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Purchasing Guns (As an enthusiast)

LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
edited June 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
I would like to look into purchasing various types of handguns. I'm interested in finding a place to shoot, as well as a place to buy. I'm not sure if buying a gun is the same as buying anything else... in which some are higher quality than others, and some brands should be avoided, etc.

Anyone here with experience in buying/using guns for recreation? Both pistols, rifles, etc.

Are there precautions that should be followed before plopping down the money for a gun? Roughly how much do they cost? What are red flags when going somewhere to purchase one?

Thanks!

Luinmac on
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Posts

  • pinenut_canarypinenut_canary Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I myself don't know much about guns, but there's a thread in D&D all about guns that I like to peruse once in a while because I plan on buying one in the late future. I've seen some questions asked there and they were answered quite well. You can try asking there for some more focused answers, and more experienced gun enthusiasts will see you. Here's the link http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=42380.

    pinenut_canary on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Gah, I should have checked there first =/

    Thanks much, I'll ask my question there. Appreciate it :)

    Luinmac on
  • KistraKistra Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    I would like to look into purchasing various types of handguns. I'm interested in finding a place to shoot, as well as a place to buy. I'm not sure if buying a gun is the same as buying anything else... in which some are higher quality than others, and some brands should be avoided, etc.

    Anyone here with experience in buying/using guns for recreation? Both pistols, rifles, etc.

    Are there precautions that should be followed before plopping down the money for a gun? Roughly how much do they cost? What are red flags when going somewhere to purchase one?

    Thanks!

    I know you got pointed to an existing thread.

    But I found the cost part of your question very amusing. You really need to be a little bit more specific. "Guns" can range in price from $50 to $5000 depending on what you are buying.

    My advice: find a good gunsmith.

    My local one will let me try rifles and pistols out in his downstairs range and will sit and talk for 45min to an hour about what I need and will work with me to make it happen. A good gunsmith will also be familiar with the local ranges.

    Kistra on
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  • pinenut_canarypinenut_canary Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Kistra has a good point. Try out all the guns you can so you can see what are some things you like and don't like.

    pinenut_canary on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Did a little shopping around today, held a couple to get a feel for them. Might try and find a range nearby to try a few out.

    Does that cost a lot? To go somewhere and shoot?

    Luinmac on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    I know a ton about guns.

    First thing research a ton before you buy one. What reason you want one. What you are going to be using it for. How much and IF you can still find ammo for it.

    I don't know if you know this but you can't walk into a walmart and buy 9mm and .40sw anymore because its so scarce.

    When you do decide on what you want DON'T buy from a local gun shop. They cost 100-200 more than online and usually are pushy, snobby and push you towards guns they like.

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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    Did a little shopping around today, held a couple to get a feel for them. Might try and find a range nearby to try a few out.

    Does that cost a lot? To go somewhere and shoot?

    There are FREE ranges at parks if you are lucky to live near one.

    Some private ranges cost a ton. Like 16 an hour and NEVER BUY AMMO THERE!

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  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    EliteLamer wrote: »
    When you do decide on what you want DON'T buy from a local gun shop. They cost 100-200 more than online and usually are pushy, snobby and push you towards guns they like.

    I wouldn't say that, exactly. Certainly research your purchase beyond what the guy at the gun shop tells you, including the price. If the shop's prices are sane, there's no reason not to buy locally.

    Doc on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Can you just order one online and have it safely shipped to you without complications? I figured there'd be some sort of precautions to doing that?

    Like I said in the D&D thread, I was looking at reviews of an H&K USP Compact 40, and that seemed like a very nice one. The Glock 23 was also nice, but there's something about the box-like build that turns me off. I like the design of the USP, as well as the trigger-style.

    It's just too bad they're almost $800..

    Luinmac on
  • KistraKistra Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    EliteLamer wrote: »
    I know a ton about guns.

    First thing research a ton before you buy one. What reason you want one. What you are going to be using it for. How much and IF you can still find ammo for it.

    I don't know if you know this but you can't walk into a walmart and buy 9mm and .40sw anymore because its so scarce.

    When you do decide on what you want DON'T buy from a local gun shop. They cost 100-200 more than online and usually are pushy, snobby and push you towards guns they like.

