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    InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The little blonde kid is to the left of the redhead kid ducking on the ground in the panel right before the basilisk attacks. For whatever reason, the artist decided to use a kid that looks almost exactly like him for a statue in that panel.

    Edit: He's on the right to the reader.

    Invisible on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Invisible wrote: »
    The little blonde kid is to the left of the redhead kid ducking on the ground in the panel right before the basilisk attacks. For whatever reason, the artist decided to use a kid that looks almost exactly like him for a statue in that panel.

    I think you're right.

    But it could also be some sort of strange flower or similar, because either way is just as strong an argument (there isn't really conclusive evidence here). Because that kid doesn't look entirely correct to actually be a kid.

    Edit: I am also open to him being decapitated somehow.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Duki wrote: »
    cytorak wrote: »
    I thought he was apologizing to the unpetrified boys about the lack of basilisk to be found. Like, "Sorry we didn't see any bears today, kids."

    Also, his statement "This foul day may yet find you earn your badges", hurts my head grammatically.

    Yeah I thought that was obvious. The sky is clearly changing in colour; they've been walking around all day and haven't found the beastie. Pretty simple comic to understand imo.

    If you note though when the sky is changing colour you'll notice that the sky is blue in the 3rd panel and then yellow and then red. If we take this theory to heart, then how long were they standing around there with the basilisk literally right next to them without anyone noticing?

    This makes lots more problems, because how long was it between panel 3 and panel 4, because my assumption on panel 4 is that the little blonde kid turns around and spots the basilisks tail first: hence getting turned to stone (or maybe not, I can't tell) shortly after.

    I don't think your sky changing colour = passage of time idea is right basically. So it's not that simple at all, unless you want to explain why the basilisk sits there without being noticed for so long or before doing anything. Alternatively, how the master fails to notice it when it's actually pretty exposed in the position it is in (just next to that statue).

    Edit: If you haven't noticed, the Basilisks tail is in the lower bottom left hand corner and sort of snakes up. It actually looks like it's right in front of blondie at this point. He's clearly a bit special if he noticed the damn tail and didn't say anything; another aspect I dislike (as the wonky perspective makes it look like the basilisks tail should be in his line of sight from where he's standing looking at the statue).

    Edit: The simple point here is that he could be apologizing for screwing up (panel 3) or he could be apologizing to the stone kid while everyone around him is literally shitting themselves; which makes him look like the Scoutmaster who rode the short bus into work that day. This is (now you've made me think about it more) the aspect I hate most. The story and threadline dropped in the first comic was "Here are boys who did not heed their master" and now we're seeing that the master is pretty incompetent; unable to spot a large bright red creature that is only feet from them (Panel 3) that is he actively looking for. I don't really like that from a storytelling mechanic, but that does lead me to suggest it's not a "sorry boys, I didn't find anything" and more him apologizing to them for being incompetent. It doesn't reflect well on his character being a teacher/student type aspect.

    They're not standing there, they're still walking around looking for it, and it's stalking them (and is unseen). So panels 3, 4 (yellow sky), and 5 (red sky) show passage of time. So yeah, he's apologizing because he promised them they'd get their badge and then as the day is ending it doesn't seem like they will.

    I thought little blonde kid was just being a pussy, thinking he saw the basilisk and shitting himself, without anyone realising that he really did see the thing. Progressively he's getting more and more scared as they walk through the forest.

    And that's the blonde kid with his hands on his head behind red haired kid, and why he's lying there being a baby. Because he got more and more scared.

    And the basilisks tail being connected in between panel five and six is just an artistic flourish, it's not actually just sitting there.

    Y'all over analysed this to shit imo.

    Duki on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Duki wrote: »
    They're not standing there

    Evidence? Panel 4 would suggest the same positions they are in at panel 3, with the kid turning around to see the Basilisk from examining the statue (Panel 3).
    they're still walking around looking for it, and it's stalking them. So panels 3, 4 (yellow sky), and 5 (red sky) show passage of time.

