Holy shit, this week? I am soo in. You guys have no idea how much I played MTGO, no idea. To this day I still think drafting magic is just about the perfect game. It is just too damn expensive. If this was based on drafting it might be my goty.
(one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care)
Were you at a tourney? 'Cos if not, that's just being a twat.
Not really? Tournament rules are specifically designed to create the most balanced and tightly-designed game as possible and there's really nothing wrong with wanting to enforce them outside of tournaments.
This is speaking as someone who's never really played Magic though. If it was one of those things where you were using an old card that's no longer allowed because it's not recent enough or something then yeah that's silly.
(one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care)
Were you at a tourney? 'Cos if not, that's just being a twat.
Not really? Tournament rules are specifically designed to create the most balanced and tightly-designed game as possible and there's really nothing wrong with wanting to enforce them outside of tournaments.
This is speaking as someone who's never really played Magic though. If it was one of those things where you were using an old card that's no longer allowed because it's not recent enough or something then yeah that's silly.
It depends on what he means by "not tourney legal". If you're ignoring the 4-card rule so you can play 40 Surging Flame, 20 Simian Spirit Guide - then fair enough, that's grounds for complaint. If you're ignoring rotations because you want to play Armadillo Cloak in your GW deck, that's a different matter. There, the deck doesn't need to be tourney legal, 'cos you're not in a tournament - and when you're playing casual, that's for each group to self-regulate. If he busts out a Cascade Swans deck, and gets upset your deck isn't Standard-legal, that's his fault for not finding out about your playgroup.
It's different if the playgroup chooses to play according to tourney rules, of course. But to complain because a casual group chooses to play casual rules? That's the objectionable bit.
Holy shit. The original Duels of the Planeswalkers is what introduced me to Magic in the first place. Nice to see it's getting an update.
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back. Marginally angry about not being able to block/sac anymore, as that affects a lot of major black, black/green and red strats.
Otherwise, this is a good thing.
As for tourney rules, I don't see why you wouldn't enforce them, at least in terms of the steps of a turn and when it's legal to cast spells or attack, etc. It's the only real way to play the game. We don't really enforce it in deck composition, since we're not in a tourney, but we try to stick to Type 2 as much as possible anyway.
darksteel on
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back.
You've read it wrong. It's the attacker who lines up the order.
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back.
You've read it wrong. It's the attacker who lines up the order.
I did read it wrong! In this case, all is well. Still a bit miffed about not being able to blocksac, but less so than before.
darksteel on
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back.
You've read it wrong. It's the attacker who lines up the order.
I did read it wrong! In this case, all is well. Still a bit miffed about not being able to blocksac, but less so than before.
Well, you can still blocksac, just you won't deal combat damage if you do. So, now there's a strategic choice to make.
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back.
You've read it wrong. It's the attacker who lines up the order.
I did read it wrong! In this case, all is well. Still a bit miffed about not being able to blocksac, but less so than before.
Well, you can still blocksac, just you won't deal combat damage if you do. So, now there's a strategic choice to make.
That's the thing, though. I always thought that Mogg Fanatic was called the way it was because it was supposed to attack/block, deal combat damage, then sacrifice for 1. It was an interesting spin on a 1/1 creature, and it put a lot of psychological pressure on your opponent, plus it fit the theme of red. Yes, I know that Mogg Fanatic wasn't meant to be used this way at first, but that's what the players turned it into. And most everyone liked it anyway, at least where I'm from. Indeed, the fact that Mogg Fanatic was reprinted uncommon in 10thEd meant that Wizards was acknowledging its usefulness. The concept of a creature dying and then sacrificing just made so much game sense to me for some reason, that it's hard to get out of my system.
Let me give you an example in another game. Skiing was a pretty big bug in Tribes 1. It allowed players to traverse vast map distances in very little time. But in Tribes 2, they even give you a tutorial on how to do it. Was it unintuitive? Yes, perhaps. But they were acknowledging how it made the game deeper and more fun. And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
Let me give you an example in another game. Skiing was a pretty big bug in Tribes 1. It allowed players to traverse vast map distances in very little time. But in Tribes 2, they even give you a tutorial on how to do it. Was it unintuitive? Yes, perhaps. But they were acknowledging how it made the game deeper and more fun. And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
I wish they would have done something like this for wavedashing in Smash Bros, instead of making the game shallower.
