[L4D I & II] More details, link in OP. Also, behave.

Flippy_D

Well Holy Shit Alrighty.

Well sir we got us some motherfuckin' nerdrage. Exhibit A:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/49968.html

Welcome to Left 4 Dead 2, the surprisingly cynical-looking sequel to the game that spawned a thousand ragequits. Here is a preview. Here is a podcast. There are lots of new additions, such as:

- 4 completely new survivors (Uncle Phil, John Cusack, Jada Pinkett-Smith and Shia LaBeouf)
- New firearms
- Smarter Director
- Airstrikes
- Fire-immune zombies
- Incendiary ammo
- At least two new infected including one 'miniboss' style chap called the Charger
- Adaptive mapping (paths change depending how well you play)
- New weather system
- Chainsaws and other melee weapons
- Wandering witches
- Retooled 'gauntlet' panic events that oppose camping
- 5 campaigns with versus, out of the box
- 1 new, as-yet undisclosed gameplay mode
- 'Forwards compatability' with user-created content (custom maps will work in both games)
- Sun! Though not all maps are set during daytime
- Release date: November (Valve time)

PC Gamer article summary.

Tonne of fan-gathered information.

I'll post more info after the initial storm has quietened down and we know a bit more. The game is set in the south, quite evidently in New Orleans. The Government presumably doesn't care about black zombies as they are shelling the bejesus out of it.

The nerdy battle-lines are clear.

On the one side, you have what we might call Valve Loyalists. Citing Valve's impressive track record and pointing out that we really have precious little information on the game, the predominant message is 'have some faith'. This includes such things as gameplay remaining fresh, and the characters being as likeable as the original four. They certainly have a point, and it's important to remember that Valve are (notoriously) always changing things right up until release. And we have only seen a tiny bit of footage thus far.

Then you have the cynics, who are a little more disparate. Some are saying that this is too soon and that they feel L4D is being abandoned. Similarly, some feel like they didn't get their money's worth on the original. Others simply think that it won't be possible to make a whole other standalone game using recycled concepts and assets whilst having it still be worth the money. Others can't help feeling they paid for what was ultimately the beta version of the game.

We know very little. It seems, as I said, cynical. Rushing out a game was never Valve's style. But we'll see.

Chet, L4D Team Leader wrote:

"We're in a weird position. Schizophrenic as we are, we'll continue working on L4D1 as we work on L4D2."

Due to the kerfuffle over the new game, I am going to elide some of the old stuff, mainly the 'best times' section (which can still be found here). Most people are friends with the people whose score they care about, I would venture. The rest of the salient information about the original game can be found behind this attractive spoiler:

System Requirements for PC:

Minimum:
Supported OS: Microsoft Windows XP / Vista / Vista64
Processor: Pentium 4 3.0GHz
Memory: 1 GB
Graphics: 128 MB, Shader model 2.0, ATI 9600, NVidia 6600 or better
Hard Drive: At least 7.5 GB of free space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card

Recommended:
Supported OS: Microsoft Windows XP / Vista / Vista64
Processor: Intel core 2 duo 2.4GHz
Memory: 1 GB
Graphics: Shader model 3.0, NVidia 7600, ATI X1600 or better

Steam Groups
Armadeaddon
Aussie/NZ PA + Friends


Console Commands
http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf

Servers
PA L4D - Job's Server #1 †
IP: 208.167.234.204:27015

PA L4D - Job's Versus Server †
IP: 208.167.243.145:27015

Penny-Arcade L4D Brains4Lyfe
IP: 208.167.234.193:27015

PA L4D - SSMans Server †
IP: 208.167.234.219:27015

PA L4D - Raoul Duke's Server †
IP: 208.167.247.233:27015

Password for all is wang.