    What? I disagree entirely with that. Panel 4 he spots the creature (hence the surprised look) and panel 5 shows it rearing up behind the scout master to attack.

    How much time are you proposing passes between panel 4 when the blonde kid spots it and panel 5? I would suggest this isn't time passing at all, instead the skies changing colour is being used as an effect from the author to show an increase of tension or threat.

    And this just doesn't reflect well on the master at all by this point, seeing as he should be acutely aware the creature is around and should know how to track/spot it.

    This is the entire point of the comic.

    Also, why would the scout master take most of an entire day to respond (Panel 3 -> Panel 4). That simply fails to make sense unless the order of events from panel 3 -> Panel 4 is much quicker than a long period of time progressing. Again presenting another fatal problem to your theory.
    And the basilisks tail being connected in between panel five and six is just an artistic flourish, it's not actually just sitting there.

    I disagree, because it's the wrong panel. Look at panel 3. That's where it is. This is another problem with the idea this is a long passage of time, unless they have just failed completely to make those last 3 panels make any sense, which I would actually agree with to be honest.
    Y'all over analysed this to shit imo.

    That's fair enough, but I don't think you've supported your own argument at all well. Your argument this is showing a passage of time I feel is incorrect, because you have not given an explanation that makes as much sense as the order of events from panel 3-6 being rather quick.

    But again, if it is a passage of time it just makes me think it's worse because it makes it even more incoherent as little blond kid has spotted it in panel 4. What on earth is he doing between panel 4 and it sneaking up on the master in panel 5? Shouldn't he have mentioned the thing being there if indeed the time has been passing?

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    wrote:
    Evidence? Panel 4 would suggest the same positions they are in at panel 3, with the kid turning around to see the Basilisk from examining the statue (Panel 3).

    Well the evidence is that throughout the first comic, and the first three panels at least of this one, they're walking in a line. Their positions in the line are the same yeah, but that's because they march in a line. They've done so throughout the whole thing, I thought it made sense that they just carried on walking. ANd I mean they're walking past different statues, the ground is changing colour, the trees are more sparse etc etc. Made sense to me that they're walking.

    Either way still works fine with the time passing idea though. Doesn't matter whether they were walking or not.
    What? I disagree entirely with that. Panel 4 he spots the creature (hence the surprised look) and panel 5 shows it rearing up behind the scout master to attack.

    I interpreted it as just a fright, he doesn't necessarily see the thing at all. I mean, what the fuck, the comic barely implies that. He'd yell out HEY LOOK IT'S A FUCKING BASILISK GUYS HOLY SHIT. No one else seems to have noticed shit, but he's looking around all scared and shit in the first three panels already. He's just the pussy of the group, like how every single movie with kids has the fat guy. the brave guy, the pussy etc. If he saw it he wouldn't just sit there tbh. That's stupid.

    And he already is scared in panel 3, where the tail just passed them and he's looking at where it used to be all scared and shit. So he's getting more and more progressively scared throughout the first comic, and this entire comic, culminating in him not being able to take it anymore.
    How much time are you proposing passes between panel 4 when the blonde kid spots it and panel 5? I would suggest this isn't time passing at all, instead the skies changing colour is being used as an effect from the author to show an increase of tension or threat.

    Blue = morning
    Yellow = afternoon
    Pink = sunset
    And this just doesn't reflect well on the master at all by this point, seeing as he should be acutely aware the creature is around and should know how to track/spot it.

    This is the entire point of the comic.

    Well I mean, you decided this for no reason. All the first comic did was have the scout master build himself up as some awesome guy, without actually showing us that he's awesome at all. When I read the original, the first thing I thought was that he was done for and the kids would have to fend for themselves. Like every other story like this, ever. Kids will have to fend for themselves. That's just how it is.
    I disagree.

    I don't :3
    That's fair enough, but I don't think you've supported your own argument at all well. Your argument this is showing a passage of time I feel is incorrect, because you have not given an explanation that makes as much sense as the order of events from panel 3-6 being rather quick.

