Swordmasters don't blow. Neither do Black Orcs. There are Black Orcs in our alliance who love their class and kick ass with it.
I was liking it as two hander. I'll probably switch back. Running around Spamming AoEs that stole all stats at the same time was crazy fun.
I just feel that my Black Orc is pretty worthless outside of hold the line, in tank spec. He gets torn up by every other melee class when in melee. Ironically, he has no trouble with Bright Wizards, one on one. By contrast, last time I played him, on release, he was a melee monster with a shield, impossible to kill and dealing acceptable damage.
DisruptorX2 on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Discord is kind of like a "Not really sure what to do with my dude" line.
It's a good line for a full rvr tank and a good line for a full offensive tank. Almost everybody has some kind of magic damage, if you want to you can make healers life hell by specifically putting your dot on as many people as possible (its so much fun to watch a group healer melt themselves with this even though it does take a lot of effort) or just outright negate healing done while you are beating on mans.
Ravage does the best damage out of all main attacks.
And reducing everybodies wounds is the best thing.
But, you can also like, go full discord then just get the baneshield upgrade from the tanking tree, stick in backlash as well, and be a walking porcupine. Bw who hit you get hit by everything, backlash, fluctuation and baneshield. Lots of people like this.
There are builds that again get quake, rending and the greatweapon crit and nothing else. They don't need anything else with that though. :P At rr 50 a two hander could get the anti heal aura and wounds blast the people he's whacking on.
I think that would be a really nasty damage build, personally. Can't even run because he can reach out and touch you.
It's basically a jack of all trades line rather than a pure antimagic line.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Swordmasters don't blow. Neither do Black Orcs. There are Black Orcs in our alliance who love their class and kick ass with it.
I was liking it as two hander. I'll probably switch back. Running around Spamming AoEs that stole all stats at the same time was crazy fun.
I just feel that my Black Orc is pretty worthless outside of hold the line, in tank spec. He gets torn up by every other melee class when in melee. Ironically, he has no trouble with Bright Wizards, one on one. By contrast, last time I played him, on release, he was a melee monster with a shield, impossible to kill and dealing acceptable damage.
From my experience fighting sword masters the biggest advantages they have are spirit damage, abilities that increase their parry, absorb shields, and abilities that ignore block and parry. Black orcs baseline get none of this. We can spec for one absorb shield that blocks 520 damage. As with all current absorb shields this is pre mitigation.
For instance lets say your WH hits me for 500. Without an absorb shield my armor kicks in and reduces that to 125 (figure 75% reduction) with an absorb shield you hit me for 0 all 500 is absorbed and my shield has 20 left. In effect the shield only negated 125 damage. It is also now on cooldown. Swordmasters have 2, and I believe can spec for a third shield. While they also run into a similar problem, they can keep their shields up negating more damage.
Black orcs by default have 0 attacks that do anything other than armor damage. We can spec for WAAAAGH which is corporeal damage, debuffs corp resistance, and does not benefit from its own debuff. Yes that is correct, our single ability at 13 points in the tree does not benefit from the debuff it applies. Currently in the tracker, may at some point be fixed. Other sources of corp damage are loudmouth (whenever out bellows proc deals 200 corp damage to our target. After mitigation this usually ends up around 100. It can also be a major source of our damage. Yes thats right a 200 point attack 25% of the time pre mitigation ends up better than most of our other tactics.)
We have one undefendable attack, ya missed me. Requires us to block to use, does minimal damage, and lowers the targets melee damage by 20%.
Currently as the game stands now the only thing a sword and board black orc can consistently solo is Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Shadow Warriors. By solo I of course mean cause to run away because unless they charge us we will never be in melee range long enough to kill them. If we manage to root them which is one 60s cooldown we have to be in middle plan to snare them. Which means we have to hit them (50% chance of breaking root) then still be in range for the global cooldown and hope our snare lands. If it doesn't fights over. You will not get another shot before they either get back to their warcamp, or help arrives.
Black orcs are pure 100% block tanks. Against a target with capped offensive stat (str/int) the best shield currently in game gives you a base 16% chance to block. (To figure your base block chance at 40. Take your shields block value (412 for blocka of the doombull) divide by the offensive stat (1050 is the softcap) and multiply by 40.
