I think it's probably best to just say that this is in a parallel universe in the far distant future and it's a technology we have not yet discovered. it'd be difficult to explain to an ancient egyptian how computers, or airplanes, or cellphones work
it makes this stuff that does stuff in a stuffy kinda way
Because while we might struggle to and eventually invent lightsabers, deflector shields, and space fighters, and droids, little magical creatures that power Jedi really came out of left field.
The details of the wizardry are best left undefined so that fans can make endless theories. Honestly, you can't please everyone with the "canon" explanation, so you might as well leave it ambiguous and allow the people who care enough to forumulate their own ideas.
I find it kind of funny that the people who obsess over the workings of Star Wars technology are also the people who blast Lucas for Midichlorians.
How does that work?
I'm going to guess this is how it is, to make a parallel:
You can explain gravity and chemistry to me all you want, but when you start going against religion and saying that we came from monkeys and not a supreme being, you cross the line
the jedi, and the force, is basically seen as a religion, and when you take away the mysticism it loses some substance. Blasters aren't supposed to be mystical
I find it kind of funny that the people who obsess over the workings of Star Wars technology are also the people who blast Lucas for Midichlorians.
How does that work?
I've heard this point before, and I actually think it is an entirely reasonable feeling. And it has an entirely reasonable explanation.
The lines between fantasy and sci-fi aren't strict - they cross and overlap, and blur - but generally they have to do with the attitude and mindset used to explain the universe, the lens through which it is viewed. It's pretty simple: Arthur C. Clarke's world is driven by bits of matter knocking against each other, while Tolkien's runs on... well, er, norse myths, actually, but also magic and emotion and all that stuff.
When you watch Star Wars, you immediately understand that this world is explained through spiritualism and mysticism and myth and that practical junk like starships and blaster pistols are useful, but they neither drive the logic of the story nor explain how the universe works. And that while it's cute that fans feel the need to note down what company manufactured X-Wings or what all the buttons on the Falcon's dash do, it hardly alters the entire fiction. It's irrelevant.
But when you get told that all that myth and spirituality and epic struggle between good and evil is driven by a bunch of bacteria floating around inside the squishy organic frame of every Jedi, it's not just a little anticlimactic. It's downright bizarre and incoherent. It's akin to the second half of The Lord of the Rings briefly switching to a nuanced character piece in which Saruman narrates his mundane activities throughout a day in Isengard, like going to the toilet and masturbating on the beach - and then going back to Merry and Pippin battling orcs. It's genre whiplash.
I think it's best to act like there is no such thing as midichlorians and that mentioning them was a mistake especially since they don't exist in any world ever
That incoherence is the jarring thing. The religious stuff and the bacteria stuff would fit fine if the spiritual stuff weren't presented as not only the driving force behind the characters beliefs, but behind the entire plot.
Oh gosh why are we speaking of this
Basil on
0
Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Because we grew out of Dragon Ball Z when we were kids, and are not interested in being able to tell a Jedi's power level by scanning his blood.
Also, I'm intrigued by the end of that timeline video - that is, the now familiar hook for the next video, this time that Gnost-Dural will endeavour to explain more about the new Mandalore; and yet the preview for the next video says:
Frustrated by a series of Republic military victories, Imperial intelligence adopted new tactics to force an end to the war.
Was the new Mandalore manufactured by the Sith, perhaps?
I'd like to see them try.
The mandalorians haven't survived a few *thousand* years by accident...
I dont mind the explanation at all. I mean, it's no different to real religion where people maintain a spiritual facade even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a lifestyle choice.
I do understand why people might get twisted up over the midichlorians thing. What I don't get it what compels those same people to try to figure out the inner workings of the technology, considering that all of the explanations I've seen just push the magic back a step, couching it in equally obscure terminology. I mean, what the hell is "Tibanna gas", and how does knowing its role in the workings of a blaster contribute to your understanding of the world?
I do understand why people might get twisted up over the midichlorians thing. What I don't get it what compels those same people to try to figure out the inner workings of the technology, considering that all of the explanations I've seen just push the magic back a step, couching it in equally obscure terminology. I mean, what the hell is "Tibanna gas", and how does knowing its role in the workings of a blaster contribute to your understanding of the world?