    But again, if it is a passage of time it just makes me think it's worse because it makes it even more incoherent as little blond kid has spotted it in panel 4. What on earth is he doing between panel 4 and it sneaking up on the master in panel 5? Shouldn't he have mentioned the thing being there if indeed the time has been passing?

    Well my point is I don't think anyone ever actually saw the thing. Blonde kid thought he did though. So he was scared. Your idea of him seeing it in panel 4, allowing conversation to go on, and then not saying anything, and no one else noticing shit, and the scout master being hit makes less sense for the reason you and I just outlined. Fuck was he doing? Yell or some shit son, come on now.

    Where as him not properly seeing it, but thinking he saw it and just being a wuss gets rid of the problem of him not saying a damn thing entirely.

    So the main issues we have are..

    Walking : Standing
    Time passing : Quick succession
    Did see it: Didn't see it (but thought he did so he's afraiiiiid)

    You can switch and choose between those as you like tbh, the only two that aren't compatible are time passing and kid seeing it.

    So whether he saw it or not is the linchpin imo.

    Also everyone please note the now apparent comedy of accusing the rest of you of over analysing this comic.

    Duki on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Duki wrote: »
    wrote:
    Evidence? Panel 4 would suggest the same positions they are in at panel 3, with the kid turning around to see the Basilisk from examining the statue (Panel 3).

    Well the evidence is that throughout the first comic, and the first three panels at least of this one, they're walking in a line. Their positions in the line are the same yeah, but that's because they march in a line. They've done so throughout the whole thing, I thought it made sense that they just carried on walking. ANd I mean they're walking past different statues, the ground is changing colour, the trees are more sparse etc
    etc. Made sense to me that they're walking

    Except that by turning he would notice the creature (see Panel 3), hence why I think the completely opposite.
    I interpreted it as just a fright

    What is he frightened of? He's clearly seen people that have already been turned to stone, so there is only one explanation that makes sense: It's pretty obvious that he's seen the basilisk at this point.
    And he already is scared in panel 3, where the tail just passed them and he's looking at where it used to be all scared and shit.

    This is massively stretching, because in panel 3 he looks nervous but he is in fact looking at the statue. And again, if he had been looking at it why hasn't he said anything?
    Blue = morning
    Yellow = afternoon
    Pink = sunset

    Okay, why does it take the master several hours to respond to them between panels 3 and 4?

    I propose you're incorrect and he's immediately responding to them after panel 3; meaning that panel 3 and 4 occur very rapidly after one another and no time passes.

    Otherwise can you coherently explain why it takes him until that afternoon to respond to the boys answers?
    Well I mean, you decided this for no reason.

    See comic 1.
    All the first comic did was have the scout master build himself up as some awesome guy, without actually showing us that he's awesome at all.

    I know, we never will see because he's been demoted to incompetent and inexperienced.
    Well my point is I don't think anyone ever actually saw the thing.

    Panel 4 is strong evidence against this and your explanation is incoherent to say the least with the evidence in the comic. It's around them by panel 3, are you suggesting it takes until that night to do anything and that he is going to fail to answer them for a period of several hours (panel 3 -> panel 4)?

    The evidence completely contradicts you from the comic itself and it's clearly all happening within a short time frame. Not a long period as you are suggesting.
    Fuck was he doing? Yell or some shit son, come on now.

    This is precisely the point. If he sees it in panel 4 and the events are rapid, it makes sense. He has clearly seen it in panel 4; I feel this is indisputable BTW as you can't coherently explain to me why the master is going to be taking a period of several hours to respond to them about what they've said about the basilisk. The dialogue ALSO suggests a quick period between those panels.
    So whether he saw it or not is the linchpin imo.

    It would appear almost conclusive that he did in panel 4. Especially because panel 3 establishes where the basilisk is; the kid is at the end of the formation and nearest to the creature (from panel 3). Then he sees it in panel 4 and the master ends up being taken out by it in panel 5 as it snakes around to give him a whack around the head. This is also because the dialogue is too continuous to suggest a long period of time; why does he get told the answers in the morning and spends until the afternoon before he responds to them?

    I'm sorry but your explanation makes zero sense at all.

