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[XBLA]Magic the Gathering: Duels of the Planeswalkers. Now Available on Steam!!!

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Posts

  • ShamusShamus Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I like pulling stupid shit against the computer.

    Like having Jagged Scar Archers pumped up to 327/327.

    Or summoning 50 Dragons.

    The AI just shuts down.

    Shamus on
  • Gar kingGar king Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't like how you can't examine all the cards at anytime. Its really cumbersome because I'm not use to the cards yet.

    Gar king on
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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Gar king wrote: »
    I don't like how you can't examine all the cards at anytime. Its really cumbersome because I'm not use to the cards yet.

    Of course you bloody can! One of left or right stick allows free card select. One of left or right trigger zooms in on selected card.

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Serule wrote: »
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    Another thing: As decks get bigger, how does the land ratio compensate, if at all? I find the white deck fully unlocked has WAY too much land, as I'm usually sitting at 8 or 9 by game's end. I draw too much land and then I get screwed over by not having anything to play.

    The game definitely adds lands as you add cards. You can check this yourself - when you start a game, look at how many cards are left in your deck and add the cards in your hand. If you add three or four spells you will see six or seven cards added to your deck. I don't know the exact ratio, but it's around one land per two spells added.

    It'll be worth checking out when I get back onto my xbox. Thanks!


    There is no reason to dump all of you unlocked cards into the deck at the same time. I have the mono-green deck almost fully unlocked and have much better luck only added two or three cards instead of all 17. Better odds of your big nasty cards coming up instead of another copy of one you already have out.

    I don't have all the cards in my decks at once.. just the useful ones/ones better than the normal cards you can normally have out. I hate the artifacts that pump your life by one when you play x color spell, for instance and never put those in. The problem lies in some decks having/needing less/more mana than the game gives you.. and even if you put in the bigger casting cost cards, your 2 and 3 casting cost cards are quickly overshadowed by decks with a more solid mana curve. Some decks are simply more shitty because of this (barring an excellent draw vs an average draw) and I hope they allow you to take out cards to put others in because playing a 72 card deck with more mana than you need is pooooop!

    White deck: Only 8 of the unlocks I wouldn't put into my deck normally. If you put the rest in you ruin the deck's mana curve. Serra Angel, Paladin en-Vec, Wrath of God, Voice of All, Skyhunter Skirmisher? All top-notch cards!

    I suppose I'll have to prune the deck to only the best couple of unlocks and try to work out the mana curves of each deck myself using the deck/unlock list and my own findings based on auto land inclusion. This is so different than 60 card constructed so I'mma have troubles though. :P

    I pray that they allow us to replace cards in a future patch or DLC or something.

    NOTE: Not bashing the game.. for $10 I got a solid product that's very very fun. My complaints are peppering the thread because I have a deep rooted love for MtG and want to see their next project/DLC/patch with everything the game lacked.

    4rch3nemy on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    This is wizards, what you ask for you will get.

    For a price.

    chamberlain on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2009
    OK, Magic beginner here. Working through the campaign and am playing Garruk (match three, I think) and losing every time. I think what I need to do is either play the white deck against him and whittle him down through flyers while hoping he doesn't pull that incredibly annoying card that gets him back 8 life, or just play green against him and hope for a better draw. I've lost about five times in a row against him, though, and just wanted to make sure I wasn't barking up the wrong tree.

    Bogart on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So the green/black elf deck seems to be the most popular online. I hate it so much. If it gets the right draw, it's really tough to stop. Mono-blue seems to work, but I need to unlock the rest of the deck.

    chamberlain on
  • BonesNYCBonesNYC Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I wish I saw the occasional elf deck, I feel like I've been facing the black deck for 20 games now!

    I just started playing the White/Red/Green deck and have had a few games where I've only pulled mana for the entire time.

    BonesNYC on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BonesNYC wrote: »
    I wish I saw the occasional elf deck, I feel like I've been facing the black deck for 20 games now!

    I just started playing the White/Red/Green deck and have had a few games where I've only pulled mana for the entire time.

    This is why I plan to stick to the single color decks. Slightly less chance of getting mana screwed.

    chamberlain on
  • TyrantCowTyrantCow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Okay, I spent a ton of time with this game this weekend.

    If you like Magic, this is probably worth the $10.

