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Final Fantasy Thread: There's a big difference between 'Mostly Dead' and 'All Dead'

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Posts

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Some other FF14 stuff:
    No experience points or levels...
    ...something weird about weapons, they're important (they're sticking out of the logo)

    This makes me think that you boost your stats by upgrading weapons and armour... although I wouldn't be surprised if they add something similar to X's Sphere Grid...

    As long as I don't have to spend points to learn how to wear a hat I'll be fine with whatever system they use.

    TheStig on
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  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hmm... I'm hoping more info comes out about the class system. One thing that really turned me off from FFXI was that if I wanted to play a Blue Mage, not only did I need to buy an expansion, but then I had to grind up and then do a special quest. And the main reason I decided to get the game was because I love myself some Blue Magic.

    Of course, I was also trying it with a friend at the time, and as such I couldn't grind that much because we were trying to level our characters together and he was a lot more casual than me. But just the fact that it was a pain to just play the main class I wanted to play was annoying in and of itself.

    Iblis on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    TheStig wrote: »
    As long as I don't have to spend points to learn how to wear a hat I'll be fine with whatever system they use.

    I always took it as more of a license to use the latent magicks within the equipment. Any mook can wear the thing, but it takes a license and knowledge to benefit significantly from it.

    UncleSporky on
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  • GraviijaGraviija Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Needing a license to be allowed to wear a hat is lame, no matter how you try to justify it.

    Graviija on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Graviija wrote: »
    Needing a license to be allowed to wear a hat is lame, no matter how you try to justify it.

    I think the license system would have been better served by only governing abilities (because that could actually make sense), and let equipment be restricted by class to some degree, or even have a bundle "warrior" license, "mage" license, etc, which enabled the relevant equipment types. (justify it as training or something)

    Vincent Grayson on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    They should let you wear things that you haven't purchased a license for, you just run the risk of being caught and jailed/fined by the equipment license police roaming the countryside.

    TheStig on
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Some other FF14 stuff:
    No experience points or levels...
    ...something weird about weapons, they're important (they're sticking out of the logo)

    This makes me think that you boost your stats by upgrading weapons and armour... although I wouldn't be surprised if they add something similar to X's Sphere Grid...

    Hmm, MMORPG endgames already work like that. In theory, you could just do the same thing from the start. They'd need to find some way to prevent itemization from being completely screwed up. Perhaps some sort of incremental upgrade system, where you can use collected resources to make existing items better. That way, even if you don't get a worthwhile upgrade, you can make the stuff that you already have slightly better.

    jothki on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I prefer to just assume that the majority of gameplay mechanics have no relevance or bearing to the rest of the game. Makes things easier to deal with, rather than trying to come up with justifications. :)

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Graviija wrote: »
    Needing a license to be allowed to wear a hat is lame, no matter how you try to justify it.

    It's not a matter of being allowed, it's a matter of wearing it and being able to benefit from it. Your characters won't equip it because it would serve no purpose.

    However this is the appropriate response:
    I prefer to just assume that the majority of gameplay mechanics have no relevance or bearing to the rest of the game. Makes things easier to deal with, rather than trying to come up with justifications. :)

    In the end, it's just a matter of numbers that make your numbers bigger. Would it satisfy everyone if they had been called "magical augmentations," rather than "hats?"

    UncleSporky on
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  • GraviijaGraviija Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Graviija wrote: »
    Needing a license to be allowed to wear a hat is lame, no matter how you try to justify it.

    It's not a matter of being allowed, it's a matter of wearing it and being able to benefit from it. Your characters won't equip it because it would serve no purpose.

    However this is the appropriate response:
    I prefer to just assume that the majority of gameplay mechanics have no relevance or bearing to the rest of the game. Makes things easier to deal with, rather than trying to come up with justifications. :)

    In the end, it's just a matter of numbers that make your numbers bigger. Would it satisfy everyone if they had been called "magical augmentations," rather than "hats?"
    I more take issue with the term 'license', but yes, pretty much everything involving videogame logic comes down to debating semantics. On some level.

    Graviija on
  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Graviija wrote: »
    Graviija wrote: »
    Needing a license to be allowed to wear a hat is lame, no matter how you try to justify it.

    It's not a matter of being allowed, it's a matter of wearing it and being able to benefit from it. Your characters won't equip it because it would serve no purpose.