SuMa.Lustre on
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
i was just going to say wavedashing
except it's not even nearly the same in how much it affects gameplay but
And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
I will definitely agree that it makes the cards less powerful, but I would argue that this is one of the few examples where the change in rules results in deeper, more strategic gameplay. Before, you knew that whenever you blocked with Fanatic and it was going to die - actually, let's use Ravenous Baloth here, because it's got a better tension to illustrate - you were going to sac it, and not to do so was a plain and simple error. Now there's a decision to be made - do you want to deal combat damage, or do you want to ping something for 1?
That's adding depth to the mechanics. I can see arguments that we're losing depth elsewhere - I see it more as depth is being redistributed; but here, on this specific issue, we're gaining depth.
And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
I will definitely agree that it makes the cards less powerful, but I would argue that this is one of the few examples where the change in rules results in deeper, more strategic gameplay. Before, you knew that whenever you blocked with Fanatic and it was going to die - actually, let's use Ravenous Baloth here, because it's got a better tension to illustrate - you were going to sac it, and not to do so was a plain and simple error. Now there's a decision to be made - do you want to deal combat damage, or do you want to ping something for 1?
That's adding depth to the mechanics. I can see arguments that we're losing depth elsewhere - I see it more as depth is being redistributed; but here, on this specific issue, we're gaining depth.
And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
I will definitely agree that it makes the cards less powerful, but I would argue that this is one of the few examples where the change in rules results in deeper, more strategic gameplay. Before, you knew that whenever you blocked with Fanatic and it was going to die - actually, let's use Ravenous Baloth here, because it's got a better tension to illustrate - you were going to sac it, and not to do so was a plain and simple error. Now there's a decision to be made - do you want to deal combat damage, or do you want to ping something for 1?
That's adding depth to the mechanics. I can see arguments that we're losing depth elsewhere - I see it more as depth is being redistributed; but here, on this specific issue, we're gaining depth.
A reasonable argument, and I can acknowledge your position. I admit I didn't think about it as depth being "redistributed" so to speak, and using Ravenous Baloth as an example turned me around. Indeed, it does seem that it is adding more points of decision for the player rather than simplifying the game.
Pretty sure that, unless you played at official tournies, just about every group of players had a different inturperation of the rules (as it looks like I too played it wrong in a slightly different way all those years) .
Oh yeah, I've played "Mana burn at end of turn" rules forever. And there are plenty of little things that my group does wrong/our way because the real rules can be annoying. Then when some new person tries to rules lawyer us with tourney rules (one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care) the rest of us boo them down until they shut up and accept it.
Man am I ever on the other side of this spectrum. If you have house rules, that's fine, but at least know they are house rules. If someone came over to your house to join your regular Scrabble game, and objected when you invoked your standard 'you can swap any vowels you have for ones you need' rule, would you shout that person down too?
Holy shit, this week? I am soo in. You guys have no idea how much I played MTGO, no idea. To this day I still think drafting magic is just about the perfect game. It is just too damn expensive. If this was based on drafting it might be my goty.
Oh, is it where everyone buys like 4 or 5 booster packs, then construct a deck out of it and play a tournament? This was always my prefered way of playing the game, beats playing with pre-constructed decks by a long shot.
Holy shit, this week? I am soo in. You guys have no idea how much I played MTGO, no idea. To this day I still think drafting magic is just about the perfect game. It is just too damn expensive. If this was based on drafting it might be my goty.
Oh, is it where everyone buys like 4 or 5 booster packs, then construct a deck out of it and play a tournament? This was always my prefered way of playing the game, beats playing with pre-constructed decks by a long shot.
That's "sealed deck," which is awesome in its own right, but not quite as involved as drafting. In drafting (the basic form, there are variants obv.) eight players have 3 boosters of 15 cards. Each player opens his first booster, takes one card, and passes the remaining 14 to the left. He then takes one card from the 14 cards he received from his right. And so on, until each player has 15 cards. Then he opens his next booster, takes one, and passes to the right. Final booster is to the left.
Then you construct the best 40 card deck you can, adding any basic land you need.
I'm with corin7 100%. Drafting magic when you know a set and can receive and send signals in the cards you are getting and passing is one of the deepest and most nuanced gaming experiences you can have. I was a drafting junkie on MTGO for a long time (from launch until those fucking Mimics).
Yea drafting with out the chance of drop drafters (draft all the rares that come to you then don't play) would be awesome. I would consider paying full price for an online game with drafting.
I have said WotC should make block games(or standard) for the DS since the DS came out. This game is about as close to that as I will get I think. DS games based on the previous years block every year would be an auto purchase still tho, even if they wanted to charge me like 60 bucks for it.