    But, as the thread has been saying, the manageability of the decks leads to every game being more or less based on the luck of the draw. I would argue that most cards games are going to be inherently based on luck; given the polar opposite of pre-built decks (I think) would be access to all every card made. If you could create a deck from every card, there would be 'optimal' builds which (if the game has overall balance) would result in the 'luck of the draw', anyway.

    I think giving full deck customization would result in experienced players mercilessly destroying inexperienced players, and have (hopefully) good, close 'luck of the draw' games with each other. Given the option, if I were the developer, I would want the former as both result in the same outcome but one is more forgiving to new-comers (always good if you're trying to sell a game).

    Granted, full deck customization would allow for more variety and presumably extend the game, some could also argue here that 'forcing' evenly paired opponents may also extend the life of a game with competition being the motivator as opposed to unlocking content.

    So, I would love more customization; but, I totally see where the developers are coming from; and, I don't think it was a bad decision for them to make.

    One thing that really bugs me is that you can't 'remove' the 'stock' cards from a deck, even if replacing them with newly unlocked cards. i.e. I think the Red deck could be a much better if you could get rid of the Hill Giants when you had 4 new cards to replace them.


    The decks [1 on 1]...
    In my (somewhat limited experience) the Black and Green/Black decks are slightly better than the rest. With Blue pretty much being a coin flip every game.
    I played through single player with each deck - the computer plays a relatively good game. The AI doesn't make a lot of stupid mistakes and generally is aggressive/passive at (what I think) are the appropriate times. Black and Green/Black won best of 3 just about every time (vs White was always drawn out, some unexpected/wonky stuff may happen by the end of such a long game).
    Now, this isn't with every card unlocked; but, I honestly doubt that's going to make a game changing difference. As, the cards I have seen are usually are quite sensible - not like you're going to unlock Mox or anything.


    I like it.

    TyrantCow on
  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Those gain +1 health when play certain color artifacts can be pretty good in a 4 person game. But total waste otherwise

    greeble on
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  • TyrantCowTyrantCow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    Those gain +1 health when play certain color artifacts can be pretty good in a 4 person game. But total waste otherwise

    all i've been playing so far is 1 on 1; and the first thing i do when i get those is take them out.

    TyrantCow on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    Those gain +1 health when play certain color artifacts can be pretty good in a 4 person game. But total waste otherwise

    I disagree. They only cost two, and getting them out early can make a huge difference. I don't know if I would ever have more than two in a deck but there are cheap enough to be of good use.

    chamberlain on
  • intelnaviintelnavi Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    Those gain +1 health when play certain color artifacts can be pretty good in a 4 person game. But total waste otherwise

    I disagree. They only cost two, and getting them out early can make a huge difference. I don't know if I would ever have more than two in a deck but there are cheap enough to be of good use.

    Yeah, they are good when you can get them out early or in multiples. They go pretty well with the white deck as well as you'll start to have an obscene amount of life. Gaining 2-3 life every time you do anything is a great way to stay alive against those creatures that you can't block whittling away your health. Also, in 4 person games they are god when someone is playing the same color. In multi-color decks they are pretty useless unless someone is playing one of your colors.

    intelnavi on
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    Those gain +1 health when play certain color artifacts can be pretty good in a 4 person game. But total waste otherwise

    I disagree. They only cost two, and getting them out early can make a huge difference. I don't know if I would ever have more than two in a deck but there are cheap enough to be of good use.

    In single player, I'm playing through with Teeth of the predator, and I use them against Garruk's TotP and the Elf deck. They've been the game-winning difference in both of those matchups.

    Otherwise, if only you are playing spells of that color, it's not that great.

    templewulf on
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  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    4rch3nemy on
  • TyrantCowTyrantCow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    host of a four player game quits and it kills the whole game?

    lame!

    TyrantCow on
  • ShamusShamus Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Finally got around to finishing the Co-Op Campaign, getting the final two achievements in the process I needed.

    The Elf Deck & the Red Deck is an awesome combination.

    Shamus on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    I still don't see why you are turning your nose up at free life. 1 life can make all the difference. If we could actually edit the decks down a lean, mean 45 to 60 cards I could see it, but since we are forced to play with larger decks there is no readon not to use them.

    chamberlain on
  • JeffHJeffH Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    I still don't see why you are turning your nose up at free life. 1 life can make all the difference. If we could actually edit the decks down a lean, mean 45 to 60 cards I could see it, but since we are forced to play with larger decks there is no readon not to use them.

    I don't see how deck size comes into play here. The Artifacts are worse on average than any card in the starter decks, and I'd always rather draw any creature/action spell.

