I like the Tingle game, but it's more of a grindfest than DQ's post-game bosses. When you're actually making progress it's great. When you're grinding 800 rupees to pay Hardgay to thrust a bridge into existence, it's not as much fun.
No part of that sentence made the game sound unappealing.
Want to make it sound less appealing? The guys who build bridges are GAYER than Tingle.
At least Tingle has that secretary and likes women.
I like the Tingle game, but it's more of a grindfest than DQ's post-game bosses. When you're actually making progress it's great. When you're grinding 800 rupees to pay Hardgay to thrust a bridge into existence, it's not as much fun.
No part of that sentence made the game sound unappealing.
Want to make it sound less appealing? The guys who build bridges are GAYER than Tingle.
At least Tingle has that secretary and likes women.
Nope no change. I find the Japanese depiction of Homosexuals hilarious.
King Riptor on
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Magypsies from Mother 3...
-shudder-
...
...
...
I would buy the Tingle game, but I live in the States so its not even an option. Unless I import. Which I won't do 'cuz I'm cheap.
So far the only Zelda's I haven't played through are Twilight Princess, Phantom Houglass and Crossbow training, but a common problem with the others is the amount of money you're given. I'd like to see the rupees be actually used for something OTHER than buying items you can easily find in the open field.
Maybe something like, hiring guards to patrol the overworld against enemies, or something.
If I'm remembering right, Minish cap let you use your shells to buy figurines, which, while not great, if they implemented something similar with rupees, would at least give them some value.
*cough* "I'll translate your Chart... for 498 rupees!"
Best use of rupees ever.
Is that supposed to be facetious? Because I liked having an actual practical use for Rupees for once, rather than just spending them on minigames to get upgrades and heart pieces. It's not like the 3D zelda games are ever at a loss for Rupees. You're practically drowning in them.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
All of those things are the exact same game with a different coat of paint. The series has stagnated and could really use some fresh ideas.
A playable Zelda doesn't really sound like the solution though?
So far the only Zelda's I haven't played through are Twilight Princess, Phantom Houglass and Crossbow training, but a common problem with the others is the amount of money you're given. I'd like to see the rupees be actually used for something OTHER than buying items you can easily find in the open field.
Maybe something like, hiring guards to patrol the overworld against enemies, or something.
If I'm remembering right, Minish cap let you use your shells to buy figurines, which, while not great, if they implemented something similar with rupees, would at least give them some value.
*cough* "I'll translate your Chart... for 498 rupees!"
Best use of rupees ever.
Is that supposed to be facetious? Because I liked having an actual practical use for Rupees for once, rather than just spending them on minigames to get upgrades and heart pieces. It's not like the 3D zelda games are ever at a loss for Rupees. You're practically drowning in them.
Well, no, I wasn't being facetious. For the first time in 3D, you needed a certain amount of money to advance in the game. Money was necessary. And the amount wasn't trivial, either, which made it another reason to explore the environment, find the secret treasures, etc.
Yeah, I should have explained myself better. Sorry.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
All of those things are the exact same game with a different coat of paint. The series has stagnated and could really use some fresh ideas.
A playable Zelda doesn't really sound like the solution though?
How has it stagnated, as you say? Yes it is mostly the same. Go to dungeon, get weapon, beat the boss, get relic, repeat until Ganon dies. My point is that its still fun, is it not? Are you saying you wouldn't buy another Zelda if it followed the same formula? What would you do to change Zelda? Don't just say that it needs to change, suggest how to change and where changes are needed.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
Kinda sorta. TP was similar to OoT, but it had its key differences. What do you expect out of a Zelda game anyway?
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
Kinda sorta. TP was similar to OoT, but it had its key differences. What do you expect out of a Zelda game anyway?
Just a little more variation would be nice. I expected TP to be as different from WW and OoT as WW was from OoT. Just to restate; I still really liked TP, people that dislike it are horrible people and probably dislike puppies too.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
Kinda sorta. TP was similar to OoT, but it had its key differences. What do you expect out of a Zelda game anyway?
Just a little more variation would be nice. I expected TP to be as different from WW and OoT as WW was from OoT. Just to restate; I still really liked TP, people that dislike it are horrible people and probably dislike puppies too.
The wolf thing, although completely useless after the first three dungeons, was really all the variation I desired. Plus the more realistic art style was amazing.