Yea drafting with out the chance of drop drafters (draft all the rares that come to you then don't play) would be awesome. I would consider paying full price for an online game with drafting.
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
I think I will be getting this for the reasons everyone has stated: Magic is great, but massively expensive. I just hope that this won't make me like the new cards/relove the game and turn MTGO back on.
Holy shit, this week? I am soo in. You guys have no idea how much I played MTGO, no idea. To this day I still think drafting magic is just about the perfect game. It is just too damn expensive. If this was based on drafting it might be my goty.
Oh, is it where everyone buys like 4 or 5 booster packs, then construct a deck out of it and play a tournament? This was always my prefered way of playing the game, beats playing with pre-constructed decks by a long shot.
That's "sealed deck," which is awesome in its own right, but not quite as involved as drafting. In drafting (the basic form, there are variants obv.) eight players have 3 boosters of 15 cards. Each player opens his first booster, takes one card, and passes the remaining 14 to the left. He then takes one card from the 14 cards he received from his right. And so on, until each player has 15 cards. Then he opens his next booster, takes one, and passes to the right. Final booster is to the left.
Then you construct the best 40 card deck you can, adding any basic land you need.
I'm with corin7 100%. Drafting magic when you know a set and can receive and send signals in the cards you are getting and passing is one of the deepest and most nuanced gaming experiences you can have. I was a drafting junkie on MTGO for a long time (from launch until those fucking Mimics).
MD5 was the only block I drafted a lot off. Christ I spent so much money that year, but it was worth it. I would gladly pay $60 a year for an app that just does that years block and only drafts. That would beat the shit out of yearly Maddens.
Holy shit, this week? I am soo in. You guys have no idea how much I played MTGO, no idea. To this day I still think drafting magic is just about the perfect game. It is just too damn expensive. If this was based on drafting it might be my goty.
Oh, is it where everyone buys like 4 or 5 booster packs, then construct a deck out of it and play a tournament? This was always my prefered way of playing the game, beats playing with pre-constructed decks by a long shot.
That's "sealed deck," which is awesome in its own right, but not quite as involved as drafting. In drafting (the basic form, there are variants obv.) eight players have 3 boosters of 15 cards. Each player opens his first booster, takes one card, and passes the remaining 14 to the left. He then takes one card from the 14 cards he received from his right. And so on, until each player has 15 cards. Then he opens his next booster, takes one, and passes to the right. Final booster is to the left.
Then you construct the best 40 card deck you can, adding any basic land you need.
I'm with corin7 100%. Drafting magic when you know a set and can receive and send signals in the cards you are getting and passing is one of the deepest and most nuanced gaming experiences you can have. I was a drafting junkie on MTGO for a long time (from launch until those fucking Mimics).
MD5 was the only block I drafted a lot off. Christ I spent so much money that year, but it was worth it. I would gladly pay $60 a year for an app that just does that years block and only drafts. That would beat the shit out of yearly Maddens.
See there are so many people willing to drop money on annual block games like this it's almost stupid for them not to offer it.
Do drafts, and maybe a sealed deck league option and I would be WoW level addicted.
I would totally be willing to pay a MMORPG-like subscription fee of $10-$15/month for Magic Online with unlimited drafting, tournaments, and access to whatever cards I want for deck construction. Unfortunately, Wizards has decided that they'll make more money charging people for individual booster packs & the like.
I would totally be willing to pay a MMORPG-like subscription fee of $10-$15/month for Magic Online with unlimited drafting, tournaments, and access to whatever cards I want for deck construction. Unfortunately, Wizards has decided that they'll make more money charging people for individual booster packs & the like.
Well of course, they would lost a shit ton of money if they did something like that. Hell I'm one of those people who hates digital distribution and wants a tangible product for my money, and I would take something like you described over the real game any day.
The issue with doing that is it pretty much destroys the card game unless the online game is at least a full block behind at all times.
Who wants to endure the tournament scenes many... "Characters" when they can sit home and play sans foul odor and emotional outbursts?
Funny tournament story:
PTQ I played in (2001 maybe) after 2-0 win in a pair of 5-6 turn games in the second round the kid I was playing totally flipped and starts ripping up his cards and crying calling me a freaking asshole and telling me how bad my deck was. Nothing I never seen(well flip out not the card ripping), best part about the story imo, his deck was BORROWED lol. The kid who owned the deck was so pissed it was amazing.
I would be a ok with it being a full block behind to preserve the paper game. I literally haven't played at all the last several years due to the cost of MTGO.
corin7 on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
The issue with doing that is it pretty much destroys the card game unless the online game is at least a full block behind at all times.