    Edit: And if you're wondering I'm simply making the point that the comic is very unclear as to the order of events and how they are happening. I actually do think you could be right, but for the purposes of what I'm arguing here I'm just putting forward how unclear and incoherent the story telling in the comic actually is. The art style IMO doesn't help with this either (for example the Basilisk I didn't realise was in panel 3 until someone pointed it out to me, because it's highly washed out compared to the background/trees).

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, the dialogue does torpedo the the time passing idea somewhat. Completely disregarded it second time I read through, heh.

    But him not saying anything still fucks both explanations.

    A fair amount of time passes between panels four and six in either case. As the scout master is talking, the kid, if he saw it in panel four, could have yelled about a billion times, between seeing it, the scout master yapping on, and finally the scout master being hit. If time is passing, he could have yelled about two hundred billion times. Either way, that little shit should have been yelling.

    It's easier to attribute this to poor writing obviously, so no wonder it's not making sense.

    But knowing G&T (who I assume still wrote this and Becky just painted?) the scout master ends up being the villain, purposefully turning kids into stone, but the basilisk has a change of heart and the kids befriend the Basilisk or some shit.

    Duki on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Duki wrote: »
    Yeah, the dialogue does torpedo the the time passing idea somewhat. Completely disregarded it second time I read through, heh.

    Well yeah that's the problem. Like I understand what you're saying and it does make sense, but the dialogue shows it must be a rapid period of time.

    Or he's just, you know silently brooding all afternoon until he says "That's the right of it".

    It is indeed incoherent either way.
    But knowing G&T (who I assume still wrote this and Becky just painted?) the scout master ends up being the villain, purposefully turning kids into stone, but the basilisk has a change of heart and the kids befriend the Basilisk or some shit.

    Tycho did not write this and it is in fact a different writer.

    A writer who works on Heroes.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So you're saying anyone who is dead will be alive next strip?

    cooljammer00 on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So you're saying anyone who is dead will be alive next strip?

    The blond haired kid will have healing blood that turns stone into flesh, saving all the kids and the master who was turned into stone.

    That's what I'm saying.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    A writer who works on Heroes.

    Sounds perfectly plausible, then.

    The scoutmaster turning out to be the villain was my first inclination after having read the strip, but it really is too vague and incoherent to extrapolate from. I'm not dismissing them yet, but thumbs down on this.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    TalonSETalonSE Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I personally think the wrong person is taking all the heat for this confusion. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the artist create the scenes as they are written? All I know about this writer guy is that he works on Heroes, which is hardly reassuring, to me it's entirely possible that this dude has no clue how to properly write a comic script so it makes visual sense and the artist did the best she could with what she was given. I mean honestly, the dialog itself has enough issues to cause confusion and we know the artist wasn't responsible for that...

    TalonSE on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would hate it if the scoutmaster turned out to be a villain, as it would completely undermine the paternal touches and characterization T&G put in when making the first strip. If you listened to the podcast, they spent a fair amount of time just fleshing him out so he wasn't just a generic Aragorn clone.

    I don't think he betrayed them, and if it turns out he has, that would be my biggest disappointment from this whole thing.

    Tofystedeth on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I hadn't even considered that possibility until now.

    Argh.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    today's comic's up

    Antimatter on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Witchcraft. I'm not seeing it even on reloads.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    20090703.jpg

    Antimatter on
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    JokermanJokerman Everything EverywhereRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So wait....He was working with the basalisk?

    Jokerman on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Thanks.

    I think it's pretty clear the apology is for the fact the adult is standing by...because the boys must overcome this threat themselves in order to learn anything.

    Still not fond of the art for this application.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
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    EndomaticEndomatic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't feel the style is something I'd regularly like to view, but it's a nice change and she certainly is talented. The colors are vibrant.

    I wasn't a fan of the first comic, but today's made me a fan. The last panel makes me insanely curious.

    Endomatic on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The scoutmaster looks sad as hell, like he doesn't believe the kids can overcome the basilisk.

