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Xbox Live! PSA regarding adverts.

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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Roxtar wrote: »
    DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO PAY FOR ADS, DUR! You guys are awsome....

    Seriously, this is the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed throughout my tenure here.

    Flagrant exageration my ass. It doesn't bother you that someone is making money on your head and bombarding you with unwanted content....

    Well then I guess you're just special.

    Meiz on
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    SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Seriously, this is the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed throughout my tenure here.
    That can't possibly be the case. You've been here longer than I have.

    I don't think I have ever even noticed the ads on NXE after the first 2 or 3 times I used it, and I don't really care how many more are added as long as it doesn't really slow anything down. I just reflexively scroll up and over to my XBLA games (all I ever play anymore) the moment the dashboard loads. It'd be nice if I could boot straight to a game (can I?) and just cut out the rest, ads and otherwise, but eh. No big loss.

    Your ranting over something so completely inconsequential reminds me of this comic. There's "principle" and then there's nerdrage.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Roxtar wrote: »
    DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO PAY FOR ADS, DUR! You guys are awsome....

    Seriously, this is the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed throughout my tenure here.

    Flagrant exageration my ass. It doesn't bother you that someone is making money on your head and bombarding you with unwanted content....

    Well then I guess you're just special.

    Apparently not, otherwise I'd be posting my outrage on the internet.

    I guess my angle is that adverts are everywhere, in both free and paid-for media. I was watching my girlfriend play Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory last night, and we both laughed at the shameless Airwaves product placement. This is not a new situation, and it's not nearly as offensive or inconvenient as people make out.

    Or maybe I am just special, with my ability to ignore adverts that I don't care about.

    darleysam on
    forumsig.png
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    4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Roxtar wrote: »
    DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO PAY FOR ADS, DUR! You guys are awsome....

    Seriously, this is the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed throughout my tenure here.

    Flagrant exageration my ass. It doesn't bother you that someone is making money on your head and bombarding you with unwanted content....

    Well then I guess you're just special.

    More time is needed to phone them and remove the ads than it is to view the ads which are sometimes relevant and useful. It's not about an emotional and irrational fear of people making money from me viewing their adspace, it's about my personal convenience. The cost of removal far outweighs the rewards of removal.

    That said, I think you want some thanks for bringing the option to remove ads to our attention so thank you.

    4rch3nemy on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I generally like the idea that the companies whose products and services I use are doing their best to be profitable and continue to provide the service that interests me. I believe that by exploring alternative business models, those companies are going to continue to find ways to keep costs to the consumer at a bearable level (note, this does not mean that they will abandon the idea of increasing profits, simply that if they find another profitable business model they will reduce overall costs to be as competitive as possible).

    If ads make Live a more profitable service, they will either increase the value to the consumer, decrease the cost, or they will lose business to Sony. I don't think they're just dying to hand off business to their primary competitor, so ultimately Microsoft getting money from Frito-Lay through the 360 product line is going to add value to my experience in some way or another. Or else I'll choose to take my dollars elsewhere.

    I just don't understand the reactionary, "OMG, this is a VIOLATION OF MY HUMAN RIGHTS" response so prevalent on these forums (and online in general).

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    Meiz on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    What service do you provide us that we'd be interested in supporting you?

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Fight the power!

    4rch3nemy on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    What service do you provide us that we'd be interested in supporting you?

    What service is microsoft providing you other then an ethernet port? Achievement points? woooo

    Meiz on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    What service do you provide us that we'd be interested in supporting you?

    What service is microsoft providing you other then an ethernet port? Achievement points? woooo

    Man, that's just stupid. Microsoft provides me with a matchmaking service, a centralized messaging/gaming hub, microtransaction purchases of things I want, access to netflix and a bunch of other stuff. You don't have to value it yourself, but I think it's worth the cost. You saying, "Well how about I just foist ads on you for no reason, lolololol" is completely removed from the concept of someone who is already buying into the service being interested/pleased to see a company explore new revenue models that don't take money out of the user's pocket.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Maybe the real question here is, Does the 50$ a year for gold really pay for the service that you are getting?

