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Suda51's Flower, Sun and Rain
UncleSporky
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Registered User regular
Remember that Suda51 guy? The weird guy who did Killer7 and No More Heroes? The deconstructionist who gets meta as hell in the entire construction of his games? The games that are incredibly polarizing amongst the gaming public?
Before Killer7 and NMH, there was Flower, Sun and Rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzpi9VkUIY4
It was originally released on the Playstation 2 in Japan in 2001. The story puts you in the character of Sumio Mondo, a "searcher" (detective) called to the Flower, Sun and Rain hotel on mysterious Losspass Island. Without spoiling too much, some serious business goes down culminating in a large explosion...but then Sumio wakes up the day before. That's right, it's Groundhog Day (or Majora's Mask if you prefer). Sumio must interact with the bizarre staff and patrons of the hotel to solve various mysteries and uncover a terrorist plot.
You do this using your trusty suitcase Catherine, a device that lets you jack into all manner of things: sculptures, cameras, people. After discovering clues in the environment, you can enter in numbers to the thing you jacked which will help you progress, unlocking barriers and solving mysteries. All the real gameplay revolves around numbers, solutions which are not often obvious. You can take notes on an in-game notepad which is a nice touch. The rest of the game is walking around talking to people as in a game like Hotel Dusk.
The graphics were not amazing for its time, which is a good thing for the DS. Suda reportedly didn't want to sacrifice anything from the DS port, so in general we have the same amount of content with less geometry and drastically reduced textures. It's not a pretty game, I would go as far as to call it ugly much of the time, but it is functional.
The game has a whopping 56 at Metacritic with scores ranging from 40 to 80. To be honest I consider this a compliment to Suda more than anything else. I'm not saying this means it's great, obviously buyer beware, but I would expect nothing less from one of his games.
I bought it yesterday ($30) and I have to say I've enjoyed it so far. It opens up with this surreal video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juRhRiFqVo4
We start the game at "Edo Macalister's Hello!! Save Data" screen and then we're off.
After that we get a terrible first impression by watching a car drive across the worst rendered bridge I've ever seen. And then we get some exposition and see a man at an airport go to the bathroom. When we finally arrive at Losspass, we're dumped unceremoniously into the gameplay. Our tutorial consists of Sumio telling us to "play around with the buttons and figure it out."
As an example of how you solve puzzles, you meet a man who will escort you to the hotel. He asks for your birthday, meaning the birthday you entered into your DS, day followed by month. You jack into his eyeball and punch the numbers in which makes him trust you...only you can't go anywhere yet because the gate is closed.
At the gate you discover you can jack in to a statue of an upside down baby. It is up to you to realize that this means you need to enter your birthday backwards - so mine was 2604, which became 4062. Yeah.
So we finally get to the hotel, get some more exposition, and then have another surreal 4 minute video.
Oh yeah, we're also given a colorful guidebook to the island and hotel that is literally 50 pages long - and much of it will eventually be required reading over the course of your adventure. In fact the second puzzle of the game involving a camera requires digging through it to find the optimal shutter settings. And you're never quite sure that the numbers you're entering are right until you succeed.
It's also as self-referential as any of Suda's games. Characters talk about changes made in the DS version of the game, or reference their own strange looking bodies versus the more detailed portraits. There's also a lot of the signature pixel style, bold colors and lines as seen in No More Heroes.
Many other puzzles have been added to the DS version, and there are a number of unlockables including a Travis Touchdown outfit.
Overall I would compare it to a game like Hotel Dusk only much more visceral and weird and surreal. The puzzles pull no punches. It's a strange game and I can't wait to get back to it.
Before Killer7 and NMH, there was Flower, Sun and Rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzpi9VkUIY4
It was originally released on the Playstation 2 in Japan in 2001. The story puts you in the character of Sumio Mondo, a "searcher" (detective) called to the Flower, Sun and Rain hotel on mysterious Losspass Island. Without spoiling too much, some serious business goes down culminating in a large explosion...but then Sumio wakes up the day before. That's right, it's Groundhog Day (or Majora's Mask if you prefer). Sumio must interact with the bizarre staff and patrons of the hotel to solve various mysteries and uncover a terrorist plot.
You do this using your trusty suitcase Catherine, a device that lets you jack into all manner of things: sculptures, cameras, people. After discovering clues in the environment, you can enter in numbers to the thing you jacked which will help you progress, unlocking barriers and solving mysteries. All the real gameplay revolves around numbers, solutions which are not often obvious. You can take notes on an in-game notepad which is a nice touch. The rest of the game is walking around talking to people as in a game like Hotel Dusk.
The graphics were not amazing for its time, which is a good thing for the DS. Suda reportedly didn't want to sacrifice anything from the DS port, so in general we have the same amount of content with less geometry and drastically reduced textures. It's not a pretty game, I would go as far as to call it ugly much of the time, but it is functional.