I was kind of hoping for a turn back to less realistic, but this new one doesn't seem to go that way. It seems dark is the new cartoony.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
To be fair they pretty much promised a bigger newer OoT because fans bitched about Wind Waker not being like OoT. Originally the game was set 90 years after Ocarina though that changed midway through development.
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I concur; I don't think playing Zelda would be much of a change.
I think the most important thing to change is the template they have for Zelda games. Complete tutorial, enter first dungeon, beat miniboss, get item, beat final boss. Explore overworld, complete mundane tasks, enter second dungeon, etc. To me, the break between dungeon and overworld gives the game a very broken nature. I would like to see the dungeons more effectively integrated into the rest of the game.
Take for example, a FIRE Dungeon. Except, unlike in previous games, it's not at the far corner of the world, tucked away where nobody ever sees it. In fact, it's under Death Mountain, which happens to be in a particularly mountainous region of Hyrule Field. More importantly, the Gorons live on the FAR side, so that if Link wants to talk to them, he has to cross through the dungeon first, also negating the 1-entrance/exit rule Zelda seems to have. Perhaps Link can try to go up the mountain, only to find Gannon has blocked his path with a giant snowstorm ALA Fellowship of the Ring, meaning he must pass through the dungeon. It is in this first pass through (a brief sojourn and by no means the complete dungeon) that Link first sees the boss (and first fights him, in a decidedly one-sided battle) before he is rescued by several Gorons who heard the commotion while mining the area. Then they aid Link's escape and explain that they can make him an item to slay the monster, but he has to go back into the mines to get the materials, leading to Link entering the dungeon proper. Perhaps he could return a third time later for some other material for something else, meaning that he enters the same dungeon three times total. However, the main thing to remember here is that a) he is going to new areas in the dungeon each time, so there is very little redundant gameplay, and b) the enemies will have improved on subsequent trips. I call this the Metriod addition.
The other thing that I think would be really cool would be fights where you're not 100% alone. My favorite part about the final boss in WW is that Zelda was finally somewhat useful. TP's final dungeon would have been much improved if the resistance showed up more than once. Maybe fight a miniboss with the lady knight's aid, solve a puzzle with help from the sky people expert, etc. Rather than having the entire world hold their breath and hope one guy can solve all their problems, let's see some of those Hyrulian Knights give Link some back-up. At the very least, let the game's Shiek (or whoever the Sword Fairy is) help you find a boss's critical weakness rather than making it bright red or an eye ("When I knock its helmet off, shoot it in the head!") or something.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
Kinda sorta. TP was similar to OoT, but it had its key differences. What do you expect out of a Zelda game anyway?
Just a little more variation would be nice. I expected TP to be as different from WW and OoT as WW was from OoT. Just to restate; I still really liked TP, people that dislike it are horrible people and probably dislike puppies too.
The wolf thing, although completely useless after the first three dungeons, was really all the variation I desired. Plus the more realistic art style was amazing.
I was kind of hoping for a turn back to less realistic, but this new one doesn't seem to go that way. It seems dark is the new cartoony.
When they first revealed the new Cube zelda before it was WW didn't it have realistic graphics? They had that one shot with link and ganon.
So far the only Zelda's I haven't played through are Twilight Princess, Phantom Houglass and Crossbow training, but a common problem with the others is the amount of money you're given. I'd like to see the rupees be actually used for something OTHER than buying items you can easily find in the open field.
Maybe something like, hiring guards to patrol the overworld against enemies, or something.
If I'm remembering right, Minish cap let you use your shells to buy figurines, which, while not great, if they implemented something similar with rupees, would at least give them some value.
*cough* "I'll translate your Chart... for 498 rupees!"
Best use of rupees ever.
Is that supposed to be facetious? Because I liked having an actual practical use for Rupees for once, rather than just spending them on minigames to get upgrades and heart pieces. It's not like the 3D zelda games are ever at a loss for Rupees. You're practically drowning in them.
Well, no, I wasn't being facetious. For the first time in 3D, you needed a certain amount of money to advance in the game. Money was necessary. And the amount wasn't trivial, either, which made it another reason to explore the environment, find the secret treasures, etc.
Yeah, I should have explained myself better. Sorry.
Plus Wind Waker had the biggest purse, so there.
Yeah, but that was on top of having to go and get the maps and then get the treasure itself. It was all the worse because it could be a potentially really bad roadblock, if you didn't acquire the biggest wallet (thus probably wasting a good amount obtained from the map locations) or if you were unlucky enough to buy Beedle's super awesome expensive crap with all that sweet money.
That section of the game really was a misstep in an otherwise amazing experience.
