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Lookouts Guest Artists

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    S. wrote: »
    Well I liked it.

    The art style really grew on me on after multiple viewings and I thought it worked wonderfully.

    comics are a pretty open format.

    Sadly confusing is hardly an element you ever want in one. A comic you have to read half a dozen times to make sense out of is really a poor comic.

    That's my biggest issue, I don't mind going back to a comic and catching things I didn't before. I despise having to search over a comic just to understand the primary story its attempting to tell.

    Preacher on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think a good comic should do both. It's primary message should be easy and obvious but the further you examine things the more you get out of it.

    PA is great at doing this with things like facial expressions and stuff

    nexuscrawler on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think a good comic should do both. It's primary message should be easy and obvious but the further you examine things the more you get out of it.

    PA is great at doing this with things like facial expressions and stuff

    Yeah, I also didn't like the way she did mouths. I dunno I think it really looks poor in comparison to the original character concepts. Also it may have been the PA guys used up all the words in the first comic but there has been like 4 lines of dialogue in 3 comics.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    matisyahumatisyahu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The only thing Lookouts had going for it in the first place was the logo. The treatment of concept (the concept being "basilisk jumps some kids") adds next to nothing to the concept itself. By this I mean you could pretty much imagine the entire thing if you just imagined a basilisk jumping some kids. It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it. Maybe G&T would have taken it in a different direction but the original strip was so infantile and banal, there wasn't much room for growth.

    In summary: Automata rules, Lookouts drools!!

    matisyahu on
    i dont even like matisyahu and i dont know why i picked this username
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    matisyahu wrote: »
    The only thing Lookouts had going for it in the first place was the logo. The treatment of concept (the concept being "basilisk jumps some kids") adds next to nothing to the concept itself. By this I mean you could pretty much imagine the entire thing if you just imagined a basilisk jumping some kids. It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it. Maybe G&T would have taken it in a different direction but the original strip was so infantile and banal, there wasn't much room for growth.

    In summary: Automata rules, Lookouts drools!!

    Robot (detective) gets looked down upon by humans.

    Hey, look! I can simplify things too!

    Burtletoy on
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    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do feel really bad for the artist/writer. The artist, at least, is clearly talented, and I do like her work. She has a beautiful style. She just shouldn't have agreed to point her talents here.

    I sort of imagine there was a mutual admiration that got in the way. Gabe loved the artist, and the artist loved PA, and neither of them realized what a piss-poor match they made on this particular project.
    I don't even think it's that, as much as it is they did the original lookouts comic, and through all the voting and winning it was assumed they'd be doing the rest of it. Then right before, we get surprised with a guest artist and writer. It would've been one thing if they'd said "We're taking a vacation for a week, we'll have a guest artist doing a strip", but instead it was like the guy that does Beetle Bailey suddenly drawing Calvin and Hobbes with no warning.

    matt has a problem on
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    matisyahumatisyahu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    matisyahu wrote: »
    The only thing Lookouts had going for it in the first place was the logo. The treatment of concept (the concept being "basilisk jumps some kids") adds next to nothing to the concept itself. By this I mean you could pretty much imagine the entire thing if you just imagined a basilisk jumping some kids. It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it. Maybe G&T would have taken it in a different direction but the original strip was so infantile and banal, there wasn't much room for growth.

    In summary: Automata rules, Lookouts drools!!

    Robot (detective) gets looked down upon by humans.

    Hey, look! I can simplify things too!

    But apparently you don't know how to read, specifically the part where I said "It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it.." Automata has potential for intrigue/drama/suspense. Lookouts could only ever be a fight scene.

    matisyahu on
    i dont even like matisyahu and i dont know why i picked this username
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    How could there not be drama/intrigue/suspense in The Lookouts? Is it because you don't like the Fantasy genere? I've read numerous fantasy books that contained all those devices. And they also had fight scenes.

    They created an entire fantasy world. What is that world lacking that makes it incapable of doing those rudimentary scenarios in your opinion?

