Moria cost money, right? Oh god I have a level 21 champion who has waaay too many buttons. But I don't know if I want to relevel someone when i've got someone that high. Ahhh alt bonanza.
21 is low. If you already dislike the class you can better reroll now and enjoy a class with more fun combat.
Right on both counts -- after my apparently abnormally long update for the SoM update, I started a brand new Captain late on 12/02, played only sparingly during the week (not at all on the 4th), and last night made it to level 20 (with Undying title, despite a couple of very close calls at lvls 18/19 thanks to poor control of my herald -- how do you call him back from a mistaken attack command, anyway? Is it just a toggle?). In particular, getting from 1-10 is almost ridiculously easy and quick now -- you'll probably be leaving the intro area at 8 or 9, possibly even 10 if you fiddle around a bit and end up doing a lot of extra combat (I think my Captain hit 10 on the 1st or 2nd quest outside Archet).
My minstrel is at 25 now, and Warspeech definitely helps solo work, but remember to take it off if you're going into healer mode. Also, I think there's a brief debuff upon deactivating it, so it's probably not something to toggle during combat.
10 second timer from warspeech to normal healing, epic bitching on the forums about it, apparently minis can't solo at all now its the end of the world etc.
If you think champs have a lot of buttons fucking Loremasters are the kings of "And here's another ability..." Love mine but for gods sake madness!
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
There's not a WoW-ish type endgame, which pisses some people off for some strange reason.
Yah ok, I come from Ye Goode Olde Days of WoW where I spent about as much time grinding materials and gold to pay for potions and repairs as I spent time playing with 39 other individuals in a raid.
That is also the reason i stopped playing WoW, as much fun as the raids were, so little fun the grind was (especially for a resto shaman). It didn't help that I was so busy with exams and shit that I didn't even have time to level a hunter to grind with.
With LOTRO it's all a lot more casual, all you need to do is run a few instances a dozen times to get radiance gear and make some potions once a month (seriously, I've got stacks and stacks of the stuff stashed away for rainy days) and I'm good to go.
We clear all current content in WoW in 4 hours on Wednesday nights. The LOTRO "endgame" can be cleared in a similar amount of time. This is very boring. I am not an alt-holic. LOTRO is just as grindy as WoW when you have 6 days a week with no endgame.
Bikkstah on
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GlorntI'm the Bob Ross of Wombats.And I just had a "happy accident"... in my pants!Registered Userregular
So if I was goign to start this game up, have no resources, etc etc... What would be the best class for solo / casual play? Do tradeskills matter?
If you're not going to have an alt brigade, Explorer is the way to go for tradeskills -- as Aldo said, it's good for making money. The crafting professions all create some useful items, but I've found that scholar, cook and farmer can be a pain for not much gain in terms of getting to a level where they start to pay off.
As for the class, hunters can kill super-quick, and with good trapping can handle 2-3 mobs without much trouble, depending on how fast you can mow down your first non-trapped foe. Wardens are fun once you get used to the gambit system (think AoC combat, but not as clunky), Guardians are your traditional tank class, good for taking on gangs, Champions can also handle multiple mobs nicely. Depending on how casual your casual is, you might want to pass on LoreMaster or Captain (pet classes -- if you're used to a WoW hunter, these pets are not as sturdy or as good at holding aggro from my experience), and RuneKeeper might require more attention, being a squishy class, although it is pretty interesting.
We clear all current content in WoW in 4 hours on Wednesday nights. The LOTRO "endgame" can be cleared in a similar amount of time. This is very boring. I am not an alt-holic. LOTRO is just as grindy as WoW when you have 6 days a week with no endgame.
I'm not understanding they have a similar clear time as the main mmo competitor but one has an end game and the other does not?
I'm really at a loss here.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So if I was goign to start this game up, have no resources, etc etc... What would be the best class for solo / casual play? Do tradeskills matter?
If you're not going to have an alt brigade, Explorer is the way to go for tradeskills -- as Aldo said, it's good for making money. The crafting professions all create some useful items, but I've found that scholar, cook and farmer can be a pain for not much gain in terms of getting to a level where they start to pay off.
As for the class, hunters can kill super-quick, and with good trapping can handle 2-3 mobs without much trouble, depending on how fast you can mow down your first non-trapped foe. Wardens are fun once you get used to the gambit system (think AoC combat, but not as clunky), Guardians are your traditional tank class, good for taking on gangs, Champions can also handle multiple mobs nicely. Depending on how casual your casual is, you might want to pass on LoreMaster or Captain (pet classes -- if you're used to a WoW hunter, these pets are not as sturdy or as good at holding aggro from my experience), and RuneKeeper might require more attention, being a squishy class, although it is pretty interesting.
