Also, the wand loses LoS with the PS eyetoy of w/e whenever the dude pulled an arrow out of the virtual quiver.

    Saying negative things about competitors and only positive things about one's own company counts as ragging, it's just not as incoherent as you try to make it sound.

    My guess is he's replying to people saying "camera technology won't work in a dark room/weird background/other such downfalls". So he's saying that yes it does, and that other solutions presented by Sony and Nintendo aren't necessarily superior. If you read someone stating the apparent downfalls of the Wii Remote as 'ragging', when what he's saying seems pretty-much true, then.. sorry, you're doing it wrong.

    darleysam on
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    ElementalorElementalor Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    How can this FuSchnick rag on "limited by line of sight" for Wii and PS3 stuff? Assuming the sensor is next to the TV, if I'm not in front of it....am I playing a game?

    Also, Natal's controller is the person...I'm pretty sure Natal is limited to line of sight with a person.

    Either way I'm sure this thing'll be gimbal locking it's own rig with more complicated twisting and movement...I'll still probably end up getting it though, unless the PS3 one does a little better than a wand.

    Because he's not cocking ragging on it. He's just stating what it can, and can't, do.

    Stating the limitation of a piece of equipment is not ragging on it. My *console of choice* can't cough out £10 notes on command. Doesn't make it a bad console.

    Well, he states things in a fashion that "Company X and Y have technology that is limited by this, but we are not because we use some other thing". That's what I call ragging. Especially when they're limited by the same thing.

    Put your hand behind your back, does natal know what you're doing? Also, the wand loses LoS with the PS eyetoy of w/e whenever the dude pulled an arrow out of the virtual quiver.

    Saying negative things about competitors and only positive things about one's own company counts as ragging, it's just not as incoherent as you try to make it sound.

    My guess is he's replying to people saying "camera technology won't work in a dark room/weird background/other such downfalls". So he's saying that yes it does, and that other solutions presented by Sony and Nintendo aren't necessarily superior. If you read someone stating the apparent downfalls of the Wii Remote as 'ragging', when what he's saying seems pretty-much true, then.. sorry, you're doing it wrong.

    Ragging can be true. You interpreting 'ragging' as a lying or w/e means you, sir, did it wrong.

    But putting the quote into that larger context, makes more sense, and I will concede that it is not ragging. Because I don't want to talk about whether it is or isn't any more.

    Elementalor on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Son of a bitch.. brb

    Don't make the mistake of getting a DSi, they don't have that bottom slot

    Ah, but with that, you can photograph and then print the money. Means you can use bigger values.

    edit: Back to Natal and Milo and how it's all faked, have people not seen reports from journalists who've tried it and confirmed that it's not fake? Because, you know, I'm likely to give some credence to the views of those who've tried it.

    Eurogamer said it was their game of the show I think. They went into detail about exactly how much was faked (most of it) but the unreasoable expectations of the community (essentially asking for sentient AI in 2009) have clouded what is highly impressive tech.

    The_Scarab on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Son of a bitch.. brb

    Don't make the mistake of getting a DSi, they don't have that bottom slot

    Ah, but with that, you can photograph and then print the money. Means you can use bigger values.

    edit: Back to Natal and Milo and how it's all faked, have people not seen reports from journalists who've tried it and confirmed that it's not fake? Because, you know, I'm likely to give some credence to the views of those who've tried it.

    Eurogamer said it was their game of the show I think. They went into detail about exactly how much was faked (most of it) but the unreasoable expectations of the community (essentially asking for sentient AI in 2009) have clouded what is highly impressive tech.

    That's what I was referring to. Ellie Gibson seems like one of their more cynical and sarcastic writers, and if she's got positive words to say about it, it's got to have something there.

    darleysam on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I cannot think of too many practical uses for Natal that have me excited or even thinking this is the future. I see a lot of people who say "omg, the gaming uses for Natal are great, the non-gaming uses are even better!" Well, I see a lot of that, but I don't see anyone providing specific examples.

    Voice commands were used pretty effectively in Tom Clancy's Endwar. Works pretty well with MS Sync too, in cars. Speech-to-text programs have been around forever, and would sure make it easier to type in character/profile names, XBL codes, IMs, etc.

    At E3, the Ruse demo on MS Surface was pretty slick. If Natal can read hand positions, I don't see why it couldn't replicate multitouch-esque gestures, without the whole "having to buy a $15,000 coffee table" thing.