    Burtletoy on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Also, the Basilisk breathes blue fire? Bwuh?

    It's likely that it has an old DnD ability to breathe a flesh to stone like burst. It's probably not fire in that case.

    Or at least I would assume so.

    And yeah, I really haven't enjoyed this at all. I'll say it again, the colouration and artstyle just aren't for me at all. I much preferred the artstyle or the first and the writing style seemed better. Also, this comic given the previous comic just fails to make sense. Was he waiting for the chicken thing to eat him? How did fatty and whatishis beak recover from being tossed by the basilisk to throw rocks so quick?

    I mean, come on.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    matisyahumatisyahu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that they were only going to do a short storyline, something like the PA Presents stuff. Gabe said he liked drawing it so much he wanted to do a graphic novel, but if all we're going to get is a 6-10 page bit of genre fiction, a story with two characters that are given a bit of personality and clearly delineated early on (Automata) is preferable to a story with 4 indistinguishable children and a man whose only interesting feature is an eyepatch, all talking in tortured syntax and nursery rhymes.

    matisyahu on
    i dont even like matisyahu and i dont know why i picked this username
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    InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    matisyahu wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    matisyahu wrote: »
    The only thing Lookouts had going for it in the first place was the logo. The treatment of concept (the concept being "basilisk jumps some kids") adds next to nothing to the concept itself. By this I mean you could pretty much imagine the entire thing if you just imagined a basilisk jumping some kids. It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it. Maybe G&T would have taken it in a different direction but the original strip was so infantile and banal, there wasn't much room for growth.

    In summary: Automata rules, Lookouts drools!!

    Robot (detective) gets looked down upon by humans.

    Hey, look! I can simplify things too!

    But apparently you don't know how to read, specifically the part where I said "It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it.." Automata has potential for intrigue/drama/suspense. Lookouts could only ever be a fight scene.

    You have a very small imagination then.

    Invisible on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    matisyahu wrote: »
    I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that they were only going to do a short storyline, something like the PA Presents stuff. Gabe said he liked drawing it so much he wanted to do a graphic novel, but if all we're going to get is a 6-10 page bit of genre fiction, a story with two characters that are given a bit of personality and clearly delineated early on (Automata) is preferable to a story with 4 indistinguishable children and a man whose only interesting feature is an eyepatch, all talking in tortured syntax and nursery rhymes.

    I heard they did a podcast that was filled with the flesh of the world.

    I don't listen to the podcasts, however, so I'm ignorant on this background detail. Even without it, I feel like they could still throw in some drama for this story, as you wanted. Something with, I don't know, possibly the scout master turning against the kids as was suggested by numerous people in this thread.

    Burtletoy on
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    matisyahumatisyahu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    He is wearing an eyepatch.

    matisyahu on
    i dont even like matisyahu and i dont know why i picked this username
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    matisyahu wrote: »
    I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that they were only going to do a short storyline, something like the PA Presents stuff. Gabe said he liked drawing it so much he wanted to do a graphic novel, but if all we're going to get is a 6-10 page bit of genre fiction, a story with two characters that are given a bit of personality and clearly delineated early on (Automata) is preferable to a story with 4 indistinguishable children and a man whose only interesting feature is an eyepatch, all talking in tortured syntax and nursery rhymes.

    I heard they did a podcast that was filled with the flesh of the world.

    I don't listen to the podcasts, however, so I'm ignorant on this background detail. Even without it, I feel like they could still throw in some drama for this story, as you wanted. Something with, I don't know, possibly the scout master turning against the kids as was suggested by numerous people in this thread.

