Okay so here's some of my 2000 Point Army List, as well as the backstory behind the army. And yes, the names are all from the Armybook and they do make sense. I am that sad.
LIZARDMEN ARMY
2000 POINTS
LORDS
Saurus Oldblood - Carnosaur, Blade of Realities, Carnosaur Pendant - 455 Points
HEROES
Skink Priest - Level 2 Wizard, Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods, Dispell Scroll, Diadem of Power - 435 Points
CORE
Saurus Warriors(16) - Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician - 210 Points
Saurus Warriors(16) - Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician - 210 Points
Skink Skirmishers(10) - Javelins and Shields - 80
Skink Skirmishers(10) - Javelins and Shiels -80
SPECIAL
Terradon Riders(3) - 90
RARE
Razordon Hunting Pack(2) - 150
Total 1710
I'm conflicted on what to spend the last 290 points on. I could buy another Stegadon, which would be useful. I could also get a block of Temple Guard or Cold One Cavalry, or I could buy another Skink Priest for the hell of it. What do you guys think?
Boq-kal Qu-mundi
(Weapon of the Old Ones, Defence of the World)
The heat within the Chamber of Heavens was blistering, amplified by the countless layers of stone between it's occupants and the humid Lustrian air outside. Dust coats the largest of the room's inhabitants, unmoving, unblinking, the Mage-Priests have sat maintaining their trance in order to commune with the Old Ones, some for years, others for centuries. Their Saurus bodyguards stand at the base of the palanquins that bear the weight of the Slann's swollen forms, as unmoving as their masters. The only signs of any active life within the room are the chirping debates and skittering to and fro of the dozens of Skink attendants and priests. Huinixehe is one of these priests, he has travelled from the Temple-City of Tlaxtlan in order to inform the great Mage-Priests of another eclipse of the Chaos Moon. Such an ill sign could be a warning from the Old Ones of another Chaos encroachment. However, he must wait, as always. Other Skink petitioners have requested an audience from the great ones. Xapati the Stonemaster reports that his Kroxigor have uncovered a tablet detailing the proper way to skin a rat spawn in honor of the gods. Chuqtehe details the deaths of seven novice Priests in an unfortunate explosion, Lord Itzaxla's left eye twitches, clearly marking the accident as an act of the Old One's will. After several cycles, it is almost Huinixehe's time for approach. Just before he can speak, however, the doors to the chamber open suddenly. Korxa marches into the room, Skinks parting before his path. The Oldblood's status grants him immediate counsel with the Mage-Priests. In short, barking words he tells of multiple incursions upon the northern reaches of the jungle. A band of Norse raiders, Drucchi slavers, a joint Dwarf-Human expedition. Huinixehe, recognizing the portence of the raids, chirps and chitters his own message. After the last word is spoken, Lord Mazamundi's eyes open. The room falls silent. In slow, deliberate tones akin to two stones grinding together he says his first words in decades. "Go forth and crush our enemies. Call upon all of our forces. You two shall travel beyond our holy lands and bring order to the world once again."
I just wanted an excuse to have all kinds of units and to fight shit that doesn't go to Lustria
Razordons are the bee's pointy knees, Salvation. The only reason they aren't in every list I take, in large numbers, is that I feel bad doing that to people. They're probably the best flank protectors in the game. Nobody wants to charge those guys. Greater Daemons look somewhere else for targets that won't shred them.
Blankspace: Temple guard are pretty good, except when they get charged by big killy units. Then, they more or less melt away due to their low initiative. I'd honestly buy another razordon pack (see my comments above) and then flesh out my warriors. I assume you're running them six-wide, so eighteen models is a good size for those units. If you still have points after that, you could always get some more skinks. Buy a couple of minimum-sized ranked units that you can use for redirecting charges and slingshotting frenzied units around the table. That frees your skirmishing skinks up for harrassment and march-blocking.
Actually went through and read the Lizardman book for the first time today.