    However this is the appropriate response:
    I prefer to just assume that the majority of gameplay mechanics have no relevance or bearing to the rest of the game. Makes things easier to deal with, rather than trying to come up with justifications. :)

    In the end, it's just a matter of numbers that make your numbers bigger. Would it satisfy everyone if they had been called "magical augmentations," rather than "hats?"
    I more take issue with the term 'license', but yes, pretty much everything involving videogame logic comes down to debating semantics. On some level.

    Personally, I like it when explanations are put into place, because it makes everything fit better for me.

    Using Halo as an example. Halo explains its regenerating health mechanic very well. Now, after Halo, its because standard that almost all FPS games have regenerating health. However, none of them really try to explain it. While I don't mind playing the other games, I do appreciate that Halo explained, and explained well why my health bar refilled itself after 10 seconds.

    Similarly, I liked how VII explained that we were using petrified knowledge of the ancients, as opposed to VIII or IX sucking enemies of their memories/weapons that just come with spells.

    Kor on
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I prefer to just assume that the majority of gameplay mechanics have no relevance or bearing to the rest of the game. Makes things easier to deal with, rather than trying to come up with justifications. :)

    The problem is that it makes little sense and that it's kind of a sucky mechanic gameplay-wise. Either alone would be easily forgivable.

    jothki on
  • PrincepeachPrincepeach Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    The FF series has never been known for particularly strong villains, unfortunately.

    Luca Blight, now there's an evil motherfucker (not to mention an extremely fucking difficult boss fight).
    All you gotta do is put Humphrey and/or Oulan in your team and you're basically unable to lose against Lucca since they both have so much defense that they'll be taking one or two damage from every attack.

    I love the Luca Blight boss battles because they forced you to use so many characters at once. I really enjoyed training them just to see them kick total ass. RPGs need to have more split-party boss battles or split-party sections. Suikoden and FFIX do this on occasion, as does Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits. I want to play a game from three points of view with three completely different parties that never merge or anything and fight different boss battles at the end.

    Late, but Kartia for the PS1 was somewhat like that. Only 2 playable paths, but they both took place largely independently of one another (thought the characters do meet) and both end with different boss battles. There isn't some unified REAL boss battle either. You just beat both story paths and that's it.

    What's cooler about it is that the game has a chapter setup, and they're chronologically ordered. So playing through Toxa's quest, you'll see chapter 1, 3, 8, 9, 12 etc. And with Lacryma you'll see all of the others you missed out on.

    The game has Amano artwork too, but all it really does is emphasize how much that man needs a "translator" so to speak whenever he does videogame art. He's a great artist, but someone has to be there to really make it work in game.

    Princepeach on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh don't get me wrong, I love it when shit makes sense and they actually explain it. Especially now that it's starting to become the norm.

    But I've also grown up playing games where my 9999 hp party member gets laid out in one hit via cutscene and dies, while everybody else laments the fact that he's gone, despite the fact that they're carrying a Life spell and a full stock of Phoenix Down's.

    So I've basically become immune to the story/gameplay segragation problem.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • ZerokkuZerokku Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh don't get me wrong, I love it when shit makes sense and they actually explain it. Especially now that it's starting to become the norm.

    But I've also grown up playing games where my 9999 hp party member gets laid out in one hit via cutscene and dies, while everybody else laments the fact that he's gone, despite the fact that they're carrying a Life spell and a full stock of Phoenix Down's.

    Thats because your characters dont die in battle, they get knocked out, and Life/Phoenix Down revives from K.O.

    Zerokku on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.

    Aeris is all dead. Cloud reduced to zero HP is just mostly dead.

    Blackjack on
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  • ZerokkuZerokku Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Blackjack wrote: »
    It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.

    :^:

    Best movie ever.

    Zerokku on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh don't get me wrong, I love it when shit makes sense and they actually explain it. Especially now that it's starting to become the norm.

    But I've also grown up playing games where my 9999 hp party member gets laid out in one hit via cutscene and dies, while everybody else laments the fact that he's gone, despite the fact that they're carrying a Life spell and a full stock of Phoenix Down's.

    So I've basically become immune to the story/gameplay segragation problem.

    I hate it in FFXI when some dude in a cut scene smacks you, knocks you out or acts like a total asshole to you then you end up fighting him a few missions later and he turns out to be a total chump. I wish it would have just given me the option to kick his ass earlier in the story.
    Though it probably have ruined a lot of the missions.

