Lucky. I've been in there several times on different characters and I'll see a different makeup every time. I really dislike that fight especially in my alt pug 10 man. People get so pissy when you tell them to not stand in hellfire whirl wind etc. There is no aggro table, the healers are getting stomped as bad as you are, move your ass. We went through 4 - 5 people before we got a group that could make it through it on Sunday.
As a feral druid I DESPISE the heroic TOC encounter, because my CC chain does not work properly.
I reccomend other ferals try this, tank gear is uneccesary. Growl -> Growl -> Bash -> Cyclone -> Cyclone -> root -> root -> Growl
I did this to the DK last week, he barely hit anyone that wasn't me (a couple of people messed up my DR rotations ), and he was so angry at me that when it came time to kill him he never left my side. Like I actually tanked him /shrug.
In raiding related news, my guild still CAN NOT kill yogg 25. And they let me die on General. Last month they healed another druid who had 5k less HP then me, less avoidance, and doesn't use FF in her threat rotation.
TheCrumblyCracker on
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Faction Champs is the biggest fucking pain in the ass
Especially since the fight generally takes over 8 minutes and you can still get unlucky towards the end and see all your healers get gibbed by the ridiculous burst their dps have
For example I got combat ressed on my Lock only to die half a second later from a combination of multishot/fan of knives
Has anyone actually successfully pugged this on 25 man:?:
Beasteh on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
A guy on Malfurion US runs a weekly 25 man PUG of TOC and they clear the whole thing easily. Granted, he invites mostly the same group week in and out, based on a list of good people he's had in his runs over the past couple years, but it's still a pug. He's been doing these pugs back to pre 3.0 TK/Hyjal/BT.
Yeah, I don't consider people you know to be quality PuGs. At least not in the sense with the negative connotations. More like a pickup game of football during recess where you already know the good players.
One tactic we use for the champs fight. If you get the Holy Pally, and you have a DK park the DK on him. He can interrupt most of his heals, with only a few squeeking through. And before too long, the pally will just be healing himself before anyone else. We often get the pally and just leave him till near last because we can have one guy pretty much take him out of the fight. The poor sap is usually half dead by the time we turn our attention to him.
Used to lead those kinds of pugs as well on Proudmoore for SSC and TK. Did one Vashj kill pug on the server pre 3.0 then did weekly farm runs of SSC/TK including Vashj and Kael post 3.0
It's still a PuG in my opinion. He's been getting to know different people over the past however many years, and they get invites first, but he often still ends up filling at least half of it from Bur(LFG channel on Malfurion).
We got it too, it is a pain, but we burned down the tree first (no banish), while I did my best to lock down the shaman (prot warrior).
Then burned down the shaman while I went ton to stun out the/ interrupt the warlocks hell fire. Took many many tries to get it done, but we did in the end. This was 10 man btw.
The priest has a lot less health and likes to cast Penance, which is easy to interrupt. The shaman/tree just have so many instants that I can't even keep up with purging.
Heh, I got into a pug 10-man with this combo with no rogues or DKs or really any melee at all. We had one enhance shaman. Almost no interrupts or long term CCs.
We had a really bad group for this. Two hunters, an elemental shaman, an enhance shaman, a boomkin and a mage. The caster synergy was great for our damage but we had really bad CC. Our hunters couldn't freezing trap to save their lives. We only started making real progress when we just dropped tons and tons of slowing frost traps to kite the champs.
In the end, it fell to me as a fire mage to lock out the disc priest the entire match while the rest of the party killed everyone else. I figured out a cunning rotation of triple poly->dragon's breath->counter spell->blast wave->repeat. It was actually really fun figuring out how to do it.
In short this fight is fun but you die a great deal and is prone to significant bullshit.
The group you just described has a ton of interrupts and tons of great cc. Frost trap is amazing in there, you can kite the npc's so well with it. You also had 2 hexes, 2 earth bind totems as well as Root and cyclone.