    Imagine being able to build your car in Forza 4 or Banjo: Nuttier & Boltier using Natal, or building a Spore creature. It could be like Robert Downey Jr. designing the Iron Man suit.

    BubbaT on
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    I cannot think of too many practical uses for Natal that have me excited or even thinking this is the future. I see a lot of people who say "omg, the gaming uses for Natal are great, the non-gaming uses are even better!" Well, I see a lot of that, but I don't see anyone providing specific examples.

    Voice commands were used pretty effectively in Tom Clancy's Endwar. Works pretty well with MS Sync too, in cars. Speech-to-text programs have been around forever, and would sure make it easier to type in character/profile names, XBL codes, IMs, etc.

    At E3, the Ruse demo on MS Surface was pretty slick. If Natal can read hand positions, I don't see why it couldn't replicate multitouch-esque gestures, without the whole "having to buy a $15,000 coffee table" thing.

    Imagine being able to build your car in Forza 4 or Banjo: Nuttier & Boltier using Natal, or building a Spore creature. It could be like Robert Downey Jr. designing the Iron Man suit.

    The only issue with that sort of shenanigans is a total lack of tactile feedback making coordination extraordinarily difficult.

    Maddoc on
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    neophilusneophilus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Why is this technology only being developed for a gaming system and not for PC's in general? It could revolutionize the way people interact with computers. I don't see keyboards going away any time soon but mice and trackballs are starting to look like stone age technology compared to what is being presented in Natal. More and more jobs are forcing people behind a PC at work all day - if anyone has put 8+ hours in at work using a mouse 5 days a week and still continues a serious hobby as a PC gamer at night then you know what kind of cramping/carpal tunnel symptoms can start to creep up.

    It just seems to me that modern gaming requires subtle movements and precise button manipulation that wouldn't be done justice by a motion/spatial sensing technology such as this. Games would either have to be dumbed-down to suit this technology, or motion sensing would have to be tacked on as a gimmick.

    A mouse is a very basic input device compared to a modern console controller - it captures only one movemnt on an x/y access, has 2-3 buttons and a scroll wheel. This type of input could easily be replaced by a Natal-like device, AND has the potential to sell to a much larger market than the video game community.

    Actually I'm surprised Apple hasn't already developed technology like this for their computer systems.

    neophilus on
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    FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Probably because hand gestures/etc is a bit more awkward sitting at a desk, so it makes more sense in a living room environment where most people won't have a keyboard/mouse or want one either. I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing computer apps that use it if it works though, I'm sure MS will make Vista/Windows7 support it once it is up and running.

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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Maddoc wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    I cannot think of too many practical uses for Natal that have me excited or even thinking this is the future. I see a lot of people who say "omg, the gaming uses for Natal are great, the non-gaming uses are even better!" Well, I see a lot of that, but I don't see anyone providing specific examples.

    Voice commands were used pretty effectively in Tom Clancy's Endwar. Works pretty well with MS Sync too, in cars. Speech-to-text programs have been around forever, and would sure make it easier to type in character/profile names, XBL codes, IMs, etc.

    At E3, the Ruse demo on MS Surface was pretty slick. If Natal can read hand positions, I don't see why it couldn't replicate multitouch-esque gestures, without the whole "having to buy a $15,000 coffee table" thing.

    Imagine being able to build your car in Forza 4 or Banjo: Nuttier & Boltier using Natal, or building a Spore creature. It could be like Robert Downey Jr. designing the Iron Man suit.

    The only issue with that sort of shenanigans is a total lack of tactile feedback making coordination extraordinarily difficult.

    I don't think MS Surface has tactile feedback, and Ruse is an RTS. vid

    I agree precise manipulation could be an issue, and most of the Ruse vid consists of the guy playing around with the in-game camera. It depends on how precise the camera is.

    Then again, Your Shape for Wii (trailer) seems to suggest its camera (which looks like a normal webcam) is precise enough that you can confirm menu selections simply by nodding your head.

    BubbaT on
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    BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I foresee Natal version 2 will have cameras all over your room so it never misses anything and can see all range of movements from any direction any where in the room. The cameras will able to see any movement at any speed no matter how little it is and even if it's behind your back.

    Buraisu on
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    djkillerdjkiller Registered User new member
    edited June 2009
    I loved the eyetoy, but never found a game that kept me happy for more than 5-10 minutes.
    I bought a WII and then the balance board, same problem.
    The devices just aren't precise enough and are ignored by developers for hardcore gamers D:

    Also, nowadays the gaming industry can't live with just hardcore gamers, other audiences are needed.