    JeffH on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    JeffH wrote: »
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    I still don't see why you are turning your nose up at free life. 1 life can make all the difference. If we could actually edit the decks down a lean, mean 45 to 60 cards I could see it, but since we are forced to play with larger decks there is no readon not to use them.

    I don't see how deck size comes into play here. The Artifacts are worse on average than any card in the starter decks, and I'd always rather draw any creature/action spell.

    Well, in decks like the base green deck, you have, what, 2 spells that are 2 mana cost or lower? I'm not expecting to get a creature out, on average, till about turn 3. If I can get out an artifact on turn 2 that will net me a total of about 10 life over the course of the game, that's definitely worth it.

    In the black or red deck, though, it's terrible because you're trying to burn the enemy down before they get to their good cards. Basically, the life artifacts make sense in the slower, buildy decks but not the blitzier decks.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • JeffHJeffH Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    JeffH wrote: »
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    I still don't see why you are turning your nose up at free life. 1 life can make all the difference. If we could actually edit the decks down a lean, mean 45 to 60 cards I could see it, but since we are forced to play with larger decks there is no readon not to use them.

    I don't see how deck size comes into play here. The Artifacts are worse on average than any card in the starter decks, and I'd always rather draw any creature/action spell.

    Well, in decks like the base green deck, you have, what, 2 spells that are 2 mana cost or lower? I'm not expecting to get a creature out, on average, till about turn 3. If I can get out an artifact on turn 2 that will net me a total of about 10 life over the course of the game, that's definitely worth it.

    In the black or red deck, though, it's terrible because you're trying to burn the enemy down before they get to their good cards. Basically, the life artifacts make sense in the slower, buildy decks but not the blitzier decks.

    What if you get it late game? My complaint is you're wasting a card for something that doesn't effect the board. A creature or removal spell gives you a lot more mileage almost all of the time.

    JeffH on
  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    yeah but you're bound to pull shitty cards late game, early game, middle game at one point or another.

    I keep them in, and often times i'm rewarded for it when playing decks with no heals.

    Zephos on
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  • JeffHJeffH Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    but why not lessen the amount of shitty cards you're bound to pull

    JeffH on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    JeffH wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    JeffH wrote: »
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    YEah, they're good to stack against the AI if you know they're using the same color as you. Otherwise, 1v1, don't use the lifegain artifacts.

    I still don't see why you are turning your nose up at free life. 1 life can make all the difference. If we could actually edit the decks down a lean, mean 45 to 60 cards I could see it, but since we are forced to play with larger decks there is no readon not to use them.

    I don't see how deck size comes into play here. The Artifacts are worse on average than any card in the starter decks, and I'd always rather draw any creature/action spell.

    Well, in decks like the base green deck, you have, what, 2 spells that are 2 mana cost or lower? I'm not expecting to get a creature out, on average, till about turn 3. If I can get out an artifact on turn 2 that will net me a total of about 10 life over the course of the game, that's definitely worth it.

    In the black or red deck, though, it's terrible because you're trying to burn the enemy down before they get to their good cards. Basically, the life artifacts make sense in the slower, buildy decks but not the blitzier decks.

    What if you get it late game? My complaint is you're wasting a card for something that doesn't effect the board. A creature or removal spell gives you a lot more mileage almost all of the time.

    The value I see most often is that when I would normally have to sacrifice a small creature to stop an attack, I can just eat the attack and keep the creature to enchant/attack with/whatever later.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • MugaazMugaaz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    All new players love lifegain. Lifegain is generally worthless though. You're almost always better off building your board or destroying your opponents somehow. the 2 mana youc ould of spent on a creature will give you more effective life. It also equally good anytime you draw it. Anytime you don't draw the lifegain artifact within turns 1-3 it worth only a small percentage of it's already meager sum.

    Mugaaz on
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    JeffH wrote: »
    but why not lessen the amount of shitty cards you're bound to pull

    Yep, exactly!

    It's all about maximizing your odds (yes, even by only ONE card!) of pulling the better cards off the top of the pile.

    The artifact is useful in this format as an early game draw, but when you really need a dude, late-game bomb, removal spell, creature pump, or land.. those artifacts seem really silly. They don't alter the board in any meaningful way and that is the kicker.

    Even a 1G casting cost 2/2 bear is more useful at any point in the game since it can chump block, provide that last bit of damage, or be that body that you need to get past their last blocker. And a 1G 2/2 is a crappy creature.

