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Are we making a viable decision?
Tobaggan
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Long time listener, first time etc etc
The situation is that myself and two friends are planning on moving into an apartment in the general vicinity of UW-Milwaukee. We've been doing research and seeing places, following much of the advice that I've found on this here forum.
The place we have in mind for the moment is pretty nice. The rent is $825/month with heat and water included. The estimate for gas and such was in the $40-50 range. On top of that, of course, is electricity, cable and internet. Two of us including myself plan on taking our cars.
As for our individual situations, I work at a bookstore and do reasonably well, making $400-500 a month, and I'm fairly confident I can increase that. Once in the area, I'd probably look into a second job - I have an "in" of sorts at the school library. In addition, I have about $5500 saved between checking and savings.
Friend #1 currently works at a summer job alongside his father doing the ol' 9 to 5, five days a week.
Friend #2 is between jobs, but is confident in acquiring a new one in the area. His sister has many contacts in the area. He also has saved up a considerable amount from his previous jobs, somewhere in the $5-6000 range.
I am entering my third year at UWM, Friend #1 is entering his third year at MIAD, and Friend #2 is transferring to UWM for his third year. We are 21, 20, and 20 respectively.
So H/A, I ask you if this is something that we can make work, or are we setting ourselves up for massive failure. We have no illusions that things will be comfortable and easy. From this cursory info, is moving into this apartment viable?
The situation is that myself and two friends are planning on moving into an apartment in the general vicinity of UW-Milwaukee. We've been doing research and seeing places, following much of the advice that I've found on this here forum.
The place we have in mind for the moment is pretty nice. The rent is $825/month with heat and water included. The estimate for gas and such was in the $40-50 range. On top of that, of course, is electricity, cable and internet. Two of us including myself plan on taking our cars.
As for our individual situations, I work at a bookstore and do reasonably well, making $400-500 a month, and I'm fairly confident I can increase that. Once in the area, I'd probably look into a second job - I have an "in" of sorts at the school library. In addition, I have about $5500 saved between checking and savings.
Friend #1 currently works at a summer job alongside his father doing the ol' 9 to 5, five days a week.
Friend #2 is between jobs, but is confident in acquiring a new one in the area. His sister has many contacts in the area. He also has saved up a considerable amount from his previous jobs, somewhere in the $5-6000 range.
I am entering my third year at UWM, Friend #1 is entering his third year at MIAD, and Friend #2 is transferring to UWM for his third year. We are 21, 20, and 20 respectively.
So H/A, I ask you if this is something that we can make work, or are we setting ourselves up for massive failure. We have no illusions that things will be comfortable and easy. From this cursory info, is moving into this apartment viable?
Tobaggan on
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Thinking about that, do you think that you could live on no more than $100 extra a month, based on your current job's pay?
With three people it doesn't sound like it would be too hard, but you always have to plan for the worst.
it was hard for me at $600 a month but $800 a month was like a cakewalk.
This. There's nothing worse then having three PS3's and an eviction notice.
It seems viable, but the book market is volatile right now so I don't know if your store might be closed down later (if it's a B&N or Borders).
If you were able to make an extra $4-500 a month (any part time job would get you that, really) that would really make your part of the living arrangements secure.
You are all going to be on the lease, correct? Does either friend seem susceptible to being an ass and screwing up the arrangement by missing payments on anything or having a girlfriend who he would spend all his money on (I'm not trying to rain on the parade, these are things that come to mind with an apartment)?
Absolutely, regarding what is and is not for idle spending. Both friends are the last to leave the nest, so they will be bringing plenty of stuff along as far as furnishings and entertainment (TV, xbox 360, etc.) I'm on the opposite side of things as the first of my parents' children to move out. Likewise, I can probably get away with bringing stuff with me.
I ask this because while the three of us are fairly confident we can work together and withstand inconveniences, my father is opposed to me leaving. He sees all of the many things that could go wrong and sees it as reason enough to not even try.
I've been friends with them since small times and they all have my trust in this area. I have some other friends that I wouldn't be quite so sure of, so I'm not terribly worried.
As for the book market, I am perfectly aware of the troubles we face. I'm optimistic that things will work out well in matters of the economy, but obviously optimism doesn't put food on the table. Fortunately, a library isn't as susceptible to collapse, and I can't imagine jobs are terribly difficult to find in a college-serving area.
Like we've said, $100 max is pretty low, but if you're confident you can find another (or better) job, go for it.
it gets really bad when you loan them a months rent, because then everytime you see them around the house you start thinking "why is he home? why isnt he out getting a job to pay me back? if he starts drinking before noon again im gonna kill him"
but if you think he'll have no trouble getting work it should be fine
Basic utilities are:
Electricity
Gas
Water
"Heat" is not a utility, and it depends on the house whether it falls into your gas or electric bill.