    He makes absolutely no sense and comes off as almost monstrous in the second comic.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    The Great American NovelThe Great American Novel __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    1) Incompetent fucker is snuck up on by a basilisk while the children are not, gets tailswiped
    2) Fucker is out for the count, seriously he is just down and out
    3) Suddenly stands up, puts on his Dickens face and recites some dickshit
    4) Rocks happen
    5) The guy starts caring again, rushes a basilisk that really is having a hard time dealing with a couple rocks I mean damn
    6) Blindfolds basilisk with his cloak while still wearing his cloak (disclaimer: that may be a separate, green poncho attachment, it's hard to tell given the perspective)
    7) ... wanders off while some kids stab the shit out of it? Goddamn why are they climbing on top of it while stabbing it that's hella dangerous it probably weighs a ton and it's totally going to fall over at some point ideally

    I wouldn't call him monstrous but I reserve the right to describe the writing as such

    The Great American Novel on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2009
    I think a good comic should do both. It's primary message should be easy and obvious but the further you examine things the more you get out of it.

    This is true of pretty much any medium, I think.

    ElJeffe on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The interesting part of Lookouts should have been the kids learning shit.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    slacktronslacktron Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    1) Incompetent fucker is snuck up on by a basilisk while the children are not, gets tailswiped

    I don't know if he got snuck up on, as he renders an apology to his troop as the basilisk attacks, but he is certainly breaking his contract as set up on the initial page, where he states "(Basilisks) are wrong things, and I will show you how to put them right."

    I'm guessing that turning your back on your companions and getting your dumb ass tailswiped isn't in the Junior Woodchuck Monster Fighting Manual.

    Then again, perhaps the only way to "put them right" is to provide regular feedings of small children.

    slacktron on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2009
    matisyahu wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    matisyahu wrote: »
    The only thing Lookouts had going for it in the first place was the logo. The treatment of concept (the concept being "basilisk jumps some kids") adds next to nothing to the concept itself. By this I mean you could pretty much imagine the entire thing if you just imagined a basilisk jumping some kids. It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it. Maybe G&T would have taken it in a different direction but the original strip was so infantile and banal, there wasn't much room for growth.

    In summary: Automata rules, Lookouts drools!!

    Robot (detective) gets looked down upon by humans.

    Hey, look! I can simplify things too!

    But apparently you don't know how to read, specifically the part where I said "It's normally unfair to reduce a story to a sentence long summary but in this case it's completely fair because there was just nothing to it.." Automata has potential for intrigue/drama/suspense. Lookouts could only ever be a fight scene.

    There's nothing wrong with a story that winds up being just a fight scene. It could be a really cool fight scene, for one, with drama and suspense. Nothing wrong with that. It could establish the triumph of children over their foes, coming of age and becoming men. Which is sort of what I expected, at least. It could have some great dialogue and beautiful art direction. A comic arc doesn't need to have convoluted plots and subplots to be awesome; it just needs to be well-executed.

    This arc was not well-executed. Saying that it was necessarily going to suck because there "was nothing to it" just spectacularly misses the point.

    ElJeffe on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2009
    slacktron wrote: »
    1) Incompetent fucker is snuck up on by a basilisk while the children are not, gets tailswiped

    I don't know if he got snuck up on, as he renders an apology to his troop as the basilisk attacks, but he is certainly breaking his contract as set up on the initial page, where he states "(Basilisks) are wrong things, and I will show you how to put them right."

    I'm guessing that turning your back on your companions and getting your dumb ass tailswiped isn't in the Junior Woodchuck Monster Fighting Manual.

    Then again, perhaps the only way to "put them right" is to provide regular feedings of small children.

    G&T need to give us a making-of commentary.

    ElJeffe on
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do feel really bad for the artist/writer. The artist, at least, is clearly talented, and I do like her work. She has a beautiful style. She just shouldn't have agreed to point her talents here.

    I sort of imagine there was a mutual admiration that got in the way. Gabe loved the artist, and the artist loved PA, and neither of them realized what a piss-poor match they made on this particular project.
    I don't even think it's that, as much as it is they did the original lookouts comic, and through all the voting and winning it was assumed they'd be doing the rest of it. Then right before, we get surprised with a guest artist and writer. It would've been one thing if they'd said "We're taking a vacation for a week, we'll have a guest artist doing a strip", but instead it was like the guy that does Beetle Bailey suddenly drawing Calvin and Hobbes with no warning.

