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Media center pc/HTPC build on
GrimReaper
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Here's the deal fellas, i'm looking at building a pc specifically to act as a media center pc/home cinema system.
I'm looking for advice on hardware, software etc.
Up to this point I thought I had decided on some specific hardware. To quote myself:
However, i've come across a motherboard that has an onboard nvidia chipset that has a native HDMI output. This is it.
By essentially using the on-board chipset instead of a discrete ATI 3450 i'm reducing the power requirements and heat generated in the box. However, in the past few years i've really had nothing but trouble with nvidia chips. Does anyone have any experience with using HDMI from a mobo chipset with a HDTV? Any problems?
I've no idea what to do in regards to remotes, I am wanting to get something like a Logitech Harmony 555. However, can I just get any IR receiver for the pc or do I need to be getting something specific?
On the software front I was aiming for something like Boxee or XBMC since they seem like the best. And I'm probably going to run them on-top of windows xp, purely for the sake of drivers.
I also think I may have found the perfect case that will fit in well alongside everything else. This looks like a good fit.
Critiques? Hardware suggestions? Software suggestions?
I'm looking for advice on hardware, software etc.
Up to this point I thought I had decided on some specific hardware. To quote myself:
Things I've pretty much decided on:
Asus HD 3450 (this has HDMI+audio output and includes a low profile backplane - £17.88)
AMD Athlon X2 5050e (low power 45w processor - £40.64)
Asus M2N68-AM SE2 (cheap motherboard - £28.68)
LiteOn 16x DVD±RW (cheap DVD-RW - £11.29)
Samsung EcoGreen F2 1.5TB Hard Drive (large hard drive, 5400rpm so it'll likely be low heat and low noise.. plus you can change the drive speed via a special cd £78.25.. 2TB seems overpriced)
Crucial 2GB kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800 (£16.34)
What I haven't decided on:
Case+PSU
Wireless keyboard
I've been considering three different cases at the moment; MicroATX tower, MATX cube case or Normalish ATX desktop media center case.
With the MATX tower I'd have to separately buy a MATX PSU like this for example.
On the wireless keyboard front I was thinking of buying one of the wireless keyboards that includes a touchpad. I am undecided on whether to go for something of the cheaper variety like this or go for something a bit outrageous like a more higher end Logitech one like this.
However, i've come across a motherboard that has an onboard nvidia chipset that has a native HDMI output. This is it.
By essentially using the on-board chipset instead of a discrete ATI 3450 i'm reducing the power requirements and heat generated in the box. However, in the past few years i've really had nothing but trouble with nvidia chips. Does anyone have any experience with using HDMI from a mobo chipset with a HDTV? Any problems?
I've no idea what to do in regards to remotes, I am wanting to get something like a Logitech Harmony 555. However, can I just get any IR receiver for the pc or do I need to be getting something specific?
On the software front I was aiming for something like Boxee or XBMC since they seem like the best. And I'm probably going to run them on-top of windows xp, purely for the sake of drivers.
I also think I may have found the perfect case that will fit in well alongside everything else. This looks like a good fit.
Critiques? Hardware suggestions? Software suggestions?
GrimReaper on
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Posts
OS: Windows 7. For media centers, it has been really really good. Integration with every single piece of media software I've used. User friendly and really slick. Plus it's free at the moment!
HD playback: If you plan on watching HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies, you will need additional software to do so. PowerDVD or Total Media Center are your main choices at the moment. These are expensive.
Cataloging movies: Mymovies - Essentially creates a database of movies your rip. It will automatically mount the image for playback among other things. Free
Ripping / Copyprotection: AnyDVD is nice if you do back up movies or like to skip directly to menu.
Input: I bought a keyboard/trackball combo from Adesso. Trackball is really easy to use (on the upper right of the keyboard). All the media buttons are located on the left. The range is terrible and it frequently doesn't pick up keystrokes. I hardly ever type on the HTPC so it's acceptable, if you plan to use it for more than movies, consider a better keyboard.
IR Receiver: A lot of TV cards will come with remotes and receivers. The keyboard with media buttons makes the remote I purchased kind of obsolete to be honest.
Case: Look for something that is really silent for a HTPC. I wouldn't skimp on the case. Some HTPC cases have IR receivers built in.
What are you planning to have for media/storage? Using discs, encoded (avi/mkv/etc) rips, or images (iso)?
Yep, i've been experimenting with Boxee (based on XBMC) and XBMC (i've used this on and off since the first Xbox).
