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Forza Motorsport 3 - Release: 10/27/09 (US) | Demo OUT NOW [on X360]

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    StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    9.5.

    Stupornaut on

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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    also, I really wish we got the game before the weekend rather than after it, I mean what the fuck.

    Daedalus on
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    XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    mspencer wrote: »
    For those of you eagerly awaiting your Fanatec wheels . . . do any of you also own a 360 wireless wheel? I have an old one that I still enjoy using, but I'd have no problem upgrading to a Fanatec wheel with 6-speed shifter, pedals, and a wheel stand if the difference is significant enough. I can't wait to hear what you guys report about the wheel.

    (Isn't the Fanatec wheel the only gaming accessory so far, other than USB microphones, to work with the PC, 360, and PS3?)

    I'm sure the clutch and shifter alone is a significant enough difference, as well as the force feedback (3 motors vs 1). I'm going with the high-end pedals as well, meaning vibration in the brake pedal.

    And yeah, it's the only peripheral that works across all three platforms.

    XiaNaphryz on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I don't know if I can wait until Level 21 to get a Ford GT

    NotASenator on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't know if I can wait until Level 21 to get a Ford GT

    The old one is better anyway, get that. The American auto industry peaked in the late 60s anyway, right?
    only half-serious, of course

    Daedalus on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Daedalus wrote: »
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't know if I can wait until Level 21 to get a Ford GT

    The old one is better anyway, get that. The American auto industry peaked in the late 60s anyway, right?
    only half-serious, of course

    Oh, I will have both, and I will love them.

    NotASenator on
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    mspencermspencer PAX [ENFORCER] Council Bluffs, IARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    XiaNaphryz wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    For those of you eagerly awaiting your Fanatec wheels . . . do any of you also own a 360 wireless wheel? I have an old one that I still enjoy using, but I'd have no problem upgrading to a Fanatec wheel with 6-speed shifter, pedals, and a wheel stand if the difference is significant enough. I can't wait to hear what you guys report about the wheel.

    (Isn't the Fanatec wheel the only gaming accessory so far, other than USB microphones, to work with the PC, 360, and PS3?)

    I'm sure the clutch and shifter alone is a significant enough difference, as well as the force feedback (3 motors vs 1). I'm going with the high-end pedals as well, meaning vibration in the brake pedal.

    And yeah, it's the only peripheral that works across all three platforms.

    Oh, absolutely. What I've read so far -- if true -- is more than enough to sell me a set right now. I just want to hear from some PA folk that it really is significantly better. Not just full of more "features" -- that the features really do give you more information about the simulation state or game world and/or the features really do a better job of putting existing muscle memory skills to use.

    I don't really have any concerns about the product that other people need to know about, and I'm not trying to warn anybody away from anything. I just want to learn more.

    Edit (because this is a dumb extra thought that doesn't deserve its own post) : I think it's awesome that the industry is big enough to support these high end specialty products. We're gamers, we grew up on this stuff, but we're older and have money now. This is totally not supported by fact and isn't a debate-quality opinion, but I feel like ten or fifteen years ago people would've laughed at game controllers that cost more than consoles. Who would buy them? Now, look at us. :-)

    mspencer on
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    When i get some extra cash and build a cockpit, the Fanatec is the wheel that will go into it. There is no other option.

    Veevee on
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    FiziksFiziks Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The only fear I have of a clutch pedal is not being able to feel the friction point. Does anyone know if the clutch pedal has some resistance halfway through?

    Fiziks on
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    XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    mspencer wrote: »
    XiaNaphryz wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    For those of you eagerly awaiting your Fanatec wheels . . . do any of you also own a 360 wireless wheel? I have an old one that I still enjoy using, but I'd have no problem upgrading to a Fanatec wheel with 6-speed shifter, pedals, and a wheel stand if the difference is significant enough. I can't wait to hear what you guys report about the wheel.

