Starcraft 2 will be a P2P game. What does that mean for LANs? It means you have to log onto battle.net. Then you start a game. And suddenly, all the information is being sent between the clients, the shortest way possible, which is LAN. This means the speed of your internet connection is irrelevant.
This has been said many times:
1. There are situations in which two or more people with legit copies of SC2 will want to play together and there is not an available internet connection, be it on a road trip, at a house without a connection, or simply because service went out. We have now established harm to the consumer.
2. People who intended to pirate the game and want to LAN will not be able to do so via B.net, but there will be a crack. This measure will not reduce piracy and indeed may increase it for reasons outlined in 1.
3. If they intend to require remote authentication, Blizzard is alienating some customers and failing to achieve the assumed goal of curbing piracy.
The silliness of the measure is equal to X + Y, where X is the units of silliness that are present as a necessity in order to consider DRM and Y is equal to the restrictiveness of the authentication requirements (every game, every ten minutes, every week, etc.)
Clearly, they decided this after about 10 seconds of thought, and never put any more into it. I mean, blizzard is known for making horrible choices when it comes to making money. You've obviously put more thought, better researched all avenues, and have the better solution.
Too bad blizzard won't listen to reason, those madmen.
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
I hope custom hotkeys make it in, but I have heard they are setting them up better this time--trying to cram them all on the left side of the keyboard and whatnot. Probes, for instance, are on E now.
Last post on the page because no one likes to be overlooked.
I wonder if they have kept the larva dying if you cancel a unit.
I really want a 4x Starcraft game where I can genetically splice the zerg and make my own innovations for the Terran. Like the Terra-jetfire-optimaltron
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
The latter in particular enrages me, because I know they aren't going to use grid-keys, which is the set-up I prefer for any RTS. Watching replays with friends is also tons more fun than watching it alone, really a pretty important feature considering how popular it was in SC1.
I believe, from what I remember, there wont be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping in the initial beta phase, but will either be implemented in the official release, or will be implemented in a patch after the official release
So far they are saying it might be implemented in a later patch. Which means you'll have to relearn hotkeys whenever and if they release it, that's kind of going to be hard if you've been playing SC2 beforehand. It's simply mind boggling why such a basic feature, seemingly easy to implement, is being left out for a future patch.
The only thing I can come up with is that they are holding these features back so they can later monetize them, although I hesitate to speculate.
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
The latter in particular enrages me, because I know they aren't going to use grid-keys, which is the set-up I prefer for any RTS. Watching replays with friends is also tons more fun than watching it alone, really a pretty important feature considering how popular it was in SC1.
I believe, from what I remember, there wont be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping in the initial beta phase, but will either be implemented in the official release, or will be implemented in a patch after the official release
So far they are saying it might be implemented in a later patch. Which means you'll have to relearn hotkeys whenever and if they release it, that's kind of going to be hard if you've been playing SC2 beforehand. It's simply mind boggling why such a basic feature, seemingly easy to implement, is being left out for a future patch.
The only thing I can come up with is that they are holding these features back so they can later monetize them, although I hesitate to speculate.
Forced limitations in beta testing is not uncommon. They want people to have to play a different way to test features they actually want to perfect.
For example, they've already spoken about how they are implementing a bunch of newbie friendly mechanics, like the teaching modes and whatnot, as well as some major overhauls to Bnet matchmaking.
If everyone who was playing the beta was hotkeying it up and microing like a motherfucker, perhaps a major new UI feature or something they actually wanted to test would be ignored and overlooked. Same with replays.
anyone who thinks blizzard will make you pay for a patch clearly has never ever played a blizzard game
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
anyone who thinks blizzard will make you pay for a patch clearly has never ever played a blizzard game
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
Assuming your joking, but blizzard has still been good with patching, having patched both startcraft and Diablo 2 about once a year for the last few years (and assumingly more often right after launch).
