Honestly I don't see "you don't need support characters!" to be a valid criticism of the game, because you should just play something else if you want to be a healer. The powersets that ARE in the game though, should be to some degree equally useful. If the game isn't going to make healers or controllers useful, those classes shouldn't be in the game.
There's also the problem that because of the freeform nature of the powers a new player has no idea what role the powers he is picking fulfils. In CoH for instance, if I want to play a control character I'm probably going to pick the class that says "controller"
and those classes aren't in the game as I said in earlier posts there are no classes there are support powers some frameworks have more then others If you want to take all support powers after your initial powers go right ahead just don't expect to solo like a powerarmor powerhouse build.
Later in my powerarmor build I plan on taking a group heal and bubble power that will provide support to a team in addition to either playing deffensive or offensive role will I provide as much support as a sorcery build made around support as his primary role? Of course not will he be able to dps as well I certainly hope not.
Again you have to drop the whole dps ,tank ,heal and having one character perform each function this game is not built around the wholly trinity of mmo
I'm also still wondering why a game where defeated enemies drop multiple power-ups needs support characters.
Because if you're fighting a single Master Villain or higher the fact that he'll drop you health after you beat him doesn't offer much comfort. Or, if you're an AoE based character, where again the bonuses will be given to you at the very end, rather than linearly through the fight.
Plus, the fuckers just never seem to drop health when you actually need it...
But what's the value of a true support character as opposed to adding another damage-oriented character with a small number of defensive/support powers?
In that case, why is this a bad thing? You're not limited to archetypes here, nothing is stopping you from taking damage powers and stepping up to the DPS plate. CoX largely did away with the need for healer classes and was better for it.
It's not a bad thing overall, but as has been pointed out, it's bad when there are specific frameworks that are described as "support".
It seems like CO is trying to have the "everyone can do anything" advantages of archetype-free character design yet still pander to the folks who want to play the "healer" or some other group support role.
Level 1-5 is where you get a feel for the game. You learn how to move, how to do quests, how to blow up scenery and participate in publice quests.
I was level 6 before I finished the tutorial.
On support characters - it always sucked in wow/lotro "lf1m healer" or "no raid tonight, only 6 healers"
I played around with a group heal, but ended up ditching it in favour of regen. If people take a few defensive powers, and one is a heal, then there is no NEED for support only chars.
But they changed it so that you can equip all 14 powers at once the only thing roles does now is change your 1 special power and I guess alters your stats to make you more effective in that role
Level 1-5 is where you get a feel for the game. You learn how to move, how to do quests, how to blow up scenery and participate in publice quests.
I was level 6 before I finished the tutorial.
On support characters - it always sucked in wow/lotro "lf1m healer" or "no raid tonight, only 6 healers"
I played around with a group heal, but ended up ditching it in favour of regen. If people take a few defensive powers, and one is a heal, then there is no NEED for support only chars.
This is a good thing!
Yeah, I've been level 6 coming out of the tutorial with all of my characters, too, but I made a point of doing a lot of the side quests. If you don't do the side quests, you'll be five coming out.
Honestly, the tutorial isn't that bad. I think I ran through it in half an hour with my power armor character.
But they changed it so that you can equip all 14 powers at once the only thing roles does now is change your 1 special power and I guess alters your stats to make you more effective in that role
Uh, wasn't there a mention of how a player could potentially have 42 different powers?
Ah, here it is
The decision has been taken to up the 7-power slot tray to 14 based on user feedback. Players do still have three different “rolesâ€, which allow them to swap in a new tray of 14 powers. Meaning players could have 42 powers on-hand at any given time.
I'm also still wondering why a game where defeated enemies drop multiple power-ups needs support characters.
Because if you're fighting a single Master Villain or higher the fact that he'll drop you health after you beat him doesn't offer much comfort. Or, if you're an AoE based character, where again the bonuses will be given to you at the very end, rather than linearly through the fight.
Plus, the fuckers just never seem to drop health when you actually need it...
The more powerful enemies drop power ups mid-fight, not just when they die.
The real problem of power ups is they all go to the melee members of the team. You went rifles instead of martial arts? Well, you're pretty fucked!
But they changed it so that you can equip all 14 powers at once the only thing roles does now is change your 1 special power and I guess alters your stats to make you more effective in that role
Uh, wasn't there a mention of how a player could potentially have 42 different powers?
Ah, here it is
The decision has been taken to up the 7-power slot tray to 14 based on user feedback. Players do still have three different “rolesâ€, which allow them to swap in a new tray of 14 powers. Meaning players could have 42 powers on-hand at any given time.
It seems to me, based on the complaints here, that the problem is not so much that a support-heavy framework should be able to kick as much as as the next guy (it should), but that said framework should be able to kick ass as well as the next guy during the early levels when you still have fuctionally similar (basic) abilities to every other person in the game...
Yeah, but as Kay said, Sorcery is a support set, and the first real damage attack he gets is silly good. Unlike with Gadgeteering at the moment, you're not kicked into the tutorial and abandoned with no real offensive capabilities.
Expect power armour to either get a big nerf or other sets to be brought up.