Two handed weapons reduce chance to block by 10%, certain classes also get a debuff that reduces block chance by 10%. That gives me a 6% chance to negate all damage. There are two tactics that increase block. One by a flat 10%, one depending on our plan stage (it also increases parry) by 0 in no plan 5/5 in gud plan, and 10/10 in best plan. Considering how quickly we are cycle through our attacks this tactic is 100% useless outside of PVE.
If you want to play a guard bot, a full support tank then a sword and board blorc can be fine. Slotting big brawlin and running waagh you can run into groups and snare/disorient/ you will be fine. Your aoes can help wittle people not getting heals down, but understand this sword and board black orcs will rarely if ever kill anything by themselves.
If you want to kill anything with a blorc go two hander and play like an MDPS. If you have any questions about blorc specs, specific abilities, feel free to ask. I have spent over 1k gold respecing into every combination in all three trees that even remotely sounds viable. Black orcs are not "bad" they are just inferior to their order counterparts in a game that is constantly working to invalidate melee. By and large we suffer the same problems almost all melee dps does. We just live slightly longer and cant kill anything.
Here is my stats from realmwar if anyone is curious. I swap between the invader and sent gloves depending on if I want +66 str or +72 tough.
I just assumed it was just me being a nub, but yeah, blorc damage as tank spec is low. Lower than my salvation specced WP. Granted, she's 40, but also a healer in healer/wounds gear. And also doesn't do any noticeable damage, either. :x
Two hander is fun, but you need healing baaad. Shouldn't be an issue in guild groups, though.
I just assumed it was just me being a nub, but yeah, blorc damage as tank spec is low. Lower than my salvation specced WP. Granted, she's 40, but also a healer in healer/wounds gear. And also doesn't do any noticeable damage, either. :x
Two hander is fun, but you need healing baaad. Shouldn't be an issue in guild groups, though.
The problem with in guild groups is you do not really bring much to the table compared to chosen. Not sure blackguards they are the only thing i see less of than us. Chosen have auras, can spec for quake, and seem to offer a lot more utility. Black orcs? I can randomly steal stats that may or may not be of use to you, maybe give you 960 armor or 359 resistances if I run greenest, and the only CC of note is big brawling an AOE 40% snare and 25% disorient. Its not bad for slowing down people running away, but unless its multiple people are default snare works just as well, and lasts longer.
Blorcs are functional, and in a guild group can do decent. The problem is that they are inferior to order tanks, their DPS as defense tanks is practically nonexistant, and our previous claim to fame as being incredibly hard to kill no longer applies.
RIght now there is little reason aside from hold the line to not spec MDPS, strap a healer to your butt, and go nuts. If you dont have a healer you are just free RR.
Detharin on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
The stat steal is awesome, btw. Had someone putting it on me. Very good.
You don't want too many of a single archetype in a group. But I would take any of the three destruction tanks about equally if they are specced properly for rvr tanking. They each has a slightly different role. A proper rvr tank hits the healers and magic dps and is a hold the line bot, a good rvr chosen is generally a tough nut to crack that can fulfill a bunch of roles but needs to change up his auras so they can be complicated to play well even with twister, the black orc seems like a bit of both previous roles with some things the other two lack.
I wouldn't say either of them is clearly better in a group, only solo. They each bring some nice things to the table. Aoe snare? That's actually amazing. I would give up quake for that. Put him on postern defense then.
Don't look down on snares.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I just assumed it was just me being a nub, but yeah, blorc damage as tank spec is low. Lower than my salvation specced WP. Granted, she's 40, but also a healer in healer/wounds gear. And also doesn't do any noticeable damage, either. :x
Two hander is fun, but you need healing baaad. Shouldn't be an issue in guild groups, though.
The problem with in guild groups is you do not really bring much to the table compared to chosen. Not sure blackguards they are the only thing i see less of than us. Chosen have auras, can spec for quake, and seem to offer a lot more utility. Black orcs? I can randomly steal stats that may or may not be of use to you, maybe give you 960 armor or 359 resistances if I run greenest, and the only CC of note is big brawling an AOE 40% snare and 25% disorient. Its not bad for slowing down people running away, but unless its multiple people are default snare works just as well, and lasts longer.
Blorcs are functional, and in a guild group can do decent. The problem is that they are inferior to order tanks, their DPS as defense tanks is practically nonexistant, and our previous claim to fame as being incredibly hard to kill no longer applies.