    TheStig on
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  • MorvidusMorvidus Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Anybody want a peanut?

    andrethegiant.jpg

    Morvidus on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I like how IX sets up Beatrix, in that respect. Like, ah fuck, I have to fight her again?

    Really IX in general has turned out to be pretty good, even if the whole 'shirts that teach you spells!' thing is a little silly.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    But Beatrix is the worst offender. She's easy as hell but then it's like "ummmm...I'm gonna end the fight by using an attack that takes you all down to 1 HP which is super easy to recover from, but if you could pretend like you haven't been kicking my ass this whole fight, that'd be super cool."

    Blackjack on
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  • MinionOfCthulhuMinionOfCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Blackjack wrote: »
    But Beatrix is the worst offender. She's easy as hell but then it's like "ummmm...I'm gonna end the fight by using an attack that takes you all down to 1 HP which is super easy to recover from, but if you could pretend like you haven't been kicking my ass this whole fight, that'd be super cool."

    And then she suffers from Magus Syndrome when you finally get to play as her.

    MinionOfCthulhu on
    mgssig.jpg1152dt.gif
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Blackjack wrote: »
    But Beatrix is the worst offender. She's easy as hell but then it's like "ummmm...I'm gonna end the fight by using an attack that takes you all down to 1 HP which is super easy to recover from, but if you could pretend like you haven't been kicking my ass this whole fight, that'd be super cool."

    And then she suffers from Magus Syndrome when you finally get to play as her.

    As an example of Magus Syndrome, Magus himself really isn't that bad. The first time you fight him, he's been expecting a fight (not with you, but a fight nonetheless) way in advance, and had a bunch of barriers and the like set up. The second time, he's pretty much in line with your characters damagewise (he just has inflated hp and the ability to counterattack), and can be beaten with Frog alone.

    jothki on
  • APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Blackjack wrote: »
    But Beatrix is the worst offender. She's easy as hell but then it's like "ummmm...I'm gonna end the fight by using an attack that takes you all down to 1 HP which is super easy to recover from, but if you could pretend like you haven't been kicking my ass this whole fight, that'd be super cool."

    And then she suffers from Magus Syndrome when you finally get to play as her.

    To be fair, she does keep the move that reduces people to 1hp but it only works on one person, irrc.
    Some other FF14 stuff:
    No experience points or levels...
    ...something weird about weapons, they're important (they're sticking out of the logo)

    This makes me think that you boost your stats by upgrading weapons and armour... although I wouldn't be surprised if they add something similar to X's Sphere Grid...

    I think it'll be more like FF2, actually. They said they wanted people to be able to change weapons on the fly and not be locked into a class and specific weapon set - they want people to be able to pick a different weapon every day if they really want. The FF2 system would work in this respect, except less hellishly broken of course.

    APZonerunner on
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  • CalaveronCalaveron Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    jothki wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    But Beatrix is the worst offender. She's easy as hell but then it's like "ummmm...I'm gonna end the fight by using an attack that takes you all down to 1 HP which is super easy to recover from, but if you could pretend like you haven't been kicking my ass this whole fight, that'd be super cool."

    And then she suffers from Magus Syndrome when you finally get to play as her.

    As an example of Magus Syndrome, Magus himself really isn't that bad. The first time you fight him, he's been expecting a fight (not with you, but a fight nonetheless) way in advance, and had a bunch of barriers and the like set up. The second time, he's pretty much in line with your characters damagewise (he just has inflated hp and the ability to counterattack), and can be beaten with Frog alone.

    Ironically, Magus doesn't suffer from Magus Syndrome. Magus Syndrome implies that when an extremely powerful enemy/NPC from a game joins your party he is inexplicably weaker.
    Magus himself was drained of all his power when he attempted to attack Lavos, which is why he's so weak.
    It would be like saying that Jade from ToA suffers from Magus Syndrome, when it's explained he was hit with a spell that drained all his scary necromantic powers.

    Calaveron on
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Lunker wrote: »
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Why the fuck is FF 11-2 getting a major number? Why wont they just accept the truth already and stop wasting the final fantasy names on everything?

    Its just getting silly at this point. You put a non game (MMO) in the list then you make an OBVIOUS sequel to it and make it a total different number not even sequential.