    Not if you find a good one. I don't go to the closest gun shop to me but I go to one owned by a gun smith. He lets me fire guns before buying and will order anything he doesn't have in stock for a $20 charge to use his FFL. He also supports the guns we buy there for life and will do small modifications (like switching the direction of the safety since I shoot lefty) for free.

    A good gunsmith will be your best friend as you explore the world of firearms. Why wouldn't you want to support them?

    Kistra on
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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    Can you just order one online and have it safely shipped to you without complications? I figured there'd be some sort of precautions to doing that?

    Like I said in the D&D thread, I was looking at reviews of an H&K USP Compact 40, and that seemed like a very nice one. The Glock 23 was also nice, but there's something about the box-like build that turns me off. I like the design of the USP, as well as the trigger-style.

    It's just too bad they're almost $800..


    Yes the HK .40 compact is great!!!! You should consider ammo will rape though as will any .40.

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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Kistra wrote: »
    EliteLamer wrote: »
    I know a ton about guns.

    First thing research a ton before you buy one. What reason you want one. What you are going to be using it for. How much and IF you can still find ammo for it.

    I don't know if you know this but you can't walk into a walmart and buy 9mm and .40sw anymore because its so scarce.

    When you do decide on what you want DON'T buy from a local gun shop. They cost 100-200 more than online and usually are pushy, snobby and push you towards guns they like.

    Not if you find a good one. I don't go to the closest gun shop to me but I go to one owned by a gun smith. He lets me fire guns before buying and will order anything he doesn't have in stock for a $20 charge to use his FFL. He also supports the guns we buy there for life and will do small modifications (like switching the direction of the safety since I shoot lefty) for free.

    A good gunsmith will be your best friend as you explore the world of firearms. Why wouldn't you want to support them?

    Because finding a good gunsmith is pretty damn hard. All the gun shops I have been to in 100 mile radius treat you like shit. They overcharge on everything, refuse to drop the price on anything and try to sell everyone a glock.

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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    You are getting a compact so I assume this is for carry?

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  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Maybe a little, didn't really think about it. I'd like to dabble in both recreation as well as occasional carry

    Luinmac on
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    Can you just order one online and have it safely shipped to you without complications? I figured there'd be some sort of precautions to doing that?

    Like I said in the D&D thread, I was looking at reviews of an H&K USP Compact 40, and that seemed like a very nice one. The Glock 23 was also nice, but there's something about the box-like build that turns me off. I like the design of the USP, as well as the trigger-style.

    It's just too bad they're almost $800..

    You have to get it shipped to an FFL (Federal Firearms License holder) who can then sell it to you. They usually charge a fee for this. Depending on what state you live in, the process can be very easy, or very hard. Here in Kansas I fill out a little form, they run an instant background check, and 10 minutes later I'm walking out the door with my new weapon.

    Some other places require a special license to purchase a gun, or possibly a waiting period.

    RocketSauce on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So far, the online gun resources I'm looking at are more expensive that the quotes I'm hearing on forums or even what I've seen in the couple of stores I've looked at.

    You know of any good, competitively priced online gun retailers?

    Luinmac on
  • Peeps ChickenPeeps Chicken Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    EliteLamer wrote: »
    Some private ranges cost a ton. Like 16 an hour and NEVER BUY AMMO THERE!

    I'm lucky, I guess. My local range costs $15 entry, and you can stay at the range all day. You have to buy targets from them, but you can shoot the same target as much as you want. I've spent many hours having paid my $15 entry fee, my $3 for my one target, and my $10 brick of .22 ammo.

    The ammo there is actually cheaper than my other local stores too. This place is a gem. I may head there Wednesday.

    Peeps Chicken on
  • Peeps ChickenPeeps Chicken Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    So far, the online gun resources I'm looking at are more expensive that the quotes I'm hearing on forums or even what I've seen in the couple of stores I've looked at.

    You know of any good, competitively priced online gun retailers?

    Check out some of the auction sites.

    Gunbroker ( http://www.gunbroker.com/ ): For example, here's a used H&K USP Compact 9mm for $649 buyout ( http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131451633 ).

    Guns America ( http://www.gunsamerica.com/ )

    As stated, if you win, they'll ship the gun to a local FFL holder, and you'll have to complete the transaction through them. Make sure that you find one who is willing to do so, and find out if they charge anything. If they charge, that can jack the price up. Both sites have resources to search for FFL holders in your area.

    Peeps Chicken on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    Are there precautions that should be followed before plopping down the money for a gun? Roughly how much do they cost? What are red flags when going somewhere to purchase one?