RIght now there is little reason aside from hold the line to not spec MDPS, strap a healer to your butt, and go nuts. If you dont have a healer you are just free RR.
What happened to the previous claim to fame of not being hard to kill? When I was playing back in early December with my Chosen it seemed that Blorcs were always with more health. My toughness was crazy awesome though.
Enns on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
They still get the aoe knockback too right.
I saw a really good black orc protecting his healer. He snared them then a bit later knocked them all back. His healer, no longer obstructed by the hitboxes of his enemy, ran the fuck away and they couldn't keep up to follow him.
Chosen? I can quake them for 2 seconds and knockback a dude. But mostly I'm sitting there furiously snaring and hoping my healer can run and isn't snared himself. I have no way to make a large group of people suddenly get some distance from him. No way at all.
Seriously aoe snare is amazing.
If they have lost their knockback thats a different story for defense but still makes them a great pair to run in with the chosen. They get up to a group, black orc starts up his cycle, chosen quakes, orc snares. That group is now fucked while your zerg rolls over them.
Plusif the stats stack with chosen buffs, although I'm not sure on that, then they're a very good buff.
And if a black orc can take over my resistance aura for defense I can stick on better auras I'd rather have, like damage, anti magic barb and anti heal.
So from the point of view of someone wanting to cooperate, I think da greenest black orcs are pretty awesome.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Swordmasters don't blow. Neither do Black Orcs. There are Black Orcs in our alliance who love their class and kick ass with it.
I was liking it as two hander. I'll probably switch back. Running around Spamming AoEs that stole all stats at the same time was crazy fun.
I just feel that my Black Orc is pretty worthless outside of hold the line, in tank spec. He gets torn up by every other melee class when in melee. Ironically, he has no trouble with Bright Wizards, one on one. By contrast, last time I played him, on release, he was a melee monster with a shield, impossible to kill and dealing acceptable damage.
From my experience fighting sword masters the biggest advantages they have are spirit damage, abilities that increase their parry, absorb shields, and abilities that ignore block and parry. Black orcs baseline get none of this. We can spec for one absorb shield that blocks 520 damage. As with all current absorb shields this is pre mitigation.
For instance lets say your WH hits me for 500. Without an absorb shield my armor kicks in and reduces that to 125 (figure 75% reduction) with an absorb shield you hit me for 0 all 500 is absorbed and my shield has 20 left. In effect the shield only negated 125 damage. It is also now on cooldown. Swordmasters have 2, and I believe can spec for a third shield. While they also run into a similar problem, they can keep their shields up negating more damage.
Black orcs by default have 0 attacks that do anything other than armor damage. We can spec for WAAAAGH which is corporeal damage, debuffs corp resistance, and does not benefit from its own debuff. Yes that is correct, our single ability at 13 points in the tree does not benefit from the debuff it applies. Currently in the tracker, may at some point be fixed. Other sources of corp damage are loudmouth (whenever out bellows proc deals 200 corp damage to our target. After mitigation this usually ends up around 100. It can also be a major source of our damage. Yes thats right a 200 point attack 25% of the time pre mitigation ends up better than most of our other tactics.)
We have one undefendable attack, ya missed me. Requires us to block to use, does minimal damage, and lowers the targets melee damage by 20%.
Currently as the game stands now the only thing a sword and board black orc can consistently solo is Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Shadow Warriors. By solo I of course mean cause to run away because unless they charge us we will never be in melee range long enough to kill them. If we manage to root them which is one 60s cooldown we have to be in middle plan to snare them. Which means we have to hit them (50% chance of breaking root) then still be in range for the global cooldown and hope our snare lands. If it doesn't fights over. You will not get another shot before they either get back to their warcamp, or help arrives.
Black orcs are pure 100% block tanks. Against a target with capped offensive stat (str/int) the best shield currently in game gives you a base 16% chance to block. (To figure your base block chance at 40. Take your shields block value (412 for blocka of the doombull) divide by the offensive stat (1050 is the softcap) and multiply by 40.