Sparvy on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
The latter in particular enrages me, because I know they aren't going to use grid-keys, which is the set-up I prefer for any RTS. Watching replays with friends is also tons more fun than watching it alone, really a pretty important feature considering how popular it was in SC1.
You better source that shit with links because the last thing we need is rumors.
anyone who thinks blizzard will make you pay for a patch clearly has never ever played a blizzard game
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
Assuming your joking, but blizzard has still been good with patching, having patched both startcraft and Diablo 2 about once a year for the last few years (and assumingly more often right after launch).
I've pleayed WoW for quite some time and NEVER did I think they were milking it. The monthly fee is minimal, because you really don't play any other game when you play WoW, making it equal to one game every 4 months, with this one game keeping you entertained for four months. You'll be hard pressed to find a single game that gives you 4 months of enjoyment.
And free content patches are what makes wow. They release an expansion with 1 finished dungeon tier, then release the next two tiers with no additional charge.
As many have already said, taking out LAN support only serves to harm the people who pay good money for the game. There's no good reason for not implementing it. Piracy prevention doesn't work as a reason because pirates, as they always do, will find a way around it.
I need only reference Oblivion and other anti-piracy free games to reinforce my point. Anti-piracy measures only punish the paying customer, because pirates will ALWAYS find a way.
BUT WE MUST DISCUSS AND WASTE FIVE MORE PAGES OF DISCUSSION ABOUT LAN
Found out what that new unit is called that uses the Arbiter's stasis field. The Nullifier. Can't really critique the name but I'll be damn if I could go for something less like an observer. Or give me a huge magnification on the circuitry of it's globe thing. Like how the terran have the unmanned vehicle, but they portray the man that's actually controlling it, which includes face palms and lolnoob body language.
I hope they still have the dark shadows/I'm in a submarine type of look, like the Corsair or Artanis portrait, or Carrier as well.
Still feeling a Westwoody vibe with the new units. Some are really awesome, but I'm still skeptical about most of the designs with the Protoss units. I hope I get into beta or someone logs the evolution of the gfxzors
You're suprised we're talking about what is described in the title?!
I'm only buying it when the Zerg box comes out, but I don't think a little outrage over no LAN when the original game came out when LAN was the better option is unreasonable
You're suprised we're talking about what is described in the title?!
I'm only buying it when the Zerg box comes out, but I don't think a little outrage over no LAN when the original game came out when LAN was the better option is unreasonable
Isn't it so that they're addons? Expansions? So you have to buy the previous ones first.
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
The latter in particular enrages me, because I know they aren't going to use grid-keys, which is the set-up I prefer for any RTS. Watching replays with friends is also tons more fun than watching it alone, really a pretty important feature considering how popular it was in SC1.
How is it trolling to point out that comparing complaints about the lack of LAN to having to pay for the game are utterly, gob-smackingly childish and stupid?
Anyways I hope Blizzard feels the heat and puts LAN in for SC2, I've had many a LAN party for SC and would hate to see us not migrating forward because we don't have a super expensive internet connection at the apartment we're playing in.
Am I the only one here who thinks theres nothing wrong with them not putting in LAN play? When was the last time you did anything over a LAN connection anyway? Unless your 16 and having LAN parties with your bro's every other weekend, then I can't see why any average person would need LAN play.
Taking out LAN only means that when people pirate the game (and they will) they wont be able to use things like Hamachi to play there Pirated game online via the LAN settings.
I'm sure some of you are thinking "But what about tournament play!?" We'll they have no issue making custom setups for there tournament games. Just look at WoW for instance. They have the ability to spectate built right in to the Tournament version of the WoW Arena. I wouldn't put it past them to have a copy of the game they use for tournaments that has LAN play on it.
anyone who thinks blizzard will make you pay for a patch clearly has never ever played a blizzard game
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
A monthly fee is not what I would call free.