Magic, presented a certain way, does not have to make sense to be satisfying. Like puppies and rainbows. Someone throws a fireball and mentions bat guano and everyone's happy.
Metal bits and cogs, presented as something other than magic, (nanotech, powered by hotblood, really possessed by a demon kitten from space, painted red) need a bit more fleshing out in the context they exist in.
I do understand why people might get twisted up over the midichlorians thing. What I don't get it what compels those same people to try to figure out the inner workings of the technology, considering that all of the explanations I've seen just push the magic back a step, couching it in equally obscure terminology. I mean, what the hell is "Tibanna gas", and how does knowing its role in the workings of a blaster contribute to your understanding of the world?
I'll take a stab at that.
While I think being a "continuity/mechanics nazi" can get tiresome, for me, if something has a semi-plausable, rational reason for working and history to it, it makes it more real, alive, and interesting.
Example:
ToS Klingons were cool, but basically just guys with Gengis Khan mustaches.
TnG Klingons, with their established culture, rituals, history to include Khaless the unforgettable are fucking awesome.
Boba Fett, in the movies, is badass.
Boba Fett, in the extended universe, as the tribal leader of millions of warriors who have incorporated a culture with functional, murderous psycopathy with strong family values and have been the galaxy's best killers for thousands of years, is fucking awesome.
Seeing an everage joe blow get nervous or keep their distance from Fett is fine, but knowing *why* why Mandalorian helmets scare the shit out of people, what they represent, makes it cooler.
I do understand why people might get twisted up over the midichlorians thing. What I don't get it what compels those same people to try to figure out the inner workings of the technology, considering that all of the explanations I've seen just push the magic back a step, couching it in equally obscure terminology. I mean, what the hell is "Tibanna gas", and how does knowing its role in the workings of a blaster contribute to your understanding of the world?
See, that's a more nuanced question that I do find more interesting. That very obsession with detail that stems from being a fan of Star Wars slowly erodes not the work itself, but the focus of the work. Where the original trilogy steadfastly ignored - or charmingly nonsense-worded its way through - anything even approaching mundane practicalities, its context is slowly shifted to become one where any of that terrible, terrible bullshit is actually important.
I know some people are happy to argue that it doesn't affect the original films, but that's simple-minded; it totally does. We can't help knowing what Tibanna gas is used for now, and whether we like it or not our brains will refuse to do anything but connect the dots. And the films are slowly becoming the poorer for it.
We can't help but get bogged down in the details when they just recycle the same plot over and over and over and over republic sith republic empire sith republic and over and over incest over and over and over everyone dies and over and over the empire over and over and over. Superweapons.
I guess I'm just not sympathetic to that viewpoint. Then again, I mostly don't give a crap about how things work in real life either.
Lets try this.
Imagine you're the first alien ambassador to earth from the Tau Ceti system. You're trying to absorb earth culture, and you notice that a lot of villians in earth media have germanic accents.
Yeah, they sound sorta creepy and harsh, but almost overdone and intentionally so. It doesn't make sense to you.
Well *then* you ask your buddy at the UN plaza over lunch (you've really taken a liking to this "chicken" which these Terrans oddly say everything tastes like) "Hey, why do German accents have such a constant negative connotation in your media?"
Well, then he explains World War 2, the Holocost, and, being an educated person, goes on about the thousand+ years of Teutonic/Prussian militarism that shaped that part of the world.
At that point, it makes more sense and sorta creeps you out even more.
That's quite different from either of the points in the original comparison. Finding out about culture is relevant to an understanding of events, even in fiction. Indeed, the purpose of a lot of fiction is to illuminate some culture, whether real or imagined.
So, you explain guns and now Jhonny Von Tentacles has an understanding of an entire industry and method of warfare and why they're different from its, and how the locals react to events based on that.
the whole thing about *unmentionable susbtance* that bugs me is that in the original trilogy it seemed like the force was this mystic power you could connect with if you were predisposed to it and really tried hard to focus your mind you could wield it with awesome power. It was like shaolin monks and their one-finger pushups and shit. you can do incredible things with some luck and a shitload of practice and meditation.
attributing it to some bug that lives in your body and whispers to you completely destroyed that notion. now its like an STD or genetic defect that lets you do stupid shit. also its quantifiable. in the EU luke had to dig around in people's minds to find some node that would react if you tapped it with the force to see if people are force sensitive. in the prequels its like taking a fucking diabeetus sample and testing. just no romance in that.
now for weapons and ships and shit, theyre machines and machines work a certain way that can be explained. technology may be beyond our understanding, but atleast it makes sense in a way you can understand. theres still some romance in it due to the shit they cant really explain. in a way, it's similar to modern physics. they can model all the mass in the universe back to nanoseconds before the 'beginning' but they can't explain where the singularity came from, so it's still sexy because theres some unknown.