    You need good technology and then you will also get good games. New and different games.
    I understand what some people are saying, but gaming must and will evolve.

    I could imagine someone saying "why should I need an analogue device to play pacman!"
    Personally at the moment I prefer a mouse and a keyboard to play an fps, I can't get a precise aim with the console gamepads.

    I've lived the history of games from pong up to todays games. I've used 'sticks', joysticks, keyboards, mouse and gamepads. I'm excited what can come next once the technology is mature enough!
    Will that technology be Project Natal, PS3 motion controllers? I hope so cause I'm not that young (46) and can't really wait too long :P

    djkiller on
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    psychotixpsychotix __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
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    nlawalkernlawalker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I have my doubts about Natal's implementation (lag, imprecision, and of course the failure of developers to use it appropriately), but I think the idea is the best direction for on-the-couch console gaming. This kind of control being packaged with a system out of the box is the future, I guarantee it.

    Why? It's so flexible. No controller required means you can interact with the system in other ways simultaneously (a controller or pair of controllers in your hands). It has the potential to augment literally every kind of control scheme already in use in a way that actually adds to the experience and isn't gimmicky. Even if you are playing first-person shooters on your couch - why not throw in the option of real-time leaning and head tracking? Additionally, it offers voice recognition and standard camera features as well. Again, I have my doubts about this particular implementation, but a box like Natal is the way things are going to be.

    Expensive? Of course, but costs of development come down over time. Picture this kind of thing two or three generations out - you'd be stupid to release a system that didn't have integrated camera/voice/complex tracking features. MS just happened to demo it first with Natal, but this is the right direction to head in for everyone.

    nlawalker on
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    Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Having worked with mocap, I don't think people realize how complicated it is.

    When using professional mocap with a visual setup (as opposed to magnetic or mechanical), you need markers, a green screen, and at least a dozen cameras (upwards to 60).
    And even then, the data you get is worthless unless a professional cleans it up afterward. Tracking software often fucks up, confusing your knee for your elbow, or simply not having line of sight on a marker anymore.
    This is using equipment that cost 20 to 50 grand for the cheap studios, professional staff, and isn't real-time.

    If you don't use markers, you lose resolution. If you don't cover every wall with cameras, you lose information and the tracking software is that much more likely to fuck up. If you don't have a professional animator review the data before it goes live, then you're relying entirely on the tracking software.

    If a tech like this truly existed, it would revolutionize not only the game industry, but the visual effects and medical industries. Allow me to be skeptical.

    Mei Hikari on
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    exisexis Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    neophilus wrote: »
    Why is this technology only being developed for a gaming system and not for PC's in general? It could revolutionize the way people interact with computers. I don't see keyboards going away any time soon but mice and trackballs are starting to look like stone age technology compared to what is being presented in Natal. More and more jobs are forcing people behind a PC at work all day - if anyone has put 8+ hours in at work using a mouse 5 days a week and still continues a serious hobby as a PC gamer at night then you know what kind of cramping/carpal tunnel symptoms can start to creep up.

    It just seems to me that modern gaming requires subtle movements and precise button manipulation that wouldn't be done justice by a motion/spatial sensing technology such as this. Games would either have to be dumbed-down to suit this technology, or motion sensing would have to be tacked on as a gimmick.

    A mouse is a very basic input device compared to a modern console controller - it captures only one movemnt on an x/y access, has 2-3 buttons and a scroll wheel. This type of input could easily be replaced by a Natal-like device, AND has the potential to sell to a much larger market than the video game community.

    Actually I'm surprised Apple hasn't already developed technology like this for their computer systems.

    This stuff is constantly being researched in Human Computer Interaction. There are reasons it's usually difficult to push this stuff out to a real market. The big one is familiarity. People are resistant to change and a lot of PC users have been using a mouse and keyboard the entire the time they've been using a PC. Then there's the expense of developing this stuff, marketing it and packaging it, then trying to offer it as a competitor to a $10 mouse/keyboard combo. Tactile feedback is a big one. It makes a big difference being able to feel yourself click on something.