The free content is part of their justification of the fee itself. Without it, like a bunch of other MMOs, the userbase would atrophy instead of remaining quite consistent growth over four years.
anyone who thinks blizzard will make you pay for a patch clearly has never ever played a blizzard game
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
A monthly fee is not what I would call free.
The free content is part of their justification of the fee itself. Without it, like a bunch of other MMOs, the userbase would atrophy instead of remaining quite consistent growth over four years.
You could also make an argument that a monthly fee is mainly there for server support, balance patching, etc, and not for new content.
Of course, its all semantics, as blizzard does things and we pay them for it, one way or another.
How is it trolling to point out that comparing complaints about the lack of LAN to having to pay for the game are utterly, gob-smackingly childish and stupid?
Anyways I hope Blizzard feels the heat and puts LAN in for SC2, I've had many a LAN party for SC and would hate to see us not migrating forward because we don't have a super expensive internet connection at the apartment we're playing in.
Oh he's pretty retarded, but you could've put that second part in your post so it wasnt just "retarded man ITT"
I am in the conversation mainly because I used to lan, alot of my buddies used to lan, and it was this game they would lan. I am also a big fan of blizzard and their games, so it stands to reason that this will become policy on future titles.
The arguments thus far is:
Its not fair to the consumer (which I reacted to, what about a product really is fair to the consumer except the entertainment they derive. you cant measure it in the entertainment they somehow deny you)
A game cannot support lan play if it doesn't have the feature (which isnt true, and I proved otherwise a few pages ago)
The fact of the matter is they are mad that there is no official lan support. How far into the warcraft 3 beta did warez groups add lan supportto the beta? It wasnt long before you saw private Bnet servers (which could be hosted on a local lan), that lan's could play on.
So worst comes to worst, history has shown that a small bit of people that would actually want lan play will get it, an extra feature for free, with a little work, that most of people probably dont need or want.
Its a nice feature, but lets get honest noone is buying this game JUST for lan gameplay, its either single player or multiplayer. Is blizzard going to loose customers because its gone? No, warez groups will put it in. Will the Lan feature get more sales? No. So why develop it? Keep the customers happy? It doesn't add up to bother making it and putting it in.
edit: because I super fucked up the last sentence. And I cant spell.
Man I dont even like starcraft but I like getting into this argument.
Charging money for this game is harm to the consumer, I dont think you can call this a valid argument for no lan support.
Congratulations, you are now officially the most retarded person ITT.
Blizzard can charge whatever they want for the game. That's their right. However forcing restrictions onto consumers in order to make more money is pointless and borderline unethical. It's just bad business. They are using there legal position to try and force people to use their products a certain way. Then when legitimate users want to try and hack in LAN play, they can cry that its a DMCA violation.
The whole point of this restriction is not to stop piracy. Anybody can see that. The purpose is to push people into buying add-ons and upgrades so they can continue to play with their buddies on Battle Net. Of course you wont need to have the upgrades to play but you wont be following your buddies into an online game that uses them. They have been using the same strategy on Playstation for a while now, adding the multiplayer maps and stuff as downloadable addons you buy. When you try to join a game, it asks "would you like to buy this?"
The whole point of this restriction is not to stop piracy. Anybody can see that. The purpose is to push people into buying add-ons and upgrades so they can continue to play with their buddies on Battle Net. Of course you wont need to have the upgrades to play but you wont be following your buddies into an online game that uses them. They have been using the same strategy on Playstation for a while now, adding the multiplayer maps and stuff as downloadable addons you buy. When you try to join a game, it asks "would you like to buy this?"
Do you have any proof that blizzard removed lan so they can force you to buy add-ons for b.net? cuz that pretty much goes against everything blizzard has done to date.
Clearly, blizzard wont be doing anything like patching and actively working to stop private servers, etc. They'll realize their folly, and simply give up, the pirates have won!
I really didn't think Blizzard made any horrible decisions up until this point, but now supposedly there won't be multiplayer replay functionality or custom hotkey mapping support!