After inserting religious themes into Star Wars, he would eventually come to identify strongly with the Eastern religious philosophies he studied and incorporated into his movies, which were a major inspiration for "the Force." Lucas eventually came to state that his religion was "Buddhist Methodist."
If you try to tell people that jesus never actually died but just seemed dead, I guarantee a lot of people will be upset with you. jedi and the force was about faith and mysticism, and talking about it with physical details reduces it to something less than supreme
That's quite different from either of the points in the original comparison. Finding out about culture is relevant to an understanding of events, even in fiction. Indeed, the purpose of a lot of fiction is to illuminate some culture, whether real or imagined.
What is culture, but the mechanics of societies?
Mechanics are mechanics; doesn't matter if it's why a blaster works, how a jedi uses a lightsaber without slicing his own arms off; trying to figure out the *why* of something, to have it make sense and understand it is a very human, and I think a good, trait.
Yeah, it can be taken to extremes...sometimes? People give some Star Trek fans shit for learning Klingon, but it reminds me of British intellectuals who would learn dead languages just for the mental exercies.
That. Mental exercise. I can't complain about that, if the world of reality TV. Why is the first question we learn and it's a good one.
Posts
Special effects smeshial effects.
jeez
or it's just tiny lightsabers
it's not rocket surgery
ok now explain repulsorfields
it makes this stuff that does stuff in a stuffy kinda way
i was referring to all references of futuristic technology, though, not just star wars
Lightsabers are awesome
How does that work?
Lightsabers = good
Midiclorians = bad
Simple.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I don't give to shits about how star wars works. The more mystery, the better.
I was also angry at the level of detail FEAR 2 goes into
but that's another story
Lucas created a setting in which many parts resonated well with a diverse audience over the span of 3 decades.
Some few parts did not resonate so well.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I'm going to guess this is how it is, to make a parallel:
You can explain gravity and chemistry to me all you want, but when you start going against religion and saying that we came from monkeys and not a supreme being, you cross the line
the jedi, and the force, is basically seen as a religion, and when you take away the mysticism it loses some substance. Blasters aren't supposed to be mystical
I've heard this point before, and I actually think it is an entirely reasonable feeling. And it has an entirely reasonable explanation.
The lines between fantasy and sci-fi aren't strict - they cross and overlap, and blur - but generally they have to do with the attitude and mindset used to explain the universe, the lens through which it is viewed. It's pretty simple: Arthur C. Clarke's world is driven by bits of matter knocking against each other, while Tolkien's runs on... well, er, norse myths, actually, but also magic and emotion and all that stuff.
When you watch Star Wars, you immediately understand that this world is explained through spiritualism and mysticism and myth and that practical junk like starships and blaster pistols are useful, but they neither drive the logic of the story nor explain how the universe works. And that while it's cute that fans feel the need to note down what company manufactured X-Wings or what all the buttons on the Falcon's dash do, it hardly alters the entire fiction. It's irrelevant.
But when you get told that all that myth and spirituality and epic struggle between good and evil is driven by a bunch of bacteria floating around inside the squishy organic frame of every Jedi, it's not just a little anticlimactic. It's downright bizarre and incoherent. It's akin to the second half of The Lord of the Rings briefly switching to a nuanced character piece in which Saruman narrates his mundane activities throughout a day in Isengard, like going to the toilet and masturbating on the beach - and then going back to Merry and Pippin battling orcs. It's genre whiplash.
And then the nerdrage.
Oh gosh why are we speaking of this
I'd like to see them try.
The mandalorians haven't survived a few *thousand* years by accident...
Margaret Thatcher
And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a lifestyle choice.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
technical versus mystical
that is all
Metal bits and cogs, presented as something other than magic, (nanotech, powered by hotblood, really possessed by a demon kitten from space, painted red) need a bit more fleshing out in the context they exist in.