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
All of those things are the exact same game with a different coat of paint. The series has stagnated and could really use some fresh ideas.
A playable Zelda doesn't really sound like the solution though?
How has it stagnated, as you say? Yes it is mostly the same. Go to dungeon, get weapon, beat the boss, get relic, repeat until Ganon dies. My point is that its still fun, is it not? Are you saying you wouldn't buy another Zelda if it followed the same formula? What would you do to change Zelda? Don't just say that it needs to change, suggest how to change and where changes are needed.
Well, first of all, I'm not a professional game designer, so I'm not entirely sure why it's my job? But I mean, it's pretty hard to deny that every game since OoT has just been a gussied-up version of OoT, whether or not you're satisfied about that. But I mean if you want me to say what I want them to change I'm not doin' anything!
First of all, they need to dump the puzzles that they've been recycling since the first freakin' game. There doesn't need to be one more single torch that needs to be lit to progress in any Zelda game ever again.
I'm all for keeping classic items like the bow or the bombs, but they need to come up with some new puzzles involving them. We have had enough wall-mounted eyeballs and cracked walls! PH had a few cool things in this vein, like the puzzle where you had to slingshot yourself across a chasm.
New items are also good, but not if they're going to be used for one or two specific puzzles in a dungeon and then a token boss battle, and then be totally pointless ever after. I'm lookin' at you, Spinner.
Personally I'd also like to see temples more incorporated into the world with more environmental-based puzzles. The Yeti mansion was a big step in the right direction. I thought City in the Sky would be too, but it turned out to just be Sky Temple With a Store in the Front So That We Can Call it a City.
Also I'd love to see them bring back the thing from MM where every NPC had his or her own story and was a character, as opposed to just being a signpost shaped like a person. They had it a little bit in TP towards the beginning, with the Ordonian kids, but it could've used a lot more. One of my favorite cutscenes was when you were watching all the kids trapped in Kakiriko and keeping their hopes up by talking about how you were coming to save them.
Link isn't really good with money. I was thinking while playing WW today that if link had a good manager he could come out of this whole thing with a couple hundred thousand rupees.
Oh god, I adored the Yeti dungeon. Adored it. Great puzzles, designs, the best damn NPCs in the game...
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0
GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
The fact that every single character in MM had some sort of backstory and such was awesome. I got the Bomber's Notebook today and it reminded me about that. I would love to see that implemented in another game. Hell I just want a sequel to Majora's Mask
I must be one of the few people who really liked Twilight Princess and thought it was better than Wind Waker in every single way. Definitely more epic and felt more grander. I don't blame some for enjoying WW as it had it's charm, there is no doubt of that and Gannon in it had one of his best versions yet but yeah Links design, the horrendous sailing and some other aspects just didn't do anything for me.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
All of those things are the exact same game with a different coat of paint. The series has stagnated and could really use some fresh ideas.
A playable Zelda doesn't really sound like the solution though?
How has it stagnated, as you say? Yes it is mostly the same. Go to dungeon, get weapon, beat the boss, get relic, repeat until Ganon dies. My point is that its still fun, is it not? Are you saying you wouldn't buy another Zelda if it followed the same formula? What would you do to change Zelda? Don't just say that it needs to change, suggest how to change and where changes are needed.
Well, first of all, I'm not a professional game designer, so I'm not entirely sure why it's my job? But I mean, it's pretty hard to deny that every game since OoT has just been a gussied-up version of OoT, whether or not you're satisfied about that. But I mean if you want me to say what I want them to change I'm not doin' anything!
First of all, they need to dump the puzzles that they've been recycling since the first freakin' game. There doesn't need to be one more single torch that needs to be lit to progress in any Zelda game ever again.
I'm all for keeping classic items like the bow or the bombs, but they need to come up with some new puzzles involving them. We have had enough wall-mounted eyeballs and cracked walls! PH had a few cool things in this vein, like the puzzle where you had to slingshot yourself across a chasm.
New items are also good, but not if they're going to be used for one or two specific puzzles in a dungeon and then a token boss battle, and then be totally pointless ever after. I'm lookin' at you, Spinner.
Personally I'd also like to see temples more incorporated into the world with more environmental-based puzzles. The Yeti mansion was a big step in the right direction. I thought City in the Sky would be too, but it turned out to just be Sky Temple With a Store in the Front So That We Can Call it a City.