Two handed weapons reduce chance to block by 10%, certain classes also get a debuff that reduces block chance by 10%. That gives me a 6% chance to negate all damage. There are two tactics that increase block. One by a flat 10%, one depending on our plan stage (it also increases parry) by 0 in no plan 5/5 in gud plan, and 10/10 in best plan. Considering how quickly we are cycle through our attacks this tactic is 100% useless outside of PVE.
If you want to play a guard bot, a full support tank then a sword and board blorc can be fine. Slotting big brawlin and running waagh you can run into groups and snare/disorient/ you will be fine. Your aoes can help wittle people not getting heals down, but understand this sword and board black orcs will rarely if ever kill anything by themselves.
If you want to kill anything with a blorc go two hander and play like an MDPS. If you have any questions about blorc specs, specific abilities, feel free to ask. I have spent over 1k gold respecing into every combination in all three trees that even remotely sounds viable. Black orcs are not "bad" they are just inferior to their order counterparts in a game that is constantly working to invalidate melee. By and large we suffer the same problems almost all melee dps does. We just live slightly longer and cant kill anything.
Here is my stats from realmwar if anyone is curious. I swap between the invader and sent gloves depending on if I want +66 str or +72 tough.
I currently play an SM on Badlands, so if anybody has any SM questions feel free to drop me a line.
To me this whole thread sums up one of the biggest failures of WAR.
Why have mirror classes if the first thing you're going to do is make their skills drastically different?
Look at all the big balance issues this game has had - they have all boiled down to Order Class A had a different skill than Destro Class A. Chosen with the Bane Shield. BWs with their AOE damage. Witch Elves and their kisses. IBs damage early on in the game (before blackguards). I could go on and on. Take all of those skills and give their counterpart the exact same thing, and its not an issue.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
You can balance things without having them being symmetrical. You just have to do it in a non-retarded fashion, and generally by simply tweaking one part of an otherwise identical ability will result in a retarded way that throws off balance.
I don't give a shit: Making the classes true mirrors would solve a third of this game's troubles in one fell swoop, and probably save enough energy on forum posts alone to take a nuclear plant out of comission.
Panda4You on
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
The next event is going to involve the Wild Hunt? Are there even Wood Elf models in the game?
Realistically, you don't actually need wood elf models to be in the game. The event will consist of people wandering too close to forests and dying to 100 arrows, and one tree.
I don't give a shit: Making the classes true mirrors would solve a third of this game's troubles in one fell swoop, and probably save enough energy on forum posts alone to take a nuclear plant out of comission.
I know they said they could balance all those abilities out. I know that given enough time, they could.
Their is something like 10% difference between mirror classes.
Supposedly.
But other people are not that patient. If they'd gone and just mirrored the classes EXACTLY they would have avoided the problem that people perceive a greater difference than their might actually be.
And prevent those ragequits.
Not mirroring them completely was truly their biggest mistake. A population wide case of "The grass is too greener over there, just -ing look at it. My grass is -ing purple! Does this look -ing green to you?" did terrible things.
Well WH do have the short range finishers. A mighty few feet! But if a WE gets the drop on a WH the chances that the elf will win is pretty high. Of course I could say the same if the WH gets the drop on the WE... unlike before when the WE would simply knock you on your fucking ass, stun you as you get up and then cut you to goddamn pieces before you can ask yourself "What the fucking hell!?". Anytime they goddamn well please.
I could say that they're pretty well balanced. Which just pisses the WE players off.
I don't give a shit: Making the classes true mirrors would solve a third of this game's troubles in one fell swoop, and probably save enough energy on forum posts alone to take a nuclear plant out of comission.
I know they said they could balance all those abilities out. I know that given enough time, they could.
Their is something like 10% difference between mirror classes.
Supposedly.
But other people are not that patient. If they'd gone and just mirrored the classes EXACTLY they would have avoided the problem that people perceive a greater difference than their might actually be.
And prevent those ragequits.
A big problem is that even with small differences a mirror class would occasionally get a retardedly good ability/tactic. Like the whole Engineer vs Magus thing and the Throwing Arm tactic and Unyielding Focus. I mean, who would have thought that a massive range boost and temporarily doubling one's damage (including all DoTs previously applied) could create such a huge difference?
I mean, the "mirrors but different" thing could be done well if the "differences" weren't ridiculously powerful at times.