I'll take a stab at that.
While I think being a "continuity/mechanics nazi" can get tiresome, for me, if something has a semi-plausable, rational reason for working and history to it, it makes it more real, alive, and interesting.
Example:
ToS Klingons were cool, but basically just guys with Gengis Khan mustaches.
TnG Klingons, with their established culture, rituals, history to include Khaless the unforgettable are fucking awesome.
Boba Fett, in the movies, is badass.
Boba Fett, in the extended universe, as the tribal leader of millions of warriors who have incorporated a culture with functional, murderous psycopathy with strong family values and have been the galaxy's best killers for thousands of years, is fucking awesome.
Seeing an everage joe blow get nervous or keep their distance from Fett is fine, but knowing *why* why Mandalorian helmets scare the shit out of people, what they represent, makes it cooler.
Margaret Thatcher
See, that's a more nuanced question that I do find more interesting. That very obsession with detail that stems from being a fan of Star Wars slowly erodes not the work itself, but the focus of the work. Where the original trilogy steadfastly ignored - or charmingly nonsense-worded its way through - anything even approaching mundane practicalities, its context is slowly shifted to become one where any of that terrible, terrible bullshit is actually important.
I know some people are happy to argue that it doesn't affect the original films, but that's simple-minded; it totally does. We can't help knowing what Tibanna gas is used for now, and whether we like it or not our brains will refuse to do anything but connect the dots. And the films are slowly becoming the poorer for it.
neeeeerdsss!
Lets try this.
Imagine you're the first alien ambassador to earth from the Tau Ceti system. You're trying to absorb earth culture, and you notice that a lot of villians in earth media have germanic accents.
Yeah, they sound sorta creepy and harsh, but almost overdone and intentionally so. It doesn't make sense to you.
Well *then* you ask your buddy at the UN plaza over lunch (you've really taken a liking to this "chicken" which these Terrans oddly say everything tastes like) "Hey, why do German accents have such a constant negative connotation in your media?"
Well, then he explains World War 2, the Holocost, and, being an educated person, goes on about the thousand+ years of Teutonic/Prussian militarism that shaped that part of the world.
At that point, it makes more sense and sorta creeps you out even more.
Margaret Thatcher
attributing it to some bug that lives in your body and whispers to you completely destroyed that notion. now its like an STD or genetic defect that lets you do stupid shit. also its quantifiable. in the EU luke had to dig around in people's minds to find some node that would react if you tapped it with the force to see if people are force sensitive. in the prequels its like taking a fucking diabeetus sample and testing. just no romance in that.
now for weapons and ships and shit, theyre machines and machines work a certain way that can be explained. technology may be beyond our understanding, but atleast it makes sense in a way you can understand. theres still some romance in it due to the shit they cant really explain. in a way, it's similar to modern physics. they can model all the mass in the universe back to nanoseconds before the 'beginning' but they can't explain where the singularity came from, so it's still sexy because theres some unknown.
When your political system in its entirety revolves around a sweaty old helmet, one has to wonder if they did.
Hey, remember when Revan swiped it and so dismantled Mandalorian society for a decade? That was a riot.
actually from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lucas
After inserting religious themes into Star Wars, he would eventually come to identify strongly with the Eastern religious philosophies he studied and incorporated into his movies, which were a major inspiration for "the Force." Lucas eventually came to state that his religion was "Buddhist Methodist."
If you try to tell people that jesus never actually died but just seemed dead, I guarantee a lot of people will be upset with you. jedi and the force was about faith and mysticism, and talking about it with physical details reduces it to something less than supreme
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
What is culture, but the mechanics of societies?
Mechanics are mechanics; doesn't matter if it's why a blaster works, how a jedi uses a lightsaber without slicing his own arms off; trying to figure out the *why* of something, to have it make sense and understand it is a very human, and I think a good, trait.
Yeah, it can be taken to extremes...sometimes? People give some Star Trek fans shit for learning Klingon, but it reminds me of British intellectuals who would learn dead languages just for the mental exercies.
That. Mental exercise. I can't complain about that, if the world of reality TV. Why is the first question we learn and it's a good one.
Margaret Thatcher