LOTRO pets are not WoW pets. They are meant as an additional damager, but not the whole show. Surprising that different games use different mechanics...
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I would say go for a hunter with Explorer as a tradeskill for your first guy. Hunters have nice travel skills that allow you to get around easy. Rank up explorer so if you do decide to do tradeskills with an alt your main will be able to easily supply the materials (Wood, Ore, Leather)
Burglars are actually exceptional solo. With their stealth skills you can sneak off with some objectives sans fighting, you have two or 3 oh shit dodge increase moves, plus self heals and your conjunction starters can be used for long stuns. I solo'd elites that later on my duo ran into some problems with. Plus you also have a reliable cc with riddle as well.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Burglars are actually exceptional solo. With their stealth skills you can sneak off with some objectives sans fighting, you have two or 3 oh shit dodge increase moves, plus self heals and your conjunction starters can be used for long stuns. I solo'd elites that later on my duo ran into some problems with. Plus you also have a reliable cc with riddle as well.
The main reason I didnt start a Burg was I was unsure about doing stuff solo. I'll have to roll one up
Burglars are actually exceptional solo. With their stealth skills you can sneak off with some objectives sans fighting, you have two or 3 oh shit dodge increase moves, plus self heals and your conjunction starters can be used for long stuns. I solo'd elites that later on my duo ran into some problems with. Plus you also have a reliable cc with riddle as well.
The main reason I didnt start a Burg was I was unsure about doing stuff solo. I'll have to roll one up
They are great solo, you debuff your targets, have a couple evasion perks you can pop (one is dependent on you getting stunned and heals on top of the evasion, the other is just flat out evasion not on the same cool down). And you can heal yourself and stun the mobs at well. Burgs are one of the premier level solo classes imho.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Guardian: Heavy armor + heavy shield + high morale = really hard to kill. Early levels takes on multiple mobs by just mitigating more damage than other classes can, later levels can trait and use LIs to improve AoE abilities.
Champion: Speaking of AoE abilities... Champs are the kings of AoE damage in this game, meaning they can handle multi-mob pulls better than any other class. They are, however, surprisingly squishy for a heavy armor wearer, since Fervour stance keeps them from parrying or evading attacks. So every encounter is a race to kill what you're fighting before it kills you. Don't worry though. Champs win almost every time.
Captain: Lack of AoE skills or ranged skills make them a chore to kill things with, but they get this skill called Last Stand which means that for 10 seconds (longer if traited), you can't die. Usually long enough to finishing killing the quest mob/elite/whatever or to run away.
Hunter: Another "I will kill you before you kill me" class. Plus, since hunters are ranged dps, they usually end up being "I will kill you before you even touch me". Toss in a couple CC-ish abilities, and there you go.
Burgler: See previous posts. Note that some of their CC abilities just work on humanoid mobs. They don't handle beasts quite as well. Still ridiculously good soloers, though.
Minstrel: Can trait into medium armor and is one of two classes that can reliably self-heal. Has issues dealing with more than one mob at a time until you get a couple warspeech AoE skills, and can't heal and run at the same time, but once you get your in-combat power regen up, you can solo almost any single target, so long as you've got the time.
Warden: The other reliable self-healer. Desgined as a solo class, these guys can wade into a group of 10 mobs and end the fight at full morale. (And probably no power.) Lots of skills that heal themselves, drain enemy morale, buff their defenses, and every once in a while, they might actually do some damage. They are the slowest killers, but they make up for it by never dying.
Loremaster: The kings of CC. Light armor, not so great on the dps side of things, but their sleeves are full of tricks. Back in the day, a couple of raid bosses got buffed for no other reason than because Loremasters could solo them.
Runekeeper: Possibly the best single target healer in the game. Possibly the best single target dps in the game. Only problem is, can't do both at once. With practice, though, you can go from one to the other pretty quickly, but that gets power-intensive quickly. Nevertheless, if you know what you're doing (i.e. if you can't heal through the damage, kite and use lightning skills), the only times you should die are because you pulled too many mobs.
My friend is a very high level Warden, which is why I wasn't thinking too much about that. I remember playing a Captain (tried my best to make him look like that guy on the Rum Bottles with limited success) for a bit, and I did roll upa Runekeeper just for shits and giggles, didn't get too far in it.
Every few months I remember I own a lifetime sub and fire the game up, realize I'm completely and utterly lost, and go back to WOW, heh.