Who wants to endure the tournament scenes many... "Characters" when they can sit home and play sans foul odor and emotional outbursts?
Way OT, I'm sorry:
Going to tournaments always a fun experience for me - I'm actually considering looking up when there's the next one in my area and going there just to get my ass handed to me after all these years of non-activity.
I don't know how you guys used to handle droppers, but we just had everyone hand out their rares and put them all on the desk after the tournament, then the first placed could pick one card of his choice, then the second, and so on. The only real flipside of this was that there weren't really any worthwile cards to be had after the 5th or so pick, but that's really more a fault of WotC.
Well I enjoy tournaments as well, the face to face play and bluffing potential is not there in a virtual game.
Most of my drafts were played at varied sanctioned tournaments and friends of mine would commonly draft rares and not play in the events to get tradable cards, some would not only rare draft but would seemingly have the uncanny ability to win with total trash decks besides. But if you get lucky you could make a very good profit off of drop drafting at the right tables.
A side benifit of this xbla game is I may drop the money to supply a few friends with copies of this game who haven't ever got the chance to be hopelessly addicted to pieces of cardboard in hopes that I can have people to hit prerelease tournaments and the like with from time to time.
Anyone ambitious enough to set up some tourneys or PA gamertags for this? I'm interested in getting back into magic. (I think I stopped playing around 1997)
Anyone ambitious enough to set up some tourneys or PA gamertags for this? I'm interested in getting back into magic. (I think I stopped playing around 1997)
I'll be compiling a list of gamertags in the OP of those who are interested in some online matches.
I'm interested in this since I'd like to play some magic again but I don't want to spend a hojillion dollars. Hopefully they'll add more constructed decks to work with in the future.
I was always a pure casual player and I quit playing a long time ago, around Weatherlight. Recently though I've been very interested in reading all about competitive and near competitive decks and tourneys. It's really interesting stuff, I really like the articles at MTG Salvation. Their forums for competitive decks are pretty interesting as well.
There's something about a well made combo or control deck that's just awesome to read about.
Posts
Not really? Tournament rules are specifically designed to create the most balanced and tightly-designed game as possible and there's really nothing wrong with wanting to enforce them outside of tournaments.
This is speaking as someone who's never really played Magic though. If it was one of those things where you were using an old card that's no longer allowed because it's not recent enough or something then yeah that's silly.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
It's different if the playgroup chooses to play according to tourney rules, of course. But to complain because a casual group chooses to play casual rules? That's the objectionable bit.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I like the rules changes, except for one thing. That the defender gets to choose the order of creatures that line up to receive damage from an attacker. That shit is stupid, and makes walls waaaay too strong now. Especially if you combo that with prevent damage effects. Change that shit back. Marginally angry about not being able to block/sac anymore, as that affects a lot of major black, black/green and red strats.
Otherwise, this is a good thing.
As for tourney rules, I don't see why you wouldn't enforce them, at least in terms of the steps of a turn and when it's legal to cast spells or attack, etc. It's the only real way to play the game. We don't really enforce it in deck composition, since we're not in a tourney, but we try to stick to Type 2 as much as possible anyway.
Chimney Imp dies and I get to play my pink-eyed Purple Dragon for free!
Now I am attacking your life points!
I did read it wrong! In this case, all is well. Still a bit miffed about not being able to blocksac, but less so than before.
chimney imp cannot die
That's the thing, though. I always thought that Mogg Fanatic was called the way it was because it was supposed to attack/block, deal combat damage, then sacrifice for 1. It was an interesting spin on a 1/1 creature, and it put a lot of psychological pressure on your opponent, plus it fit the theme of red. Yes, I know that Mogg Fanatic wasn't meant to be used this way at first, but that's what the players turned it into. And most everyone liked it anyway, at least where I'm from. Indeed, the fact that Mogg Fanatic was reprinted uncommon in 10thEd meant that Wizards was acknowledging its usefulness. The concept of a creature dying and then sacrificing just made so much game sense to me for some reason, that it's hard to get out of my system.
Let me give you an example in another game. Skiing was a pretty big bug in Tribes 1. It allowed players to traverse vast map distances in very little time. But in Tribes 2, they even give you a tutorial on how to do it. Was it unintuitive? Yes, perhaps. But they were acknowledging how it made the game deeper and more fun. And depth of mechanics is always what I'm looking for. Taking away blocksac seems like it just cripples a lot of cards specifically made for that purpose.