That wouldn't stop all the complaining of course, as differences would still be perceived with the "grass is always greener" thing. Hell, when the Black Guard was on test there were Ironbreakers bitching endlessly about how the Black Guards would be super awesome unstoppable killing machines and that their unique abilities should either be nerfed or ported to Ironbreakers.
But as it is some of the differences are really ridiculous.
What happened to the previous claim to fame of not being hard to kill? When I was playing back in early December with my Chosen it seemed that Blorcs were always with more health. My toughness was crazy awesome though.
The big things that made a blorc hard to kill was we have tactics for +160 wounds, and 160 toughness. Also our da toughest bellow would heal us for 1020 and increase our health by the same amount. There was no wounds cap so blorcs would stack wounds and toughness, few people were geared high enough to almost completely negate block. In addition with the increase in damage, and the cap on resistances we cannot effectively stop magic.
Da toughest not heals for 520 max spec, which is nothing. Wounds cap is now fairly easy for blorcs to get to wheras in the past we would stack wounds as high as possibly. The addition of melee/magic +damage has created a secondary stat for offense classes to dump points into whereas there is no corresponding stat for defense. With casters able to debuff your resistances by about 50% of the cap it means you are looking at negating 20% of a variable crit high damage spell. Nothing you can really do to stop it.
Detharin on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
I'd much prefer asymmetrical balancing as it gives the classes some uniqueness even if it's harder to implement. Hell, I'd even take smaller differences with mostly the same components (ie- the racial spells in WoW before they got rid of those too) if it's easier. Starcraft has managed to stay nearly completely balanced between three completely different tech trees, though Mythic is not Blizzard.
I'd much prefer asymmetrical balancing as it gives the classes some uniqueness even if it's harder to implement. Hell, I'd even take smaller differences with mostly the same components (ie- the racial spells in WoW before they got rid of those too) if it's easier. Starcraft has managed to stay nearly completely balanced between three completely different tech trees, though Mythic is not Blizzard.
Sure, Starcraft is masterfully balanced, but WoW is not. So, even Blizzard can't managed to balance an MMO.
DisruptorX2 on
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
The addition of melee/magic +damage has created a secondary stat for offense classes to dump points into whereas there is no corresponding stat for defense. With casters able to debuff your resistances by about 50% of the cap it means you are looking at negating 20% of a variable crit high damage spell. Nothing you can really do to stop it.
This is one of my current "WTF were you thinking?" pet peeves with Mythic's recent designs. How exactly is including a ton of extra offensive stats (including offensive set bonuses) yet not including the corresponding defensive stats (and defensive set bonus armor sets) at all balanced? It completely screws over tanks and healers.
I'd much prefer asymmetrical balancing as it gives the classes some uniqueness even if it's harder to implement. Hell, I'd even take smaller differences with mostly the same components (ie- the racial spells in WoW before they got rid of those too) if it's easier. Starcraft has managed to stay nearly completely balanced between three completely different tech trees, though Mythic is not Blizzard.
Sure, Starcraft is masterfully balanced, but WoW is not. So, even Blizzard can't managed to balance an MMO.
Well Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with WoW of tacking things on ad hoc as opposed to starting from the beginning from a PvP balancing standpoint.
The next event is going to involve the Wild Hunt? Are there even Wood Elf models in the game?
Realistically, you don't actually need wood elf models to be in the game. The event will consist of people wandering too close to forests and dying to 100 arrows, and one tree.
:^:
Good point.
Morskittar on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I'd much prefer asymmetrical balancing as it gives the classes some uniqueness even if it's harder to implement. Hell, I'd even take smaller differences with mostly the same components (ie- the racial spells in WoW before they got rid of those too) if it's easier. Starcraft has managed to stay nearly completely balanced between three completely different tech trees, though Mythic is not Blizzard.
Go and ask in the starcraft thread how well Blizzard intentionally designed Starcraft to be balanced and they'll say "They didn't. It was a fluke. The strategies that makes them balanced weren't the ones blizzard were thinking of when they made it."
So you can't get disrupt items anymore?
Incidentally. If you do have way more resistances than you need to hit the cap. And they debuff you. What happens? Do you go down via a flat amount or does it eat up the diminishing returns stats first so if you have enough it could potentially leave you still at 50%.
I basically think Mythic are naive idealists. They obviously want to fix things they just want to make sure they do it slow and right the first time.