Personally, I hope the others get brought up.
Personally, I hope it's a mix of the two.
Right now, power armor is way too powerful. Like, I was in Canada, on the mission where you inject the animals with the serum to uncorrupt them... I just ran through it, gathered up about ten enemies that were my level until I found the ones I needed, hit them with the serum, while being attacked by all of those guys at the same time.
The real problem of power ups is they all go to the melee members of the team. You went rifles instead of martial arts? Well, you're pretty fucked!
I don't want to discuss extensively out of fear of breaking the nda, but I do know that there are certain melee powers that when used specifically draw aggro, so a more melee oriented character will be taking the brunt of the damage, hence a need for a power-up.
Now, all this talk about certain frameworks being more overpowered or better balanced is certainly true, and that's probably because they're in the middle of balancing them right now, so there's going to be certain discrepancies. I'm not that familiar with frameworks however, all of my characters have been customized and i've been having a blast.
My first character died all the time, so I scratched it and remade it, and it hasn't died once. And honestly I think the game doesn't really start til you get to millenium city anyway. That zone is huge and wonderful.
Oh, and someone was saying something about this game not having any instances or not having a lot of them, wait til you get to millennium city, random people will run up to you, literally just run up to you, and give you timed instances. I've been in so many random science labs, and warehouses, it actually gets kind of annoying how many instances you end up doing.
It seems to me, based on the complaints here, that the problem is not so much that a support-heavy framework should be able to kick as much as as the next guy (it should), but that said framework should be able to kick ass as well as the next guy during the early levels when you still have fuctionally similar (basic) abilities to every other person in the game...
Exactly. Since I haven't tested anything that far post-tutorial since the last big character wipe, I can't speak to how the powersets perform now that the difficulty has been tweaked. But yeah, being dropped into the tutorial with two sucktastic powers (including, in some cases, a 2nd power you literally cannot use for the first few levels) isn't an express train to funtown.
Lawndart on
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freakish lightbutterdick jonesand his heavenly asshole machineRegistered Userregular
The real problem of power ups is they all go to the melee members of the team. You went rifles instead of martial arts? Well, you're pretty fucked!
I don't want to discuss extensively out of fear of breaking the nda, but I do know that there are certain melee powers that when used specifically draw aggro, so a more melee oriented character will be taking the brunt of the damage, hence a need for a power-up.
Now, all this talk about certain frameworks being more overpowered or better balanced is certainly true, and that's probably because they're in the middle of balancing them right now, so there's going to be certain discrepancies. I'm not that familiar with frameworks however, all of my characters have been customized and i've been having a blast.
My first character died all the time, so I scratched it and remade it, and it hasn't died once. And honestly I think the game doesn't really start til you get to millenium city anyway. That zone is huge and wonderful.
Oh, and someone was saying something about this game not having any instances or not having a lot of them, wait til you get to millennium city, random people will run up to you, literally just run up to you, and give you timed instances. I've been in so many random science labs, and warehouses, it actually gets kind of annoying how many instances you end up doing.
To be fair other power frameworks also have aggro drawing moves.
To be fair other power frameworks also have aggro drawing moves.
Are there? I did not know that. Hmm.
I guess that's my biggest problem, my characters are a little too customized. I think only two of my powers are from the same framework. So I don't really know any one of them too much.
At this point, you can min/max crazily over-powered characters. So far I see no need of having more than 2-3 attack powers, particularly when you can specifically choose single target and AOE attacks that reduce all enemies to glowing orbs in seconds. Spend the rest loading up on passive and click defenses as well as some self-heals and have you a classic unkillable destroyer of worlds Tank-Mage.
It seems to me, based on the complaints here, that the problem is not so much that a support-heavy framework should be able to kick as much as as the next guy (it should), but that said framework should be able to kick ass as well as the next guy during the early levels when you still have fuctionally similar (basic) abilities to every other person in the game...
Exactly. Since I haven't tested anything that far post-tutorial since the last big character wipe, I can't speak to how the powersets perform now that the difficulty has been tweaked. But yeah, being dropped into the tutorial with two sucktastic powers (including, in some cases, a 2nd power you literally cannot use for the first few levels) isn't an express train to funtown.
I would imagine balance is ongoing even now... And if you just plain can't use a power that is clearly a bug that shouldn't let your opinion swing too far one way.
Akinos on
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freakish lightbutterdick jonesand his heavenly asshole machineRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Actually that's not a bug. I looked it up, someone filed a bug report on it and the reply was that that was the intended effect.
I'm not that familiar with frameworks however, all of my characters have been customized and i've been having a blast.
Frameworks just mean both your energy builder and damage dealer are from the same set, and that you get The Prodigy as your innate talent. You can start taking other sets' powers the moment you can buy powers.
Actually that's not a bug. I looked it up, someone filed a bug report on it and the reply was that that was the intended effect.
Can you show me where? I've seen reports of similar issues like that being fixed.
The in-game bug reporting tool lists Experimental Blaster (the Gadgeteering power that requires more endurance to use than players actually have for 2-3 levels) as "working as intended".