I wish they would have done something like this for wavedashing in Smash Bros, instead of making the game shallower.
except it's not even nearly the same in how much it affects gameplay but
That's adding depth to the mechanics. I can see arguments that we're losing depth elsewhere - I see it more as depth is being redistributed; but here, on this specific issue, we're gaining depth.
damnit, we're geeks, we fear change!
Stop be so logical about it!
A reasonable argument, and I can acknowledge your position. I admit I didn't think about it as depth being "redistributed" so to speak, and using Ravenous Baloth as an example turned me around. Indeed, it does seem that it is adding more points of decision for the player rather than simplifying the game.
Man am I ever on the other side of this spectrum. If you have house rules, that's fine, but at least know they are house rules. If someone came over to your house to join your regular Scrabble game, and objected when you invoked your standard 'you can swap any vowels you have for ones you need' rule, would you shout that person down too?
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
edit: Never mind, it's 800 pts I believe
One question, will there be a way to play this game with other players on one console?
Oh, is it where everyone buys like 4 or 5 booster packs, then construct a deck out of it and play a tournament? This was always my prefered way of playing the game, beats playing with pre-constructed decks by a long shot.
That's "sealed deck," which is awesome in its own right, but not quite as involved as drafting. In drafting (the basic form, there are variants obv.) eight players have 3 boosters of 15 cards. Each player opens his first booster, takes one card, and passes the remaining 14 to the left. He then takes one card from the 14 cards he received from his right. And so on, until each player has 15 cards. Then he opens his next booster, takes one, and passes to the right. Final booster is to the left.
Then you construct the best 40 card deck you can, adding any basic land you need.
I'm with corin7 100%. Drafting magic when you know a set and can receive and send signals in the cards you are getting and passing is one of the deepest and most nuanced gaming experiences you can have. I was a drafting junkie on MTGO for a long time (from launch until those fucking Mimics).
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
I have said WotC should make block games(or standard) for the DS since the DS came out. This game is about as close to that as I will get I think. DS games based on the previous years block every year would be an auto purchase still tho, even if they wanted to charge me like 60 bucks for it.
This they have.
You can also get a solid vicarious drafting thrill for free following the online draft walkthroughs (esp. Calavera's) over at Star City Games.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Basically I hope this isn't a gateway drug.
My panties are so wet for not having to spend moneys to get cards to play MtG.
MD5 was the only block I drafted a lot off. Christ I spent so much money that year, but it was worth it. I would gladly pay $60 a year for an app that just does that years block and only drafts. That would beat the shit out of yearly Maddens.
See there are so many people willing to drop money on annual block games like this it's almost stupid for them not to offer it.
Do drafts, and maybe a sealed deck league option and I would be WoW level addicted.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
Well of course, they would lost a shit ton of money if they did something like that. Hell I'm one of those people who hates digital distribution and wants a tangible product for my money, and I would take something like you described over the real game any day.
The Pipe Vault|Twitter|Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
Who wants to endure the tournament scenes many... "Characters" when they can sit home and play sans foul odor and emotional outbursts?
Funny tournament story:
emotional outbursts are ten times worse online coming from an avid player of both. modo definitely smells nicer though
Way OT, I'm sorry:
Going to tournaments always a fun experience for me - I'm actually considering looking up when there's the next one in my area and going there just to get my ass handed to me after all these years of non-activity.
I don't know how you guys used to handle droppers, but we just had everyone hand out their rares and put them all on the desk after the tournament, then the first placed could pick one card of his choice, then the second, and so on. The only real flipside of this was that there weren't really any worthwile cards to be had after the 5th or so pick, but that's really more a fault of WotC.
Most of my drafts were played at varied sanctioned tournaments and friends of mine would commonly draft rares and not play in the events to get tradable cards, some would not only rare draft but would seemingly have the uncanny ability to win with total trash decks besides. But if you get lucky you could make a very good profit off of drop drafting at the right tables.
A side benifit of this xbla game is I may drop the money to supply a few friends with copies of this game who haven't ever got the chance to be hopelessly addicted to pieces of cardboard in hopes that I can have people to hit prerelease tournaments and the like with from time to time.
I'll be compiling a list of gamertags in the OP of those who are interested in some online matches.
The Pipe Vault|Twitter|Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
I was always a pure casual player and I quit playing a long time ago, around Weatherlight. Recently though I've been very interested in reading all about competitive and near competitive decks and tourneys. It's really interesting stuff, I really like the articles at MTG Salvation. Their forums for competitive decks are pretty interesting as well.
There's something about a well made combo or control deck that's just awesome to read about.
Magic? On the Xbox?
I'm gonna be so fat and pale come winter.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.