Loremasters actually have decent dps if traited moderately for it. They hit harder then a burg (having played both I feel I can say that reliably) with better cc/debuffing. Burgs do bring conjuctions at whim. People over look that until they are in a hole like Dark Delving and being able to rely on a key power morale cj makes a hard fight into easy sauce.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Did a few small fellowship skirmishes with sonelon & theode earlier today; do the protector soldiers ever get resilient enough to tank EMs? Was kind of surprised at the dual EM spawns at the end of each (and we got roasted in a few shots by the drake in gondamon, good times )
Champion: Speaking of AoE abilities... Champs are the kings of AoE damage in this game, meaning they can handle multi-mob pulls better than any other class. They are, however, surprisingly squishy for a heavy armor wearer, since Fervour stance keeps them from parrying or evading attacks. So every encounter is a race to kill what you're fighting before it kills you. Don't worry though. Champs win almost every time.
Every time?
Eeeeeeeh. That's debatable.
Two mobs is probably my max. Three even-levels is going to be risky. I've found that I've *got* the damage, but I'll either run out of power and not be able to put out enough damage (if I'm not running Fervour), or it'll be really close and die when they're really low if I've got Fervour up.
The AoE stuns like Sound the Attack and the Horn are really what's going to save your life. If a mob ends up healing itself, though, you're cooked. You just don't have enough time to DPS them down *again* before you run out of life.
AoE's work vastly better, though, when you're duoing with someone that can keep aggro off yourself.
Adamant seems to help a bit, but it's on a long cooldown and you can't rely on it.
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So if I was goign to start this game up, have no resources, etc etc... What would be the best class for solo / casual play? Do tradeskills matter?
If you're not going to have an alt brigade, Explorer is the way to go for tradeskills -- as Aldo said, it's good for making money. The crafting professions all create some useful items, but I've found that scholar, cook and farmer can be a pain for not much gain in terms of getting to a level where they start to pay off.
As for the class, hunters can kill super-quick, and with good trapping can handle 2-3 mobs without much trouble, depending on how fast you can mow down your first non-trapped foe. Wardens are fun once you get used to the gambit system (think AoC combat, but not as clunky), Guardians are your traditional tank class, good for taking on gangs, Champions can also handle multiple mobs nicely. Depending on how casual your casual is, you might want to pass on LoreMaster or Captain (pet classes -- if you're used to a WoW hunter, these pets are not as sturdy or as good at holding aggro from my experience), and RuneKeeper might require more attention, being a squishy class, although it is pretty interesting.
LOTRO pets are not WoW pets. They are meant as an additional damager, but not the whole show. Surprising that different games use different mechanics...
There are other differences as well -- while they won't serve as a tank and turn you into a full-time two-man group, they somewhat make up for this (for captain's herald, don't remember for sure if LM pets have this) by being able to heal you (it takes away from their own morale, but if they don't have the aggro, it doesn't matter, and if you're close to the end of a fight, you may need to sacrifice him anyway). When fighting two mobs, one thing that works pretty well is to fire off an opening attack from ranged distance against one, send pet against it, then switch to the other mob (make sure you turn off auto-assist, or the pet will switch along with you). This turns it into two 1-v-1 fights, and if you're fighting near-level mobs, even if your pet bites it, you should be able to finish off the pair; generally one of you will finish first and then be able to switch to help finish off the second. With a captain, this also works against 3, with the captain taking on two and the herald the third, especially once you hit 20 and get heavy armour.
My main point was that the pet classes in LOTRO require more management than the more traditional classes (or WoW hunters -- our pets' specials don't fire off automatically), and may not be as suited to a "casual" player. In addition to managing your pet, you need to make sure to keep up all your buffs and opponent debuffs, while continuing to wail away at the baddies, and as far as I know, we don't have settings or mods to flash messages on the screen when one of these is about to expire.
Regarding burglars, that's the class I have the least experience with, so I leave it to others to answer for them. My main question would be how they fare against multiple mobs. Just don't think of them as WoW rogues. They have similarities, but I don't think there's an exact correspondence between any of the classes (LM / warlock might be the closest, but I never played a warlock in WoW).
Burgs fair well against multi mob, gambler burgs can use all the stuns and extra gambles (like provoke from stealth will cc anything as a burg). You won't kill them all at once, but you can make the fight mano eh mano often enough (most enemies you get in packs are humanoid save the gredbyrg or skirmishes).
LM pets heal their owners through flanking (you get extra damage from an attack and like 500 morale, birds flank best).