    Research, research, research. Then more research.

    First thing first, you need to learn how to shoot the things. An NRA basic pistol course does a good job of going over mechanical details, eye dominance, stance, grip, breathing, and the laws of your state. Since the next thing is knowing the laws regarding purchase, possession, and carry, this is good. Plus it should include time on the range to put this into practice.

    As others have alluded to, trying out before you buy is good too. Ranges usually have some guns for rental. Since they're used by many people, they'll have much more wear on them than anything you mostly likely buy, but you at least learn if the thing feels comfortable in your hand and if it STILL feels comfortable as recoil drops by for a visit. A basic pistol class's range time goes hand in hand with renting something for your first time.

    Research ammunition prices and availability too. Prices for brass have increased in the last few years which made some ammo jump in price. Over time, the price you spend on ammo can easily eclipse what you spend on the gun. Many people start with a .22 LR firearm (either pistol or rifle, lots of examples of both out there) since .22 is dirt cheap and has negligible recoil. It's easy to learn on and won't break the bank to do so while being good for cheap fun down the line.

    When it comes time to purchase, you'll need to research where you give your business to. Some shops and/or FFLs will have great prices, others will have higher prices but great service (this can be a godsend if you're new to the hobby. Being able to just bring it in if you can't put it back together after disassembling and cleaning and the like can be worth it for a new shooter), some will have both, others just suck at both. Just remember that fanboys and e-toughness extend to other hobbies besides gaming and have your BS filter on when reading evaluations of different places to shop. And when comparing online sources to your local shops, don't forget that sales tax is a huge chunk of cash when you have prices most firearms go for. If you're lucky, you live in a place where prices are below average and service is the opposite but every area has its own characteristics in that realm.

    Steel Angel on
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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    It must vary greatly by locality cause all the ranges to which I've been require you to buy their ammo if you're renting their guns. Gun rental was $12-17/hour, ammo $11-20/box-of-50 (.22 was a lot cheaper), and they'd let you bring your own paper targets (or you could buy them for $2-3 per). If you brought your own gun you could bring your own ammo and just pay the range slot rental ($10/hr).

    These prices are about a year old, before the "oh noes, Obama's gonna take all the guns away" meme hit.

    The rental .22's at the ranges I've been to have all been horribly maintained, very high mis-fire rate. Don't think it's the ammo.

    Djeet on
  • Durandal InfinityDurandal Infinity Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    when it comes to your first pistol I generally recommend something that is easy to maintain and also had an ample supply of safety features on the weapon.

    PERSONALLY I recommend the Springfield XD9/40/45 depending on the caliber that you wish to spend money on or are comfortable with, the 9 would be the cheapest if you want to send lead down range en mass. the Glock 17 or Sig p226 are other fantastic choices for a first gun, though Springfield does offer the best bang for the buck.

    Dont count out .22LR handguns or rifles as well, a 100 dollar Ruger 10/22 is easy, cheap, cheap to maintain and you could fire for hours consistently and barely hit the 10 dollar mark.

    Dont forget WHATEVER you chose you need the proper rods, swabs, patches, and brushed for your caliber of handgun. A good deal of hoppes 9 solvent/ lubricating oil is ESSENTIAL. part of the responsibility of owning a firearm is properly cleaning and taking care of it.

    Durandal Infinity on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I found a pretty solid resource as far as gun ownership in my state... pretty large community of owners talking about the current laws, carry issues they've run into, etc. I was surprised to see that most people carry with one in the chamber... I didn't realize that was common.

    Safety is a priority. I'm really looking forward to going somewhere and shooting for the first time, I think it'll be quite a learning experience.

    As far as choosing one, I'm definetly looking into all suggestions here. Two that I looked at, for example, seemed to have differing safety features.

    Glock 23 and USP 40 Compact - The USP can be "decocked" easilly, whereas the Glock doesn't have that. Which is most common? USP has the exposed trigger/hammer, while the glock does not.

    Luinmac on
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    I found a pretty solid resource as far as gun ownership in my state... pretty large community of owners talking about the current laws, carry issues they've run into, etc. I was surprised to see that most people carry with one in the chamber... I didn't realize that was common.

    Safety is a priority. I'm really looking forward to going somewhere and shooting for the first time, I think it'll be quite a learning experience.