    (Isn't the Fanatec wheel the only gaming accessory so far, other than USB microphones, to work with the PC, 360, and PS3?)

    I'm sure the clutch and shifter alone is a significant enough difference, as well as the force feedback (3 motors vs 1). I'm going with the high-end pedals as well, meaning vibration in the brake pedal.

    And yeah, it's the only peripheral that works across all three platforms.

    Oh, absolutely. What I've read so far -- if true -- is more than enough to sell me a set right now. I just want to hear from some PA folk that it really is significantly better. Not just full of more "features" -- that the features really do give you more information about the simulation state or game world and/or the features really do a better job of putting existing muscle memory skills to use.

    I don't really have any concerns about the product that other people need to know about, and I'm not trying to warn anybody away from anything. I just want to learn more.

    Edit (because this is a dumb extra thought that doesn't deserve its own post) : I think it's awesome that the industry is big enough to support these high end specialty products. We're gamers, we grew up on this stuff, but we're older and have money now. This is totally not supported by fact and isn't a debate-quality opinion, but I feel like ten or fifteen years ago people would've laughed at game controllers that cost more than consoles. Who would buy them? Now, look at us. :-)

    I won't be getting my wheel until the next batch ships, so I can't comment yet. But if what the devs say about how they use force feedback is true where different things utilize different force feedback motors:
    What we do is we simulate torque alignment on the front wheels, like when you're drifting or sliding, the front wheels want to track in a straight line, and we simulate the torque alignment with the force feedback of the wheel. We simulate traction with rumble, so when the rear wheels are breaking loose and starting to vibrate and scrub, we simulate that with rumble so you can feel traction with the rumble and torque alignment of the front wheel with feedback and it gives you a little bit better an experience to predict where the car is and how to catch it and that kind of thing. And that combined with the new Fanatec wheel, I think is pretty cool.

    then combining that with the right ABS settings to get vibration in the wheel and pedals just prior to wheel lock should give you a ton of extra feedback info to react to.
    Fiziks wrote: »
    The only fear I have of a clutch pedal is not being able to feel the friction point. Does anyone know if the clutch pedal has some resistance halfway through?

    Various reports have commented on the clutch feeling like one (as opposed to a brake or gas pedal). The more important thing is that the game does model each car having different clutch modeling/behavior:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSbHNORKcGg&fmt=18

    Some other vids showing clutch in use:

    Jump to about the 05:23 mark

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eohKGvHAQKI

    XiaNaphryz on
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    Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Daedalus wrote: »
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't know if I can wait until Level 21 to get a Ford GT

    The old one is better anyway, get that. The American auto industry peaked in the late 60s anyway, right?
    only half-serious, of course

    Heh. Actually, I've given some thought to this. I'm well-aware that you were pretty much kidding, but let's think about it for a second, if you'll humor me...

    I totally understand all the "muscle car guys" who say stuff like "they don't make 'em like they used to", but consider the circumstances. Cars from the muscle car era were made pretty much without inhibition. None of the fuel or emissions regulations that we have today. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm estimating that they pretty much fell within the range of 300-500hp depending on the model and trim package. Then in the early '70s, all these regulations began showing up, and horsepower dropped across the board. The "end of the muscle car era", if you will. Now consider the muscle car revival we've seen in the last five years. We've got the 'stang, the Camaro, the since-discontinued GTO, the Charger, the Challenger, etc. These cars were designed in accordance to all the aforementioned regulations that so badly nerfed the muscle cars of old, and it is not uncommon for a 2009 or 2010 model to reach 425hp. Maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there, but I'm pretty damn impressed by the fact that we're now able to design and build a car that will out-drive and out-handle anything from the original muscle car era all while adhering to these very strict standards. Granted we don't do it nearly as well as the Europeans, but that pretty much goes without saying.

    Am I totally off the mark here? I think it's a pretty solid argument for the "old vs. new" topic.

    Triple B on
    Steam/XBL/PSN: FiveAgainst1
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Triple B wrote: »

    Granted we don't do it nearly as well as the Europeans, but that pretty much goes without saying.