Holy shit why does no one take Razordons. It's a fucking M6 Helblaster that doesn't jam.
Yeah, they're pretty sweet. The only issue is handlers tend to die real easily to shooting (even on the 5-6), and they don't have a great leadership. I know if I played Lizardmen I'd be hard pressed not to use as many as I could.
You might think about getting a saurus BSB on a cold one. For 170 points you've got another scar veteran with a 0+ armor save (enchanted shield). That leaves you 120 points which you could use for another unit of terradons and to flesh out your saurus unit.
Also, your priest is pointed wrong, he costs 440 points.
With the oldblood on carny you might think of using the E. Shield instead of the pendant, as the oldblood gains frenzy as soon as the carnosaur does a wound. All you're doing is ensuring you're going to frenzy in the first round of combat, as sometimes the carnosaur will fluff his attacks. The oldblood on carnosaur with BoR always scares me a bit at how low his defense is for being on a monstrous mount. You're running him at 2+ armor with no ward.
This is my list that I'm going to try out the Blade of Realities in:
Oldblood - Blade of Realities, Carnosaur Pendnat, Cold One
Scar Vet - BSB, Burning Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One
Actually went through and read the Lizardman book for the first time today.
Holy shit why does no one take Razordons. It's a fucking M6 Helblaster that doesn't jam.
Yeah, they're pretty sweet. The only issue is handlers tend to die real easily to shooting (even on the 5-6), and they don't have a great leadership. I know if I played Lizardmen I'd be hard pressed not to use as many as I could.
I'm in the camp of Razordons sucking. They're too unreliable, with rolling an art dice for number of hits and then having to hit on a 4+. Also, with the stand and shoot reaction they're technically worse depending on how you play it. Rules as written if you roll a misfire with either of the two artillery dice the other shots from that razordon are discard because it states on a misfire the razordon fires no shots that round.
Also, LD 6 is the standard of the army, and with cold blooded it's essentially LD 8.
The cold ones take up the space of 2 saurus. And the only way I could beef that up is if I dropped both the champions and that could buy me an extra saurus in each unit. Everything else in the list is pretty much min sized so there's not a lot of points to squeeze out of it.
Blankspace is running 16 in all his lists too.. I guess one group will have a Carno in it and hit 20, but the other one has nothing joining it. I thought 16 was a magic number for some other reason.
Most people, I thought, were slightly apprehensive about sticking cold ones in units of infantry because of the stupidity, so I wasn't so sure that was the reason.
I forgot to mention the saurus have spears. I don't really mind stupidity in a block so much, because if I stumble forward 3.5" it's not such a big deal. The unit is likely going to be getting charged either way. I also think the stupidity is a fair trade off for the +2 armor save and the immunity to fear for the entire unit.
The only place I'm scared to put my cold ones is in a temple guard block with the slann, because on a failure I just lost a magic phase.
Shades in buildings is possibly the worst thing I've ever encountered. There's just no good way to deal with them since they first shoot you to bits, then stand and shoot you to bits and then chop you up with their excellent combat skills.
Well at least for my list which had no offensive magic and no template artillery.
Aaaaand that's why we don't play with buildings. Shades are bastards, too. I sort of vaguely knew they were supposed to be "nice" before I played Draeven's DE for the first time. Now they are the sole initial target of my magic phase until they are dead or at least neutered.
Erandus on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
All of you!
This is very important: Stop making me want to play Lizardmen (more) dammit!
Or at least find me a set of suitable replacement models that I can use without retching.*
*Sorry, I just can't stand the lizardmen models as they are for some reason, don't really know why.
Aaaaand that's why we don't play with buildings. Shades are bastards, too. I sort of vaguely knew they were supposed to be "nice" before I played Draeven's DE for the first time. Now they are the sole initial target of my magic phase until they are dead or at least neutered.
I've never played with buildings in 7th, mainly because my (now largely defunct) group did *once* and refused to ever again.
I love the concept but gather that they really are out of control.