Also I'd love to see them bring back the thing from MM where every NPC had his or her own story and was a character, as opposed to just being a signpost shaped like a person. They had it a little bit in TP towards the beginning, with the Ordonian kids, but it could've used a lot more. One of my favorite cutscenes was when you were watching all the kids trapped in Kakiriko and keeping their hopes up by talking about how you were coming to save them.
You said it much better than I ever could so why bother to try and do so.
So many complain about Twilight Princess, it seems to me after reading various message boards and complaints overall against the game, when it comes down to it most just view it as just being a higher version of OoT and really when you come down to it most Zelda games follow a similar state doing the same type of puzzles repeatedly. The same...well....pretty much everything. I know Nintendo has a habit of seldom changing up things in a big way but there needs to be that next great step in evolution for the franchise instead of more the same otherwise it doesn't matter if the game is cell shaded, realistic or otherwise, folks are just going to complain again as they did in Twilight Princess case.
Most of us have been playing Zelda since the first game on the NES, most of us likely will keep playing it off and on as well if not every single game because yeah, we're fans but it's not hard to see the problems or issues with the frachise after pretty much playing nearly the same design again for the better part of 20 years or so now despite some changes and the movement into 3D.
Isn't the sales on Zelda even kind of going down somewhat in recent years? Could be fans are just getting tired as I'm trying to say, we all want that next great Zelda game, but some changes would be nice.
I want the fact that the game is designed to not jump out and scream at me every minute or so. This is one of the reasons I dislike scripted sequences in my games - they don't always mesh solidly (HL 2 being an example of good scripted sequences) and remind me that it's all constructed, which is a problem for games that rely on immersion. So I don't want a character telling me which buttons to press, and I am most certainly going to be very aware of the fact that the Dungeon Item is going to Useful Against the Boss, and this will bother me.
After a while you start to sense the general shape of things and you are not surprised - if the general pattern of the goings-on become completely recognizable then the game world feels less as a place that exists on its own and becomes more like a setting constructed in order to be a backdrop to Your Old Favorite Events and Torch Puzzles. But I've always enjoyed my immersion into Hyrule as much as I've enjoyed battling Ganon's minions and servants, so I think the world should be able to stand on it's own legs and merely happen to provide a scenery and obstacle course to the protagonist. If the developer has to resort to blocking a street with a bench, something has gone wrong.
Same thing with Metroid Prime - it became more of a franchise and started getting really old. Corruption was completely transparent and it felt less natural and more of a scripted tour at the expense of immersion. The mechanics and the combat is not really varied and intense enough to make up for this - in the DMC series the focus on "WTFighting!!!" distracts you completely from the familiarity of the framework; the bread and butter of the game's content is deep and rewarding enough to keep anyone going.
What I am trying to say is that if you guide the player along as smoothly as in in Half-Life 2 then fine by me, and if you want to offer a wide-open world then you'd best be ready to immerse the player. WW lacked a coherent overworld but dragged me in with a consistent charm and aesthetic and MM, while sharing much with OoT, had a different kind of overworld and general atmosphere that more than compensated. Exploration was rewarded, talking to NPCs was rewarded. TP didn't really make the cut here. The light spirits and the entire new province didn't justify the sudden existence and the entirety of Hyrule never stopped being completely dependent on the rules and limitations of the patented Zelda structures.
Edit: Damn, Speed Racer. You and I, we be like this, man.
My favorite Zelda is OoT, simply because it was my first Zelda, really. I never had a Nintendo product until the N64, though I had played a few minutes of my cousins' gameboy Zelda (not sure which one). So OoT was my first, and will always be the best to me.
One of my favorite things to do, was to go into that temple in the woods, where the two wolfos pop out at you, and just jump/parry around them as long as I could without getting hit. "Z" targeting to me at the time, was amazing. Then when I'd get bored of that I'd go to lake hylia and see how far away I chould shoot crows from. Good times.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
I want the fact that the game is designed to not jump out and scream at me every minute or so. This is one of the reasons I dislike scripted sequences in my games - they don't always mesh solidly (HL 2 being an example of good scripted sequences) and remind me that it's all constructed, which is a problem for games that rely on immersion. So I don't want a character telling me which buttons to press, and I am most certainly going to be very aware of the fact that the Dungeon Item is going to Useful Against the Boss, and this will bother me.