The latter in particular enrages me, because I know they aren't going to use grid-keys, which is the set-up I prefer for any RTS. Watching replays with friends is also tons more fun than watching it alone, really a pretty important feature considering how popular it was in SC1.
Citation needed.
I'm just reading stuff off of teamliquid.
For the hotkeys, the OP of the topic quoted Sigaty but didn't the link source and I can't find it on Google. So it might just be a rumor; I doubt it though considering they never thought custom hotkeys were important enough to add to their previous RTS - WC3.
As for online replays: around the 8 min mark.
Again, plenty of people still use LAN. I played WarCraft III LAN using an ad-hoc wifi connection with a friend on our laptops earlier today because we didn't have a stable non-laggy network connection available.
Clearly, blizzard wont be doing anything like patching and actively working to stop private servers, etc. They'll realize their folly, and simply give up, the pirates have won!
The whole point of this restriction is not to stop piracy. Anybody can see that. The purpose is to push people into buying add-ons and upgrades so they can continue to play with their buddies on Battle Net. Of course you wont need to have the upgrades to play but you wont be following your buddies into an online game that uses them. They have been using the same strategy on Playstation for a while now, adding the multiplayer maps and stuff as downloadable addons you buy. When you try to join a game, it asks "would you like to buy this?"
Do you have any proof that blizzard removed lan so they can force you to buy add-ons for b.net? cuz that pretty much goes against everything blizzard has done to date.
umm, Brood War? Frozen Throne? aren't those add-ons you need to purchase? And I didn't say they would force anything. If you bothered read my post you would see that I explicitly stated that you would not need the upgrades... It's just going to be strongly encouraged... just like every other game they have ever made.
Clearly, blizzard wont be doing anything like patching and actively working to stop private servers, etc. They'll realize their folly, and simply give up, the pirates have won!
And here I thought patching was done to stop cheating, an entirely different issue.
If the game doesn't support LAN play then I would have to imagine it would take a lot of coding and a lot of effort to put it in the game. You can't just say "well they did it in the WC3 beta!" because WC3 was programed with LAN in mind, they probably did nothing more then add the menu item back in to the game. But if blizzard intentionally removes all the code required to play via a lan connection from SC2, then your going to have one hell of a time putting it back in, and making it not suck dick. Not to mention, I'm sure they probably rebuilt battle.net from the ground up for SC2, meaning its going to be a long time before people start setting up custom BNet servers (if at all).
For the hotkeys, the OP of the topic quoted Sigaty but didn't the link source and I can't find it on Google. So it might just be a rumor; I doubt it though considering they never thought custom hotkeys were important enough to add to their previous RTS - WC3.
Wc3 has custom hotkeys. You can also customize button positions and tooltips.
The whole point of this restriction is not to stop piracy. Anybody can see that. The purpose is to push people into buying add-ons and upgrades so they can continue to play with their buddies on Battle Net. Of course you wont need to have the upgrades to play but you wont be following your buddies into an online game that uses them. They have been using the same strategy on Playstation for a while now, adding the multiplayer maps and stuff as downloadable addons you buy. When you try to join a game, it asks "would you like to buy this?"
Do you have any proof that blizzard removed lan so they can force you to buy add-ons for b.net? cuz that pretty much goes against everything blizzard has done to date.
umm, Brood War? Frozen Throne? aren't those add-ons you need to purchase? And I didn't say they would force anything. If you bothered read my post you would see that I explicitly stated that you would not need the upgrades... It's just going to be strongly encouraged... just like every other game they have ever made.
So apparently expansion packs that add tons of new content at a lower price then a full game are now considered 'add-ons'?
Also, when you talk about Playstation games, you do realize that is completely irrelevant because you are talking about completely different developers, right?
For the hotkeys, the OP of the topic quoted Sigaty but didn't the link source and I can't find it on Google. So it might just be a rumor; I doubt it though considering they never thought custom hotkeys were important enough to add to their previous RTS - WC3.
