Charcuterie 101 - The Silence you hear is the meat deliciousifying...

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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So this isnt really meat, but meat and cooking related.

    I've recently learned about black garlic, and the making of it. I havent tried making it yet, but what im curious is what exactly kinds of things that you would, or definately wouldnt want to use it in place of garlic of.

    I've seen people say its either adding a savory or a sweetness added to the flavor. which makes me wonder how well it would work in typical things that use garlic, like italian food, or cajin food (using the trinity + garlic the pope).

    Before i invest 2 weeks of time into the idea, I'd like to hear from people who have made it.

    In case this is confusing to anyone:

    Black garlic is regular garlic that has been cooked at 140 degrees (F) for 2 weeks. the sugars caramelize and turns it black, making the garlic soft and increasing the flavor by....a lot.

    (You can also do this by using a rice cooker set to 'keep warm' that whole time. Don't do this in your house unless you want the entire home and rice cooker to smell like garlic after a few days (sounds heavenly to me but just a warning).

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
    Xaquin
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    So this isnt really meat, but meat and cooking related.

    I've recently learned about black garlic, and the making of it. I havent tried making it yet, but what im curious is what exactly kinds of things that you would, or definately wouldnt want to use it in place of garlic of.

    I've seen people say its either adding a savory or a sweetness added to the flavor. which makes me wonder how well it would work in typical things that use garlic, like italian food, or cajin food (using the trinity + garlic the pope).

    Before i invest 2 weeks of time into the idea, I'd like to hear from people who have made it.

    In case this is confusing to anyone:

    Black garlic is regular garlic that has been cooked at 140 degrees (F) for 2 weeks. the sugars caramelize and turns it black, making the garlic soft and increasing the flavor by....a lot.

    (You can also do this by using a rice cooker set to 'keep warm' that whole time. Don't do this in your house unless you want the entire home and rice cooker to smell like garlic after a few days (sounds heavenly to me but just a warning).

    My brother did an attempt at black garlic with his Sous vide machine outside. . Even in a vacuum sealed bag you could smell it. Sadly despite doing it all right the garlic never got past a "brown" color. He ended up tossing the batch, not sure if he ended up trying it again.

    Its Garlic but more umami, if that makes sense. Once you taste it you will have plenty of ideas what to do with it.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I have read doing in sous vide is not a good way, being in a sealed container as it is. have seen people do it sous vide on youtube tho, so not sure why it didnt work other than didnt do it long enough.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    ooohhh I'm getting ready to make my shopping list for christmas sausages

    this is my second year

    the first year I made 4 types of sausage and gave 5 families .5 lbs of each type. this year I'll be doing the same but with different types (except the black trumpet mushroom sausage which was a massive hit).

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I have read doing in sous vide is not a good way, being in a sealed container as it is. have seen people do it sous vide on youtube tho, so not sure why it didnt work other than didnt do it long enough.

    I think it would depend on how far you went on the vacuum sealing, all the air removed (well all you can with one of those) is likely too much. Some articles are saying vac seal it to about 80% air removed?

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    A couple years ago I discovered beef bacon. We don't eat pork so it's a really lovely thing to have. My husband and I think it's superior in pretty much every way to pork bacon taste- and texture-wise (my kids basically don't know the difference), but compared to pork bacon it is monstrously expensive to buy at the store. I recently realized that it's just brisket cut the same way with some smoke, and not only is buying a brisket so much cheaper, even if we decide to go full-hechsher and buy kosher brisket which is more expensive it's still cheaper than buying the pre-cut and seasoned from the store.

    So in order to make this happen, and I want it to happen so bad, I need to figure out how to get a brisket sliced like that pre-cook and how to get that smoke flavor without a smoker, which I assume is how people smoke bacon. My husband says I can throw on some liquid smoke while it's on the pan but there has to be more to bacon than that. ...Right? This is not something I have ever thought of actually doing with any meat. I tried to do beef pepperoni an age ago and it didn't really come out something I would bother to try to do again. It's possible I need a better recipe, but for now the bacon.

    Help.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Most commercial bacons aren't actually smoked and use a combination of nitrates and liquid smoke-esque products like that. I'd snag a recipe for cured bacon without smoking and give it a shot with your cuts of brisket to see if it works.

    Smoking 100% improves the flavor but it's not like unsmoked cured bacon isn't amazing anyways.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Oh wait, it's the navel. I'm not sure I've even ever seen that at a store. :/

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_plate
    The beef navel is the ventral part of the plate, and it is commonly used to make pastrami.