Which is madness because you are going to fuck up and the best way to do it is a succession of constant tweaks since the players are going to find all the stuff you didn't think of way faster than your internal testers. So it's just going to mean the same time frame anyway, except the slow way means there's huge breaks where people think you aren't doing anything.
It's a nice, you know, idea but it's really silly to think the playerbase will hang around for you to work out exactly whats wrong on the whiteboard before you'll even code anything.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Posts
I was liking it as two hander. I'll probably switch back. Running around Spamming AoEs that stole all stats at the same time was crazy fun.
I just feel that my Black Orc is pretty worthless outside of hold the line, in tank spec. He gets torn up by every other melee class when in melee. Ironically, he has no trouble with Bright Wizards, one on one. By contrast, last time I played him, on release, he was a melee monster with a shield, impossible to kill and dealing acceptable damage.
It's a good line for a full rvr tank and a good line for a full offensive tank. Almost everybody has some kind of magic damage, if you want to you can make healers life hell by specifically putting your dot on as many people as possible (its so much fun to watch a group healer melt themselves with this even though it does take a lot of effort) or just outright negate healing done while you are beating on mans.
Ravage does the best damage out of all main attacks.
And reducing everybodies wounds is the best thing.
And you get quake. Some people do nothing but go up and get quake and don't touch anything else, that's how good quake is. Eg at 40 I'm tentatively planning to do this.
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=13#0:0:13:8320:9:512:25:8365:503:8366:8358::::608:611:610:613
It depends how t4 works out though.
But, you can also like, go full discord then just get the baneshield upgrade from the tanking tree, stick in backlash as well, and be a walking porcupine. Bw who hit you get hit by everything, backlash, fluctuation and baneshield. Lots of people like this.
There are builds that again get quake, rending and the greatweapon crit and nothing else. They don't need anything else with that though. :P At rr 50 a two hander could get the anti heal aura and wounds blast the people he's whacking on.
I think that would be a really nasty damage build, personally. Can't even run because he can reach out and touch you.
It's basically a jack of all trades line rather than a pure antimagic line.
No shirt, no shoes, no skaven, no interest.
From my experience fighting sword masters the biggest advantages they have are spirit damage, abilities that increase their parry, absorb shields, and abilities that ignore block and parry. Black orcs baseline get none of this. We can spec for one absorb shield that blocks 520 damage. As with all current absorb shields this is pre mitigation.
For instance lets say your WH hits me for 500. Without an absorb shield my armor kicks in and reduces that to 125 (figure 75% reduction) with an absorb shield you hit me for 0 all 500 is absorbed and my shield has 20 left. In effect the shield only negated 125 damage. It is also now on cooldown. Swordmasters have 2, and I believe can spec for a third shield. While they also run into a similar problem, they can keep their shields up negating more damage.
Black orcs by default have 0 attacks that do anything other than armor damage. We can spec for WAAAAGH which is corporeal damage, debuffs corp resistance, and does not benefit from its own debuff. Yes that is correct, our single ability at 13 points in the tree does not benefit from the debuff it applies. Currently in the tracker, may at some point be fixed. Other sources of corp damage are loudmouth (whenever out bellows proc deals 200 corp damage to our target. After mitigation this usually ends up around 100. It can also be a major source of our damage. Yes thats right a 200 point attack 25% of the time pre mitigation ends up better than most of our other tactics.)
We have one undefendable attack, ya missed me. Requires us to block to use, does minimal damage, and lowers the targets melee damage by 20%.
Currently as the game stands now the only thing a sword and board black orc can consistently solo is Bright Wizards, Engineers, and Shadow Warriors. By solo I of course mean cause to run away because unless they charge us we will never be in melee range long enough to kill them. If we manage to root them which is one 60s cooldown we have to be in middle plan to snare them. Which means we have to hit them (50% chance of breaking root) then still be in range for the global cooldown and hope our snare lands. If it doesn't fights over. You will not get another shot before they either get back to their warcamp, or help arrives.
Black orcs are pure 100% block tanks. Against a target with capped offensive stat (str/int) the best shield currently in game gives you a base 16% chance to block. (To figure your base block chance at 40. Take your shields block value (412 for blocka of the doombull) divide by the offensive stat (1050 is the softcap) and multiply by 40.