Morskittar on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Because you have no taste. The new models are fucking sexytime.
I am prepared to concede that it may be GW's stupid default neon blue theme that's freaking me out, since I hardly ever see the lizards "in the flesh" as it were.
I've never played with buildings in 7th, mainly because my (now largely defunct) group did *once* and refused to ever again.
I love the concept but gather that they really are out of control.
It seems to me that fantasy is really only balanced for the pitched battle scenario in modestly open terrain. As soon as you start introducing a lot of difficult terrain and fortified structures, things go to shit for one army or another in a big hurry.
I am prepared to concede that it may be GW's stupid default neon blue theme that's freaking me out, since I hardly ever see the lizards "in the flesh" as it were.
One of my friends did his saurus in green and his salamanders in red, and they looked really really nice. Nice to the point where blue saurus just look totally wrong to me.
Aaaaand that's why we don't play with buildings. Shades are bastards, too. I sort of vaguely knew they were supposed to be "nice" before I played Draeven's DE for the first time. Now they are the sole initial target of my magic phase until they are dead or at least neutered.
I've never played with buildings in 7th, mainly because my (now largely defunct) group did *once* and refused to ever again.
I love the concept but gather that they really are out of control.
Use magic missiles against shades in buildings. Then they're just t3 elves.
I usually take a Tzeentch sorcerer, and nearly always default one of my spells to Flickering Fire, because it's the hot sauce, so it's not usually an issue for me. Fuck Infernal Gate.
I usually take a Tzeentch sorcerer, and nearly always default one of my spells to Flickering Fire, because it's the hot sauce, so it's not usually an issue for me. Fuck Infernal Gate.
You shut your whore mouth, infernal gate ate an ENTIRE UNIT of my swordmasters.
it was...
Rend on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
The best part is that the Gate even works against Stanks. It does have a strength value after all....
I don't care if it's a 12+ spell, nothing makes me cringe like someone rolling dice on Bolt of Change from DoC. Having a unit of CoK get popped with 8 S10 hits was pretty
A duck! on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I don't care if it's a 12+ spell, nothing makes me cringe like someone rolling dice on Bolt of Change from DoC. Having a unit of CoK get popped with 8 S10 hits was pretty
you know what in the dark elf army isn't t3? hydras. also, always-strike-firsting halberds with WS5 and rerolls every round. also, assassins' daggers that go snicker-snack, snicker-snack.
You get around t3 by MURDERING FASTER.
Mouschi on
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
you know what in the dark elf army isn't t3? hydras. also, always-strike-firsting halberds with WS5 and rerolls every round. also, assassins' daggers that go snicker-snack, snicker-snack.
You get around t3 by MURDERING FASTER.
That's really it. As long as you don't hit a tarpit a good portion of the game ends up being running into a block, murdering it and popping out the other side. Your biggest enemy is shooting, but a judicious use of Chillwind, Word of Pain (such an underrated spell) and Shades will clean that up.
A duck! on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
BG, by a mile. I have tried to use Executioners in every way possible, and their only real use is a group of 6 or so that cleans up after BG. BG need to be babysat by some high S characters every now and then, but there is literally no list I would consider that doesn't have at least a block of 12 with: standard bearer, Hag Graef, Tower Master and Crimson Death. Even my 1000 point army has that.
BG, by a mile. I have tried to use Executioners in every way possible, and their only real use is a group of 6 or so that cleans up after BG. BG need to be babysat by some high S characters every now and then, but there is literally no list I would consider that doesn't have at least a block of 12 with: standard bearer, Hag Graef, Tower Master and Crimson Death. Even my 1000 point army has that.
Seriously. Black guard are insane, and you can run them in small units because they generate their CR through kills instead of being in huge blocks. And with Hag Graef, they're just... you can't even charge and maybe get the murder ball rolling against them. You run a big killy unit into them, and the BG chew up a lot of them, maybe take one casualty, and even if they lose combat they just roll a 10 or less and keep chugging on.