Wc3 has custom hotkeys. You can also customize button positions and tooltips.
Yeah, the WC3 install includes a CustomKeyInfo.txt file where you set them and a CustomKeysSample.txt file that shows you how to do it. It can be enabled or disabled in the options in the game.
Posts
Clearly, they decided this after about 10 seconds of thought, and never put any more into it. I mean, blizzard is known for making horrible choices when it comes to making money. You've obviously put more thought, better researched all avenues, and have the better solution.
Too bad blizzard won't listen to reason, those madmen.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
I wonder if they have kept the larva dying if you cancel a unit.
I really want a 4x Starcraft game where I can genetically splice the zerg and make my own innovations for the Terran. Like the Terra-jetfire-optimaltron
So far they are saying it might be implemented in a later patch. Which means you'll have to relearn hotkeys whenever and if they release it, that's kind of going to be hard if you've been playing SC2 beforehand. It's simply mind boggling why such a basic feature, seemingly easy to implement, is being left out for a future patch.
The only thing I can come up with is that they are holding these features back so they can later monetize them, although I hesitate to speculate.
Custom key mappings $US 10
Zerg $US 30
Protoss $US 30
Turning into the worlds most expensive game.
Forced limitations in beta testing is not uncommon. They want people to have to play a different way to test features they actually want to perfect.
For example, they've already spoken about how they are implementing a bunch of newbie friendly mechanics, like the teaching modes and whatnot, as well as some major overhauls to Bnet matchmaking.
If everyone who was playing the beta was hotkeying it up and microing like a motherfucker, perhaps a major new UI feature or something they actually wanted to test would be ignored and overlooked. Same with replays.
Beta does not mean demo.
edit: also above, developers want you to actually help them test things that need to be tested
even their cash cow, wow, get's regular, HUGE updates, and patches for free :P
Assuming your joking, but blizzard has still been good with patching, having patched both startcraft and Diablo 2 about once a year for the last few years (and assumingly more often right after launch).
You better source that shit with links because the last thing we need is rumors.
I've pleayed WoW for quite some time and NEVER did I think they were milking it. The monthly fee is minimal, because you really don't play any other game when you play WoW, making it equal to one game every 4 months, with this one game keeping you entertained for four months. You'll be hard pressed to find a single game that gives you 4 months of enjoyment.
And free content patches are what makes wow. They release an expansion with 1 finished dungeon tier, then release the next two tiers with no additional charge.
I need only reference Oblivion and other anti-piracy free games to reinforce my point. Anti-piracy measures only punish the paying customer, because pirates will ALWAYS find a way.
Found out what that new unit is called that uses the Arbiter's stasis field. The Nullifier. Can't really critique the name but I'll be damn if I could go for something less like an observer. Or give me a huge magnification on the circuitry of it's globe thing. Like how the terran have the unmanned vehicle, but they portray the man that's actually controlling it, which includes face palms and lolnoob body language.
I hope they still have the dark shadows/I'm in a submarine type of look, like the Corsair or Artanis portrait, or Carrier as well.
Still feeling a Westwoody vibe with the new units. Some are really awesome, but I'm still skeptical about most of the designs with the Protoss units. I hope I get into beta or someone logs the evolution of the gfxzors
I'm only buying it when the Zerg box comes out, but I don't think a little outrage over no LAN when the original game came out when LAN was the better option is unreasonable
Please. SC2 has nothing on just Everquest and it's expansions (not including the monthly fee). 15 expansions with a 16th coming out later this year.
Charging money for this game is harm to the consumer, I dont think you can call this a valid argument for no lan support.
Isn't it so that they're addons? Expansions? So you have to buy the previous ones first.
Citation needed.
Congratulations, you are now officially the most retarded person ITT.
Anyways I hope Blizzard feels the heat and puts LAN in for SC2, I've had many a LAN party for SC and would hate to see us not migrating forward because we don't have a super expensive internet connection at the apartment we're playing in.