After a while you start to sense the general shape of things and you are not surprised - if the general pattern of the goings-on become completely recognizable then the game world feels less as a place that exists on its own and becomes more like a setting constructed in order to be a backdrop to Your Old Favorite Events and Torch Puzzles. But I've always enjoyed my immersion into Hyrule as much as I've enjoyed battling Ganon's minions and servants, so I think the world should be able to stand on it's own legs and merely happen to provide a scenery and obstacle course to the protagonist. If the developer has to resort to blocking a street with a bench, something has gone wrong.
Same thing with Metroid Prime - it became more of a franchise and started getting really old. Corruption was completely transparent and it felt less natural and more of a scripted tour at the expense of immersion. The mechanics and the combat is not really varied and intense enough to make up for this - in the DMC series the focus on "WTFighting!!!" distracts you completely from the familiarity of the framework; the bread and butter of the game's content is deep and rewarding enough to keep anyone going.
What I am trying to say is that if you guide the player along as smoothly as in in Half-Life 2 then fine by me, and if you want to offer a wide-open world then you'd best be ready to immerse the player. WW lacked a coherent overworld but dragged me in with a consistent charm and aesthetic and MM, while sharing much with OoT, had a different kind of overworld and general atmosphere that more than compensated. Exploration was rewarded, talking to NPCs was rewarded. TP didn't really make the cut here. The light spirits and the entire new province didn't justify the sudden existence and the entirety of Hyrule never stopped being completely dependent on the rules and limitations of the patented Zelda structures.
Edit: Damn, Speed Racer. You and I, we be like this, man.
What we are doing right here is that we are agreeing with one another.
My favorite Zelda is OoT, simply because it was my first Zelda, really. I never had a Nintendo product until the N64, though I had played a few minutes of my cousins' gameboy Zelda (not sure which one). So OoT was my first, and will always be the best to me.
One of my favorite things to do, was to go into that temple in the woods, where the two wolfos pop out at you, and just jump/parry around them as long as I could without getting hit. "Z" targeting to me at the time, was amazing. Then when I'd get bored of that I'd go to lake hylia and see how far away I chould shoot crows from. Good times.
Although Majora's Mask was my first Zelda, something about Ocarina really stood out for me.
I didn't get around to playing it until it came out on the Wii shop channel, but it was amazing. If I had played it ten years ago it would have blown me away.
I think the best thing to do would be to have the dungeons be actual things, rather than merely temples with elaborate mechanisms. If it's a place to worship the element of fire, how is that being represented in that temple? Do we even want temples period? The Garudo village and the yeti's house were some of the best "dungeons" because they wern't really dungeons.
Also, having the "dungeons" be encorporated into the environments as somewhere oyu pass through would be nice. Also making travel be something truly epic. Journeying for 3 or 4 hours of varying landscape and gameplay to achieve some objective would be neat.
jeddy lee on
Backlog Challenge: 0%
0/8
PS2
FF X replay
PS3
God of War 1&2 HD
Rachet and Clank Future
MGS 4
Prince of Persia
The Snowpeak Mansion is a step in the right direction, but it is still hinges mostly on the limits and demands of a dungeon rather than those of an abode. It's the jokes about Umbrella employees needing crests to get to the cafeteria all over again.
When they first revealed the new Cube zelda before it was WW didn't it have realistic graphics? They had that one shot with link and ganon.
That was a tech demo only, to showcase what might be possible in a Legend of Zelda game for the GameCube.
And as someone who has been playing the Zelda games for a long time, the turn-around of opinion astonishes me.
"Yay, OoT is awesome, more please!"
"Woot, Majora's Mask is awesome!"
"Hey, look at that tech demo! Yeah!"
"WW is great but we want a darker Zelda! Darker OoT would be great, please Mr. Miyamoto sir."
"Twilight Princess is good. But it's just OoT again, with a darker theme. Boring."
And Miyamoto cries to himself at night.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
Because all Zelda fans are a homogenous hive mind, of course!
Seriously the people who praise TP because it's "darker" or more difficult and/or dis Wind Waker because it is not those things drive me fucking nuts. It is Zelda! Darkness of tone is not a priority and you are all silly babies, hypothetical constructs I made for the purpose of this argument!
people like 'darker'
people like 'toony' } the same damn argument, 'tis a matter of taste and I happen to be in the first category.
What bugs me is when people say that a preference for 'darker' is somehow due to an inability to appreciate the idiosyncratic beauty of Wind Waker, which reduces those being condemned to the mindset of a 13-year old who's just discovered Linkin Park. It cuts both ways. I liked WW's style, but it didn't strike me as anything to be particularly treasured, whereas a lot of TP was just absolutely beautiful to me and felt a lot more like how Zelda should, in my mind.