Two handed weapons reduce chance to block by 10%, certain classes also get a debuff that reduces block chance by 10%. That gives me a 6% chance to negate all damage. There are two tactics that increase block. One by a flat 10%, one depending on our plan stage (it also increases parry) by 0 in no plan 5/5 in gud plan, and 10/10 in best plan. Considering how quickly we are cycle through our attacks this tactic is 100% useless outside of PVE.
If you want to play a guard bot, a full support tank then a sword and board blorc can be fine. Slotting big brawlin and running waagh you can run into groups and snare/disorient/ you will be fine. Your aoes can help wittle people not getting heals down, but understand this sword and board black orcs will rarely if ever kill anything by themselves.
If you want to kill anything with a blorc go two hander and play like an MDPS. If you have any questions about blorc specs, specific abilities, feel free to ask. I have spent over 1k gold respecing into every combination in all three trees that even remotely sounds viable. Black orcs are not "bad" they are just inferior to their order counterparts in a game that is constantly working to invalidate melee. By and large we suffer the same problems almost all melee dps does. We just live slightly longer and cant kill anything.
Here is my stats from realmwar if anyone is curious. I swap between the invader and sent gloves depending on if I want +66 str or +72 tough.
https://realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/CharacterInfo.war?id=205181&server=196
Two hander is fun, but you need healing baaad. Shouldn't be an issue in guild groups, though.
No news ever since Mark Jacob got Axed.
The problem with in guild groups is you do not really bring much to the table compared to chosen. Not sure blackguards they are the only thing i see less of than us. Chosen have auras, can spec for quake, and seem to offer a lot more utility. Black orcs? I can randomly steal stats that may or may not be of use to you, maybe give you 960 armor or 359 resistances if I run greenest, and the only CC of note is big brawling an AOE 40% snare and 25% disorient. Its not bad for slowing down people running away, but unless its multiple people are default snare works just as well, and lasts longer.
Blorcs are functional, and in a guild group can do decent. The problem is that they are inferior to order tanks, their DPS as defense tanks is practically nonexistant, and our previous claim to fame as being incredibly hard to kill no longer applies.
RIght now there is little reason aside from hold the line to not spec MDPS, strap a healer to your butt, and go nuts. If you dont have a healer you are just free RR.
You don't want too many of a single archetype in a group. But I would take any of the three destruction tanks about equally if they are specced properly for rvr tanking. They each has a slightly different role. A proper rvr tank hits the healers and magic dps and is a hold the line bot, a good rvr chosen is generally a tough nut to crack that can fulfill a bunch of roles but needs to change up his auras so they can be complicated to play well even with twister, the black orc seems like a bit of both previous roles with some things the other two lack.
I wouldn't say either of them is clearly better in a group, only solo. They each bring some nice things to the table. Aoe snare? That's actually amazing. I would give up quake for that. Put him on postern defense then.
Don't look down on snares.
What happened to the previous claim to fame of not being hard to kill? When I was playing back in early December with my Chosen it seemed that Blorcs were always with more health. My toughness was crazy awesome though.
I saw a really good black orc protecting his healer. He snared them then a bit later knocked them all back. His healer, no longer obstructed by the hitboxes of his enemy, ran the fuck away and they couldn't keep up to follow him.
Chosen? I can quake them for 2 seconds and knockback a dude. But mostly I'm sitting there furiously snaring and hoping my healer can run and isn't snared himself. I have no way to make a large group of people suddenly get some distance from him. No way at all.
Seriously aoe snare is amazing.
If they have lost their knockback thats a different story for defense but still makes them a great pair to run in with the chosen. They get up to a group, black orc starts up his cycle, chosen quakes, orc snares. That group is now fucked while your zerg rolls over them.
Plusif the stats stack with chosen buffs, although I'm not sure on that, then they're a very good buff.
And if a black orc can take over my resistance aura for defense I can stick on better auras I'd rather have, like damage, anti magic barb and anti heal.
So from the point of view of someone wanting to cooperate, I think da greenest black orcs are pretty awesome.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
New producers letter says 1.3b will be out this month.
I currently play an SM on Badlands, so if anybody has any SM questions feel free to drop me a line.
To me this whole thread sums up one of the biggest failures of WAR.
Why have mirror classes if the first thing you're going to do is make their skills drastically different?