Actually this is incredibly common in areas with old buildings where it's steam heat not gas or electric. Also in many places you don't pay for water. Such as Boston, where I pay neither heat or hot water and my utilities are gas, electric and cable/internet. Also don't pay for trash.
- I'd be bringing my car, which my parents will still make the payments on. Insurance will apparently go up if I move away. Parking is not supplied by the complex, but it's on a one-way street with slant parking. I'd be getting the permit from the city.
- Tuition is still something the parents would pay for, but the past few semesters, I've had to contribute, paying 1K from my savings. I would bet that this would continue.
- The parents are worried that the small things, i.e. toiletries, cleaning equipment, minor furnishings and such would run us too much and compromise funds.
- They also tossed out the figure of ~$200 a month a person on food. Is this reasonably accurate or is it rather overblown? I don't see myself or any of my accomplices spending quite that much.
- We've scoured Craigslist and walked about the area, but we've only actually been shown three different places and we're currently acting with the one described in the OP in mind.
And would it be prying to ask if any of you who are also in college and living on their own could outline their situation and costs? I imagine I would synch up fairly well with a lot of the users here. The parents (mostly dad) are rather obsessive planners and their main thought is that, while they're not against me moving, is that I haven't thought it out and that I can't afford it.
while i didn't go to college when i lived on my own my friend did. 6-800 dollars a paycheck is about the range you want to look for though obviously more is better.
Where does the steam come from? Does that not factor into either the gas or electric bill? I mean, you don't get a bill for "steam."
Also, your hot water is paid for in your gas bill, is it not? Your hot water heater runs on gas, no?
And trash.. never heard of paying that.
The other option if it is a large building is that each unit has a thermostat but the heating is done by a central mechanism and the cost to run it is already included in the rent.
Personally during college I made $730 a month and rented places costing 200-365 a month (my share). I ate out 2-3 times a week, bought plenty of cleaning supplies and toiletries and was able to put about $150 a month into savings. I had a car that I had paid off at that point and paid my own insurance.
Steam heat is typically gas, as is the hot water. In Boston I've found you're generally going to get either gas, electric, or oil heating.
Even if the OP's heat is gas-based and included, he may also have a gas stove, which will require payment.
The OP should be fine fiscally, especially with the savings, just note you will be the stereotypical college kid who says "I'm broke" all the time. Pretty much all college kids go through this, so don't sweat it. I assume that's $825 between the 3 of you and not per person?
I ask because Boston is fucking EXPENSIVE, so here $825 per person isn't unheard of.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Some apartment buildings have a heating system where something (frequently just hot air) is heated from a central location and then sent to the apartments. In cases like that it's very typical to have heat included in the rent. However, if the apartment uses gas for other things (stove, dryer) there may still be a gas bill. The same is true for hot water in many buildings, they have a central hot water heater that supplies all the apartments, so the individual tenant may not be responsible for the costs of heating the water (aside from it being already factored into the rent in any case).
I've never had to pay for trash when I was in an apartment building, but trash pickup isn't free, so in some places the tenant may be responsible for that fee (especially if they're renting a house rather than an apartment).
That's pretty accurate.
Unless you plan on living off of nothing but hot pockets and ramen. You'll want to go out from time to time. Take dates. Etc. Of course, I lump all of my eating habits into my eating bill, where as some might consider a night on the town to fall into their "entertainment" budget.
My only overall concern is whether or not you and your friends can find enough work with enough pay. Looks like you guys could be spending upward to 1500$ a month, around 500$ each, which is your full paycheck. You also have to consider gas, entertainment, and emergency spending.
Before making the big move I'd really focus on you and your friends getting stable jobs.
Is friend #1 going to have a job/parental support, or is he blowing through savings to live there?
I'm not really sure it's feasible unless you get another job - especially since your parents want you to contribute $2k to tuition over that time.
You probably CAN do it in your current situation, I bet your bank account would be close to empty at the end of the year.
Consider housing+food+car costs+fun every month, you are blowing past your $500 right there.
If you get cable internet, they probably won't block the basic cable channels and you can just watch for free. That's what everybody I knew in college did.
Moving out is great, but I never think planning on going into your savings for a year for living expenses is a good idea.
EDIT: My general rule is to make AT MINIMUM double whatever your rent and utilities cost is every month.