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
We clear all current content in WoW in 4 hours on Wednesday nights. The LOTRO "endgame" can be cleared in a similar amount of time. This is very boring. I am not an alt-holic. LOTRO is just as grindy as WoW when you have 6 days a week with no endgame.
I'm not understanding they have a similar clear time as the main mmo competitor but one has an end game and the other does not?
I'm really at a loss here.
It took us 4 months of raiding 3 nights a week to condense our end game content to 1 night. I like progression raiding and the working that leads up to putting end game content on farm. This does not exist in LOTRO and is why I quit within days of hitting 60.
Do caps generally use 2 handers or a sword and board?
Sword and board for healing (extra stats is what I usually hear) 2 handers for dps/leveling. Though with good stats/legacies on a 2 hander you could in theory heal from that.
Bikkstah when people talk about Wow raids like a job/night school, do you think that makes it sound appealing to those of us who prefer lotro casual approach? You don't like that, that's cool theres a very popular game that does exactly what you want.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So, every class is great solo, just so you know.
Hunter: Another "I will kill you before you kill me" class. Plus, since hunters are ranged dps, they usually end up being "I will kill you before you even touch me". Toss in a couple CC-ish abilities, and there you go.
Yep. Against an even-level regular mob, if you start combat at the edge of ranged limit and it makes it into melee range, you've probably done something wrong (or been unlucky and had multiple misses). It's hard not to enjoy being a hunter, although it can be a challenge in densely populated areas. With proper trapping and pulling, most 1-v-2's become sequential 1-v-1's, and while the second fight will generally involve some melee action, it seems to me that LOTRO hunters fare better in melee than do their WoW counterparts (no "dead zone", for one thing). Also, they do have an "oh shit" miracle escape button, but I always forget to use it.
Hunters are fun, and their ability to tp around the world comes in super handy. On top of that run speed buff. Great intial play. Just for the of christ be a hunter named "Leg*** ANYTHING!"
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Hunters are a blast to play, but I did my first instance run (Great Barrows) the other day, and the fellowship was 4 hunters, a runekeeper, and me (loremaster).
Hunters are a blast to play, but I did my first instance run (Great Barrows) the other day, and the fellowship was 4 hunters, a runekeeper, and me (loremaster).
That's why I don't play my hunter.
I swear whatever class you play its like when you buy a car, YOU ALWAYS SEE THAT CLASS!
I'm convinced if I did a minnie I'd be in group of 5 minnies all the time.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Do caps generally use 2 handers or a sword and board?
Sword and board for healing (extra stats is what I usually hear) 2 handers for dps/leveling. Though with good stats/legacies on a 2 hander you could in theory heal from that.
Bikkstah when people talk about Wow raids like a job/night school, do you think that makes it sound appealing to those of us who prefer lotro casual approach? You don't like that, that's cool theres a very popular game that does exactly what you want.
On my initial character in that very popular game, I followed a friend into one of those hardcore raiding guilds and left it within the week -- if I wanted a second job, I'd get one that pays real money.
Heh, when I was in TBS, the majority of the people were playing 8+ hours a day. The only reason I had the first 60 is because I didn't have eight level 35's like everyone else instead. Save the "I only have 3 minutes a day for MMOs" argument for another day.
Champion: Speaking of AoE abilities... Champs are the kings of AoE damage in this game, meaning they can handle multi-mob pulls better than any other class. They are, however, surprisingly squishy for a heavy armor wearer, since Fervour stance keeps them from parrying or evading attacks. So every encounter is a race to kill what you're fighting before it kills you. Don't worry though. Champs win almost every time.
Every time?
I said almost. But yeah, I don't die much playing my champ. Clobber anything that starts a green induction (indicating heal), use Controlled Burn if it looks like it might be a dicey pull, Dire Need and Adamant if it turned out to be in fact a dicey pull, try to find a rotation that's both pip- and power-positive, don't forget your on-defeat skills, and whango.
So, Bikk, out of curiosity, do you have anything to add to this discussion other than "I was the first 60 in TBS, call me when LotRO gets an endgame"? I mean, I guess we could apologize that you find a game we all enjoy boring...
Heh, when I was in TBS, the majority of the people were playing 8+ hours a day. The only reason I had the first 60 is because I didn't have eight level 35's like everyone else instead. Save the "I only have 3 minutes a day for MMOs" argument for another day.
One can play a lot and still be casual, for me I just like being able to do what I want to do. Wow raiding that I was involved with always ended up being job like. Have to rush home make the raid, screw eating etc. Everyone always claims to be able to raid "casually" I've never fucking seen it and I played wow for 3 years.