    I would expect more service if they are going to advertise to us. I could care less about the principal and more about what I'm going to be getting in exchange for being advertised to.

    Viscountalpha on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    They're probably not going to break down the income/spending stream for you. At that point, it comes down to whether you think that the increased revenue is going to result in some sort of increased value to you. It might not be as tangible as you'd think, maybe even something as simple as "Costs to run Live are higher for us than they were. We would normally raise subscription fees, but we think that would drive off customers. Instead, we'll subsidize with ad revenue."

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    What service do you provide us that we'd be interested in supporting you?

    What service is microsoft providing you other then an ethernet port? Achievement points? woooo

    Man, that's just stupid. Microsoft provides me with a matchmaking service, a centralized messaging/gaming hub, microtransaction purchases of things I want, access to netflix and a bunch of other stuff. You don't have to value it yourself, but I think it's worth the cost. You saying, "Well how about I just foist ads on you for no reason, lolololol" is completely removed from the concept of someone who is already buying into the service being interested/pleased to see a company explore new revenue models that don't take money out of the user's pocket.

    Lets suppose all that nonsense wasn't already built on existing architecture, which it is, it doesn't excuse the fact that in order to access their premium add free services, you have to pay. It especially does not excuse the fact that their business is already supposed to be lucrative.The nail in the coffin defeating your argument is the fact that their immediate competition is not resorting to such bullshit in order to provide its clientele with similar services.

    Look. If I buy something that happens to have an Internet connection, I don't want to plug it in and have it decide that I might want a fucking big mac. I don't do it with my PC at home, with my PSP, with my DS, my VCR, my toaster....

    Some of you have the uncanny ability to simply take having some corporate entity make money off you and ignore banners depicting marketing initiatives. I can't.

    Meiz on
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Lunker on
    Tweet my Face: @heyitslunker | Save money at CheapAssGamer (not an affiliate link)
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    Meiz on
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    SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I dunno. I think "it looks tacky as hell" is a more compelling argument than "they're infringing upon my rights as a consumer."

    'Cause they do look pretty stupid. All muckin' up the dashboard themes and everything.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    But the PSN sucks.

    chamberlain on
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    So I should sell all of my gear and lose hundreds of dollars in the process to buy a PS3, different games and free online? Talk about sticking it to the man!

    PSN online play also inherently has much less value in my eyes because most of my friends have 360s. You're trying to equate online play as equal to online play, but since we don't have cross-platform play, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. I might balk at the bar that has a cover charge, but if it's the place where my favorite band is playing, why wouldn't I pay it?

    Lunker on
    Tweet my Face: @heyitslunker | Save money at CheapAssGamer (not an affiliate link)
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz, can you take your console wars to one of the more appropriate threads? It is established that for some users the service is worth the $30 a year. Might not be for you, that's cool. I have the $30 to spare, and I like the additional convenience that Live provides me. Dragging the argument back down to the basic Live vs. Home argument makes it harder to actually find the opinions of people already buying into the service on the addition of ads.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    MinionOfCthulhuMinionOfCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Your ranting over something so completely inconsequential reminds me of this comic. There's "principle" and then there's nerdrage.

    I too like to imagine the other person's position as a goofy strawman.

    MinionOfCthulhu on
    mgssig.jpg1152dt.gif
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    But the PSN sucks.

    Maybe it's because I don't play online very much but I honestly can't tell the difference between the two services. The only advantage XBL has for me is that all my friends have Xboxes so I have to use it to play with them, but that's got nothing to do with the quality of either service.

    I mean this in the least argumentative way possible, what are the significant differences between the two services?

    Speed Racer on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Lunker wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    So I should sell all of my gear and lose hundreds of dollars in the process to buy a PS3, different games and free online? Talk about sticking it to the man!