The game has a whopping 56 at Metacritic with scores ranging from 40 to 80. To be honest I consider this a compliment to Suda more than anything else. I'm not saying this means it's great, obviously buyer beware, but I would expect nothing less from one of his games.
I bought it yesterday ($30) and I have to say I've enjoyed it so far. It opens up with this surreal video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juRhRiFqVo4
We start the game at "Edo Macalister's Hello!! Save Data" screen and then we're off.
After that we get a terrible first impression by watching a car drive across the worst rendered bridge I've ever seen. And then we get some exposition and see a man at an airport go to the bathroom. When we finally arrive at Losspass, we're dumped unceremoniously into the gameplay. Our tutorial consists of Sumio telling us to "play around with the buttons and figure it out."
As an example of how you solve puzzles, you meet a man who will escort you to the hotel. He asks for your birthday, meaning the birthday you entered into your DS, day followed by month. You jack into his eyeball and punch the numbers in which makes him trust you...only you can't go anywhere yet because the gate is closed.
At the gate you discover you can jack in to a statue of an upside down baby. It is up to you to realize that this means you need to enter your birthday backwards - so mine was 2604, which became 4062. Yeah.
So we finally get to the hotel, get some more exposition, and then have another surreal 4 minute video.
Oh yeah, we're also given a colorful guidebook to the island and hotel that is literally 50 pages long - and much of it will eventually be required reading over the course of your adventure. In fact the second puzzle of the game involving a camera requires digging through it to find the optimal shutter settings. And you're never quite sure that the numbers you're entering are right until you succeed.
It's also as self-referential as any of Suda's games. Characters talk about changes made in the DS version of the game, or reference their own strange looking bodies versus the more detailed portraits. There's also a lot of the signature pixel style, bold colors and lines as seen in No More Heroes.
Many other puzzles have been added to the DS version, and there are a number of unlockables including a Travis Touchdown outfit.
Overall I would compare it to a game like Hotel Dusk only much more visceral and weird and surreal. The puzzles pull no punches. It's a strange game and I can't wait to get back to it.
Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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It's in-game. In the background is a washed out picture of what the guidebook actually looks like with stylized pictures, logos and colors, and the foreground is just text that you scroll up and down.
It doesn't feel too terrible to flip through it in-game. They really have to do it that way since real books like that can be lost or the game could be sold used by itself.
None of that, just entering in numbers and exploring an island talking to people. But yes, it has some ridiculously obscure ways you must arrive at the correct numbers.
As another puzzle example, you are given data like this:
FIRST WORD = 24
SECOND WORD = ?
The font is very angular, every letter is squared off. Turns out the solution is to add up all the right angles in the letters. (There are some subtle hints, you're not just on your own all the time.)
Weird fucking game, but it's fun. I'm hoping this is a success enough so that they'll port that Silver Case game.
Uhh, sorry.
Yes, usually because they're 'arty' and the reviewer doesn't 'get it'.
Also, I watched some video trailer about this game on Amazon, and it was a lot of "huh."
Yeah, I forget to mention the music, it's great stuff. Jazzy, less bleak than No More Heroes but similarly interesting and not video-gamey.
No More Heroes was reviewed pretty well by a couple different sources.
Take away the "art" and meta humor and you'll wind up with:
1) Boring, Repetitive Minigames
2) Crappy Overworld (It's not supposed to be like GTA, but apparently it wasn't supposed to be good either)
3) Bad to mediocre stages
4) Fun Boss Fights
From a gameplay perspective, it just wasn't that good. There was enough artificial gameplay in the form of Minigames, jobs and overworld to annoy me. The stages weren't particularly interesting and the regular enemies were just boring.
The boss fights were fun. The boss characters were actually interesting. Too bad the rest sucked so horribly bad.
MadWorld's better, though.
As for Suda games in general, I think there's a lot to be looked at in the fact their logo says "Punk's Not Dead." Punk rock music is generally technically bad in a number of ways, but makes up for it by being awesome. Same with these games. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
The puzzles so far haven't been too tough aside from a few of the optional ones. If you talk to the guy in front of the baby statues, he basically says. "Your birthday... upside down babies... reverse?" So I put it in backwards on the first try and got it.
Also UncleSporky, you said something about how the music isn't very video game-y, and that's probably because all of the songs are classical tunes, but remixed. For example, the lobby music is "Bolero", and I know for a fact I've heard the music for the Tab Brothers somewhere before, but I don't know the name.
Edit: Solved the puzzle today. Should anyone else get stuck on this, something to note is that the game SHOULD say "Head northeast until a dead end", as opposed to just head northeast. That threw me off, as well as my amazing inability to differentiate between east and west.
I'm a huge Grasshopper fanboy, and while this is easily the least enjoyable of their games that I've played it does have a certain charm to it, primarily due to three things:
1.) The idiosyncratic characters. They're all lunatics and assholes.