LOTRO seems to do fine with their style, shit my server is having lag issues and I haven't seen that in a while, and I'm seeing more people in zones that used to be empty.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I said almost. But yeah, I don't die much playing my champ. Clobber anything that starts a green induction (indicating heal), use Controlled Burn if it looks like it might be a dicey pull, Dire Need and Adamant if it turned out to be in fact a dicey pull, try to find a rotation that's both pip- and power-positive, don't forget your on-defeat skills, and whango.
So, Bikk, out of curiosity, do you have anything to add to this discussion other than "I was the first 60 in TBS, call me when LotRO gets an endgame"? I mean, I guess we could apologize that you find a game we all enjoy boring...
You seem to know... WHAT THE FUCK DOES PIP *insert here* mean on champ legacies?
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I said almost. But yeah, I don't die much playing my champ. Clobber anything that starts a green induction (indicating heal), use Controlled Burn if it looks like it might be a dicey pull, Dire Need and Adamant if it turned out to be in fact a dicey pull, try to find a rotation that's both pip- and power-positive, don't forget your on-defeat skills, and whango.
So, Bikk, out of curiosity, do you have anything to add to this discussion other than "I was the first 60 in TBS, call me when LotRO gets an endgame"? I mean, I guess we could apologize that you find a game we all enjoy boring...
You seem to know... WHAT THE FUCK DOES PIP *insert here* mean on champ legacies?
Fervour pips? Champs gain fervour (up to 5) by either being in combat in a particular stance, or by using particular attacks. They then use that fervour to unleash bigger and nastier attacks. The legacies improve that pip-generation.
Fervour pips? Champs gain fervour (up to 5) by either being in combat in a particular stance, or by using particular attacks. They then use that fervour to unleash bigger and nastier attacks. The legacies improve that pip-generation.
Ahhh SO MUCH SENSE MADE! They are usually for glory/ardour and my wife and I were perplexed as I had never heard that.
Also does anyone else think that the session play in volume 2 book 3 is the greatest thing ever? The guardian one bores you to tears, where as the champ you are blowing a horn and knocking dudes around... MORE OF THAT PLZ!
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So, every class is great solo, just so you know.
Hunter: Another "I will kill you before you kill me" class. Plus, since hunters are ranged dps, they usually end up being "I will kill you before you even touch me". Toss in a couple CC-ish abilities, and there you go.
Yep. Against an even-level regular mob, if you start combat at the edge of ranged limit and it makes it into melee range, you've probably done something wrong (or been unlucky and had multiple misses). It's hard not to enjoy being a hunter, although it can be a challenge in densely populated areas. With proper trapping and pulling, most 1-v-2's become sequential 1-v-1's, and while the second fight will generally involve some melee action, it seems to me that LOTRO hunters fare better in melee than do their WoW counterparts (no "dead zone", for one thing). Also, they do have an "oh shit" miracle escape button, but I always forget to use it.
I'd take exception to every class being great solo. Soloing a captain is a chore. The combination of the stupid pet with the laughable damage, your own damage being subpar, and relatively low mitigation/self healing just makes it not fun.
Yeah, sometimes Last Stand can give you that little bit of oomph you need to take down a nasty quest mob, but that's the thing... you need Last Stand to do that, where a Warden or Guardian or Minstrel can chain pull the sort of mobs you can take once every 20 minutes as a Captain. But it's not like you make up for it with damage or healing.
LotRO's got some really cool classes. The Captain ain't one of 'em. And while a Captain can solo, it's pretty much the bottom of the heap, and not even in the same realm as a Minstrel or a Warden.
It's true what you say; my captain was far and away the most painful of my characters to level, solo. He's also the one that could reliably take down the elite flake droppers in Lorien before hitting 60. But yeah, I don't think I'd recommend a captain be anyone's first class.
That said, if you ever decide to do any grouping, it's probably second only to minstrel in terms of ease of getting into groups. Every fellowship is better with a captain.
Hunters are a blast to play, but I did my first instance run (Great Barrows) the other day, and the fellowship was 4 hunters, a runekeeper, and me (loremaster).
That's why I don't play my hunter.
I was about to say -- isn't like 90% of the game hunters?
It's true what you say; my captain was far and away the most painful of my characters to level, solo. He's also the one that could reliably take down the elite flake droppers in Lorien before hitting 60. But yeah, I don't think I'd recommend a captain be anyone's first class.