Also, in relation to prior topic: I think a lot of people really liked Twilight Princess, but there was this permeating undercurrent that things were a bit samey. But just because most people agreed, because really that's got a lot of truth in it, doesn't mean that one doesn't enjoy the game.
My only major gripe about Twilight Princess was that every area looked the same. There wasn't enough variation between colors that could really draw me in. It felt like i'd already been to said area before I even got there.
I guess I was expecting a little more variety or something.
Posts
Want to make it sound less appealing? The guys who build bridges are GAYER than Tingle.
At least Tingle has that secretary and likes women.
Nope no change. I find the Japanese depiction of Homosexuals hilarious.
-shudder-
...
...
...
I would buy the Tingle game, but I live in the States so its not even an option. Unless I import. Which I won't do 'cuz I'm cheap.
I just finished Snowhead and got the sword forged with gold dust.
Time to take it easy and work on those sidequests.
Re-shudder-
Somehow -wink wink- get a hold of this game and play it. You'll understand.
Not unless you go by the name metroixer.
Twilight Princess was the Zelda game I've been wanting for years ever since they showed that more mature Link fighting Gannon in that demo so many years ago. The problem as I touched on in the Castlevania thread is that the Zelda game play really hasn't changed, it's more than just long in the tooth at this point, it's absolute stagnate and they need to change it up. I'm sure they can easily make a Zelda game that stays true to the concept without it going by the numbers even if that ticked off some fans, but hey change can be good if done right. They just need to get a bit bold and mix things up a bit.
Hell I wouldn't mind if there was a playable Zelda for once, her name is in the title so give her a bow and sword and let her save Links ass for once. Or let you pick either and go do your own thing with each having their own tricks and tactics.
Nintendo will do whatever sells. Traditional Zelda games sell. They sell like bottled water in the desert. Plus, what's wrong with the tried-and-true Zelda games? I could play restylized Zelda games with the same essential plot until the end of time and still be content with life. If you want change, what exactly do you want? Zelda isn't playable because, contrary to what Metroid may lead you to believe, Japan is sexist as hell (ie Splash Woman). Zelda will probably never be much more than the damsel in distress. Even Tetra, the most amazing Zelda to date, was kidnapped by Ganon. Besides, what hasn't Zelda done yet? Time travel (twice), alternate dimension, evil selves, reincarnation, you name it.
All of those things are the exact same game with a different coat of paint. The series has stagnated and could really use some fresh ideas.
A playable Zelda doesn't really sound like the solution though?
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Well, no, I wasn't being facetious. For the first time in 3D, you needed a certain amount of money to advance in the game. Money was necessary. And the amount wasn't trivial, either, which made it another reason to explore the environment, find the secret treasures, etc.
Yeah, I should have explained myself better. Sorry.
Plus Wind Waker had the biggest purse, so there.
I certainly like TP better than most Zeldas, including TWW, but I must say that TWW gets the prize when it comes to art style. But that doesn't mean I don't think TP looks very good.
How has it stagnated, as you say? Yes it is mostly the same. Go to dungeon, get weapon, beat the boss, get relic, repeat until Ganon dies. My point is that its still fun, is it not? Are you saying you wouldn't buy another Zelda if it followed the same formula? What would you do to change Zelda? Don't just say that it needs to change, suggest how to change and where changes are needed.
TP was great but it was really just a bigger newer OOT. After WW I was wondering how they were going to wow us now, what the next big thing was then it was like "oh, OOT again, well that's good I guess"
Kinda sorta. TP was similar to OoT, but it had its key differences. What do you expect out of a Zelda game anyway?
Just a little more variation would be nice. I expected TP to be as different from WW and OoT as WW was from OoT. Just to restate; I still really liked TP, people that dislike it are horrible people and probably dislike puppies too.
The wolf thing, although completely useless after the first three dungeons, was really all the variation I desired. Plus the more realistic art style was amazing.
I was kind of hoping for a turn back to less realistic, but this new one doesn't seem to go that way. It seems dark is the new cartoony.
To be fair they pretty much promised a bigger newer OoT because fans bitched about Wind Waker not being like OoT. Originally the game was set 90 years after Ocarina though that changed midway through development.
I think the most important thing to change is the template they have for Zelda games. Complete tutorial, enter first dungeon, beat miniboss, get item, beat final boss. Explore overworld, complete mundane tasks, enter second dungeon, etc. To me, the break between dungeon and overworld gives the game a very broken nature. I would like to see the dungeons more effectively integrated into the rest of the game.