    Just ask the butcher for the same cut used to make pastrami.

    steam_sig.png
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2019
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_plate
    The beef navel is the ventral part of the plate, and it is commonly used to make pastrami.

    Just ask the butcher for the same cut used to make pastrami.

    I thought pastrami used brisket. Are they the same thing? The thing I saw said that the navel is attached to the brisket, and that navel is hard to get. I'm not used to thinking about cuts of red meat beyond steak and corned beef (pre-brined), we just don't eat that much of it. I guess I'll be stopping at the meat department in our grocery store and hoping they have some. I'd rather not have to find a butcher just for the expense.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Thegreatcow
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    ceres wrote: »
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_plate
    The beef navel is the ventral part of the plate, and it is commonly used to make pastrami.

    Just ask the butcher for the same cut used to make pastrami.

    I thought pastrami used brisket. Are they the same thing? The thing I saw said that the navel is attached to the brisket, and that navel is hard to get. I'm not used to thinking about cuts of red meat beyond steak and corned beef (pre-brined), we just don't eat that much of it. I guess I'll be stopping at the meat department in our grocery store and hoping they have some. I'd rather not have to find a butcher just for the expense.

    You are correct, the Brisket is used to make pastrami, but the whole Brisket has two separate..."sub-cuts" I guess for lack of a better term. A Point Cut and the Flat Cut. Point Cuts generally have way more fat marbled inbetween them whereas the Flat Cuts have less or have it "capped" on the end of the cut. Given that you're trying to replicate bacon, I'd say make use of the flat cut as that seems to be more uniform and without so much fat marbled inbetween that would cause the meat to fall apart. The key thing here is that you'll want to ensure that you thinly slice the meat as the Brisket is still going to be super tough and stringy at this point if you're not going to source a Beef Navel. It can probably be done, it'll just come out a bit more chewy than Navel Bacon I think.

    I found this recipe on curing beef bacon that uses the naval cut, but it might be worth trying out to see if it can be replicated using the Plate Cut of the brisket. https://steakschool.com/slow/brissie-basters-beef-bacon/

    Thegreatcow on
    ceres
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I won't be doing any wet aging in our fridge and I don't have a smoker, but I can try out the cure. I need to see what I can find and do some price comparison over the weekend. I also need to figure out how to slice meat thinly with the knives we have. When I make corned beef I cut off a few small chunks for other people and then consume the rest of it in one cartoon-style mouthful.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    ceres wrote: »
    I won't be doing any wet aging in our fridge and I don't have a smoker, but I can try out the cure. I need to see what I can find and do some price comparison over the weekend. I also need to figure out how to slice meat thinly with the knives we have. When I make corned beef I cut off a few small chunks for other people and then consume the rest of it in one cartoon-style mouthful.

    So good news @ceres , I actually hit up DDs Meats here up in Washington and they were super helpful In getting this sorted out. Since you mentioned making Beef Bacon, the thought was bouncing around my head and I couldn’t resist giving it a try.

    I talked with the head butcher there who’s responsible for making their batches of Beef Bacon and he confirmed what you were told earlier. They don’t even bother with the navel, they just use the flat cut of Brisket with a decent amount of fat on the top and prepare it exactly the same way as regular bacon aside from adjusting the spices a bit.

    So my standard cure from earlier in the thread and a 6-7 day cure if you’re doing a dry rub, or 3-5 days via injecting a wet marinade instead if you have the option. This would assume a 3-5lb flat cut brisket.

    Since you mentioned not having a smoker, you can try using a 160-180 degree oven and gently cooking the bacon in there until the internal temp gets to 150. Id imagine you could simply add several generous dashes of liquid smoke into the cure and just do that in the end. I’m going to start prepping it tonight and try to report back in a weeks with the results.

    Thegreatcow on
    TNTroopercereschromdomDouglasDanger
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    And just to show I ain't messing around here's the work so far!

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    I decided to be extra generous with paprika, rosemary, garlic, and crushed pepper since it came out as a pretty thick brisket, definitely thicker than the pork bellies I normally work with.