That said, if you ever decide to do any grouping, it's probably second only to minstrel in terms of ease of getting into groups. Every fellowship is better with a captain.
LM's are also an easy group class. Debuffs, cc, and power battery. You are everyones friend.
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I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I always felt that the utility that Captains bring to a group is vastly overrated. And this is coming from someone with a level 60 captain.
What does a Captain bring?
A whopping ~5% crit or parry or ~60 ICPR (depending on LI).
Some truly mock-worthy healing.
A 5% group HP buff
Fairly minor AGI/STR buff or fairly minor ICPR or a fairly sizable HP buff w/ +1 hope to the whole team.
It just doesn't feel like much. All those buffs on every teammate... still seems like it'd just be more effective to add a LM, Minstrel, or RK.
Granted, they're tops at turning what would be a wipe into a victory. Few things in any MMO can make a player feel as badass and hitting Last Stand and then getting two Minstrels and a Guardian back on their feet while you tank the boss.
But on the whole, the buffs feel ineffectual (and really pale in comparison to what's available on LIs), and the class really felt hamstrung - to me, at least - by the inability to use your terrible heal on yourself, an entire skill tree committed to that wretchedly awful pet, and the lack of interesting combat abilities (or, in the case of Valiant Strike, the uber-retarded cooldown time on it).
I only gripe because LotRO's a pretty sweet game, and every time I think about coming back, I remember my main is a Captain and instantly lose my desire to do so.
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GlorntI'm the Bob Ross of Wombats.And I just had a "happy accident"... in my pants!Registered Userregular
I only gripe because LotRO's a pretty sweet game, and every time I think about coming back, I remember my main is a Captain and instantly lose my desire to do so.
Create a new character and make him your main. If you really go at it, you can probably go from level 1-20 in a weekend (or at least in a long weekend, for sure), then head out to the New and Improved Lone Lands and proceed from there.
Captains have Oathbreakers. Oh and none of the captains in my kin use their pets, they all just plant banners and call it a day. Only now that the captains are leveling again I see some of their pets again, mostly the ghosts.
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Right on both counts -- after my apparently abnormally long update for the SoM update, I started a brand new Captain late on 12/02, played only sparingly during the week (not at all on the 4th), and last night made it to level 20 (with Undying title, despite a couple of very close calls at lvls 18/19 thanks to poor control of my herald -- how do you call him back from a mistaken attack command, anyway? Is it just a toggle?). In particular, getting from 1-10 is almost ridiculously easy and quick now -- you'll probably be leaving the intro area at 8 or 9, possibly even 10 if you fiddle around a bit and end up doing a lot of extra combat (I think my Captain hit 10 on the 1st or 2nd quest outside Archet).
My minstrel is at 25 now, and Warspeech definitely helps solo work, but remember to take it off if you're going into healer mode. Also, I think there's a brief debuff upon deactivating it, so it's probably not something to toggle during combat.
Glorntisms
If you think champs have a lot of buttons fucking Loremasters are the kings of "And here's another ability..." Love mine but for gods sake madness!
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We clear all current content in WoW in 4 hours on Wednesday nights. The LOTRO "endgame" can be cleared in a similar amount of time. This is very boring. I am not an alt-holic. LOTRO is just as grindy as WoW when you have 6 days a week with no endgame.
If you're not going to have an alt brigade, Explorer is the way to go for tradeskills -- as Aldo said, it's good for making money. The crafting professions all create some useful items, but I've found that scholar, cook and farmer can be a pain for not much gain in terms of getting to a level where they start to pay off.
As for the class, hunters can kill super-quick, and with good trapping can handle 2-3 mobs without much trouble, depending on how fast you can mow down your first non-trapped foe. Wardens are fun once you get used to the gambit system (think AoC combat, but not as clunky), Guardians are your traditional tank class, good for taking on gangs, Champions can also handle multiple mobs nicely. Depending on how casual your casual is, you might want to pass on LoreMaster or Captain (pet classes -- if you're used to a WoW hunter, these pets are not as sturdy or as good at holding aggro from my experience), and RuneKeeper might require more attention, being a squishy class, although it is pretty interesting.
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I'm not understanding they have a similar clear time as the main mmo competitor but one has an end game and the other does not?
I'm really at a loss here.
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LOTRO pets are not WoW pets. They are meant as an additional damager, but not the whole show. Surprising that different games use different mechanics...
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The main reason I didnt start a Burg was I was unsure about doing stuff solo. I'll have to roll one up
They are great solo, you debuff your targets, have a couple evasion perks you can pop (one is dependent on you getting stunned and heals on top of the evasion, the other is just flat out evasion not on the same cool down). And you can heal yourself and stun the mobs at well. Burgs are one of the premier level solo classes imho.