If you're an idiot or live somewhere really new you pay for heat. I've been here 4 years and have never paid for heat and know only a handful of people silly enough to shell out for it (mostly in the North End lofts) when so many places have it included. It's like paying a fee in Boston, that's just dumb considering how many places are no fee. Also, if you live somewhere in Boston where heat isn't included your rent should be significantly less or you're being screwed.
Depending on the cost of cooking gas as someone who cooks daily with her gas stove the total is about $18 a month max for gas.
I spend about about $150 on food. I buy in bulk, cook a lot of meals that stretch and learned to love store brand products.
OP this is my monthly breakdown throughout the college years in one of the most expensive city's in the country.
Food:150
Gas: 9
Electric: 16
Cable/Internet: 40
T-Pass (subway): 60
Total: 925
Income: 400 work study
650 part-time work
Was it hard and did I have to pass up on some fun times? Sure. Was it completely worth it? Yes. My only concern is your car costs. I sold mine when I moved for school because the cost of keeping it was nowhere near worth it. Car insurance isn't cheap and that could be what kills your plan.
You'll make it except for the unforeseen car costs, like oil change, tire rotation, NEW tires, hike in gas prices. Also, video game purchases, clothing, shoes. Granted you don't buy some of those very often but when your budget is TIGHT then having to spend $100 on some new clothes and $70 on new shoes once or twice a year, on top of car maintenance, and b-day gifts, and x-mas gifts and the myriad of little things chipping away at your pocketbook.
Also don't get a pet, encourage your roommates not to get a pet, that just creates a whole new list of extra costs.
Basically what I'm saying is, the little shit that's not even a recurring cost, adds up. Especially when trying to live so close to your income. So get a better/2nd job. Work more hours or something.
This is the best advice i have ever read on this forum ever. Seriously.
Also... this no paying for heat thing, that must be very specific to your region. I have never heard of "heat" as a thing. Everywhere I have lived we paid electricity that powered a furnace or shudder heat pump
It's true pretty much anywhere in the northeast or midwest where I've lived and is most likely because of the potentially very large winter heating bills.
If this is the case, it will be the only way you will be able to afford this. If you do have to pay electric or gas for heat you will run into trouble come December. I live in a gut/rehab of an old building with a high efficiency gas furnace for just my unit and I still pay about $120/month from Dec-Feb.
So for the sake of being prepared, go through the following hypothetical scenario: If one (or both) of your friends falls behind on rent, borrows a bunch of money from you, and then mysteriously skips town in the middle of the night, where does that leave you? Will you be able to cover rent? Will you break the lease? Will you find a new roommate to live with (IE a stranger)?
I know they're your friends and you want to trust them, but a lot of shit can happen in a year. You need to have a plan.
Equal billing can help with this.
Ended up with a different place. 780/month with water, heat and cooking gas all included. A/C already installed, we pay to power it. The place itself is pretty nice with underground parking available. Followed all of the advice found in various apartment threads around H/A and the three of us signed the lease today. Managed to convince the parents as well.
Meanwhile, I asked for an increase in hours at work and it turned out to be perfectly doable, raising my monthly income to somewhere in the $550 - 700 range. Jobless friend has an opportunity for a good one through his brother-in-law.
Things are looking a little better than they did when I started this thread. Thanks for all of your thoughts, guys.
The first month will be a little more than normal, just from having to get all the essentials. Soap, detergent and all that crap, plus what ever activation fees you may have for utilities, deposits, etc...
A big money saver is going to the grocery store. Buy food for YOU, label it or what ever you need to do. Eating out all the time is expensive, and adds up very quickly even though you think "oh this is just 3 bucks thats cheap!", you could get a loaf of bread and some deli meat for 6 bucks and it will last you all week.
Another good idea is splitting a CostCo. or SAMS membership between the three of you. Go there once a month and stock up on the bulk things that last a while (cereal, canned goods, condiments)
That's a very conservative estimate. It's $6.67 a day.
If you want to check the math, estimate the cost of breakfast + lunch + dinner if you made every single meal at home. Food adds up super quick before you even start to think about treats.
200 a month for a single person is perfectly reasonable if you're shopping smart. My wife and I spend around $250 a month for the two of us and make most of our meals at home. We spend another $40-50/month at restaurants.
Agreed, that's what my food allowances look like every month. I'd go $250 to account for eating out, but yeah, it should be a good bet, and yeah, I think $500 a month is doable.
You'd be surprised how easy it is not to save money at these places.
Be careful what you buy. Just because it's sold in a 10 gallon drum, doesn't mean it's cheaper that way. Bring a calculator and a flyer from the cheapest local grocery store if you need to, but often times I find that Costco's prices aren't really cheaper at all, especially when you factor in the membership dues.
The $2 hotdog/pop meal at the cafeteria though? Sweet.