The group you just described has a ton of interrupts and tons of great cc. Frost trap is amazing in there, you can kite the npc's so well with it. You also had 2 hexes, 2 earth bind totems as well as Root and cyclone.
It's a rather subtle change that changes the dynamic of the fight much more between normal and heroic. Shit like frost trap/earthbind is actually a bad thing in normal since most tanks can control their targets pretty well and slowing/stunning the melee just keeps them in the middle longer. Taunt being immune makes slows pretty goddamn important.
Really it felt like our interrupts were lacking. Neither hunter had silencing shot or scatter and such. No stuns to captialize on while trying to kill the first healer. We had earth shocks. Not sure how good the shamen were were at interrupting casts. Shoulda checked that on recount...
Frost trap was excellent, no doubt. Hex is fine but with a minute cool down it wasn't exceptional. For some reason our shamen could never get it to land. I expect they were hitting the grounding totem with it (even though I was attempting to ice lance that thing every time I could).
We ended up beating it pretty handily on our 10thish try (wherein we switched to the shaman as the first healer to die).
Obviously we didn't need that rogue/warrior/DK to isolate and kill a healer but it seemed to be our biggest weakness.
Does anyone have a definitive figure for the health of XTs heart in 10 man? We are thinking of trying XT hard this week but several figures are floating around like 1.8m, and 1.5m.
Does anyone have a definitive figure for the health of XTs heart in 10 man? We are thinking of trying XT hard this week but several figures are floating around like 1.8m, and 1.5m.
it's 1.8m in 10
EDIT: Though its effective health is 900k, on account of the whole double damage thing.
Really it felt like our interrupts were lacking. Neither hunter had silencing shot or scatter and such. No stuns to captialize on while trying to kill the first healer. We had earth shocks. Not sure how good the shamen were were at interrupting casts. Shoulda checked that on recount...
Frost trap was excellent, no doubt. Hex is fine but with a minute cool down it wasn't exceptional. For some reason our shamen could never get it to land. I expect they were hitting the grounding totem with it (even though I was attempting to ice lance that thing every time I could).
We ended up beating it pretty handily on our 10thish try (wherein we switched to the shaman as the first healer to die).
Obviously we didn't need that rogue/warrior/DK to isolate and kill a healer but it seemed to be our biggest weakness.
Just a heads up Earth shock is no longer an interrupt. It was changed to wind shear, so that is what you need to look for.
Really it felt like our interrupts were lacking. Neither hunter had silencing shot or scatter and such. No stuns to captialize on while trying to kill the first healer. We had earth shocks. Not sure how good the shamen were were at interrupting casts. Shoulda checked that on recount...
Frost trap was excellent, no doubt. Hex is fine but with a minute cool down it wasn't exceptional. For some reason our shamen could never get it to land. I expect they were hitting the grounding totem with it (even though I was attempting to ice lance that thing every time I could).
We ended up beating it pretty handily on our 10thish try (wherein we switched to the shaman as the first healer to die).
Obviously we didn't need that rogue/warrior/DK to isolate and kill a healer but it seemed to be our biggest weakness.
Just a heads up Earth shock is no longer an interrupt. It was changed to wind shock, so that is what you need to look for.
Wind Shear right?
And Earth Shock is most certainly an interrupt still for the champions. One used it on me when I was trying to heal myself from the mage's arcane barrages. Killed me 30 seconds into the fight. We still dropped the bastards though.
Tofystedeth on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Earth Shock is still an interrupt for shamans. Its just that Wind Shear is better for when you ONLY need the interrupt because AFAIK its not on the GCD.
Dhalphir on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
No, Earth Shock doesn't interrupt anymore. It instead lowers the target's attack speed by 10%.
Earth shock is not an interrupt for players. Maybe for NPCs. It does a 10% melee attack speed debuff. Wind shear is the only interrupt we have and it's on its own 6 second timer.
JAEF on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Hey I could have sworn the last time I played my shaman it was an interrupt.
and that was only a month ago.