    Also, it must be incredibly hard to depict people running with their eyes closed in that perspective. I mean, I got it, but it looks awkward.

    Awesome art though.

    Edit: "What Men Must Know, a Boy Must Learn."

    The core of the Lookouts. These kids have to do it themselves.

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Okay, this one looks much better.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I am crossposting with SE++, but I'm not a native there, so...

    I wonder if the eyepatch is the key.. With it, you can see the basilisk, but not directly because half of your vision is obscured! Maybe that's the trick!

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Athenor wrote: »
    I am crossposting with SE++, but I'm not a native there, so...

    I wonder if the eyepatch is the key.. With it, you can see the basilisk, but not directly because half of your vision is obscured! Maybe that's the trick!

    If that's the trick to one monster then what other body parts must you sacrifice for others?

    I like the idea of the lookouts, but I'm not totally feeling this art style like many have said. If there was novel of the lookouts I would give it a spin.

    tallgeeze on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I still can't stand their inconsistent use of perspective with this particular art-style but this does seem to confirm the "evil scoutmaster" theory. It was much better than the last one.

    Aegeri on
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    MattieMattie Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Dick noses running rampant in that one.

    Mattie on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't think he's being evil. He looks sad. It may be part of the job to stand back and force the boys to take care of this themselves.

    Quid on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    I don't think he's being evil. He looks sad. It may be part of the job to stand back and force the boys to take care of this themselves.

    I am being somewhat hyperbolic with the whole "Scoutmaster is evil" thing, but honestly he seems a bit of a douchebag to lead kids through the forest to their deaths.

    It does mean however that we now know what he was apologizing for.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    cytorakcytorak Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The Scoutmaster looks like Droopy the Dog with Down's Syndrome in the last panel of today's comic. His dialogue becomes even funnier if you picture Droopy saying it.

    cytorak on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If you have to analyze a comic this much it's a bad comic

    nexuscrawler on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Or it's just not in a style that is for you.

    I accepted long ago, which I suppose means yesterday, that this is just not for me.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Dude's not evil.

    "What men must know, a boy must learn."


    Tough love.

    OmnomnomPancake on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I really don't like the art in this one. The overuse of red just makes everyone look diseased, not to mention the penis noses and weird perspectives. Also what is up with the scoutmaster's face in that last panel

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Cherrn wrote: »
    I really don't like the art in this one. The overuse of red just makes everyone look diseased, not to mention the penis noses and weird perspectives. Also what is up with the scoutmaster's face in that last panel

    He's upset and nervous?

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    While looking vaguely clownish.

    Edit: Raggedy Andy is actually the image I got. Everybody seems to have had an experimental bout with some rouge.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    It looks like he's melting. For a second there I assumed he was shapeshifting.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Christ.

    Someone does hard work as a favor to a fan and colleague and your response is to call them a talentless asshole. No class whatsoever.

    I like the artwork and I'm glad they brought in a guest, it's interesting to see this story continued as well as see a different artist's perspective. I hope they do something more with the Lookouts.

    durandal4532 on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Christ.

    Someone does hard work as a favor to a fan and colleague and your response is to call them a talentless asshole. No class whatsoever.

    I like the artwork and I'm glad they brought in a guest, it's interesting to see this story continued as well as see a different artist's perspective. I hope they do something more with the Lookouts.

    Hey duranal, I made you a shit sandwich. What, you don't like it? But I made it for you.

    That being said, I don't think this comic is a shit sandwich... it's more like being brought a delicious burger when you ordered a filet mignon. I think it's still very good, just not what I was expecting, and it forces me to think about what might have been.

    Sentry on
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    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I agree with the criticisms of Wednesday's comic, but I feel like you guys are nitpicking when it comes to today's.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Christ.

    Someone does hard work as a favor to a fan and colleague and your response is to call them a talentless asshole. No class whatsoever.

    I don't recall ever saying that. I can go back and check if you'd like.

    It's not that I mind guest artists/writers. I don't think the quality has been very high so far, but so what? It's not that big of a deal. I didn't care much for the original Lookouts strip anyway.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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