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Guardian: Heavy armor + heavy shield + high morale = really hard to kill. Early levels takes on multiple mobs by just mitigating more damage than other classes can, later levels can trait and use LIs to improve AoE abilities.
Champion: Speaking of AoE abilities... Champs are the kings of AoE damage in this game, meaning they can handle multi-mob pulls better than any other class. They are, however, surprisingly squishy for a heavy armor wearer, since Fervour stance keeps them from parrying or evading attacks. So every encounter is a race to kill what you're fighting before it kills you. Don't worry though. Champs win almost every time.
Captain: Lack of AoE skills or ranged skills make them a chore to kill things with, but they get this skill called Last Stand which means that for 10 seconds (longer if traited), you can't die. Usually long enough to finishing killing the quest mob/elite/whatever or to run away.
Hunter: Another "I will kill you before you kill me" class. Plus, since hunters are ranged dps, they usually end up being "I will kill you before you even touch me". Toss in a couple CC-ish abilities, and there you go.
Burgler: See previous posts. Note that some of their CC abilities just work on humanoid mobs. They don't handle beasts quite as well. Still ridiculously good soloers, though.
Minstrel: Can trait into medium armor and is one of two classes that can reliably self-heal. Has issues dealing with more than one mob at a time until you get a couple warspeech AoE skills, and can't heal and run at the same time, but once you get your in-combat power regen up, you can solo almost any single target, so long as you've got the time.
Warden: The other reliable self-healer. Desgined as a solo class, these guys can wade into a group of 10 mobs and end the fight at full morale. (And probably no power.) Lots of skills that heal themselves, drain enemy morale, buff their defenses, and every once in a while, they might actually do some damage. They are the slowest killers, but they make up for it by never dying.
Loremaster: The kings of CC. Light armor, not so great on the dps side of things, but their sleeves are full of tricks. Back in the day, a couple of raid bosses got buffed for no other reason than because Loremasters could solo them.
Runekeeper: Possibly the best single target healer in the game. Possibly the best single target dps in the game. Only problem is, can't do both at once. With practice, though, you can go from one to the other pretty quickly, but that gets power-intensive quickly. Nevertheless, if you know what you're doing (i.e. if you can't heal through the damage, kite and use lightning skills), the only times you should die are because you pulled too many mobs.
Every few months I remember I own a lifetime sub and fire the game up, realize I'm completely and utterly lost, and go back to WOW, heh.
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Every time?
Eeeeeeeh. That's debatable.
Two mobs is probably my max. Three even-levels is going to be risky. I've found that I've *got* the damage, but I'll either run out of power and not be able to put out enough damage (if I'm not running Fervour), or it'll be really close and die when they're really low if I've got Fervour up.
The AoE stuns like Sound the Attack and the Horn are really what's going to save your life. If a mob ends up healing itself, though, you're cooked. You just don't have enough time to DPS them down *again* before you run out of life.
AoE's work vastly better, though, when you're duoing with someone that can keep aggro off yourself.
Adamant seems to help a bit, but it's on a long cooldown and you can't rely on it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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There are other differences as well -- while they won't serve as a tank and turn you into a full-time two-man group, they somewhat make up for this (for captain's herald, don't remember for sure if LM pets have this) by being able to heal you (it takes away from their own morale, but if they don't have the aggro, it doesn't matter, and if you're close to the end of a fight, you may need to sacrifice him anyway). When fighting two mobs, one thing that works pretty well is to fire off an opening attack from ranged distance against one, send pet against it, then switch to the other mob (make sure you turn off auto-assist, or the pet will switch along with you). This turns it into two 1-v-1 fights, and if you're fighting near-level mobs, even if your pet bites it, you should be able to finish off the pair; generally one of you will finish first and then be able to switch to help finish off the second. With a captain, this also works against 3, with the captain taking on two and the herald the third, especially once you hit 20 and get heavy armour.
My main point was that the pet classes in LOTRO require more management than the more traditional classes (or WoW hunters -- our pets' specials don't fire off automatically), and may not be as suited to a "casual" player. In addition to managing your pet, you need to make sure to keep up all your buffs and opponent debuffs, while continuing to wail away at the baddies, and as far as I know, we don't have settings or mods to flash messages on the screen when one of these is about to expire.