    4rch3nemy on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I completely agree. Unfortunately, I only get, what, 2x G Wall of Wood and 4x 1G Bear. That's a pretty shitty ratio of cards in the deck to have something you can put on the board in the first two turns. Adding the artifacts increases the chance I'll be able to play SOMETHING before I've had to pass my turn TWICE.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I completely agree. Unfortunately, I only get, what, 2x G Wall of Wood and 4x 1G Bear. That's a pretty shitty ratio of cards in the deck to have something you can put on the board in the first two turns. Adding the artifacts increases the chance I'll be able to play SOMETHING before I've had to pass my turn TWICE.

    The mana curves of the deck are another issue too, but with late game bombs and removal providing the most utility in these decks, that extra couple life you'd get would only help you lose slower or win with more life.

    You're right with what you said up there though.. the utility of being able to let the opponent swing in without having to block with your creatures so you can eke out that extra couple damage on your turn to swing is pretty useful.

    I personally don't want to waste my deck's precious topdecking odds on a late-game lifegain artifact (that doesn't see any utility until a couple spells of your color have been cast anyways).

    If only we could replace cards instead of just adding them on top of an already cluttered deck..

    SIGH

    4rch3nemy on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    4rch3nemy wrote: »

    If only we could replace cards instead of just adding them on top of an already cluttered deck..

    SIGH

    Most of the decks do seem rather directionless.

    chamberlain on
  • PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I really think they're going to patch in limited deck fiddling, it's easily my main complaint about the game. I played 3 matches in a row last night where I drew land late in the game for at least 4 turns in a row. In a deck like the black one where you rarely need more than 4 land at a time, I'd much rather have less land and more good stuff.

    Also, because I haven't been playing obsessively, do any of you guys have an estimate of how long it takes to unlock all of the cards for a deck?

    Peen on
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I completely agree. Unfortunately, I only get, what, 2x G Wall of Wood and 4x 1G Bear. That's a pretty shitty ratio of cards in the deck to have something you can put on the board in the first two turns. Adding the artifacts increases the chance I'll be able to play SOMETHING before I've had to pass my turn TWICE.

    Don't forget the 2 Rampant Growth.

    I agree that the life gain artifact are generally really bad. In general, life gain is only useful if it's a bonus to an otherwise solid card, my favorite examples being Exalted Angel (4WW for a 4/5 flyer with lifelink who also has morph 2WW) & Teroh's Faithful (3W for a 1/4 comes into play, gain 4 life; useful in decks with a lot of remove/return into play effects).

    RainbowDespair on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • JeffHJeffH Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.


    tarmogoyf would like a word with you sir

    JeffH on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    JeffH wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.


    tarmogoyf would like a word with you sir

    Man, I don't even know what the words you say mean. Google tells me that the card was rigoddamndiculous, though.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.

    Nah, I'd say Birds of Paradise is better in most decks unless you're specifically going for an Elf tribal theme.

    RainbowDespair on
  • intelnaviintelnavi Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.

    It's weird because they are in the premium green theme.

    intelnavi on
  • chesspiecefacechesspieceface Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    JeffH wrote: »
    but why not lessen the amount of shitty cards you're bound to pull

    Yep, exactly!

    It's all about maximizing your odds (yes, even by only ONE card!) of pulling the better cards off the top of the pile.

    Not to mention the lands that are automatically added to your deck just to put those cards in. Life gain artifacts look good but they will never win a game for you. They just delay the inevitable. They may, on occasion, keep you alive long enough to pull your win condition but then again you would have just gotten that quicker had the artifact and extra land not been in your deck to begin with.

    Obviously they have more value in 2+ player games where the threats to your game are more complex.

    chesspieceface on
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  • PjstelfordPjstelford Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    intelnavi wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did Lanowar Elves (or an equivalent) get taken out of the game? There is simply no better green card.

    It's weird because they are in the premium green theme.

    The mana acceleration is weird across the board. Garruk's deck gets land-search elves, not land-acceleration elves, and only 2 rampant growths to hit 4 mana on turn 3. The elves should be their 1/1 version, allowing 5 mana on turn 4.

    Then there are the elves, which could benefit from the 2/2 body more and mainly should be using the land search for color fixing, not needing an acceleration up to five mana on turn 4.

    Pjstelford on
  • BrianBrian Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Online duels is like wading through a sea of elves. Wish I had a dwarf themed deck. Either way it is fun beating up on elf yuppies.

    Brian on
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