As to windows 7, I honestly don't see the need for it. I've got a spare windows xp license so i'll just be using that. What i'm worried about is remote compatibility with Boxee/XBMC under windows.
For media storage I'll be storing all my dvd's, freeview (eventually freesat hdtv stuff) rips, all my holiday photos and all my music. Hence i'm aiming for a processor that can decode 1080p video.
I own a PS3 so for bluray playing (when I bother to buy some) will be done on that. Although I will likely at some point buy a bluray drive to copy bluray movies onto the HTPC.
I'll be using a 1.5TB HDD in the HTPC.
Also, I was intending to use the AMD 5050e (dual core energy efficient processor) but it's now hard'ish to find. Would a single core LE-1640 (2.7GHz) do the trick at playing back 1080p content ok you guys reckon?
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
I think i've narrowed down my case choice to possibly this one it has an inbuilt lcd, ir receiver and remote.
EDIT: Also, how the heck do you get XBMC to download movie, tv shows etc cover art? It's really simple to do on Boxee, but on XBMC I must be missing a trick here or something.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Think about sound... the sound the computer will make
I'm building a 'bookshelf' PC for an multimedia center as I can get away without any fans (maybe one on the processor). and puttin the OS on a flash card and networking it, thus no HDD either.
think i'm going to be using a netbook with synergy as a remote, possibly a cordless mouse if i don't want to turn the netbook on.
should cost around $300.
this guy compares Boxee, Zinc, and Hulu Desktop
http://www.deviceguru.com/boxee-vs-zinc-vs-hulu/
My reason is fairly simple, vendor driver support. I've been hearing of issues getting audio through HDMI working on Linux. (specifically on ATI chips) Therefore I'm taking the path of least resistance. Dude, I have zero problem using Linux, I use it everyday at work. But just because it exists doesn't mean I should use it for everything.
I use whatever I feel is best for the job and for vendor hardware driver support it's pretty damn impossible to beat windows.
As to XBMC, never mind about the cover art stuff. I found it, bit of a roundabout way of setting a content directory but it'll do the trick.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
it will work.
Is the important factor going to be Processor or Video card, and what sort of range will I be looking at? Is a 2.5ghz dual core Intel going to handle any video I throw at it regardless of video card?
Thanks for any help.
Your GPU is only used for decoding videos under certain conditions (if the software supports it for the hardware you have, and depending how the video is encoded). Under any other conditions you will need to use your CPU at least in part.
With that CPU you won't have trouble playing back basically any HD content. Some people recommend 3Ghz+ but the only video that would theoretically need that much power is unrealistically high bitrate stuff... a 2.5Ghz dual core will be plenty in practice.
If you're using software that supports DXVA/VDPAU/CUDA/etc then your CPU won't make any difference. Literally none. You could have an 800mHz celeron and it'd still be fine :0) But hardware acceleration is still pretty much in its infancy and software support isn't the best so I just opted for a powerful CPU so I don't need to worry about it.
I'd just like to add to this, using Boxee or XBMC they play back all 1080p content without any problems on my Athlon 64 X2 4800+. I've started ordering for the HTPC, so far I've only ordered the processor which is an Athlon 64 X2 5050e. (45w energy efficient one)
On the graphics card front, you don't actually need a discrete graphics card. I've found motherboards that have not only integrated graphics that can play 1080p without problem but also have HDMI outputs. For example i'm currently looking at getting this motherboard. The reason i'm not going for the cheaper nvidia based ones is simply experience, I seem to be having a really bad run of unreliable nvidia chips. (seriously, i've had two 7800GTX's die on me, an 8600M GT and today an nvidia chipset on a computer I was building for work was seriously flaky)
EDIT: Also, from reading XBMC dev posts there is someone working on a wrapper to use the code from MPC-HC for DXVA under windows. However, i've no idea when that'll be ready.
EDIT2: I use DXVA when I play video in MPC-HC, the performance is incredible. Playing an 18GB 1080p video uses no more than a couple of percent cpu time. I can do just about anything else without worrying about the video lagging behind, or when seeking it's instantaneous.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Unless someone knows of something as capable or more capable than XBMC?
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Your impression of XBMC couldn't be more wrong, heh. XBMC is a media center, it plays pretty much any format you can imagine as well as handling the presentation of the content (movie/music/tv info). It won't touch your files though or sort them in any way.