    I like to think that I gave the guest comics a fair shake, and it just didn't work. I'm not complaining about a bait-and-switch, I just think these comics, particularly the writing, aren't any good. The reason Matisyahu is able to, as Jeffe says, spectacularly miss the point, is because the story was not fleshed out beyond 'kids fight basilisk.' It needed to be.

    Powerpuppies on
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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I do feel really bad for the artist/writer. The artist, at least, is clearly talented, and I do like her work. She has a beautiful style. She just shouldn't have agreed to point her talents here.

    I sort of imagine there was a mutual admiration that got in the way. Gabe loved the artist, and the artist loved PA, and neither of them realized what a piss-poor match they made on this particular project.
    I don't even think it's that, as much as it is they did the original lookouts comic, and through all the voting and winning it was assumed they'd be doing the rest of it. Then right before, we get surprised with a guest artist and writer. It would've been one thing if they'd said "We're taking a vacation for a week, we'll have a guest artist doing a strip", but instead it was like the guy that does Beetle Bailey suddenly drawing Calvin and Hobbes with no warning.

    I like to think that I gave the guest comics a fair shake, and it just didn't work. I'm not complaining about a bait-and-switch, I just think these comics, particularly the writing, aren't any good. The reason Matisyahu is able to, as Jeffe says, spectacularly miss the point, is because the story was not fleshed out beyond 'kids fight basilisk.' It needed to be.

    A good example is Cardboard Tube Samurai. In a situation with little or no dialogue you can use art to imply certian aspects of the story. We never see CTS slice into brigands but gabe makes it clear he did.

    In this case the minimal writing is hurt by the art which doesn't portray the little subtleties it was ( most likely) meant to

    King Riptor on
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    DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I just wanted to say my predictions were completely wrong

    I guess I should have known it wouldn't be too traditional in terms of narrative.

    Duffel on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    chiming in with my disappointment

    no big deal, but I just wish it hadn't been done by guests

    Medopine on
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    Manic205Manic205 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I still can't get over how they're staring in the basilisk's direction in every other panel. Hell, there are 2 panels where the kids directly pelt the beast's eye itself with a dagger and a projectile.

    And what the hell. Guest strips 1 and 2 make it abundantly clear that the Scoutmaster is a non-interfering hard-ass... but he's the one who jumps in to blind the creature.

    God damn.

    Manic205 on
    1365887IzMnK.png
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    kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The chronically cluttered layout and the troupemaster's bipolar behavior disappointed me.

    kedinik on
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Also, I would like to point out that I was right about the artists choice of weird colouration from the sky in comic 2 until now. The changing sky/darker red colours are being used as a way of visually conveying a threat level and impending horror onto the scene.

    It also makes the comic look really unappealing visually, but at least I can understanding why they have done it that way. I would expect based on this that the next comic once they defeat it starts to return to a lighter tone in terms of colouration.

    Aegeri on
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    $10 says this is all just one of the kid's over active imagination and the scout master is showing them how to kill the chicken they're having for dinner.

    TheStig on
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    UnderdogUnderdog Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The art was pretty good, after I finally figured out where the fat kid was hiding in the first comic. Yeah it was different but not really as hard to follow as some seem to have found it. And yes, that last panel is pretty awesome. I really would've liked to see the blond kid rise to the occasion, just a little bit before the team kicked in to save him. The PA comic had him singled out as one of the tykes that needed just that little bit of extra help and it would've been great to see him shine a little brighter and show some growth.

    To Aegeri: You mean was the blond kid just waiting for the basilisk to eat him? I saw it as him freezing up and not knowing what to do. He was the kid that seemed like a bit less sure of himself than all the others in the PA comic.

    Underdog on
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    tuxkamentuxkamen really took this picture. Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    When you graduate from Junior Lookout Camp, you too get an extend-o-cape.

    I think I get the point of it, story-wise--what the boys are intended to learn is that they have to look out for each other. Stretchy McEyepatch doesn't jump in until the others stop running around and try to save their friend (the assumption being that the previous statuary paniced, went every-boy-for-himself, and all got picked off). If they don't have that protective instinct, they won't make it very long in the forest.