    Also mice allow you to make large movements with super-precise motions. You mention that gaming requires subtle movement, but so does regular office work if you want to preserve your hands. Sure something like Natal could track that, but how do you stop it from inadvertently tracking unintended movements. An example is a project one of my lecturers was telling us about awhile ago (I can't remember if it was by one of his PhD students or some whole other university) that tracked eye movement. You stared at a computer screen, and moving your visual focus to a particular position would effectively move the applications focus to that position. They did some testing with it and the major failing they found was that it was too easy to accidentally move your focus. You hear a fly? Your gaze flicks in that direction for a second. You stop to think while you're writing and realise your focus has shifted to the frame of the monitor, etc.

    It becomes a problem not really of how much you can capture, but how much you really should be capturing. With a mouse, movements are easily defined as intentional, because the mouse only moves when someone makes an effort to grasp it before shifting it around. It's not going to go haywire if you need to scratch your nose.

    edit: ugh slightly off-topic TOTP >.<

    exis on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So what you're saying is that in the end we'll just end up with full-body waggle?

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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    LegbaLegba He did. Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Natal was demo'd live on Late Night With Jimmy Fallon last night. Besides the usual tech demo, they also played Burnout Paradise. Video here.

    Legba on
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    vrstvrst Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I am completely uninterested in any of this whatsoever. All this focus on 'real life' controls in video games just feels like a step back for me. Sure, there are some aspects of this that might be interesting or useful in interactive media, but on the whole I just want to sit on my couch and play a fucking game instead of waggling my body around all the time.

    Also, I don't know if I am really interested in immersion as such, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have much to with how you control a game, and much more with your age and your imagination. Heck, when I was a child I was unbelievably scared of Gannon in the NES zelda, who consists of a bunch of hardly identifiable pixels. Heck, the generation before me was very 'immersed' in playing games on the early Atari type consoles. What the industry should work on is better games.

    vrst on
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    acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    vrst wrote: »
    I am completely uninterested in any of this whatsoever. All this focus on 'real life' controls in video games just feels like a step back for me. Sure, there are some aspects of this that might be interesting or useful in interactive media, but on the whole I just want to sit on my couch and play a fucking game instead of waggling my body around all the time.

    Also, I don't know if I am really interested in immersion as such, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have much to with how you control a game, and much more with your age and your imagination. Heck, when I was a child I was unbelievably scared of Gannon in the NES zelda, who consists of a bunch of hardly identifiable pixels. Heck, the generation before me was very 'immersed' in playing games on the early Atari type consoles. What the industry should work on is better games.

    true. But what the industry IS working on is getting money from people it would otherwise not be getting money from who also (usually) happen to have the most money earned per year which (may or may not, I'm not making the call) can potentially be spent on entertainment.

    Edit: And Project Natal seems like it could be quite successful at meeting the aforementioned objective.

    acidlacedpenguin on
    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
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    vrstvrst Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    vrst wrote: »
    I am completely uninterested in any of this whatsoever. All this focus on 'real life' controls in video games just feels like a step back for me. Sure, there are some aspects of this that might be interesting or useful in interactive media, but on the whole I just want to sit on my couch and play a fucking game instead of waggling my body around all the time.

    Also, I don't know if I am really interested in immersion as such, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have much to with how you control a game, and much more with your age and your imagination. Heck, when I was a child I was unbelievably scared of Gannon in the NES zelda, who consists of a bunch of hardly identifiable pixels. Heck, the generation before me was very 'immersed' in playing games on the early Atari type consoles. What the industry should work on is better games.

    true. But what the industry IS working on is getting money from people it would otherwise not be getting money from who also (usually) happen to have the most money earned per year which (may or may not, I'm not making the call) can potentially be spent on entertainment.

    Edit: And Project Natal seems like it could be quite successful at meeting the aforementioned objective.

    Sure, sure. Obviously they want to make money and tap into untapped markets, but I wish they would just stop calling it the OMG NEW REVOLUTION IN GAMING. I know it's marketing but my nerdrage burns nonetheless.

    vrst on
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    acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I know I know, we just have to wait it out. We have to survive this mutant apocalypse!

    acidlacedpenguin on
    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
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    FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    In the new GTA, you're going to be able to take the camera outside and scan your car. Then, you can drive around in the game in your parent's car, running old ladies over and pulling off drive-bys.

    THE FUTURE!

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone see Natal demoed on Jimmy Fallon last night besides me?

    UnbreakableVow on
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    AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone see Natal demoed on Jimmy Fallon last night besides me?

    Just the guy who posted a link 5-6 posts above yours!

    Allforce on
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    PacifistPacifist Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That True Blood dude has some skills.

    Pacifist on
    XBL: Pacifist NJ
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