    PSN online play also inherently has much less value in my eyes because most of my friends have 360s. You're trying to equate online play as equal to online play, but since we don't have cross-platform play, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. I might balk at the bar that has a cover charge, but if it's the place where my favorite band is playing, why wouldn't I pay it?

    There's your D&D like attitute, attacking what you want out of it and strawmaning the rest.

    Let me break it down for you in the simplest terms.
    Ads suck for those who notice them
    Ads suck because someone is making money other then you because you're viewing the ads
    Ads suck because they make things estheticaly unpleasing
    As a result Xbox Live! addopting ads sucks.
    Competitors not addopting ads. Their services are free.
    What comes next?

    What you should be doing is if you don't like it, tell the company. Let them know. Things like this start small and they can snowball. Next thing you know, it's all over the place. Stick with the key points and argue those instead of trying to tear apart the trivial and you just might cut it when it comes to critical thinking.

    This is why I started the thread. To let you know you have a potential out and because it's absurd.

    That goes for everyone.

    Meiz on
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    greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I mean this in the least argumentative way possible, what are the significant differences between the two services?
    I know for some the persistent voice chat is a huge plus. But yeah other than that and "all my friends on live" not much. (at least to me) Oh and psn downloads can sometimes be slow.

    greeble on
    PSN/steam/battle.net: greeble XBL: GreebleX

    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
    I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
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    ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I will never base my console choice on the presence of ads on the dashboard....

    Zephos on
    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    Lunker wrote: »
    Well, first off (and this really should be in every Live thread), you shouldn't be spending $50 a year on it. Spend a week doing some homework and watching CAG and other places, and you can score a year of Live Gold for about $30 or less.

    I know it doesn't do anything to diffuse people's arguments over principle, but I find it hard to get nerdraged when three years of XBL have cost me about $75 total.

    Or you could go with a PS3 and not have to pay for it at all nor get annoying adverts.

    So I should sell all of my gear and lose hundreds of dollars in the process to buy a PS3, different games and free online? Talk about sticking it to the man!

    PSN online play also inherently has much less value in my eyes because most of my friends have 360s. You're trying to equate online play as equal to online play, but since we don't have cross-platform play, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. I might balk at the bar that has a cover charge, but if it's the place where my favorite band is playing, why wouldn't I pay it?

    There's your D&D like attitute, attacking what you want out of it and strawmaning the rest.

    Let me break it down for you in the simplest terms.
    Ads suck for those who notice them
    Ads suck because someone is making money other then you because you're viewing the ads
    Ads suck because they make things estheticaly unpleasing
    As a result Xbox Live! addopting ads sucks.
    Competitors not addopting ads. Their services are free.
    What comes next?

    What you should be doing is if you don't like it, tell the company. Let them know. Things like this start small and they can snowball. Next thing you know, it's all over the place. Stick with the key points and argue those instead of trying to tear apart the trivial and you just might cut it when it comes to critical thinking.

    This is why I started the thread. To let you know you have a potential out and because it's absurd.

    That goes for everyone.

    Ads are good because they are a way for a company to make money off of me while providing me with whatever service I'm interested in without taking more dollars out of my pocket. Same principle goes/went with published material (when it was a more successful business model): Rather than paying the full cost of the production of a magazine, I pay a very small amount and the companies that pay to advertise pay all the real costs.

    The interesting difference here is that the ads are being introduced after (we assume) a successful business model was already adapted. Are the ads combating rising costs to provide the service, thus keeping them from having to raise subscription rates? Will the ads be used to feed back into new content development? Both of those are generally acceptable to me. I'd be less enthused if the ad revenue was being channeled into, let's say the development of the next console, because that's not something I'm invested in yet. However, I'm still happy to see Microsoft exploring new ways to make money, other than making me pay up. No matter what, being forced to have ads on screen is more acceptable to me than shelling out realbux. I'm paying with my time/attention span now. I just have to hope that I'm going to see a return on my time/attention span investment. I think Microsoft is a smart company and knows some potential customers already resent the subscription service, so I don't think they're just going to chuckle evilly and snort every dollar off a stripper's ass.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    I mean this in the least argumentative way possible, what are the significant differences between the two services?
    I know for some the persistent voice chat is a huge plus. But yeah other than that and "all my friends on live" not much. (at least to me) Oh and psn downloads can sometimes be slow.