    The CTS-V, Corvette ZR1, Dodge Viper ACR, Ford GT, Saleen S7... They all say hello.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    3 of those 5 vehicles come from companies that have financially collapsed.

    you were saying.

    Fatty McBeardo on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    3 of those 5 vehicles come from companies that have financially collapsed.

    you were saying.

    Last time I checked stock prices and financial returns didn't make cars go around tracks faster or handle better.

    Edit:

    The quote responded to was:
    I'm pretty damn impressed by the fact that we're now able to design and build a car that will out-drive and out-handle anything from the original muscle car era all while adhering to these very strict standards. Granted we don't do it nearly as well as the Europeans, but that pretty much goes without saying.



    If it had been
    I'm pretty damn impressed by the fact that we're now able to run a profitable car company. Granted we don't do it nearly as well as the Europeans, but that pretty much goes without saying.

    then your point would be more than valid.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    i'm pretty sure that in order to make cars you need to be able to stay in business.

    and i'm not sure if 'throw an enormous engine into something with a mediocre suspension and hope for the best' really counts as doing things well.

    Fatty McBeardo on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    i'm pretty sure that in order to make cars you need to be able to stay in business.

    and i'm not sure if 'throw an enormous engine into something with a mediocre suspension and hope for the best' really counts as doing things well.

    http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

    Nordschleife meet Fatty, Fatty meet Nordshleife.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    Fatty McBeardo on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    And again when it comes down to it the Viper ACR and Corvette ZR1 still beat anything production from a major European manufacturer that isn't an Enzo around a race track (granted that the Veyron hasn't been tested yet). So cry more?

    Jealous Deva on
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    FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    That'd be valid if a transverse leaf spring acted anything like a normal set of leaf springs you'd find in a truck. But, by all means, give me a breakdown of why they're inferior. If you could keep your math in metric, that'd be great.

    Fats on
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    tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    Ox carts have transverse leaf springs?

    tofu on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Regarding prize cars, I really wish they'd provided an alternative for people who already own the cars. I don't want to look at the list but it's only a matter of time until I win something I already have. In this case it would have been cool to be offered a choice between the car and a couple of alternatives of lesser value or even a chunk of money. If I have a Veyron upgraded and tuned and then I'm awarded a stock one is it of any use to me at all? The only use I can think is to gift it to a friend, but if it's a prize car it's only a matter of time until they win it anyway.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    freelancepolicefreelancepolice Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    While I'm pretty terrible at these sort of games, I do find them very compulsive to play.

    things that are great:
    * The menus - huge gigantic improvement over 2, which I still associate with the great red ring disaster of 2007
    * 60fps - it really does make a difference when developers get it nailed. It's not a deal breaker as such but it's very easy on the eyes.
    * They've nailed the feeling of speeding out an apex on a perfect racing line to take the lead.
    * Car porn yay

    Things that aren't great:
    * The loading times - even with an install it really removes that "just one more race" for me.

    freelancepolice on
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    OrthojiOrthoji Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If someone wants to go to my storefront and buy my (default) tuning setup for 1,000, I will do the same for you.

    Orthoji on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm getting addicted to buying horrible cars, giving them horrible paintjobs and then gifting them to friends. Really liking that I'm already raking in pretty substantial amounts of money. Got my S-Class Gallardo going nicely so now to throw my money on impulse purchases.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    LCDXXLCDXX A flask of wood and glass Terre Haute, INRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    PA Forza forum debates are entertaining.

    Do proceed.

    popcorn.gif

    LCDXX on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    hey guys, what page was that series of things you have to do to get those preorder cars on? i cant find it

    Joolander on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Joolander wrote: »
    hey guys, what page was that series of things you have to do to get those preorder cars on? i cant find it

    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/blogs/turn_10s_forza_motorsport_blog/archive/2009/10/16/forza-motorsport-3-pre-order-car-giveaway.aspx

    Daedalus on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    cool, thanks daed

    Joolander on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Veevee wrote: »
    One other thing that can uncertify your times is doing something to uncertify in the last sector of a lap. This will uncertify the next lap as well.