    Im sorry I have to vent this. It almost feels like the days of FF2/4 at this point, because FF Online and FF online 2 decided to butt in on the whole order thing.

    The name of the game bugs you this much?


    While I agree that it's probably a silly thing to complain about, this bothers me a lot as well.

    Then again, I've also made the claim that I would have enjoyed FFXII a lot more if it had been marketed as something like "Final Fantasy: The Ivalice Chronicles", instead of pretending to be a continuation of the FFI through FFX (as opposed to the continuation of FFT and FFXI that it actually was).

    gjaustin on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Why the fuck is FF 11-2 getting a major number? Why wont they just accept the truth already and stop wasting the final fantasy names on everything?

    Its just getting silly at this point. You put a non game (MMO) in the list then you make an OBVIOUS sequel to it and make it a total different number not even sequential.

    Im sorry I have to vent this. It almost feels like the days of FF2/4 at this point, because FF Online and FF online 2 decided to butt in on the whole order thing.

    The name of the game bugs you this much?


    While I agree that it's probably a silly thing to complain about, this bothers me a lot as well.

    Then again, I've also made the claim that I would have enjoyed FFXII a lot more if it had been marketed as something like "Final Fantasy: The Ivalice Chronicles", instead of pretending to be a continuation of the FFI through FFX (as opposed to the continuation of FFT and FFXI that it actually was).
    The series has no continuity they can call it whatever they want

    They could've named FFT "FF8." Could've named FFX "Final Fantasy Gaiden: Tales of Spira." None of it matters.

    UncleSporky on
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  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It has theme and gameplay continuation.

    FFXII has Chocobos, Moogles, and not much else. And it plays wildly differently from FFI through FFX.

    I think Lost Odyssey is more deserving of a Final Fantasy number than FFXII is.

    Mandatory reminder that I'm not claiming that FFXII is a bad game, just that it wasn't what I wanted. This is entirely subjective.

    gjaustin on
  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gjaustin wrote: »
    It has theme and gameplay continuation.

    FFXII has Chocobos, Moogles, and not much else. And it plays wildly differently from FFI through FFX.

    I think Lost Odyssey is more deserving of a Final Fantasy number than FFXII is.

    Mandatory reminder that I'm not claiming that FFXII is a bad game, just that it wasn't what I wanted. This is entirely subjective.

    If FFXII's name is throwing you off, I have a Sharpie pen you can borrow.

    I'll admit I'm not into the finer points of FF lore, but ... really? You see thematic commonality between all of the base-numbered FF games, and this theme wasn't present in FFXII? And how are you coping with all of the eighteen different FFXIII games that are coming out? :)

    Lunker on
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  • APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    FF12 is basically an Ivalice Alliance/Tactics game more than a main-line FF. I agree that Lost Odyssey has more in common with the 'classic FF' feel than FF12. That's not a slight against FF12, mind - just an observation. Both are fucking great games.

    Lost Odyssey really feels like Sakaguchi making an FF12 'for him' with everything from the airships to the traditional world map that's absent from 10, 12 and 13 and even the clearly-deliberately named Sed, who is the old, grizzled airship pilot.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gjaustin wrote: »
    FFXII has Chocobos, Moogles, and not much else. And it plays wildly differently from FFI through FFX.

    I was going to leave this alone, but Lunker is right. XII has Cid and all the relevant summons, all the classic item names and equipment types, enemy names and abilities, ability and spell names, "Limit Breaks," the theme of the quirky ragtag team taking down an empire (what is that, like 3/4th of the FFs), the sort of back stories for each character including that one nonhuman person.

    FF2 wasn't wildly different from other FFs? You don't think the jump to the Active Time battle system was considered a wildly different change back in the day? Or its subsequent return with heavy modifications in X, that by the way didn't even have character levels?

    XII was more of an FF game that X; at least it was high fantasy rather than a tropical world with bizarre names and customs. That isn't to say anything against X, just that it did not feel like a Final Fantasy game to me. It felt like Waterworld or something.

    UncleSporky on
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  • rakuenCallistorakuenCallisto Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    I was going to leave this alone, but Lunker is right. XII has Cid and all the relevant summons, all the classic item names and equipment types, enemy names and abilities, ability and spell names, "Limit Breaks," the theme of the quirky ragtag team taking down an empire (what is that, like 3/4th of the FFs), the sort of back stories for each character including that one nonhuman person.