Regarding burglars, that's the class I have the least experience with, so I leave it to others to answer for them. My main question would be how they fare against multiple mobs. Just don't think of them as WoW rogues. They have similarities, but I don't think there's an exact correspondence between any of the classes (LM / warlock might be the closest, but I never played a warlock in WoW).
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LM pets heal their owners through flanking (you get extra damage from an attack and like 500 morale, birds flank best).
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It took us 4 months of raiding 3 nights a week to condense our end game content to 1 night. I like progression raiding and the working that leads up to putting end game content on farm. This does not exist in LOTRO and is why I quit within days of hitting 60.
Sword and board for healing (extra stats is what I usually hear) 2 handers for dps/leveling. Though with good stats/legacies on a 2 hander you could in theory heal from that.
Bikkstah when people talk about Wow raids like a job/night school, do you think that makes it sound appealing to those of us who prefer lotro casual approach? You don't like that, that's cool theres a very popular game that does exactly what you want.
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That's why I don't play my hunter.
I swear whatever class you play its like when you buy a car, YOU ALWAYS SEE THAT CLASS!
I'm convinced if I did a minnie I'd be in group of 5 minnies all the time.
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On my initial character in that very popular game, I followed a friend into one of those hardcore raiding guilds and left it within the week -- if I wanted a second job, I'd get one that pays real money.
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I said almost. But yeah, I don't die much playing my champ. Clobber anything that starts a green induction (indicating heal), use Controlled Burn if it looks like it might be a dicey pull, Dire Need and Adamant if it turned out to be in fact a dicey pull, try to find a rotation that's both pip- and power-positive, don't forget your on-defeat skills, and whango.
So, Bikk, out of curiosity, do you have anything to add to this discussion other than "I was the first 60 in TBS, call me when LotRO gets an endgame"? I mean, I guess we could apologize that you find a game we all enjoy boring...
One can play a lot and still be casual, for me I just like being able to do what I want to do. Wow raiding that I was involved with always ended up being job like. Have to rush home make the raid, screw eating etc. Everyone always claims to be able to raid "casually" I've never fucking seen it and I played wow for 3 years.
LOTRO seems to do fine with their style, shit my server is having lag issues and I haven't seen that in a while, and I'm seeing more people in zones that used to be empty.
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You seem to know... WHAT THE FUCK DOES PIP *insert here* mean on champ legacies?
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Fervour pips? Champs gain fervour (up to 5) by either being in combat in a particular stance, or by using particular attacks. They then use that fervour to unleash bigger and nastier attacks. The legacies improve that pip-generation.
Ahhh SO MUCH SENSE MADE! They are usually for glory/ardour and my wife and I were perplexed as I had never heard that.
Also does anyone else think that the session play in volume 2 book 3 is the greatest thing ever? The guardian one bores you to tears, where as the champ you are blowing a horn and knocking dudes around... MORE OF THAT PLZ!
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I'd take exception to every class being great solo. Soloing a captain is a chore. The combination of the stupid pet with the laughable damage, your own damage being subpar, and relatively low mitigation/self healing just makes it not fun.
Yeah, sometimes Last Stand can give you that little bit of oomph you need to take down a nasty quest mob, but that's the thing... you need Last Stand to do that, where a Warden or Guardian or Minstrel can chain pull the sort of mobs you can take once every 20 minutes as a Captain. But it's not like you make up for it with damage or healing.
LotRO's got some really cool classes. The Captain ain't one of 'em. And while a Captain can solo, it's pretty much the bottom of the heap, and not even in the same realm as a Minstrel or a Warden.
That said, if you ever decide to do any grouping, it's probably second only to minstrel in terms of ease of getting into groups. Every fellowship is better with a captain.
I was about to say -- isn't like 90% of the game hunters?
LM's are also an easy group class. Debuffs, cc, and power battery. You are everyones friend.
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What does a Captain bring?
It just doesn't feel like much. All those buffs on every teammate... still seems like it'd just be more effective to add a LM, Minstrel, or RK.
Granted, they're tops at turning what would be a wipe into a victory. Few things in any MMO can make a player feel as badass and hitting Last Stand and then getting two Minstrels and a Guardian back on their feet while you tank the boss.
But on the whole, the buffs feel ineffectual (and really pale in comparison to what's available on LIs), and the class really felt hamstrung - to me, at least - by the inability to use your terrible heal on yourself, an entire skill tree committed to that wretchedly awful pet, and the lack of interesting combat abilities (or, in the case of Valiant Strike, the uber-retarded cooldown time on it).
I only gripe because LotRO's a pretty sweet game, and every time I think about coming back, I remember my main is a Captain and instantly lose my desire to do so.
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