Take for example, a FIRE Dungeon. Except, unlike in previous games, it's not at the far corner of the world, tucked away where nobody ever sees it. In fact, it's under Death Mountain, which happens to be in a particularly mountainous region of Hyrule Field. More importantly, the Gorons live on the FAR side, so that if Link wants to talk to them, he has to cross through the dungeon first, also negating the 1-entrance/exit rule Zelda seems to have. Perhaps Link can try to go up the mountain, only to find Gannon has blocked his path with a giant snowstorm ALA Fellowship of the Ring, meaning he must pass through the dungeon. It is in this first pass through (a brief sojourn and by no means the complete dungeon) that Link first sees the boss (and first fights him, in a decidedly one-sided battle) before he is rescued by several Gorons who heard the commotion while mining the area. Then they aid Link's escape and explain that they can make him an item to slay the monster, but he has to go back into the mines to get the materials, leading to Link entering the dungeon proper. Perhaps he could return a third time later for some other material for something else, meaning that he enters the same dungeon three times total. However, the main thing to remember here is that a) he is going to new areas in the dungeon each time, so there is very little redundant gameplay, and b) the enemies will have improved on subsequent trips. I call this the Metriod addition.
The other thing that I think would be really cool would be fights where you're not 100% alone. My favorite part about the final boss in WW is that Zelda was finally somewhat useful. TP's final dungeon would have been much improved if the resistance showed up more than once. Maybe fight a miniboss with the lady knight's aid, solve a puzzle with help from the sky people expert, etc. Rather than having the entire world hold their breath and hope one guy can solve all their problems, let's see some of those Hyrulian Knights give Link some back-up. At the very least, let the game's Shiek (or whoever the Sword Fairy is) help you find a boss's critical weakness rather than making it bright red or an eye ("When I knock its helmet off, shoot it in the head!") or something.
When they first revealed the new Cube zelda before it was WW didn't it have realistic graphics? They had that one shot with link and ganon.
That section of the game really was a misstep in an otherwise amazing experience.
Well, first of all, I'm not a professional game designer, so I'm not entirely sure why it's my job? But I mean, it's pretty hard to deny that every game since OoT has just been a gussied-up version of OoT, whether or not you're satisfied about that. But I mean if you want me to say what I want them to change I'm not doin' anything!
First of all, they need to dump the puzzles that they've been recycling since the first freakin' game. There doesn't need to be one more single torch that needs to be lit to progress in any Zelda game ever again.
I'm all for keeping classic items like the bow or the bombs, but they need to come up with some new puzzles involving them. We have had enough wall-mounted eyeballs and cracked walls! PH had a few cool things in this vein, like the puzzle where you had to slingshot yourself across a chasm.
New items are also good, but not if they're going to be used for one or two specific puzzles in a dungeon and then a token boss battle, and then be totally pointless ever after. I'm lookin' at you, Spinner.
Personally I'd also like to see temples more incorporated into the world with more environmental-based puzzles. The Yeti mansion was a big step in the right direction. I thought City in the Sky would be too, but it turned out to just be Sky Temple With a Store in the Front So That We Can Call it a City.
Also I'd love to see them bring back the thing from MM where every NPC had his or her own story and was a character, as opposed to just being a signpost shaped like a person. They had it a little bit in TP towards the beginning, with the Ordonian kids, but it could've used a lot more. One of my favorite cutscenes was when you were watching all the kids trapped in Kakiriko and keeping their hopes up by talking about how you were coming to save them.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I thought that the mushrooms I give to the witch would do the trick, but after waiting for three days and still nothing, i'm out of ideas.
What the heck do those mushrooms do anyways?
The deku in the canyon has them, he's 1 screen east of the river you have to cross to get to the top.
You said it much better than I ever could so why bother to try and do so.
So many complain about Twilight Princess, it seems to me after reading various message boards and complaints overall against the game, when it comes down to it most just view it as just being a higher version of OoT and really when you come down to it most Zelda games follow a similar state doing the same type of puzzles repeatedly. The same...well....pretty much everything. I know Nintendo has a habit of seldom changing up things in a big way but there needs to be that next great step in evolution for the franchise instead of more the same otherwise it doesn't matter if the game is cell shaded, realistic or otherwise, folks are just going to complain again as they did in Twilight Princess case.