    FF2 wasn't wildly different from other FFs? You don't think the jump to the Active Time battle system was considered a wildly different change back in the day? Or its subsequent return with heavy modifications in X, that by the way didn't even have character levels?

    XII was more of an FF game that X; at least it was high fantasy rather than a tropical world with bizarre names and customs. That isn't to say anything against X, just that it did not feel like a Final Fantasy game to me. It felt like Waterworld or something.
    FFXII didn't feel like a Final Fantasy either.

    Hell, sometimes it didn't even feel like a game if that makes any sense.

    Way too vast of a world for a console RPG.

    rakuenCallisto on
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  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I was going to leave this alone, but Lunker is right. XII has Cid and all the relevant summons, all the classic item names and equipment types, enemy names and abilities, ability and spell names, "Limit Breaks," the theme of the quirky ragtag team taking down an empire (what is that, like 3/4th of the FFs), the sort of back stories for each character including that one nonhuman person.

    FF2 wasn't wildly different from other FFs? You don't think the jump to the Active Time battle system was considered a wildly different change back in the day? Or its subsequent return with heavy modifications in X, that by the way didn't even have character levels?

    XII was more of an FF game that X; at least it was high fantasy rather than a tropical world with bizarre names and customs. That isn't to say anything against X, just that it did not feel like a Final Fantasy game to me. It felt like Waterworld or something.
    FFXII didn't feel like a Final Fantasy either.

    Hell, sometimes it didn't even feel like a game if that makes any sense.

    Way too vast of a world for a console RPG.

    Please expand on that last sentence. I'm curious about what you mean.

    Renzo on
  • rakuenCallistorakuenCallisto Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    I like how IX sets up Beatrix, in that respect. Like, ah fuck, I have to fight her again?

    Really IX in general has turned out to be pretty good, even if the whole 'shirts that teach you spells!' thing is a little silly.
    That just helps you more with crazy spells that you can't learn, you need to find.

    I found this very very interesting and fun in IX, so not everyone who plays the game has the same skills and spells.

    Plus, Amarant Coral is the fucking man. And Vivi.

    rakuenCallisto on
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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    XII didn't feel like an FF to me because it didn't feel like the characters mattered in the grand scheme of things, except maybe Ashe.

    Granted, I got maybe... however far Demon Wall/Raithwall's tomb is before I got bored, but till then it just felt like "Oh! Is a thing happening? Maybe we'll kind of tag along or something. I dunno." In every other FF it was all "Fuck yeeeaaaah let's do some shit and save the world and make some shit HAPPEN!" and in XII it was like all the cool shit was happening somewhere else and you were just kind of hoping to maybe catch wind of what it might have been like to see said cool shit.

    Reznik on
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  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The only thing that bugged me about the world of XII was that I could see places on my world map that I could not travel to.

    That, and the absence of actually flying an airship of course. Though I understand the reason for the latter.

    Kor on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    FFXII didn't feel like a Final Fantasy either.

    Hell, sometimes it didn't even feel like a game if that makes any sense.

    Way too vast of a world for a console RPG.
    XII felt exactly like what a Final Fantasy game should be. They streamlined it in the right direction, no waiting for the beginning and end of fights. I remember the first time a fight was over and it tallied up the spoils inobtrusively in the corner as I kept running, I was so happy.

    Also I never thought I'd see someone complain that a world was too vast. At least it improved on X's little island that barely had proper transitions between areas.

    UncleSporky on
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  • rakuenCallistorakuenCallisto Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Renzo wrote: »
    Please expand on that last sentence. I'm curious about what you mean.
    I mean I could easily beat the game while following the book and still have like 300 hours of travelling and discovering.

    This is cool and all, but if it doesn't matter since I beat the game or went in a total other direction, why should I bother?

    It just felt more like an MMO that doesn't have other people on the server, just you, like a FFXI remake but singleplayer.

    rakuenCallisto on
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  • KorKor Known to detonate from time to time Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You didn't do any hunts? Those were like the best part of XII. :P

    Kor on
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  • APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    When you look at FF12's company in Ivalice Alliance - FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, FFTA and FFTA2 (But we'll ignore Crystal Defenders, which despite being Ivalice isn't canon anyway) it certainly fits with those games more than it fits with FF1-11.

    Lost Odyssey is certainly FF12 in disguise in many ways.

    APZonerunner on
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