Basic Survival Suggestions

* Friendly fire is ON at all times. Please try to remember this when moving around other survivors. Accidents are bound to happen but most can be avoided by hugging walls and crouching if you decide to take the lead.
* Team members cannot take friendly fire damage when pinned or constricted.
* Melee is your friend. This can give you some much needed breathing room and also separates nearby Infected from you so fellow survivors can shoot them easier. You can also melee in the middle of reloading, so when in doubt, melee.
* Boomers splash vomit upon death. Melee a Boomer before shooting to avoid being caught in the splash radius.
* Melee will free a pounced or Smoker-constricted team member.
* You can heal other survivors with med kits. Simply stand next to them with the med kit equipped and use your secondary function key, whatever that may be. This also applies to pain pills, which you hand to them. Be aware that doing so will switch whatever that survivor is holding for the pills. So try to hand them over when the survivor isn't in a combat situation.
* To stop an AI-controlled survivor from healing you, take out your own med kit.
* Hunters should use their right click attack unless they want to distract or pin, as it does more damage, hits multiple targets, and you stay completely silent when standing.

Information Compendium by Sol Invictus

The Left 4 Dictionary @ Hellforge

No Great Name

Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.

Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.

He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

Unearthly Stew

I for one welcome our new L4D2 overlords.

elevature

Toons you should email that to Gabe Newell.

Professor Phobos

I wonder if this entire debate could have been avoided if:

-They made it clear that L4D1 was getting new campaigns as free DLC. (I still hope that we will, though it doesn't seem to be the case)

-L4D2 was instead "L4D: Episodes" or something, billed as an expansion pack.

Olivaw

You've posted that three times now, Toon

I think we get it

You can stop anytime

Sorenson

I will say this, killing zombie hordes to the faint hint of New Orleans jazz tickles my fancy but good.

EDIT: You know what intrigues me? How the zombies look so fresh compared to how they were in L4D 1, like Valve just borrowed that one texture pack that makes the infected more human-toned. I know New Orleans is more likely to give you a tan than Pennsylvania, but dang.

No Great Name

Can't stop

Flippy_D

My exquisite pun is wasted on you heathens.

EvilBadman

Flippy_D wrote: »

My exquisite pun is wasted on you heathens.

The announcement (and backlash) was more than two hours ago. I am of the mind that this should be some sort of tie-in product to the first L4D instead of a standalone game, even with the new survivors.

Also, please god don't be $50 again.

Olivaw

No Great Name wrote: »

Can't stop

You should

DeMoN

No Great Name wrote: »

Can't stop

addicted to the shindig

MrDelish

I wanted new thread but noooo

tofu

I don't like the new characters either.

Gaffero

Like it or hate it, Valve has everyone talking about L4D again despite the new goodies in TF2. We can only hope this boils down to hype and hysteria and not "Valve borrowing reams from the EA playbook".

TwistedFate

No Great Name wrote: »

Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.

Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.

He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

So, people saying IT'S VALVE, TRUST THEM are ignoring the arguments of why people are upset, but a lot of what I'm seeing is people complaining because they thought this game was going to be supported akin to Team Fortress 2. I mean, I get the whole $50 thing, but I think basing a video game purchase on content and not utility is asinine. Does Left 4 Dead, even now have $50 of content? I think so.

Have the hours I've sunk into Left 4 Dead been worth $50? In a world where it costs me about 8 bucks to see a movie or 20 bucks to buy a DVD, hell yeah it has been.

If they want to continue releasing stuff for it, cool. I'll download the updates and play it.

If they want to release this, frankly, I'll buy it. Even if it's just the next stop until Left 4 Dead 3 coming 2010, I'll still buy it.

Frankly, there's enough new content for my tastes. I'm not particularly taken right now by the new survivors, but we don't know much about them. I do like the idea of the 5 campaigns being told in a linear fashion that allow a story to be told without ruining a drop in and play aspect. I like all of the new things they are suggesting with the director. I like the melee and the new infected.

Basically, reading this link

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-exclusive-rps-preview/

makes me not feel bad at all about moving on to a new game. I got my $50 out of Left 4 Dead. Even after shiny and new Left 4 Dead, I'll still probably drop in from time to time on my old favorites.