And they're so cheap too. BG by a mile, like duck said.
Mouschi on
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Posts
2000 POINTS
LORDS
Saurus Oldblood - Carnosaur, Blade of Realities, Carnosaur Pendant - 455 Points
HEROES
Skink Priest - Level 2 Wizard, Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods, Dispell Scroll, Diadem of Power - 435 Points
CORE
Saurus Warriors(16) - Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician - 210 Points
Saurus Warriors(16) - Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician - 210 Points
Skink Skirmishers(10) - Javelins and Shields - 80
Skink Skirmishers(10) - Javelins and Shiels -80
SPECIAL
Terradon Riders(3) - 90
RARE
Razordon Hunting Pack(2) - 150
Total 1710
(Weapon of the Old Ones, Defence of the World)
The heat within the Chamber of Heavens was blistering, amplified by the countless layers of stone between it's occupants and the humid Lustrian air outside. Dust coats the largest of the room's inhabitants, unmoving, unblinking, the Mage-Priests have sat maintaining their trance in order to commune with the Old Ones, some for years, others for centuries. Their Saurus bodyguards stand at the base of the palanquins that bear the weight of the Slann's swollen forms, as unmoving as their masters. The only signs of any active life within the room are the chirping debates and skittering to and fro of the dozens of Skink attendants and priests. Huinixehe is one of these priests, he has travelled from the Temple-City of Tlaxtlan in order to inform the great Mage-Priests of another eclipse of the Chaos Moon. Such an ill sign could be a warning from the Old Ones of another Chaos encroachment. However, he must wait, as always. Other Skink petitioners have requested an audience from the great ones. Xapati the Stonemaster reports that his Kroxigor have uncovered a tablet detailing the proper way to skin a rat spawn in honor of the gods. Chuqtehe details the deaths of seven novice Priests in an unfortunate explosion, Lord Itzaxla's left eye twitches, clearly marking the accident as an act of the Old One's will. After several cycles, it is almost Huinixehe's time for approach. Just before he can speak, however, the doors to the chamber open suddenly. Korxa marches into the room, Skinks parting before his path. The Oldblood's status grants him immediate counsel with the Mage-Priests. In short, barking words he tells of multiple incursions upon the northern reaches of the jungle. A band of Norse raiders, Drucchi slavers, a joint Dwarf-Human expedition. Huinixehe, recognizing the portence of the raids, chirps and chitters his own message. After the last word is spoken, Lord Mazamundi's eyes open. The room falls silent. In slow, deliberate tones akin to two stones grinding together he says his first words in decades. "Go forth and crush our enemies. Call upon all of our forces. You two shall travel beyond our holy lands and bring order to the world once again."
I just wanted an excuse to have all kinds of units and to fight shit that doesn't go to Lustria
Blankspace: Temple guard are pretty good, except when they get charged by big killy units. Then, they more or less melt away due to their low initiative. I'd honestly buy another razordon pack (see my comments above) and then flesh out my warriors. I assume you're running them six-wide, so eighteen models is a good size for those units. If you still have points after that, you could always get some more skinks. Buy a couple of minimum-sized ranked units that you can use for redirecting charges and slingshotting frenzied units around the table. That frees your skirmishing skinks up for harrassment and march-blocking.
Yeah, they're pretty sweet. The only issue is handlers tend to die real easily to shooting (even on the 5-6), and they don't have a great leadership. I know if I played Lizardmen I'd be hard pressed not to use as many as I could.
Also, your priest is pointed wrong, he costs 440 points.
With the oldblood on carny you might think of using the E. Shield instead of the pendant, as the oldblood gains frenzy as soon as the carnosaur does a wound. All you're doing is ensuring you're going to frenzy in the first round of combat, as sometimes the carnosaur will fluff his attacks. The oldblood on carnosaur with BoR always scares me a bit at how low his defense is for being on a monstrous mount. You're running him at 2+ armor with no ward.