I suggest you give it a download, it is open source after all. Initially it's a bit confusing but with all the skins you can use, you eventually learn your way around it. (initially adding content to the library thing is a bit confusing, you need to press the windows app key.. it's the key to the right of the windows key on the right hand side of your keyboard when over a directory in xbmc and select set content)
Guys, i'm trying to decide on a case.. help me out here..
I think i've probably narrowed it down to three choices:
Nice looking but no led display/remote
Nice looking with imon thing, but hard to find reviews
Most expensive, includes imon thing, good reviews
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Just press 'c' (Context menu) to bring up the menu and set your content from there.
I have an Antec Fusion case, and just a warning about the iMON IR receiver. It will only receive codes that come from the expected remote (MS MCE remote), so if you have a nice universal you can't just program in any remote you want. This isn't a big problem but it is a bit annoying sometimes (or really annoying until you figure it out, heh). Also I found the LCD to be useless - it was too bright in a dark room and not readable enough to be really useful. I just disabled mine. Also I never use the volume knob (that's what remotes are for) so really I would have been better served with a plain old case and getting my own IR receiver, lol.
Hmm, interesting.
On the XBMC front.. adding tv shows to the library. I am being driven insane, no matter what I name them it's not adding them at all to the library. Is there some specific magical file naming convention I should be using? Good thing I haven't copied across all my futurama, hitchhikers guide etc dvd's as right about now this has been getting on my nerves.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Show Name\
-- Show Name - 1x01 - Ep Name.mkv
http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=TV_Shows_%28Video_Library%29
You can set the content to be a folder full of show folders (in which case you'll need to scan recursively) or you can set the content separately on each show folder and put "Folder contains a single show".
Yep, got it figured shortly after I posted. Go figure.
EDIT: Hmm, I just did a rip of my hitchhikers guide dvd.. the videos aren't remembering the settings for video scaling method etc (using crappy nearest neighbour by default rather than bicubic). Is there a setting somewhere to set it to use specific settings per tv show or per episode?
EDIT2: Never mind, it was a setting overriding it in player config.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Quick question on the remote, with the logitech harmony remotes can't you just plug the remote into your computer, point the other remote at it and record the ir codes used to simply reprogram the harmony?
If I do go with a universal remote i'd probably go with a logitech harmony.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
I have a Harmony too, and yes you can do that but there's no need... you can just select your antec case in the Harmony software and it'll automatically use the right buttons for you.
In the words of John Hammond, I've spared no expense.. lets just hope when I open the case a velociraptor doesn't jump out of it and bite my face off.
Antec Micro Fusion Remote Veris media center case with 350w psu
Nexos 2.4Ghz Wireless Multimedia Entertainment Keyboard with TouchPad
PowerColor RS780G Socket AM2+ onboard VGA 5.1 channel audio mATX (mobo)
Samsung EcoGreen F2 1.5TB Hard Drive SATAII 32MB Cache - OEM
LG GH22NS40 22X SATA DVD±RW/DL/RAM Black Bare Drive - OEM
Crucial 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL6 Lifetime Warranty
And finally.. AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e
Plus some additional cables like a sata cable, sata -> molex power adapter etc.
I haven't yet ordered a Logitech Harmony.
EDIT: Just replaced the motherboard on the order to this one it's an Asus mobo, same chipset etc. The powercolor one had zero support on their site, as in no bios download, no driver download (granted I download the drivers from ATI etc directly) and so on. Thought it best to play safe than sorry and go with an established motherboard manufacturer.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
If you're talking about XBMC it's had hardware acceleration for a while now, but only under linux with nVidia like you said.
(kind of on topic but apologizes for keeping this string up)
Id go with nvidia in any case to be honest, but I am an nvidia fanboy.
Edit: 23 in stock my arse, got an email saying these are out of stock. Had to replace it with a £71 780G based mobo.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Both companies release shitty lines of products on occasion.
So if you pick a side and stick with it, probably dictates that you ARE going to get nailed by a bad card sometime when you do a video upgrade. So what's the point? Just focus on which cards do you the best for the money.
Honestly for an HTCP I'd hunt up an onboard GPU that can still handle DXVA and just use that. The only reason mine uses a 'real' video card is because it also runs 'real' games.
DXVA is pretty new now but in a year I expect most media player software will suport it. Win7 has some built in and you can already get the MPC-HC codec to use in alternate software.
Yep, the 780G motherboard I've ordered includes onboard HD3200 with DVI, VGA and most importantly HDMI outputs.