But I think for this kind of game, what they are releasing is worthy of a distinction as a sequel, especially because of the quality of Valve's work. I will definitely take 5 campaigns that, from the sounds of it, will definitely be based on real world locations. Even if they look questionable right now, I'm sure the characters are going to be awesome, especially the mechanic and the gambler. New boss infected will affect how verus is played out. Specific design choices are being implemented to basically reinvent the game from a player's perspective in the sense that hiding in corners during triggered events and trying to gun it down familiar paths won't necessarily do much good for you anymore. And supposedly a new game mode to boot.

Frankly, I'll stick to my guns. Based on the 10 minutes or so of video we have right now and all of the information we have, this is definitely a purchase.

DeMoN

I don't even want to play as any of the new characters.
They are all very unappealing to me.

they better have charm

Lemming

Who knows for certain how much it's going to cost? Maybe it'll be cheaper if you already own L4D? Why jump to conclusions?

To be honest, when I first heard about the expansion for L4D when they included all the new junk, the way they were publicizing it made me think they were going to charge for it at first. Did anybody else feel that way? Maybe it's a similar deal here and it won't cost as much, if anything. Who knows?

TwistedFate

Lemming wrote: »

Who knows for certain how much it's going to cost? Maybe it'll be cheaper if you already own L4D? Why jump to conclusions?

To be honest, when I first heard about the expansion for L4D when they included all the new junk, the way they were publicizing it made me think they were going to charge for it at first. Did anybody else feel that way? Maybe it's a similar deal here and it won't cost as much, if anything. Who knows?

It's idle guessing, but given what they're doing, I'd be SHOCKED if they're not going to charge at least $30 for this game.

Dashui

Lemming wrote: »

Who knows for certain how much it's going to cost? Maybe it'll be cheaper if you already own L4D? Why jump to conclusions?

To be honest, when I first heard about the expansion for L4D when they included all the new junk, the way they were publicizing it made me think they were going to charge for it at first. Did anybody else feel that way? Maybe it's a similar deal here and it won't cost as much, if anything. Who knows?

That's the rumor. If so, I would see no reason to complain.

Jurassic Spaceprancer

I'm so glad I bought L4D two weekends ago and have invested about 3.2 hours into it (thanks, Steam). GAH.

So, what, is Valve suddenly taking the Madden approach now?

Dashui

Jurassic Spaceprancer wrote: »

I'm so glad I bought L4D two weekends ago and have invest about 3.2 hours into it (thanks, Steam). GAH.

So, what, is Valve suddenly taking the Madden approach?

When they complete a project, they ask their team what they want to do next. Not just the heads of the studio. INot just the publisher. They actually ask the team itself, and they all wanted to do another Left 4 Dead.

TwistedFate

Dashui wrote: »

Jurassic Spaceprancer wrote: »

I'm so glad I bought L4D two weekends ago and have invest about 3.2 hours into it (thanks, Steam). GAH.

So, what, is Valve suddenly taking the Madden approach?

When they complete a project, they ask their team what they want to do next. Not just the heads of the studio. INot just the publisher. They actually ask the team itself, and they all wanted to do another Left 4 Dead.

On top of that, I would argue that it's a gross oversimplification of a game we don't know much about to even try to compare the content to something like a Madden model.

EDIT:

Why did we not make two separate threads?

tofu

Why did it take them so long to come out with the Survival pack (including the two vs maps that were promised at launch) but they already have a full fledged sequel ready to go a year after release? With 5 new campaigns with vs no less.

Jurassic Spaceprancer

Yeah, that question was kind of a rhetorical one to illustrate my frustration. I understand Gabe Newell is not a slave driver.

Dashui

TwistedFate wrote: »

Dashui wrote: »

Jurassic Spaceprancer wrote: »

I'm so glad I bought L4D two weekends ago and have invest about 3.2 hours into it (thanks, Steam). GAH.

So, what, is Valve suddenly taking the Madden approach?

When they complete a project, they ask their team what they want to do next. Not just the heads of the studio. INot just the publisher. They actually ask the team itself, and they all wanted to do another Left 4 Dead.