Look at all the big balance issues this game has had - they have all boiled down to Order Class A had a different skill than Destro Class A. Chosen with the Bane Shield. BWs with their AOE damage. Witch Elves and their kisses. IBs damage early on in the game (before blackguards). I could go on and on. Take all of those skills and give their counterpart the exact same thing, and its not an issue.
Empire - Veela Server
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
WTB 1 Crown of Destruction Comix and 1 UO game account.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
In the past I've always found EU servers to be kinda.. empty and boring, what times are the us servers active?
Realistically, you don't actually need wood elf models to be in the game. The event will consist of people wandering too close to forests and dying to 100 arrows, and one tree.
"You don't have the WAR Hat."
"What's the WAR Hat?"
"It's a hat you can only get from working at Mythic since it started up. Only Mark Jacobs has it."
"ffffffffffffffffff"
I know they said they could balance all those abilities out. I know that given enough time, they could.
Their is something like 10% difference between mirror classes.
Supposedly.
But other people are not that patient. If they'd gone and just mirrored the classes EXACTLY they would have avoided the problem that people perceive a greater difference than their might actually be.
And prevent those ragequits.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I wouldn't say that.
I could say that they're pretty well balanced. Which just pisses the WE players off.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
A big problem is that even with small differences a mirror class would occasionally get a retardedly good ability/tactic. Like the whole Engineer vs Magus thing and the Throwing Arm tactic and Unyielding Focus. I mean, who would have thought that a massive range boost and temporarily doubling one's damage (including all DoTs previously applied) could create such a huge difference?
I mean, the "mirrors but different" thing could be done well if the "differences" weren't ridiculously powerful at times.
That wouldn't stop all the complaining of course, as differences would still be perceived with the "grass is always greener" thing. Hell, when the Black Guard was on test there were Ironbreakers bitching endlessly about how the Black Guards would be super awesome unstoppable killing machines and that their unique abilities should either be nerfed or ported to Ironbreakers.
But as it is some of the differences are really ridiculous.
The big things that made a blorc hard to kill was we have tactics for +160 wounds, and 160 toughness. Also our da toughest bellow would heal us for 1020 and increase our health by the same amount. There was no wounds cap so blorcs would stack wounds and toughness, few people were geared high enough to almost completely negate block. In addition with the increase in damage, and the cap on resistances we cannot effectively stop magic.
Da toughest not heals for 520 max spec, which is nothing. Wounds cap is now fairly easy for blorcs to get to wheras in the past we would stack wounds as high as possibly. The addition of melee/magic +damage has created a secondary stat for offense classes to dump points into whereas there is no corresponding stat for defense. With casters able to debuff your resistances by about 50% of the cap it means you are looking at negating 20% of a variable crit high damage spell. Nothing you can really do to stop it.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Sure, Starcraft is masterfully balanced, but WoW is not. So, even Blizzard can't managed to balance an MMO.
This is one of my current "WTF were you thinking?" pet peeves with Mythic's recent designs. How exactly is including a ton of extra offensive stats (including offensive set bonuses) yet not including the corresponding defensive stats (and defensive set bonus armor sets) at all balanced? It completely screws over tanks and healers.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Well Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with WoW of tacking things on ad hoc as opposed to starting from the beginning from a PvP balancing standpoint.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
:^:
Good point.
Go and ask in the starcraft thread how well Blizzard intentionally designed Starcraft to be balanced and they'll say "They didn't. It was a fluke. The strategies that makes them balanced weren't the ones blizzard were thinking of when they made it."
So you can't get disrupt items anymore?
Incidentally. If you do have way more resistances than you need to hit the cap. And they debuff you. What happens? Do you go down via a flat amount or does it eat up the diminishing returns stats first so if you have enough it could potentially leave you still at 50%.
I basically think Mythic are naive idealists. They obviously want to fix things they just want to make sure they do it slow and right the first time.
Which is madness because you are going to fuck up and the best way to do it is a succession of constant tweaks since the players are going to find all the stuff you didn't think of way faster than your internal testers. So it's just going to mean the same time frame anyway, except the slow way means there's huge breaks where people think you aren't doing anything.
It's a nice, you know, idea but it's really silly to think the playerbase will hang around for you to work out exactly whats wrong on the whiteboard before you'll even code anything.