    This. This right here.

    I hate this with an unholy passion and it is infuriating. The sins of the previous lap visited upon the next one.
    :x

    darleysam on
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    NegrodamusNegrodamus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Eh. It makes sense though.

    Negrodamus on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah I can see the logic, as long as it's that you shouldn't be using non-track areas to get a speed boost for one quick lap. But still, if I slip a wheel off a couple of corners from the end because I'm trying to go fast, it's really, really irritating that it wipes out the entire next lap anyway.

    darleysam on
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    Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Triple B wrote: »

    Granted we don't do it nearly as well as the Europeans, but that pretty much goes without saying.

    The CTS-V, Corvette ZR1, Dodge Viper ACR, Ford GT, Saleen S7... They all say hello.

    Those cars are in different classes from the ones I mentioned. My argument was mostly pointed at the muscle car genre. The "Europe does it better" part was basically intended to state that European cars are built better and tend to last longer with less maintenance. My step-mom's 500SL that's got 200k miles on it and has only ever been in the shop for the changing of fluids says hello. That said, I realize that putting both points in the same paragraph made my intentions seem different from what they actually were.

    Triple B on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    europe has muscle cars?


    :P

    Joolander on
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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Camino Viejo Extreme Track is awesome fun. Something about progressing from one track to the next and seeing your surroundings change reminds me of old games like Outrun.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Fats wrote: »
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    That'd be valid if a transverse leaf spring acted anything like a normal set of leaf springs you'd find in a truck. But, by all means, give me a breakdown of why they're inferior. If you could keep your math in metric, that'd be great.

    The leaf spring implementation on the recent gen Corvettes isn't bad (in fact it's great if you have no plans to ever modify the suspension or need to adjust stiffness, etc) and it was kind of a cheap shot for me to poke at it, but they do serve as an example of the turd polishing American carmakers are known for. To be fair, there are famous Euro brands who are guilty of the same thing.

    I'll be serious for a minute - I'm not an ME. My understanding is the Vette transverse leaf spring's shortcomings are related to cost, packaging, and a lack of adjustment. A composite leaf spring costs twice as much as a pair of steel coil springs to produce. Since each spring runs the width of the car that leads to design/packaging problems that don't apply to coil springs. For example, some owners running headers and/or exhaust cutouts have had their rear suspensions collapse due to hot exhaust gases causing the composite spring to fail. Most importantly (IMO): changing the spring rates has a more profound effect on roll stiffness, since the leaf springs are used as supplemental anti-roll bars on recent generation Vettes. Which is why a switch to coilovers is a common early modification made by owners who frequently track their cars, not to mention race teams that need to adjust their setups quickly and easily.

    Fatty McBeardo on
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    Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Joolander wrote: »
    europe has muscle cars?


    :P

    Mercedes Benz AMG division says hello to you!

    Fatty McBeardo on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    muscle cars are kind of an American and Australian phenomenon

    AMGs are nice, but they are not muscle cars

    Joolander on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well it's not like the term has any kind of standard definition.

    Things get named muscle cars whenever people feel like it.

    xzzy on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    yeah

    i just never hear "German Muscle" applied to cars

    Joolander on
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    bongibongi regular
    edited October 2009
    Like I said, stick a giant engine into something and congratulations, you've overcome your ancient and crappy suspension designs.

    The Corvette has leaf springs in the rear.

    Leaf springs.

    You know what else has leaf springs?

    Ox carts.

    And again when it comes down to it the Viper ACR and Corvette ZR1 still beat anything production from a major European manufacturer that isn't an Enzo around a race track (granted that the Veyron hasn't been tested yet). So cry more?

    Why don't Maserati and Pagani count?

    bongi on
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