Testing times currently wednesday 12pm- 9PM PDT and Fridays 12pm -12am PDT the testing times are expected to be expanded soon.
To Clarify I am submitting a guild application I have 5 spots left open for this application you PM me here with your e-mail address and I submit the names and e-mail to Cryptic and we wait for the beta invites. Its less random then submitting a one person beta application (which I still recommend you do)
Posts
and make you take a highway to get there
The tutorial being mandatory is a big problem in trying out powers too but Than explained to me why they have to have it that way for now.
and those classes aren't in the game as I said in earlier posts there are no classes there are support powers some frameworks have more then others If you want to take all support powers after your initial powers go right ahead just don't expect to solo like a powerarmor powerhouse build.
Later in my powerarmor build I plan on taking a group heal and bubble power that will provide support to a team in addition to either playing deffensive or offensive role will I provide as much support as a sorcery build made around support as his primary role? Of course not will he be able to dps as well I certainly hope not.
Again you have to drop the whole dps ,tank ,heal and having one character perform each function this game is not built around the wholly trinity of mmo
The tutorial won't be mandatory by the time the game goes retail, and sometime before that in beta.
They have announced that in some future build, after you've done the tutorial once you can skip it with every future character.
Pretty sure that means they level you to 5 and dump you off in one of the crisis zones
It's not a bad thing overall, but as has been pointed out, it's bad when there are specific frameworks that are described as "support".
It seems like CO is trying to have the "everyone can do anything" advantages of archetype-free character design yet still pander to the folks who want to play the "healer" or some other group support role.
I was level 6 before I finished the tutorial.
On support characters - it always sucked in wow/lotro "lf1m healer" or "no raid tonight, only 6 healers"
I played around with a group heal, but ended up ditching it in favour of regen. If people take a few defensive powers, and one is a heal, then there is no NEED for support only chars.
This is a good thing!
I don't think you're supposed to be taking support powers until you reach like level 8. Certainly not in the tutorial.
changing roles only changes what powers you have "equipped", not which ones you actually possess.
Honestly, the tutorial isn't that bad. I think I ran through it in half an hour with my power armor character.
Personally, I hope the others get brought up.
Uh, wasn't there a mention of how a player could potentially have 42 different powers?
Ah, here it is
http://championsonlinedailynews.com/breaking-power-tray-doubled/
So are they just being misleading there?
The real problem of power ups is they all go to the melee members of the team. You went rifles instead of martial arts? Well, you're pretty fucked!
I don't know how the higher levels work, but now that I think about it it does seem unlikely that you can get 42 powers in 40 levels.
Right now, power armor is way too powerful. Like, I was in Canada, on the mission where you inject the animals with the serum to uncorrupt them... I just ran through it, gathered up about ten enemies that were my level until I found the ones I needed, hit them with the serum, while being attacked by all of those guys at the same time.
Didn't even knock me below half hp.
I don't want to discuss extensively out of fear of breaking the nda, but I do know that there are certain melee powers that when used specifically draw aggro, so a more melee oriented character will be taking the brunt of the damage, hence a need for a power-up.
Now, all this talk about certain frameworks being more overpowered or better balanced is certainly true, and that's probably because they're in the middle of balancing them right now, so there's going to be certain discrepancies. I'm not that familiar with frameworks however, all of my characters have been customized and i've been having a blast.
My first character died all the time, so I scratched it and remade it, and it hasn't died once. And honestly I think the game doesn't really start til you get to millenium city anyway. That zone is huge and wonderful.
Oh, and someone was saying something about this game not having any instances or not having a lot of them, wait til you get to millennium city, random people will run up to you, literally just run up to you, and give you timed instances. I've been in so many random science labs, and warehouses, it actually gets kind of annoying how many instances you end up doing.
Exactly. Since I haven't tested anything that far post-tutorial since the last big character wipe, I can't speak to how the powersets perform now that the difficulty has been tweaked. But yeah, being dropped into the tutorial with two sucktastic powers (including, in some cases, a 2nd power you literally cannot use for the first few levels) isn't an express train to funtown.
To be fair other power frameworks also have aggro drawing moves.
Are there? I did not know that. Hmm.
I guess that's my biggest problem, my characters are a little too customized. I think only two of my powers are from the same framework. So I don't really know any one of them too much.
I would imagine balance is ongoing even now... And if you just plain can't use a power that is clearly a bug that shouldn't let your opinion swing too far one way.
Can you show me where? I've seen reports of similar issues like that being fixed.
The in-game bug reporting tool lists Experimental Blaster (the Gadgeteering power that requires more endurance to use than players actually have for 2-3 levels) as "working as intended".
PM me with e-mail that you will use for beta invite.
Twitter - discolouie PSN - Loupa Steam - Loupa
[edit] Yes.
Was afraid so...
and it's Wednesday, not Tuesday...
To Clarify I am submitting a guild application I have 5 spots left open for this application you PM me here with your e-mail address and I submit the names and e-mail to Cryptic and we wait for the beta invites. Its less random then submitting a one person beta application (which I still recommend you do)