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Charcuterie 101 - The Silence you hear is the meat deliciousifying...

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Posts

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Too much smoke? I don't understand.

    Taste bad? I really don't understand.

    Usually foil is just to keep the meat from drying out IIRC.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Shouldn't be an issue, chunks should work fine in a propane smoker (depending on your smoker model) though chips might work better for smoke, the larger chunks might take a bit to get going (though they should last longer than chips)

    Sounds good. I keep reading about covering the meat in tin foil after a couple of hours, because too much smoke tastes bad. Is that a thing? Should I just have the dampers open more at that point to let the smoke out?
    The foil thing you are referring to is probably is the Texas Crutch. It is meant to speed cooking by avoiding the stall (when moisture on the surface of the meat evaporates and cools the meat, causing the temperature to plateau until it is all evaporated) by very tightly wrapping it in foil. Usually softens the bark, and not really necessary except for brisket unless you're hurting for time.

    Too much smoke...well, I've read that too much smoke can overpower poultry, but that's about it. The only smoke that actually tastes bad is white smoke (creosote has a nasty metallic taste).

    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    Well specifically, comments like this one:
    I've done a lot of ribs and you can definitely give them too much smoke. I put them on smoke for no more than 2 hours and then wrap in foil for 3 hours (all at 225). They turn out extremely moist and tender. If you prefer more of a crust go ahead and use the mop technique. Keep the damper open any time there is smoke!

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Dbl

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    What should I trust when it comes to temp? The built in doodad on the door says 325 but I hung a wired prong thermometer in there and it is steady at 250

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Never trust the built in dial. It's in direct contact with the metal and almost always shows hotter than the temperature truly is.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    So I ended up just sticking the prong in the meat, and using the door guage. Didn't get a consistent temperature cause I was being finicky. Maybe between 220-320 the whole time.

    Took it off once it hit 150s and didn't move a bit. Maybe 4.5 hours. In the oven for 3 more hours at 250 and it came up to 199.

    I probably could have left it in for a bit longer. It wasn't as easy to pull as I imagined. I've only ever done pulled pork in a slow cooker, and obviously that was like mush.

    But good lord is it delicious. I got a random BBQ sauce recipe from the internet and it is pretty good.

    Edit: Photos!

    Rubbed her down:

    869x0ida0152.jpg

    Into the smoker!:

    y3hcnisuvpha.jpg

    After 4.5 hours of smoking:

    6mtdxcgf6cs6.jpg

    Out of the oven:

    f7swdkuml76d.jpg

    Mmmm sandwich:

    iav5qatkib8k.jpg

    Learnings:

    - More rub next time. I thought I overdid it but I could have easily layered it on thicker. And possibly a mustard base to help it stick, too.
    - I need a thermometer for the smoker. Looking for suggestions! I have two digital prong thermos which I'll use to monitor the actual meat, but the door dial is pretty crap. I can flick it and it will jump like 20 degrees and stay there. Might as well be a board game spinner at this point.
    - Start earlier. I finished up around 1:30 am.
    - Don't mess with it as much. I replaced the wood around 1.5 hours in, but that dropped the temp big time. I also added water around hour 4. Don't think it was necessary.
    - Go longer in the oven. Wasn't as easy to pull as I think it should have been.
    - Don't drop a 500ml jar of fresh-made BBQ sauce on the floor while trying to carry 6 things at once into the garage.

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
    davidsdurionsceresXaquinspool32Zilla360DouglasDanger
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Never trust the built in dial. It's in direct contact with the metal and almost always shows hotter than the temperature truly is.

    Ya I'm gonna grab a proper thermo for next time.

    Is there a reliable type that is like 15-20 bucks max?

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    Never trust the built in dial. It's in direct contact with the metal and almost always shows hotter than the temperature truly is.

    Ya I'm gonna grab a proper thermo for next time.

    Is there a reliable type that is like 15-20 bucks max?

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ANCXJR6/

    These are the ones I usually see recommended.

    You can find a few that are in the $30 range. I wouldn't go much lower than 30 though.

    Ladies.
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Nice work Figgy!