Most of us have been playing Zelda since the first game on the NES, most of us likely will keep playing it off and on as well if not every single game because yeah, we're fans but it's not hard to see the problems or issues with the frachise after pretty much playing nearly the same design again for the better part of 20 years or so now despite some changes and the movement into 3D.
Isn't the sales on Zelda even kind of going down somewhat in recent years? Could be fans are just getting tired as I'm trying to say, we all want that next great Zelda game, but some changes would be nice.
After a while you start to sense the general shape of things and you are not surprised - if the general pattern of the goings-on become completely recognizable then the game world feels less as a place that exists on its own and becomes more like a setting constructed in order to be a backdrop to Your Old Favorite Events and Torch Puzzles. But I've always enjoyed my immersion into Hyrule as much as I've enjoyed battling Ganon's minions and servants, so I think the world should be able to stand on it's own legs and merely happen to provide a scenery and obstacle course to the protagonist. If the developer has to resort to blocking a street with a bench, something has gone wrong.
Same thing with Metroid Prime - it became more of a franchise and started getting really old. Corruption was completely transparent and it felt less natural and more of a scripted tour at the expense of immersion. The mechanics and the combat is not really varied and intense enough to make up for this - in the DMC series the focus on "WTFighting!!!" distracts you completely from the familiarity of the framework; the bread and butter of the game's content is deep and rewarding enough to keep anyone going.
What I am trying to say is that if you guide the player along as smoothly as in in Half-Life 2 then fine by me, and if you want to offer a wide-open world then you'd best be ready to immerse the player. WW lacked a coherent overworld but dragged me in with a consistent charm and aesthetic and MM, while sharing much with OoT, had a different kind of overworld and general atmosphere that more than compensated. Exploration was rewarded, talking to NPCs was rewarded. TP didn't really make the cut here. The light spirits and the entire new province didn't justify the sudden existence and the entirety of Hyrule never stopped being completely dependent on the rules and limitations of the patented Zelda structures.
Edit: Damn, Speed Racer. You and I, we be like this, man.
One of my favorite things to do, was to go into that temple in the woods, where the two wolfos pop out at you, and just jump/parry around them as long as I could without getting hit. "Z" targeting to me at the time, was amazing. Then when I'd get bored of that I'd go to lake hylia and see how far away I chould shoot crows from. Good times.
What we are doing right here is that we are agreeing with one another.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Although Majora's Mask was my first Zelda, something about Ocarina really stood out for me.
I didn't get around to playing it until it came out on the Wii shop channel, but it was amazing. If I had played it ten years ago it would have blown me away.
Also, having the "dungeons" be encorporated into the environments as somewhere oyu pass through would be nice. Also making travel be something truly epic. Journeying for 3 or 4 hours of varying landscape and gameplay to achieve some objective would be neat.
PS2
FF X replay
PS3
God of War 1&2 HD
Rachet and Clank Future
MGS 4
Prince of Persia
360
Bayonetta
Fable 3
DS
FF: 4 heroes of light
That was a tech demo only, to showcase what might be possible in a Legend of Zelda game for the GameCube.
And as someone who has been playing the Zelda games for a long time, the turn-around of opinion astonishes me.
"Yay, OoT is awesome, more please!"
"Woot, Majora's Mask is awesome!"
"Hey, look at that tech demo! Yeah!"
"WW is great but we want a darker Zelda! Darker OoT would be great, please Mr. Miyamoto sir."
"Twilight Princess is good. But it's just OoT again, with a darker theme. Boring."
And Miyamoto cries to himself at night.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Seriously the people who praise TP because it's "darker" or more difficult and/or dis Wind Waker because it is not those things drive me fucking nuts. It is Zelda! Darkness of tone is not a priority and you are all silly babies, hypothetical constructs I made for the purpose of this argument!
people like 'darker'
people like 'toony' } the same damn argument, 'tis a matter of taste and I happen to be in the first category.
What bugs me is when people say that a preference for 'darker' is somehow due to an inability to appreciate the idiosyncratic beauty of Wind Waker, which reduces those being condemned to the mindset of a 13-year old who's just discovered Linkin Park. It cuts both ways. I liked WW's style, but it didn't strike me as anything to be particularly treasured, whereas a lot of TP was just absolutely beautiful to me and felt a lot more like how Zelda should, in my mind.
Also, in relation to prior topic: I think a lot of people really liked Twilight Princess, but there was this permeating undercurrent that things were a bit samey. But just because most people agreed, because really that's got a lot of truth in it, doesn't mean that one doesn't enjoy the game.
I guess I was expecting a little more variety or something.