    As far as choosing one, I'm definetly looking into all suggestions here. Two that I looked at, for example, seemed to have differing safety features.

    Glock 23 and USP 40 Compact - The USP can be "decocked" easilly, whereas the Glock doesn't have that. Which is most common? USP has the exposed trigger/hammer, while the glock does not.

    Yeah, if you're going to carry, why not carry your weapon ready to fire.

    As for the Glock and USP, Glock is striker fired, and USP has an external hammer. That means they just have a different mechanism to activate the firing pin. IMO, an external hammer has no real advantage in terms of safety. Glock's biggest safety is in its operation. Keep your finger off the trigger, treat it as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't intend to kill.

    If you're carrying concealed, the last thing you want to do when you suddenly have to present your weapon is to fumble with an external safety. I want to present my weapon, and if needed pull the trigger and make the gun go bang. That's it.

    RocketSauce on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    I found a pretty solid resource as far as gun ownership in my state... pretty large community of owners talking about the current laws, carry issues they've run into, etc. I was surprised to see that most people carry with one in the chamber... I didn't realize that was common.

    Safety is a priority. I'm really looking forward to going somewhere and shooting for the first time, I think it'll be quite a learning experience.

    As far as choosing one, I'm definetly looking into all suggestions here. Two that I looked at, for example, seemed to have differing safety features.

    Glock 23 and USP 40 Compact - The USP can be "decocked" easilly, whereas the Glock doesn't have that. Which is most common? USP has the exposed trigger/hammer, while the glock does not.

    If you're in a situation where you need a firearm and you need it right the fuck now, generally the last thing you want to have to do is rack the slide.

    I've always been taught and told that decocking on a live round generally is the last thing you want to do, as that's a good way to cause a negligent discharge either from your thumb slipping while decocking, or from the gun falling/being sharply hit once the hammer is down.

    Whichever firearm you choose I'm glad to see that you're putting a high emphasis on safety, noting the different safety operations of each one, and becoming a responsible firearms owner.

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  • EskimoDaveEskimoDave Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    I found a pretty solid resource as far as gun ownership in my state... pretty large community of owners talking about the current laws, carry issues they've run into, etc. I was surprised to see that most people carry with one in the chamber... I didn't realize that was common.

    Safety is a priority. I'm really looking forward to going somewhere and shooting for the first time, I think it'll be quite a learning experience.

    As far as choosing one, I'm definetly looking into all suggestions here. Two that I looked at, for example, seemed to have differing safety features.

    Glock 23 and USP 40 Compact - The USP can be "decocked" easilly, whereas the Glock doesn't have that. Which is most common? USP has the exposed trigger/hammer, while the glock does not.

    If you're in a situation where you need a firearm and you need it right the fuck now, generally the last thing you want to have to do is rack the slide.
    if you don't have time to 'rack the slide' you are already dead.

    EskimoDave on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Then how do you safely disarm it?
    I've always been taught and told that decocking on a live round generally is the last thing you want to do

    Remove clip, pull back slide to empty chamber, then decock?

    Luinmac on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    EskimoDave wrote: »
    if you don't have time to 'rack the slide' you are already dead.

    And what if you have the time, but not the free hand?
    Then how do you safely disarm it?

    Engage safety, remove clip, pull back slide to empty chamber, then decock?

    All while pointing it in the safest available direction (ie: downrange)

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  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    Then how do you safely disarm it?
    I've always been taught and told that decocking on a live round generally is the last thing you want to do

    Remove clip, pull back slide to empty chamber, then decock?

    Put it back in your holster.

    Also, they're magazines, not clips.

    RocketSauce on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Also, they're magazines, not clips.

    I wasn't going to start in on that yet, he's new. :P

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  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Yeah Yeah, I should know that. I've been referring to them as mags, but it's early and I just went real quick with what was on the tip of my tongue :P

    So, safety on... remove magazine... pull slide to remove bullet (comes out on it's own)... then decock/pull trigger in safe direction.

    Is a decock button/switch the same as pulling the trigger? From what little I understand, it isn't.

    Luinmac on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Yep. The other thing that may happen is you'll do safety on, remove magazine, pull slide to remove cartridge, slide locks open on its own due to empty chamber + no magazine. Leave it there, action open and up, for the range officer to see.