Taking out LAN only means that when people pirate the game (and they will) they wont be able to use things like Hamachi to play there Pirated game online via the LAN settings.
I'm sure some of you are thinking "But what about tournament play!?" We'll they have no issue making custom setups for there tournament games. Just look at WoW for instance. They have the ability to spectate built right in to the Tournament version of the WoW Arena. I wouldn't put it past them to have a copy of the game they use for tournaments that has LAN play on it.
A monthly fee is not what I would call free.
The free content is part of their justification of the fee itself. Without it, like a bunch of other MMOs, the userbase would atrophy instead of remaining quite consistent growth over four years.
EDIT: LAN Parties with a spider web of ethernet cables isn't very safe, but can't everyone bring a wireless internet USB port? I never tried it.
You could also make an argument that a monthly fee is mainly there for server support, balance patching, etc, and not for new content.
Of course, its all semantics, as blizzard does things and we pay them for it, one way or another.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
Oh he's pretty retarded, but you could've put that second part in your post so it wasnt just "retarded man ITT"
The arguments thus far is:
Its not fair to the consumer (which I reacted to, what about a product really is fair to the consumer except the entertainment they derive. you cant measure it in the entertainment they somehow deny you)
A game cannot support lan play if it doesn't have the feature (which isnt true, and I proved otherwise a few pages ago)
The fact of the matter is they are mad that there is no official lan support. How far into the warcraft 3 beta did warez groups add lan supportto the beta? It wasnt long before you saw private Bnet servers (which could be hosted on a local lan), that lan's could play on.
So worst comes to worst, history has shown that a small bit of people that would actually want lan play will get it, an extra feature for free, with a little work, that most of people probably dont need or want.
Its a nice feature, but lets get honest noone is buying this game JUST for lan gameplay, its either single player or multiplayer. Is blizzard going to loose customers because its gone? No, warez groups will put it in. Will the Lan feature get more sales? No. So why develop it? Keep the customers happy? It doesn't add up to bother making it and putting it in.
edit: because I super fucked up the last sentence. And I cant spell.
Blizzard can charge whatever they want for the game. That's their right. However forcing restrictions onto consumers in order to make more money is pointless and borderline unethical. It's just bad business. They are using there legal position to try and force people to use their products a certain way. Then when legitimate users want to try and hack in LAN play, they can cry that its a DMCA violation.
The whole point of this restriction is not to stop piracy. Anybody can see that. The purpose is to push people into buying add-ons and upgrades so they can continue to play with their buddies on Battle Net. Of course you wont need to have the upgrades to play but you wont be following your buddies into an online game that uses them. They have been using the same strategy on Playstation for a while now, adding the multiplayer maps and stuff as downloadable addons you buy. When you try to join a game, it asks "would you like to buy this?"
Do you have any proof that blizzard removed lan so they can force you to buy add-ons for b.net? cuz that pretty much goes against everything blizzard has done to date.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
I'm just reading stuff off of teamliquid.
For the hotkeys, the OP of the topic quoted Sigaty but didn't the link source and I can't find it on Google. So it might just be a rumor; I doubt it though considering they never thought custom hotkeys were important enough to add to their previous RTS - WC3.
As for online replays: around the 8 min mark.
THANK YOU!
umm, Brood War? Frozen Throne? aren't those add-ons you need to purchase? And I didn't say they would force anything. If you bothered read my post you would see that I explicitly stated that you would not need the upgrades... It's just going to be strongly encouraged... just like every other game they have ever made.
And here I thought patching was done to stop cheating, an entirely different issue.
Also, when you talk about Playstation games, you do realize that is completely irrelevant because you are talking about completely different developers, right?
Yeah, the WC3 install includes a CustomKeyInfo.txt file where you set them and a CustomKeysSample.txt file that shows you how to do it. It can be enabled or disabled in the options in the game.