In 3.2 wind shear was changed to an interrupteartshcoktenpwercentslow
JAEF on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
So am I correct in assuming that for XT, which can be considered a one-tank fight with two (or three) healers, has an effective 900k health heart where a total of six (or seven) dps have to do 30k raid dps for 30 seconds, that is to say 5k (or 4.3k) dps for each DPS (not including the tank)?
Senshi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
So am I correct in assuming that for XT, which can be considered a one-tank fight with two (or three) healers, has an effective 900k health heart where a total of six (or seven) dps have to do 30k raid dps for 30 seconds, that is to say 5k (or 4.3k) dps for each DPS (not including the tank)?
It's not as bad as it might sound. Just have dps blow cooldowns and you'll get it, though I don't recommend blowing heroism. Odds are if you can't get the heart down without heroism, you really shouldn't be trying hard mode (though this doesn't mean you absolutely won't succeed if you must).
So am I correct in assuming that for XT, which can be considered a one-tank fight with two (or three) healers, has an effective 900k health heart where a total of six (or seven) dps have to do 30k raid dps for 30 seconds, that is to say 5k (or 4.3k) dps for each DPS (not including the tank)?
It's not as bad as it might sound. Just have dps blow cooldowns and you'll get it, though I don't recommend blowing heroism. Odds are if you can't get the heart down without heroism, you really shouldn't be trying hard mode (though this doesn't mean you absolutely won't succeed if you must).
Wrong. The hard mode is easily doable if you use hero on the heart. It's basically required to use it on 25 man. On 10 man if you can engage hard mode with no hero, that's great, but if you need to use hero to get the heart down you can still easily do the hard mode since he has a long enrage timer and that is the only major dps check of the fight.
So am I correct in assuming that for XT, which can be considered a one-tank fight with two (or three) healers, has an effective 900k health heart where a total of six (or seven) dps have to do 30k raid dps for 30 seconds, that is to say 5k (or 4.3k) dps for each DPS (not including the tank)?
It's not as bad as it might sound. Just have dps blow cooldowns and you'll get it, though I don't recommend blowing heroism. Odds are if you can't get the heart down without heroism, you really shouldn't be trying hard mode (though this doesn't mean you absolutely won't succeed if you must).
Wrong. The hard mode is easily doable if you use hero on the heart. It's basically required to use it on 25 man. On 10 man if you can engage hard mode with no hero, that's great, but if you need to use hero to get the heart down you can still easily do the hard mode since he has a long enrage timer and that is the only major dps check of the fight.
If your dps can't swing it then odds are they aren't all that well geared. If they aren't well geared, odds are your healers and tanks aren't well geared. If they aren't well-geared, odds are hard tympanic tantrum is going to end you. Not necessarily, depending on how good your healers are.
You can use Hero on the heart and still get him down in 25man. I can totally see how it would make things more difficult on like, your healers, but we've never been able to get it without Hero.
God it's depressing that we still haven't gotten it without Hero. We have such shitty luck with weapon drops. Random loot is random blah blah blah I'm just whining.
Posts
I reccomend other ferals try this, tank gear is uneccesary. Growl -> Growl -> Bash -> Cyclone -> Cyclone -> root -> root -> Growl
I did this to the DK last week, he barely hit anyone that wasn't me (a couple of people messed up my DR rotations
In raiding related news, my guild still CAN NOT kill yogg 25. And they let me die on General. Last month they healed another druid who had 5k less HP then me, less avoidance, and doesn't use FF in her threat rotation.
Especially since the fight generally takes over 8 minutes and you can still get unlucky towards the end and see all your healers get gibbed by the ridiculous burst their dps have
For example I got combat ressed on my Lock only to die half a second later from a combination of multishot/fan of knives
Has anyone actually successfully pugged this on 25 man:?:
I just beacon myself so I can basically stand still and heal anyone without worrying about myself very much.
I blow my hammer and arcane torrent early on the first healer to help down him.