    A decocker is designed to lower the hammer without firing the round in the chamber. The trigger, well, it's not as concerned with the "without firing." :P Some guns also have a half-cocked position, where it isn't fully down (in order to prevent a jostle/drop/bump from discharging) or fully cocked (to prevent a trigger snap from discharging.)

    There's a buttload of different safety features, and not all guns share all features. If you're trying out a bunch of different guns at the range, just ask questions about them. A good place will have no problems answering you.

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  • Durandal InfinityDurandal Infinity Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    you dont holster a gun with the hammer down, UNLESS it is a DAO or DAK pistol. If the gun is your only means of self defense, you generally store the gun loaded, many people will store it with the hammer decocked with a round in the chamber. THe old school way of doing so is holding the hammer with one thumb and placing the meat of your hand on the hammer and gently lowering it down onto the firing pin. BE SMART, last thing gun owners need is another accidental shooting for anti gun legislation to harp on.

    ALSO many companies will give you a lot of shit for buying their guns, look at reviews. As I said before the Springfield XD .40 is a competitor to the glock, nearly identitcal in their mechanisms. It does though have a grip safety, and is cheaper. It also comes with a ton of free shit http://www.springfield-armory.com/specialoffers.php

    Durandal Infinity on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Yeah if you were going to get a glock get a Spring field XD..

    Also, look into compact CZ's they can be had new for cheap cheap and are really good guns. They are used in a ton of shooting comps. Made 100% steel too.

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  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    There's just something about the Glock and the XD... I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the squarish-blocky slide. The USP has more "character" to it, and has DAO (which, in my case, is probably better?)

    The XD is slightly more appealing than the Glock, though, I s'pose

    Luinmac on
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Want to speak up in favor of finding a good gunsmith. You never realize how much you wish you knew a good gunsmith until the day when you're trying to figure out why your weapon keeps jamming, and you realize it's not a cleaning issue -- it's a wear issue on one of the pieces in the receiver, and you're not qualified to fix it without potentially making the weapon unsafe to handle.

    Incidentally -- I always speak up in favor of the Sig Sauer P226 in the gun threads, although I suppose if you're buying as an enthusiast it's probably more important in your case to get something you think has "character" rather that what's easiest for you to use accurately.

    SammyF on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Luinmac wrote: »
    There's just something about the Glock and the XD... I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the squarish-blocky slide. The USP has more "character" to it, and has DAO (which, in my case, is probably better?)

    The XD is slightly more appealing than the Glock, though, I s'pose

    Sounds like you really want an HK and you should get what you want or you wont be happy.

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  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    EliteLamer wrote: »
    Luinmac wrote: »
    There's just something about the Glock and the XD... I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the squarish-blocky slide. The USP has more "character" to it, and has DAO (which, in my case, is probably better?)

    The XD is slightly more appealing than the Glock, though, I s'pose

    Sounds like you really want an HK and you should get what you want if you try it out and decide you like it or you wont be happy.

    Even if you've fallen in love with the very idea and essense of a certain firearm (or anything, really) you should take it for a nice, long test-drive before you put your money down on the counter for it. But yeah, you're an enthusiast, and you seem to feel pretty enthusiastic about HK's self-loaders. Next step is probably to go try it out and find out if you enjoy it as much as you think you will.

    SammyF on
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    you dont holster a gun with the hammer down, UNLESS it is a DAO or DAK pistol. If the gun is your only means of self defense, you generally store the gun loaded, many people will store it with the hammer decocked with a round in the chamber. THe old school way of doing so is holding the hammer with one thumb and placing the meat of your hand on the hammer and gently lowering it down onto the firing pin. BE SMART, last thing gun owners need is another accidental shooting for anti gun legislation to harp on.

    Unless there is a decocker and the firearm is designed to be safe with the hammer down and a round in the chamber (a 1911 is a good example of a firearm that is not at all safe in this state. Heck, any firearm where you have to do what you wrote to decock probably qualifies as such), then to "BE SMART" would be to keep it stored with either cocked and locked, or hammer down with nothing in the chamber.

    Doc on
  • LuinmacLuinmac Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I think for starters I'd just want to see how comfortable I'd be with it without anything in the chamber... and for lack of a better phrase - playing with a loaded gun.

    Do you carry? Are you ever approached and lectured by anti-gun people? Feels like no matter how much in the right I am, and the laws I'm abiding by... I'll always be considered the bad guy.

    Luinmac on
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