    Lets talk about foil and "too much smoke"

    For Ribs I tend to use the 3-2-1 method
    3 hours of the ribs just out on its own, 2 hours wrapped in foil, 1 hour outside of foil. I've had to modify this a few times ,sometimes my smoker is too hot or its just too hot outside and I end up with ribs that are completely falling apart (which sucks.. if I wanted that i'd boil ribs like a noob) Usually when I unwrap the foil and take a peek at the ribs after 2 hours i'll know if I dun goofed or not (they are still tasty but...) the meat will have pulled away and split on the ribs.. if that happens make a note and bring the heat down lower for next time (Altitude, Climate etc all can effect cook time and end result so what works for me in Calgary will be different from what works for you guys)

    Foiling for Pulled Pork.
    For me it all depends on how much time I have, If started late I'll use foil at a few hours into the cook, otherwise you will likely end up throwing it in the oven (which if you have a charcoal smoker like me you might as well utilize the heat from the coals) I've never had a dry pulled pork so I think you have a fair bit of leeway. I did one this weekend for 6 hours, no foil at around 250, pulled fine and was stupid tasty. (i'll post a pic in a few)

    Foiling for Brisket
    As mentioned earlier this is called the "texas crutch" usually for Brisket you will see the meat stall at around 160 (not sure if that is all meats but whatever) and you can either power through it or wrap it in foil. Foil can keep the meat moist and it breaks the stall really easily but if you are looking for a nice bark the foil can cause that problem. That said I find that it is better to foil the meat cause a mediocre bark and moist meat is much better than a good bark and dry meat. Of course there is tricks that the pros use to get the best of both worlds but I am strictly AM so I cant help you there :D

    TOO MUCH SMOKE?

    Haven't seen it yet, As long as your smoker is putting out nice blue smoke and not white smoke you should be ok, with yours being a propane chances of white smoke are lessened , if the wood ignites and is burning with a flame then you have a problem, that's when you will get white smoke, as well if you haven't cleaned your smoker in awhile the build up on the sides can start to smolder and cause the same problem.

    Smoke ring!
    Lots of science behind this, a ring though is pure aesthetics and stops forming when the meat hits around 170degrees. So once your meat hits that don't worry about throwing on more wood (unless you are putting more meat on )

    Give this a read http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html

    and this http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/sratlas.html


    darkmayo on
    ceres
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    Thanks mayo! I'm doing it all over again tonight. 13 pounds of pork butt.

    @bowen I have two digital.probe thermos. Should I just hang one inside the smoker then? I didn't think the probe would get a proper ambient reading.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I think you're supposed to put one in the meat and one in the chamber. Most people just put one in the chamber.

    Ladies.
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    I think you're supposed to put one in the meat and one in the chamber. Most people just put one in the chamber.

    I have two digital so can do both.. I just thought the prong wasn't giving me an accurate ambient.

    Good to know.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I decided to buy a chimney starter for my charcoal grill

    they are the way and the light!

  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I decided to buy a chimney starter for my charcoal grill

    they are the way and the light!

    The only other thing I get more use out of in my kitchen setup is the pineapple cutter.

    #manmademiracles

    Xaquin
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I decided to buy a chimney starter for my charcoal grill

    they are the way and the light!

    The only other thing I get more use out of in my kitchen setup is the pineapple cutter.

    #manmademiracles

    I had to google pineapple cutter.. my head explode.

    Cabezone
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    Pineapple cutters always looked really wasteful to me. Is that not the case?

    steam_sig.png
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    Pineapple cutters always looked really wasteful to me. Is that not the case?

    I can do some measurements the next time I use it but I don't think it leaves more than a few millimeters of actual fruit attached to the skin.

  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Pineapple cutters always looked really wasteful to me. Is that not the case?

    I can do some measurements the next time I use it but I don't think it leaves more than a few millimeters of actual fruit attached to the skin.

    That's awesome.

    steam_sig.png
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I think we need a thread on amazing kitchen gadgets. :D

    V1mXaquinErin The Red
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I decided to buy a chimney starter for my charcoal grill

    they are the way and the light!