On top of that, I would argue that it's a gross oversimplification of a game we don't know much about to even try to compare the content to something like a Madden model.

Yeah, and even though it's early we do have some nice details about new features. I like how they want to make it more difficult, how you can't just camp a spot in a corner and live through everything. It makes you constantly move. I also like the Director changes the layout of the maps each time you play. You won't be able to memorize the exact route. And five campaigns instead of four? That sounds pretty fun to me.

If we do get a discount for owning the first one, I'm all over this.

Sterica

I don't buy games expecting future content, so I'm not upset over my purchase of the game.

But I also don't run out and get rehashes on day two, so I'm waiting to hear on real features being added or a price that justifies the lack of said features. Otherwise, I'll be patient and wait for the inevitable weekend sale.

EvilBadman

My assumption for the Madden argument is the game itself appears to be running the same base engine as L4D, but with a different Director and new features such as melee weapons/incendiary ammo/new specials. I mean, nothing shouted to me that the demo couldn't have been running in an existing L4D mod server.

This said, I am still frothing at the mouth.

Zombie Monkey

I cannot wait

kaliyama

My anger will be directly proportionate to the price point. If I can buy this for $20, I might. If the original game with 8 maps instead of 4, I wouldn't be angry, either. But we got hosed.

jonxp

Hooray for Louisiana 4 Dead

Zombie Monkey

i didnt, 600+ hours and counting

Anyone with over 20 hours shouldnt feel hosed in my opinion

Quality of content always trumps quantity of content, and what was contained within l4d was quality

THe only legitimate beef is the vs maps, which ill grant

MrDelish

Surprising that everyone is whining about the new survivors

Like, before L4D came out I was like "who cares about survivors, let me just shoot zombie mans." I'm sure the new characters will have as much, well, character as the old ones

tofu

The hours played argument is bullshit. I've probably spend tons of hours playing Tetris over the years but I wouldn't ever pay $50 bucks for it.

Olivaw

DeMoN wrote: »

I don't even want to play as any of the new characters.
They are all very unappealing to me.

they better have charm

The guy in the suit appeals to me

He looks like the smartass of the group

Ziac45

I will buy this day 1, Left 4 dead has been one of my most played games and is one of my favorite games on the xbox. I am a little sad at the lack of bill and francis as they were my favorites but I trust valve to make these characters like able.

chasehatesbears

Why is there no lawnmower for melee?


EDIT: Coach is the new Bill.

Sterica

Zombie Monkey wrote: »

i didnt, 600+ hours and counting

Anyone with over 20 hours shouldnt feel hosed in my opinion

Quality of content always trumps quantity of content, and what was contained within l4d was quality

THe only legitimate beef is the vs maps, which ill grant

Surprisingly, people have different experiences! Yes, Virginia, it is a legitimate complaint that many of us didn't find the four campaigns to be meaty enough.

But I have paid for less hours of entertainment, so I will not whine. But I will say that Left 4 Dead didn't give me a ton of mileage. Yours may vary.

Jurassic Spaceprancer

EvilBadman wrote: »

My assumption for the Madden argument is the game itself appears to be running the same base engine as L4D, but with a different Director and new features such as melee weapons/incendiary ammo/new specials. I mean, nothing shouted to me that the demo couldn't have been running in an existing L4D mod server.

This said, I am still frothing at the mouth.

Thank you.

No Great Name wrote: »

Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.

Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.

He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

When people buy the game after reading a quote like that, and then they turn around and announce a sequel, those people might rightly feel gypped.

I know I'll play L4D and get my money's worth, but I don't think you can call anyone naive for expecting Valve to support the game for at least a year before moving ahead with a sequel, especially when you consider that Steam purchases cannot be traded or resold.

chasehatesbears

What surprises me most is the risk they are taking with splitting the player base. This is what makes me think it wont be full price.

Zombie Monkey

When people say splitting the player base what do they mean exactly, and how is it unto itself a negative thing?

Some people will buy it, some wont