In the bios settings you can define the onboard GPU speed, so I'm mulling under-clocking it (especially since it's not using DXVA at the moment) in order to reduce heat and watts used. (by it using less power I'm hoping the psu runs cooler thereby running the fans more slowly which will reduce noise even more.. at least that's my hope)
Of course, i'll run it with the defaults at the start and see how it goes. I haven't yet ordered the big HDTV yet. So i'll have to use my smaller 22" hdtv. I don't intend to order the big hdtv until i've moved into the new house.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
The reason is that DVI and HDMI are identical as far as video goes, the only difference really is the connector on the end. You can get HDMI <-> DVI dongles for like $0.50 on monoprice and use whichever output you want.
The important distinction is that HDMI transfers audio as well as video, whereas DVI is only video. If you have a receiver, though, you can just run optical or coax s/pdif for your audio alongside your DVI video. The only thing to watch for between s/pdif and HDMI audio is that s/pdif can't carry multi-channel uncompressed PCM audio like DTS-HD or DD TrueHD because it doesn't have enough bandwidth. That probably matters for about 0.5% of HTPC users though, so depending on your needs it's highly likely that you can save a few bucks by not worrying about getting something with an HDMI port.
I don't really want one of those huge overkill Media Center remotes -- ideally, I want the PC equivalent of the Apple remote. Something like the Nyko PS3 remote would fit the bill well enough, but does anyone know if it's possible to use one of those on a PC?
PSN:RevDrGalactus/NN:RevDrGalactus/Steam
I think you may be out of luck, the only thing that I know of is the imon thing. Essentially it will fit into a pc.. it includes an lcd, ir receiver and remote. The only way you're going to get a good remote is if you replace the imons remote with a logitech harmony probably.
You could always buy a macmini or appletv, you can use XBMC, Plex or boxee on them with an apple remote. I think Plex is meant to have the best OSX integration. (itunes integration I believe)
EDIT: Woo, the 5050e arrived.. everything else will probably be delivered either Friday or sometime Monday.. boo.
EDIT2: Woohoo, all the parts have been despatched. Because it's ebuyer some of them are from different warehouses.. hopefully i'll have them all tomorrow.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
I've got everything else sitting next to me right now, those poor components.. stuck in their boxes, all alone.
EDIT: This is what I ordered
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
4gb ram
Intel Dual Core 2.6ghz somethingorother
Nvidia 9300 motherboard.
Needed to RMA the motherboard as HDMI Audio didn't work correctly, on the new board it works "well enough" though it tends to stutter when initialised. This isn't an issue when playing films and games but playing short soundbites (eg windows booting up noise) it sounds a bit naff.
Someone recommended Windows 7, I wouldn't go that route personally. It limits you to the installed codecs unless you do some SERIOUS messing around, renaming files and what-not. I had a dual boot system with XP and Windows 7 just to see which I preferred and after countless issues with 7 I deleted it.
Software though I couldn't recommend MediaPortal with Streamed MP high enough. It's absolutely stunning to look at and works brilliantly. It's apparently by some people who formally worked on XBMC who wanted to write something for the PC from the ground up (as opposed to porting).
For silky smooth playback it's also got a cool option (which I'm sure others do) to change the refresh rate dynamically. I have mine set to 24hz for 23.97fps, 50hz for 25fp and 60hz for 29.97. 24P playback was important to me when I bought all my hardware.
The alternative (or also in addition) to this is to use Reclock which is a fantastic piece of software. If your tv/monitor only supports 50hz/60hz then it'll adjust the video so frames aren't lost.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
That is why I bought ATI. I've had a bad run with nvidia and I knew nvidias early HDMI stuff was fudged. Glad I opted for the more expensive 780G mobo.
Curiously that pic of yours looks exactly like the theme I've been using on XBMC. It's called mediastream.
How's your machine for noise? I tried to find the most low power/noise components I could find.
Has anyone else used an XP patch for terminal services, so you can log in remotely more than once? (so you can have XBMC running and not getting it locked/logged out whilst you connect in remotely)
I long ago decided on XP, for two reasons.. hardware driver support and relatively low hardware requirements. (plus I can really tweak it a lot to reduce boot time.. more so than I could win 7 or vista)
EDIT:
An example of the theme i'm using in XBMC.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
What would you all recomend for a frontend in linux based htpc? keep in mind I do not have a tuner, so it would be dvd(eventually bluray), and whatever I already have on the drives. I still use it to set up my bit torrent stuff, so Ive just been using the generic desktop and its kind of drab digging through folders to play stuff.
XBMC!
What he said.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.