    Yes, the voice chat across multiple games is a plus. Being able to see and respond to messages while in game without jumping out to the dashboard is also a bonus. There also is intergration with MSN messenger.

    I suppose I should retract the PSN sucks statement. It does not suck, it is bare bones functional. If that is what you want, more power to you.

    chamberlain on
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    ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    and both consoles have had in game ads now for sometime..


    now, not owning a ps3 though, i was under the impression that playstation home was essentially a huge ad place? but they must not show (McDonald) ads for example. parathensess just because it was what i saw on the xbox mock up.

    Zephos on
    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
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    LookFreeGrenadeLookFreeGrenade Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Your ranting over something so completely inconsequential reminds me of this comic. There's "principle" and then there's nerdrage.

    I too like to imagine the other person's position as a goofy strawman.

    shmorky_political_cartoon-95d.gif

    LookFreeGrenade on
    ormskm.jpg20i89qa.jpg73f2j6.jpg
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would watch $600 worth of ads if it meant I got the next new console for free.

    Speed Racer on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would watch $600 worth of ads if it meant I got the next new console for free.

    That's actually a concept some companies are exploring hardcore. It's unlikely to happen with the xbox, obviously, but the fact of the matter is that the next xbox could be a whole lot cheaper if it turns out it's a great ad-delivery mechanism.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The idea of massive corporations paying for my luxury entertainment items just so they can show me some commercials that I won't watch is an incredibly appealing fantasy.

    Speed Racer on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well, someone would have to watch them and make buying decisions based off them, or else no money would be made and it would be a bad business model. The assumption, however, is that if the ads drive you to make spending decisions you may find them as helpful anyway and not mind them so much.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    This thread has taught me how important something is to people's lives. Wow.

    Henroid on
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    WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Do all these people complaining about ads on live actually know what it is? Like seriously?

    All the stuff being shown is stuff revelant to my interests; new arcade games, release dates, upcoming games, special promotions. There's nothing wrong with stuff like this, most people don't trawl forums for game release dates.

    The ads on live are immensely helpful. Maybe if PSN had something similar I'd know about and own more PSN games.

    WickerBasket on
    "please get on point coward baby magets."

    PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
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    ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Meiz wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    I think I'll make an applet that pushes ads by google and hit you guys up on that.

    What service do you provide us that we'd be interested in supporting you?

    What service is microsoft providing you other then an ethernet port? Achievement points? woooo

    You started off with an interesting OP but you've devolved into internet idiot. If you don't see the value in live or you find the 360 that distasteful, vote with your wallet and/or vote with your feet. You don't need to get lippy with those of us who don't agree with you - especially not in a passive agressive way that clearly ignores the things we do get with Live (even silver) like a friends list, online communication, a great infrastructure for downloadable demos and arcade games and (if you pay for it) multiplayer.

    Prior to the NXE I was quite vocal about Dash ads - because they covered up a good chunk of themes I'd spent my left over points on and it pissed me off (a big ad squarely over the action in the Castle Crashers theme made it pointless).

    The NXE does a great job of streamlining the ads into the service and they're easy to ignore. If the silverlight ads exist outside of that space (instead of just animating the existing blocks) I will be availing myself of the information you provided to have them removed. If they're as unintruisive as the current ads they'll be allowed to stay.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
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    DusdaDusda is ashamed of this post SLC, UTRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I...don't really have much to say about this. I've barely noticed the ads mentioned here, other than the inline Torchwood trailer which I actually stopped to watch. It looks like an interesting show.

    Why is this a horrible thing?

    Dusda on
    and this sig. and this twitch stream.
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