    The only other thing I get more use out of in my kitchen setup is the pineapple cutter.

    #manmademiracles

    I had to google pineapple cutter.. my head explode.

    I'm going to eat so much salmon and pineapple next time they're in season.

  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    One of my favorite tools is my smoker.
    VhfVxrn.jpg

    Want to turn a slab of meat into something amazing? All you need is the materials...
    zJkJFS2.jpg

    ...and time.
    GImzo0d.jpg

    Lots, and lots, and lots of time. Keep that in mind when you want to smoke something: it will probably take a few hours longer than you expect.

    davidsdurionsdarkmayoXavier1216Erin The Red
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    WSM represent!

  • kilroydoskilroydos Registered User regular
    Ribs from a week or so ago. This is my best effort so far:

    KGfNzvf.jpg

    cFErv4G.jpg

    ceresjoshgotrobowenThegreatcowXavier1216darkmayojdarksunErin The Red
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Loving that bark and smoke ring!

  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Jesus fuck I need to get myself a smoker.

    BouwsTErin The Red
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    on foiling: if you want to foil but not foil, use brown butcher paper instead. This will give you most of the help of foil, but not fuck up your bark and ring as much. It's the middle ground between foil and no foil.

    On stalling: Mopping and spritzing do not always help with stalls. They often make them worse. wetter smoke, earlier in the cook, will prevent a stall. You want it good and dank in your smoker, but you have to do it BEFORE you hit the stall, because new steam will just cool shit off. Also, if you're stalling on a pellet smoker, turn down the auger for a bit - moving air makes the stall worse.

    darkmayo
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Was on Vacation these last two weeks and visited my bro in Halifax, he just picked up a smoker himself (Propane/Charcoal) so got a chance to play with it while I was there.

    Apparently my bro was on a food share thingy, so they would get farm fresh whole chickens, produce etc delivered to them. They got a full "organic" (I really don't even know what that means anymore if anything) Turkey. The bird was on ice for a few months cause they got in back in March or something and didn't really have the time or appetite to do up the bird.

    Anyways out it came and we brined that bird for 2 days then popped it on the smoker.

    Now I hadnt used his smoker before so it was a learning experience.. ended up torching a whole load of chips when I first loaded it up. After a longer soak in water I managed to keep them from bursting into flames but still had some flare ups here and there, this was using it on the propane mode.

    I have a photo of the full bird somewhere but here is chunks of it carved up.

    11807543_10155857120800277_6309831230369111734_o.jpg

    darkmayo on
    GethXavier1216bowenXaquinjdarksunZilla360Erin The Red
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    As a noobie, I found chunks fairly forgiving. I didn't soak them at all and had no issues. I've read in a few places that chips burn faster, should be soaked, and you need to replace them partway through.

    Not sure I would ever even bother with chips over chunks.

    But, new house get! With a proper backyard I will hopefully be smoking more often.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Figgy wrote: »
    As a noobie, I found chunks fairly forgiving. I didn't soak them at all and had no issues. I've read in a few places that chips burn faster, should be soaked, and you need to replace them partway through.

    Not sure I would ever even bother with chips over chunks.

    But, new house get! With a proper backyard I will hopefully be smoking more often.

    my electric uses chips, and I have used chips with my charcoal smoker but I prefer chunks as they take longer to burn through.

    Had a BBQ with my martial arts people on Saturday, BBQ was at 1:30pm but I had two 5 pound briskets to smoke.. what time did I have to start it to make sure that I had enough cook time and enough time to let it rest.. Oh about 3:00am.

    11000531_10155910553800277_4422857114721100413_n.jpg?oh=be4c4a6df6839c625873e626f23d5d1b&oe=56768F79

    11942298_10155910553795277_1965709598382836955_o.jpg

    11895989_10155911761875277_2673826661407945403_n.jpg?oh=15638cc0cbfddb4bae34d21aba78d6d9&oe=5680C135

    11947889_10155912614850277_3727188568719306874_o.jpg

    Smoker was at around 250 for a the entire time, got up a few times to add a couple more wood chunks to the coals.