    Having felt smarter for figuring that out, the art still makes me feel like John Kricfalusi is hiding out in some deviantart contributor's house, bogarting their Wacom tablet while their decomposing corpses mellow out in the basement. :/ (No, I'm not an R&S fan.)

    tuxkamen on

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    MightyMighty Omeganaut '15 '16 '17 NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    the color scheme and the artstyle make my eyes hurt. needs some dark colors to go with the blinding pastel.

    Mighty on
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    ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The flat red background when one of the main figures is a giant red rooster is kind of a bad choice in my view. It trains my mind to equate red with background, so then in the next panel I think the rooster is background for a second until I see that it's actually the rooster head.

    I thought it was a joke when someone said it's a writer from Heroes... :P

    Anyway I think the art itself is pretty awesome. What I've seen of the artist's other work is phenomenal. Didn't really dig this Lookouts comic though for the same reasons already mentioned. Oh well, it was still interesting and different.

    This on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Manic205 wrote: »
    I still can't get over how they're staring in the basilisk's direction in every other panel. Hell, there are 2 panels where the kids directly pelt the beast's eye itself with a dagger and a projectile.

    And what the hell. Guest strips 1 and 2 make it abundantly clear that the Scoutmaster is a non-interfering hard-ass... but he's the one who jumps in to blind the creature.

    God damn.

    Well the scoutmaster dude did say they will still be boys. I guess he didn't feel like becoming basillisk dinner and went all wacha! Or it could be bad writing...

    Preacher on
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    UnderdogUnderdog Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Wait a minute... is it me or do those shadows in the final panel look like the boys themselves? Or did everyone already notice this and I'm just really late to the party? I thought it was the Scoutmaster...

    Underdog on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Underdog wrote: »
    Wait a minute... is it me or do those shadows in the final panel look like the boys themselves? Or did everyone already notice this and I'm just really late to the party? I thought it was the Scoutmaster...

    The one at the top is the scout master, the rest are the boys.

    I could have sworn you said this art was easy to follow not three posts ago...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Underdog wrote: »
    Wait a minute... is it me or do those shadows in the final panel look like the boys themselves? Or did everyone already notice this and I'm just really late to the party? I thought it was the Scoutmaster...

    The one at the top is the scout master, the rest are the boys.

    I could have sworn you said this art was easy to follow not three posts ago...

    There are three short boys and one tall boy.

    In the shadow picture there are three short shadows and one tall shadow.

    How can you tell the top one is the scout master?

    Burtletoy on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Because A) he's bigger then every other shadow, and B) he's in exactly the same place as he was in the previous panel. The back of the chicken-cocktrice-basalisk's head.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    UnderdogUnderdog Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Underdog wrote: »
    Wait a minute... is it me or do those shadows in the final panel look like the boys themselves? Or did everyone already notice this and I'm just really late to the party? I thought it was the Scoutmaster...

    The one at the top is the scout master, the rest are the boys.

    I could have sworn you said this art was easy to follow not three posts ago...

    I said it wasn't as hard to follow as some were saying but apparently I spoke too soon.

    Underdog on
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    The Great American NovelThe Great American Novel __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    The top shadow is wearing shorts, not pants. It's the tall boy. I'm pretty sure that the final panel is more of a metaphor than a literal next-frame-of-action. After it's blindfolded, the boys swarm over it and stab the fuck out of it; that frame is just kind of a composite image letting us know they stabbed the fuck out of it. It's an artistic thing and not a literal thing, which is why we can see the eye (it's still blindfolded, I'm sure) and why the kids are doing something as stupid as climbing a live, writhing beast.

    The Great American Novel on
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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Part five is up.

    So he was supposed to let them fend for themselves, and more than likely die, which explains the 'I'm sorry,' from a few pages back. Instead he took pity on them and helped out.

    It was a Spartan-y, kill the weak youngsters, thing, but the scout leader decided he liked little boys more than he liked tradition.

    Wait...

    chamberlain on
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