THen the rest of the fight just cleanse spamming for 10 mintues with the occasional Turn Evil.
it was a great way to gear up the alts of the top few raid guilds hordeside.
Fixed your question there for you.
One tactic we use for the champs fight. If you get the Holy Pally, and you have a DK park the DK on him. He can interrupt most of his heals, with only a few squeeking through. And before too long, the pally will just be healing himself before anyone else. We often get the pally and just leave him till near last because we can have one guy pretty much take him out of the fight. The poor sap is usually half dead by the time we turn our attention to him.
That shit is the worst.
Then burned down the shaman while I went ton to stun out the/ interrupt the warlocks hell fire. Took many many tries to get it done, but we did in the end. This was 10 man btw.
This is heroic, by the way.
Heh, I got into a pug 10-man with this combo with no rogues or DKs or really any melee at all. We had one enhance shaman. Almost no interrupts or long term CCs.
We had a really bad group for this. Two hunters, an elemental shaman, an enhance shaman, a boomkin and a mage. The caster synergy was great for our damage but we had really bad CC. Our hunters couldn't freezing trap to save their lives. We only started making real progress when we just dropped tons and tons of slowing frost traps to kite the champs.
In the end, it fell to me as a fire mage to lock out the disc priest the entire match while the rest of the party killed everyone else. I figured out a cunning rotation of triple poly->dragon's breath->counter spell->blast wave->repeat. It was actually really fun figuring out how to do it.
In short this fight is fun but you die a great deal and is prone to significant bullshit.
It's a rather subtle change that changes the dynamic of the fight much more between normal and heroic. Shit like frost trap/earthbind is actually a bad thing in normal since most tanks can control their targets pretty well and slowing/stunning the melee just keeps them in the middle longer. Taunt being immune makes slows pretty goddamn important.
We typically have a dk pull out the kill target and have everyone go to town on him out of the group.
Frost trap was excellent, no doubt. Hex is fine but with a minute cool down it wasn't exceptional. For some reason our shamen could never get it to land. I expect they were hitting the grounding totem with it (even though I was attempting to ice lance that thing every time I could).
We ended up beating it pretty handily on our 10thish try (wherein we switched to the shaman as the first healer to die).
Obviously we didn't need that rogue/warrior/DK to isolate and kill a healer but it seemed to be our biggest weakness.
it's 1.8m in 10
EDIT: Though its effective health is 900k, on account of the whole double damage thing.
Just a heads up Earth shock is no longer an interrupt. It was changed to wind shear, so that is what you need to look for.
Edit: Whoops!
And Earth Shock is most certainly an interrupt still for the champions. One used it on me when I was trying to heal myself from the mage's arcane barrages. Killed me 30 seconds into the fight. We still dropped the bastards though.
and that was only a month ago.
Wind Shear is the interrupt now, Earth Shock is the thunderclap/JotJ/IIT.
Origin: Viycktor
Wind shear is now your interrupt of choice.
It's not as bad as it might sound. Just have dps blow cooldowns and you'll get it, though I don't recommend blowing heroism. Odds are if you can't get the heart down without heroism, you really shouldn't be trying hard mode (though this doesn't mean you absolutely won't succeed if you must).
LoL: failboattootoot
Wrong. The hard mode is easily doable if you use hero on the heart. It's basically required to use it on 25 man. On 10 man if you can engage hard mode with no hero, that's great, but if you need to use hero to get the heart down you can still easily do the hard mode since he has a long enrage timer and that is the only major dps check of the fight.
If your dps can't swing it then odds are they aren't all that well geared. If they aren't well geared, odds are your healers and tanks aren't well geared. If they aren't well-geared, odds are hard tympanic tantrum is going to end you. Not necessarily, depending on how good your healers are.
LoL: failboattootoot
God it's depressing that we still haven't gotten it without Hero. We have such shitty luck with weapon drops. Random loot is random blah blah blah I'm just whining.