2.) Suda's crazed, babbling dialog
3.) The fact that the storyline really is very compelling. I guess it's a case of the game denying you even the most fundamental information on what the hell you're doing, but I find myself starved to see what comes next. In that respect it reminds me most of Killer7. The gameplay isn't really that great; in fact it's downright dull in a lot of places. But I sort of like Grasshopper's philosophy that sometimes it's fun to really work for your ending.
There's also the fact that the game is actually really funny. It outright insults the player for putting up with all its tedium, especially in the
The decision to remix classical music was a strange but good idea (I doubt they'd have to pay any licensing fees). The roof music is my favorite.
It's neat that Edo makes a cameo appearance in Killer 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sAlo3gogpY
I was actually stuck at the same part you were for a while. It's not good to put down a game for a while then come back with no context or clues, especially when you're stuck in the room.
Some of the problems were easy enough to solve, some were difficult but incredibly satisfying. I haven't done any maths aside from basic counting and what's employed in day-to-day life since I was in year 10 at school, (14 years ago) so I was amazed that I could actually come up with the solutions to a lot of them. The remainder (not too many) were so fucking rediculous I had no idea how the problem and solution were related in any way. Had to Gamefaqs for a couple of answers but really only for the added DS ones.
The music is all "remixed" classical music. They're quite funny and cool. Well done. Again something that only me and about 200 other people would really appreciate (I am a classical musician by profession.) Real music should be used in games a lot more, or maybe not, I dunno. It was good in this and Little King's Story. Especially when they incorporate the less mainstream stuff. Schubert in the field, awesome.
Suda is a total weirdo and for that reason I will always give his games a chance. Some remain favourites (Killer7 is a truly great game) and some are ultimately disappointing (No More Heroes's retarded mashed up plot insulted my intelligence and the gameplay was ultimately lacking.) Sometimes he gets carried away and lets bizarreness cover for a lack of substance. I felt that Killer7 struck a great balance. In that regard I felt this game had enough substance to be worth at least a playthrough.
So, don't go into it expecting a great game, because it isn't one but it's an interesting experience that you really won't find anywhere else. Whether it's a worthwhile one is entirely up to the individual. I found it so.
I particularly dug their rendition of "Rhapsody in Blue." Funky.
Thank you so much for the name. As sad as it is, I know a lot of classical songs from old looney tunes and such, but I almost never know the names. It bugs the crap out of me when I can recognize the songs, but I don't know the names. Rhapsody in Blue was another one I knew, but I couldn't get the name. Damn you feel classy after playing FSR. That song? Heh, I know it. I listen to classical music, no big. 8-)
Holy shit the game got freakyweird though. I'm after the "big story" part that you would probably know when you get to it.
Also am I crazy, or is the star logo used in NMH? I'm almost positive I've seen it in one of Grasshopper's other games.
Whoa whoa whoa.
Since when is music composed specifically for a game not "real music"?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
You guys both need to chill out. It's obvious that he just means he wants to hear more music that is typically external to video games being used inside video games. Music from another medium, whether stylistically or actual remixes as in this game.
By the way, I never got far in this game. :P Not from getting stuck, just from being extremely busy and having other things to play as well. But I enjoyed it and am glad to be reminded to go back to it.
Yeah obviously referring to certain music as "real music" he just meant "outside music", right?
No, he needs to get his head out of his ass.
This game has pretty awesome atmosphere, but uh... that's about it.
There is nothing disparaging video game music in what he wrote. There's an implied real [world] music, not real [because-game-music-is-somehow-not-real] music.
When I think video game music I do not think Beethoven or Mozart. When I think classical music I do not think Koji Kondo. They are commonly consigned to different categories which is exactly what was conveyed. By that I do not mean that one or the other isn't really music, just that there is a visible split in music made for general consumption (radio etc.) and music made for games, and he wants to hear the general music inserted into games more often.
Essentially you should take your own advice and not get so pent up over simple words.
Edited a little for clarity.
It baffles me why some people don't consider pieces like this to be "real music".
Video game music can sound classical and include classical themes. Classical music can be featured in video games. Games can also include pop, rock, whatever.
But typically game music is its own original composition, and Dave wants to hear more covers of music external to video games. I see nothing wrong with that.
No, that's not what seems to be implied at all, especially when a sentence later he claims that he'll be one of the few who would really appreciate classical music in a video game.
He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would look down at game music - he would look down at all kinds of music he doesn't like.
But that has nothing to do with this thread. It was one sentence. Chill out indeed.
But I was being a bit of a bitch on purpose.
Also why is Step the key to carrying on everything? Is it because he was never really on the island or something? The one that you see was a bomb, correct? So the real one is out in the real world? Jesus, I seriously need a plot analysis for this game. I get lost when I try to go beyond the idea of breeding hyenas in the hopes of one having a silver eye to bestow the power of god.
I guess I also need to run up and down the beach because there's a bunch of unlockables I still need to get from the step counter. I also have to go back and get the rest of the lost and found items. I'm cheating on some of those though, some are just way too hard.