    Since I didn't have my usual pre-made batch of Bacon cure on hand and didn't want to go through the process of making a massive batch of it only to figure out storage later, I worked off of this recipe here:

    https://jesspryles.com/recipe/beef-bacon/

    It mimics my existing cure pretty well, and I just added a generous dash of the spices I mentioned earlier. I guess we'll see in a week how it comes out! Thankfully my smoker is back up and running so I'll be able to get it tested out on this puppy.


    ceresbowenXaquin
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Oh my goodness that's good news, brisket is just so much easier to get.

    I'm not comfortable doing a wet age in our fridge for a fun variety of reasons, a cure is probably fine assuming I can find a method that seems both safe and not... messy. Cure then oven then fry?

    Beef bacon is the most amazing wonderful thing, too.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    V1m
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Oh my goodness that's good news, brisket is just so much easier to get.

    I'm not comfortable doing a wet age in our fridge for a fun variety of reasons, a cure is probably fine assuming I can find a method that seems both safe and not... messy. Cure then oven then fry?

    Beef bacon is the most amazing wonderful thing, too.

    Yup, I'd say start with a 1/4 cup of my all purpose cure earlier in the thread, some liquid smoke, and whatever additional spices you'd like to try, then generously coat a 3-5lb flat cut brisket that's been fully trimmed with that cure and place it inside a large ziploc bag (I'd recommend at least a 2 gallon one if you can find it. Cure it for about at least 5 days depending on the size (i'm going to try a 6 day cure for mine since it's so thick) then remove it from the bag and fully rinse off the cure that's on the brisket. let it dry for a bit (or overnight) or you can transfer it to a preheated oven at 225 and roast for about 90 minutes or until the internals get to 150 degrees.

    Let it cool and you should be able to slice it and fry it at that point

    ceresXaquin
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    The Beef Bacon is a resounding success! It's kind of a surreal moment when you finally get to try it. It's fattier, meatier than regular bacon, like there's this overwhelming...for lack of a better word..."meat" intensity about the flavor that's totally unlike regular pork bacon.

    After curing it for a week and letting it sit uncovered in the fridge, it smoked way faster than I expected. I smoked it over Mesquite and Pecan wood chips for about 2 hours and 15 minutes at 220degrees to reach a 150 degree internal temp and sliced it and fried it up right then and there!

    Some things I noticed:

    -If you slice it and eat it right out of the smoker, it's basically like a lighter, less peppery pastrami. That's very handy.
    -When frying it, make sure to fry it on low-medium heat only, it doesn't render as much fat as regular bacon and it browns quickly. That said after a few slices, you will get a decent amount of rendered beef fat in the pan left behind. The flavor reminds me of old Mcdonald's fries when they used to fry them in beef fat.
    -As the bacon cools, it gets super chewy. Definitely make sure to slice it as thin as possible too. I had to cut my brisket in half to be able to cut it across the grain and it came out amazing still.

    Overall a fantastic experience. I'll definitely be doing this again for special occasions. Made some amazing BLTs with heirloom tomatoes and butter lettuce this evening with my friends.

    u4rzibw00yf5.jpg
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    b1e9pqppd8rs.jpg


    TNTrooperchromdomDouglasDangerLaOsCauldceresVishNubDoodmannSyrdonbowentynic
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    That looks so good. That's just a brisket?

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    That looks so good. That's just a brisket?

    Yup yup! I took about a 5lb plate cut brisket that I cured using the cure i described earlier with extra garlic, paprika and rosemary in a ziploc bag. I then removed it from the cure, washed it off and let it sit uncovered in the fridge overnight. Then smoked it at 220 for about 2 hours 15 minutes. Came out pretty darn good if I say so myself. And got some nice rendered beef fat out of the process too!

    ceresSyrdon
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    @Thegreatcow You're doing the Lord's work, here. Thank you.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    TNTrooperXaquinThegreatcowCauld
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I checked this thread and BAM see a bunch of posts and delicious beef bacon. Not a bad start to the year.

    ceresXaquinThegreatcow
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I plan to design and build a smokehouse this year.

    allllll because I liked the pancetta recipe in this thread years ago and it set me down the road

    ceresTNTrooperV1m
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    And to MegaMan's point, I am likely going to use this information to make kosher bacon at some point, so not wrong, I guess!

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Thegreatcow
  • DissonantDissonant Registered User new member
    t6pvc8pd5dxw.png
    About half a batch of venison jerky.

    DouglasDangerThegreatcowchromdomdarkmayoXaquin
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    Its jerky day for me as well
    iwkpq1c243zw.jpeg



    darkmayo on
    XaquinbowenThegreatcowchromdomTNTrooper
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