    Brisket itself was just a quick rub of salt and pepper nothing crazy. It lasted maybe 20 minutes at the BBQ.

    darkmayo on
    Xaquinchromdomjdarksun
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Had some good news from a gal I know, she goes in on full cows and pigs with her family and she has a brisket, beef ribs and pork ribs that she just doesn't have time to cook. :D

    The only thing sweeter than smoking meats, is smoking meats that you didn't have to pay for.

    XaquinXavier1216BarrakkethceresAresProphetjdarksunZilla360
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Since this thread is all about curing and smoking meats did everyone see the recent report from the WHO and the IARC regarding processed and smoked meats being a group 1 carcinogen.

    http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf


    http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/


    2. What do you consider as processed meat?

    Processed meat refers to meat that has been transformed through salting, curing, fermentation, smoking, or other processes to enhance flavour or improve preservation. Most processed meats contain pork or beef, but processed meats may also contain other red meats, poultry, offal, or meat by-products such as blood.

    Examples of processed meat include hot dogs (frankfurters), ham, sausages, corned beef, and biltong or beef jerky as well as canned meat and meat-based preparations and sauces.


    While I don't disagree that people should probably eat less processed meat, the classification for "processed" is incredibly broad. Does putting Salt on your meat classify it as processed?

    What products and methods where tested, how were they tested. We referring to home done smoking and curing where you have far more control over what goes into the product or the store bought stuff?

    anyone have thoughts on this?

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    It increases your risk by about 1-2% total over the course of your life.

    18% doesn't mean "18% out of 100% ever"

    Ladies.
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    It increases your risk by about 1-2% total over the course of your life.

    18% doesn't mean "18% out of 100% ever"

    exactly

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    They are likely referring specifically to the use of nitrates for curing when they talk about that kind of process, as well as smoking or charring meat. Both of those things produce some nasty carcinogens, but that really isn't news. Hell, I learned about them in organic chemistry and have been avoiding nitrate-processed and charred meat for years. You can find nitrate-free cured meats in the store if you want, they're usually advertised as such on the label. This is just the WHO taking a position on it rather than SHOCKING NEW RESEARCH.

    Question 18 on the list actually mentions the chemicals to look out for, which are attributed to the use of nitrates and nitrites (nitrosamines) and the charring of red meat (aromatic amines and hydrocarbons).

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    ShimshaibowenZilla360
  • ShimshaiShimshai Flush with Success! Isle of EmeraldRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    It increases your risk by about 1-2% total over the course of your life.

    18% doesn't mean "18% out of 100% ever"

    This is yet another health study that has been blown way out of proportion by media outlets that either don't understand/care about the minutiae of a study such as this.

    An increase if 18% sounds drastic, until it's shown to be a 5.8% risk instead of a straight 5%.

    The 18% only becomes relevant on a national or global scale. A 1% increase globally of bowel cancers is definitely something the WHO regards as significant, and understandably so.

    For the individual, personal health, exercise and dietary circumstance are far more important.

    Eat that bacon, you'll be grand :)

    Steam/Origin: Shimshai

    steam_sig.png
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I guess I'm too late, because it looks pretty well answered already, but I thought this article about it on the Verge was a pretty good anti-alarmist response. Basically they put it down to "eat a well-balanced diet, eat more lean meat more often than red meat, and you'll be alright."

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
    bowendarkmayo
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Yeah I've been experimenting with curing my bacon without using pink salt as of late. The taste is...alright I guess? Definitely different compared to using Pink Salt, but the biggest difference I've noticed is the color, I see why it's used for retail meat sales, the color, unless I use a really heavy infusion of herbs like pepper or paprika is majorly different. The non-pink-salt bacon definitely looks paler, not as red and whatnot. I'll try tinkering it with some more with my next paycheck now that I'm employed again (hence my radio silence as of late).

    Xaquin
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    my first batch of bacon I didnt use any nitrite/nitrates just salt and .. spices etc. Was a shit curing recipe though, salty devil bacon recipe..

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    For the corned beef brine, is pickling salt ok or does it have to be kosher salt?

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