This is my list that I'm going to try out the Blade of Realities in:
Oldblood - Blade of Realities, Carnosaur Pendnat, Cold One
Scar Vet - BSB, Burning Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One
Priest - EotG, Diadem, Dispel Scroll, Lvl 2
Priest - EotG, Cube of Darkness, Lvl 2
16 Saurus Warriors - Spears, FC
16 Saurus Warriors - Spears, FC
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
3 Terradon Riders
3 Terradon Riders
1 Salamander + Extra Handler
1 Salamander + Extra Handler
Wow.. after typing that out that list has some disgusting symmetry.
I'm in the camp of Razordons sucking. They're too unreliable, with rolling an art dice for number of hits and then having to hit on a 4+. Also, with the stand and shoot reaction they're technically worse depending on how you play it. Rules as written if you roll a misfire with either of the two artillery dice the other shots from that razordon are discard because it states on a misfire the razordon fires no shots that round.
Also, LD 6 is the standard of the army, and with cold blooded it's essentially LD 8.
Most people, I thought, were slightly apprehensive about sticking cold ones in units of infantry because of the stupidity, so I wasn't so sure that was the reason.
The only place I'm scared to put my cold ones is in a temple guard block with the slann, because on a failure I just lost a magic phase.
Not having Khorne's approval is for pussies. Khorne does not approve.
Well at least for my list which had no offensive magic and no template artillery.
This is very important: Stop making me want to play Lizardmen (more) dammit!
Or at least find me a set of suitable replacement models that I can use without retching.*
*Sorry, I just can't stand the lizardmen models as they are for some reason, don't really know why.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Because you have no taste. The new models are fucking sexytime.
I've never played with buildings in 7th, mainly because my (now largely defunct) group did *once* and refused to ever again.
I love the concept but gather that they really are out of control.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
It seems to me that fantasy is really only balanced for the pitched battle scenario in modestly open terrain. As soon as you start introducing a lot of difficult terrain and fortified structures, things go to shit for one army or another in a big hurry.
One of my friends did his saurus in green and his salamanders in red, and they looked really really nice. Nice to the point where blue saurus just look totally wrong to me.
Use magic missiles against shades in buildings. Then they're just t3 elves.
That does slightly assume that you have magic missiles to use and that they do not get dispelled.
It does. It's not that unreasonable an assumption, however. I agree that they're a pain in the butt.
You shut your whore mouth, infernal gate ate an ENTIRE UNIT of my swordmasters.
it was...
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
also, thanks for the list
I can't decide what army to start, seeing as I want to play after a prolonged hiatus, and my fucking ogres man...
Dark Elves. One of us. One of us.
my only problem is t3
that is a concern
you know what in the dark elf army isn't t3? hydras. also, always-strike-firsting halberds with WS5 and rerolls every round. also, assassins' daggers that go snicker-snack, snicker-snack.
You get around t3 by MURDERING FASTER.
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
That's really it. As long as you don't hit a tarpit a good portion of the game ends up being running into a block, murdering it and popping out the other side. Your biggest enemy is shooting, but a judicious use of Chillwind, Word of Pain (such an underrated spell) and Shades will clean that up.
executioners or BG
BG, by a mile. I have tried to use Executioners in every way possible, and their only real use is a group of 6 or so that cleans up after BG. BG need to be babysat by some high S characters every now and then, but there is literally no list I would consider that doesn't have at least a block of 12 with: standard bearer, Hag Graef, Tower Master and Crimson Death. Even my 1000 point army has that.
Seriously. Black guard are insane, and you can run them in small units because they generate their CR through kills instead of being in huge blocks. And with Hag Graef, they're just... you can't even charge and maybe get the murder ball rolling against them. You run a big killy unit into them, and the BG chew up a lot of them, maybe take one casualty, and even if they lose combat they just roll a 10 or less and keep chugging on.
And they're so cheap too. BG by a mile, like duck said.
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA